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LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.

 
Don't Regulate Me
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10/01/2012 11:09 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
The left says de regulation from Republicans, let Wall St. do what they want and they made bad loans then bet against them. Which is partially true...banks did make loans and bet against them. Their solution, Regulate the shit out of everything they do. Have government constantly over their shoulder. Also more of what they call "consumer protection".
 Quoting:


Let the Wall St. do what they want... - but let the debtors although do what they want.

There is no neutral government possible, fail therefore all regulations.

"Have government constantly over THEIR shoulder." - Are you in such a panic to oversee what your are preaching?

The middle-class, the middle-class, God is over the moon and comes hardly to sleep.

If people were allowed only to pay what they can and think it is worth - a number of unsolved problems suddenly got a refreshing solution.
Anonymous Coward
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10/01/2012 11:22 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
There is a shrinking middle class because middle managers were fired and now Human Resources with their sophisticated software is doing the job for just a little more money that temporary workers get.

Employers outsource to slave labor.

The are multinational corporations that have monopolized small businesses and have no loyalty to U.S. families.

An economy is only as strong as its middle class. The U.S. elite such as Bain have betrayed the U.S.
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 01:06 AM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
Man so many dead on posts here from Heisenburg and others. I dont have the solution either...but I do recognize that the dreams from my grand father and father are over. You can no longer leave high school, and enter a trade or company where you can earn a decent wage, move up the ladder, ect... Not saying this is 100% true, