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Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?

 
Desert FoxModerator
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User ID: 8786935
United States
09/26/2012 11:19 AM

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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
I would imagine if the newspaper runs it and/or any TV they will cave in. You still have a tree problem though. The trick is this....one gallon of antifreeze at the base of each tree and NOTHING WILL GROW THERE FOR YEARS...It's one of the most poisonous liquids on the planet!
 Quoting: ****SUPERFLY****


Yep, and do you eat lots of ice cream?

The human race is so lost, why hurt innocent trees because of the actions of man.

Just sell the property and move somewhere better where you can re-establish your garden. Hard work, yes, but it will keep you fit and busy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 127100


whatever
TOMABANEFOX
It's more humane this way ya know, or burn on totem pole. Choice is yours.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19302111
United States
09/26/2012 11:19 AM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
WOW, this reminds me of an older story out in Utah, maybe you have a convenient bush in their view you could trim into one lol...

[link to www.themiddlefinger.com]

[link to www.themiddlefinger.com]

I'd only do it after all the legal stuff is out of the way of course:)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 16151153
United States
09/26/2012 11:36 AM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
I would imagine if the newspaper runs it and/or any TV they will cave in. You still have a tree problem though. The trick is this....one gallon of antifreeze at the base of each tree and NOTHING WILL GROW THERE FOR YEARS...It's one of the most poisonous liquids on the planet!
 Quoting: ****SUPERFLY****


Yep, and do you eat lots of ice cream?

The human race is so lost, why hurt innocent trees because of the actions of man.

Just sell the property and move somewhere better where you can re-establish your garden. Hard work, yes, but it will keep you fit and busy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 127100


You must be the biggest pussy around.

Yeah, the OP should definitely just let her neighbors walk right over her and move away.

That is not just her house, you moran, it's her home and where she rightfully deserves to reside.

Fuck the commissioner.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24457958
United States
09/26/2012 11:40 AM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
*This story will be in a major newspaper tomorrow where I live.*

So, 3 years ago I built a pretty expansive garden on my property. I have grown just about everything. In that time, I have been able to loose over 85 pounds and get my life back on track, living a much healthier lifestyle. I was tired of being fat and unhealthy and decided that planting my own food was the best approach at changing my life. Through my garden, my mother was able to help nearly cure her diabetes after i convinced her to start eating food that i grew from my garden. Today she is off of all of her insulin and diabetic medication.

The problem? My neighbor just happens to be the commissioner in my town. My other neighbor, just happens to be his son. They have made it fairly public that they hate my garden. After i went door to door and had an overwhelming majority of people who live on my street sign a chicken petition, things started to take a curious turn. So curious that my commissioner neighbor and he son, purchased over 40 trees and planted them all in a line right along my property fence to block my garden. He then had the audacity to question my neighbors and ask them why they signed my chicken petition.

It's a long story, but to keep it short, the township sent me a letter claiming that my garden was restricting rainwater from reaching a sewer grate located on my property. We live at the bottom of a hill, so this could never physically be true. The township cites that this water restriction had been, "brought to their attention", by an unnamed source.

We sent certified letters to the township asking for proof that our garden blocks rainwater, and we also asked for proof of the complaint that was called into them. The township ignored our requests and failed to respond to any of our letters. After some time had passed, we received a letter from the township stating that if we did not remove or relocate our garden, they would begin fining us. They township code officer told us we had 7 days to respond to his letter. So, we called his office to talk to him, and what a coincidence, he just happened to go on vacation, so that we could not respond to him in the allotted time frame.

So, we ended up calling and talking to the township administrator. After a lengthy debate the township finally conceded and agreed to send an engineer to evaluate our property to prove what they were saying was true. Guess what? The engineer never came, the township never contacted us and on one fine day we received an envelope in the mail with 3 fines for nearly 700 each claiming that we were in violation for restricting/obstructing stormwater. The citations read that we had 10 days to respond and plead not guilty. Guess what? One of our citations were already 10 days old on the day that we received them. On the very next day, we received 4 more citations for again nearly 700 a piece claiming the same violations.

It still amazes me that this is the world we live in sometimes. People who hold positions of office just do whatever they want. They ignore laws and act as if they can get away with anything they want. Well, i decided to call every newspaper and television news station in my area. One newspaper is running the story tomorrow, and a second one just sent their photographer. I've had tv stations call me back and I am hoping it makes the evening news. At this point, we are going to have to get a lawyer. I know some of you could care less about an organic garden. But for me, this is about a whole lot more, such as property rights and personal freedom. And those two things are worth fighting for.
 Quoting: Kalivar


This type of thing is what makes it unreal people on here posting to grow your own food.Do people really believe they will just continue to be allowed to grow what they want once all this gets in place.
It will be restricted,fined,destroyed,sprayed,etc.There will be no growing as one wants.
Kalivar (OP)

User ID: 1465084
United States
09/26/2012 03:23 PM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
Here is a link to the story that was in the paper today. The writer tried to make it seem like it was mostly about chickens, which it wasnt. But I am still happy the article was put out.

[link to www.delcotimes.com]

The largest newspaper in Philadelphia is running the story in the Sunday paper this weekend. The story will be much different than the one today I am guessing. I will let you all know the details. I have read each and every post, so thanks for all of the advice, I will look into them all. Well maybe not the one about super gluing the windshield wipers
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1593102
United States
09/26/2012 05:24 PM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
Your mistake is trying to deal with this yourself.

When you got the first letter in the mail about this you should have contacted an attorney and let him handle it for you. The attorney would have been much cheaper than the battle that you are about to wage and will have to hire an attorney and worry about fines and worse.

Contact an attorney stat so that all of your efforts are legally documented.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23745362


If he contacted the attorney, it would have been far far worse. These lawyers will make a huge big mess out of nothing for no reason but their own egos, on both sides. I deal with city bureaucrats all the time, they will run you over with their own lawyers. They all have joint lawyers with other cities, so they end up with an army of lawyers and technicians/inspectors that will chew you out and spit you out of the system. What you really need to do is hire an actual professional engineer yourself, a testing lab, have them actually get a report with real numbers and then have them try to argue against the real numbers. They won't know what to do and they won't find someone to risk their career over stupid shit like this. After that, THEN, you can get a lawyer. With these city bureaucrats, you have to deal with them this way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 846701


This guy is exactly right. Odds are, a lawyer will just screw things up worse, that's what they get paid for..the bigger the brawl, the higher the fee. The more you can do yourself the better off you will be. Hire an engineer who understands the city ordinances, code. By the looks of the flatness of your and surrounding properties, runoff should not be an issue at all.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1593102
United States
09/26/2012 05:41 PM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
Your mistake is trying to deal with this yourself.

When you got the first letter in the mail about this you should have contacted an attorney and let him handle it for you. The attorney would have been much cheaper than the battle that you are about to wage and will have to hire an attorney and worry about fines and worse.

Contact an attorney stat so that all of your efforts are legally documented.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23745362


If he contacted the attorney, it would have been far far worse. These lawyers will make a huge big mess out of nothing for no reason but their own egos, on both sides. I deal with city bureaucrats all the time, they will run you over with their own lawyers. They all have joint lawyers with other cities, so they end up with an army of lawyers and technicians/inspectors that will chew you out and spit you out of the system. What you really need to do is hire an actual professional engineer yourself, a testing lab, have them actually get a report with real numbers and then have them try to argue against the real numbers. They won't know what to do and they won't find someone to risk their career over stupid shit like this. After that, THEN, you can get a lawyer. With these city bureaucrats, you have to deal with them this way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 846701


This guy is exactly right. Odds are, a lawyer will just screw things up worse, that's what they get paid for..the bigger the brawl, the higher the fee. The more you can do yourself the better off you will be. Hire an engineer who understands the city ordinances, code. By the looks of the flatness of your and surrounding properties, runoff should not be an issue at all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1593102


Having read the newpaper story, it's much more complex than you originally posted. The town's engineer has already evaluated your property. The idea of putting chickens in a suburban area is one that will set most homeowners off....
definately not as black and white as you initially presented. It looks like your beyond simply hiring an engineer and in fact do need a lawyer.....Lost a bit of sympathy from here when the chickens were mentioned..If any of my neighbors decided to be a chicken coup in, i'd hit the roof too.
ehecatl

User ID: 24463871
Mexico
09/26/2012 06:24 PM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
Take pictures of his license plate.
Rent the same car he has and print out a picture of his license plate so you can tape it over the one on the rental.
Now it looks like his car and license plate.
Drive through every red light camera you can find.
Go to shady areas where drug dealers and hookers hang out.....
Play his game. He wants to play dirty then play dirty.
Put a locking gas cap on his car and super glue his windshield wipers down.
Pay for strippers to show up to his house when his wife is home. Have them call his house when she is home....take pictures of different women in the rental car with his license plate.
He will be so busy with his wife busting his balls he won't have time to fuck with you.
Christ man, use your fucking brain and take the fight to him.
 Quoting: FatalW1shes


This is why I give Fatal Wishes karma from time to time.

Not that I am really saying that you should do any of this in particular, and maybe FW would not do some of it himself, depending, you got a lot of options when you are as open minded as FW after all.

...but Fatal Wishes is the kind of people who will come out as survivors when things go Mad Max.
ehecatl

User ID: 24463871
Mexico
09/26/2012 06:32 PM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
That's a beautiful (but very small) garden. I saw the photo.

One more thing, lots of good ideas here, but always have other people do the "dirty work".
SmuRidley

User ID: 591627
Canada
09/26/2012 06:32 PM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
government is done, we all know this.

it's only a matter of time before the commissioner and his cronies will be stood up to.
The term "derp" was invented by the creators of Southpark.
ceawaves

User ID: 23342686
United States
09/26/2012 06:38 PM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
You people don't need to be encouraging or giving him ideals on how to commit a crime.. That will go very bad for him with a quickness..

Last Edited by ceawaves on 09/26/2012 06:40 PM
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 58245724
United States
04/15/2015 07:08 AM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
Just shoot them, it's the only way.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 68912348
United States
04/15/2015 07:12 AM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
Fight them to the death.
 Quoting: Desert Fox


We'll all be fighting them to the death pretty soon, I think.
pool
Netizen Ribbonmind

User ID: 59961272
United States
04/15/2015 07:15 AM

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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
Just shoot them, it's the only way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58245724


It's from 2012.
"The earth is mother of us all, for she is just; but you, because you are unjust have pretended that she is your mother alone; and if you do not stop, I will not permit you to remain upon her."

[link to www.livius.org]
blubberbutt

User ID: 68689557
United States
04/15/2015 07:35 AM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
Five stars and pin request

resist
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 62971563
United States
04/15/2015 07:42 AM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
Meanwhile the townships dump tons and tons of salt on the streets and roads in the Winter contaminating water supplies...creeks etc. Hit em with that.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 68152368
United States
04/15/2015 07:43 AM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
You have to be very careful because social media and libel laws are a grey area and it sounds like your Commissioner knows how to play the game. You wouldn't want to say anything that could bite you in the ass.

People get carried away on twitter. If the media gets involved and it becomes a public issue, you might be tempted to post regular updates. Don't get into a mud slinging match.

Since he's a public figure, the best thing is to come up with a catch phrase that the media will latch onto...and he'll forever be attached to this garden scandal.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8988517


Since he is a public Figure, he probably can't sue you. I forget which law it is, however, you can get away with saying all sorts of things about a PUBLIC figure.
Had a guy try to sue me once because he said I caused him to lose his race, lol, what an ass.
INK
User ID: 68699729
United States
04/15/2015 07:47 AM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
Sorry for your troubles OP, but it seem to be pretty standard behavior from our local overlords.

There's a Dairy Queen in my little town that just happens to be next door to a local councilman. The owner of the DQ did all the right and legal stuff he needed to do, but his "neighbor" didn't like the noise and traffic generated by this guy's business. A few years ago council-a-hole did everything in his unlimited power to destroy the man's business.

The DQ owner did a smart thing and got it all on Youtube. DQ seems to be doing just fine.

BTW, council-schmucks house just happens to be adjacent to commercially approved land. The commercial properties were there way before his house was, but drunk with power he still tried to drive the guy out of business.

Welcome to small town corruption.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
04/15/2015 08:36 AM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
OP- without realizing it you took it to the next level with the petition to have chickens. And they fought back by using a technicality. The chickens put them over the edge.

Maybe just maybe if you offered to nix the chicken idea they would allo the garden.

But it is probably too late to make a deal.

They want you out.

OP consider selling and moving.

People like these can be bad for your health in many ways and the costs in fees and legal help could bankrupt you.

I am very happy you are eating healthy and have a garden. The local authorities do NOT want it to catch on. In their mind you are a bad example and showing self sufficiency is a slap in the face to government types.

Getting the news and TV is a good defense but this sounds like it will never end.

A note to the wise- my friend spent extra time finding a suburb that already allowed chickens just in case they decided to get them and told the realtor to find it for them. They fouls a neighborhood that is quite suburban with new houses and chickens are allowed.

You need to change the laws for EVERYONE and not stand out as always pushing the envelope.

I have a relative that would go CRAZY if someone wanted chickens next to him. He called the cops when someone parked too many cars in their driveway overnight.

You live in the WRONG neighborhood.

And most of these areas need to change the laws so people can live with fresh foods and eggs.
Good luck. They declared war on your garden when they planted the trees. They declared war on you when they levied the fines.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 38237016
United States
04/15/2015 08:36 AM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
OP- without realizing it you took it to the next level with the petition to have chickens. And they fought back by using a technicality. The chickens put them over the edge.

Maybe just maybe if you offered to nix the chicken idea they would allo the garden.

But it is probably too late to make a deal.

They want you out.

OP consider selling and moving.

People like these can be bad for your health in many ways and the costs in fees and legal help could bankrupt you.

I am very happy you are eating healthy and have a garden. The local authorities do NOT want it to catch on. In their mind you are a bad example and showing self sufficiency is a slap in the face to government types.

Getting the news and TV is a good defense but this sounds like it will never end.

A note to the wise- my friend spent extra time finding a suburb that already allowed chickens just in case they decided to get them and told the realtor to find it for them. They fouls a neighborhood that is quite suburban with new houses and chickens are allowed.

You need to change the laws for EVERYONE and not stand out as always pushing the envelope.

I have a relative that would go CRAZY if someone wanted chickens next to him. He called the cops when someone parked too many cars in their driveway overnight.

You live in the WRONG neighborhood.

And most of these areas need to change the laws so people can live with fresh foods and eggs.
Good luck. They declared war on your garden when they planted the trees. They declared war on you when they levied the fines.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 52229603
United States
04/15/2015 08:42 AM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
you have the unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.. a fundamental right cannot be excised..

"It has long been established that a State may not impose a penalty upon those who
93exercise a right guaranteed by the Constitution." Frost & Frost Trucking Co. v.
04Railroad Comm'n of California, 271 U.S. 583. "Constitutional rights would be of little
14value if they could be indirectly denied,' Smith v. Allwriqht, 321 US. 649, 644, or
24manipulated out of existence,' Gomillion v. Lightfoot, 364 U.S. 339, 345."
Judethz
Israel is Eternal

User ID: 47012985
United Kingdom
04/15/2015 08:50 AM

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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
bump
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32330096
United States
04/15/2015 09:04 AM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
How in the fuck does a garden block rain water?

Sounds like progressive libtard big.government bullshit.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 68787346
United States
04/15/2015 09:30 AM
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Re: Township fines me $5000, claiming my garden blocks rainwater from getting to my own sewer on my property. Guess who my neighbor is?
There is a federal law to prosecute officials who abuse their power.

But, I would just buy a larger plot of land away from the urban sprawl. That way you get more food and you don't have to deal with as many assholes.

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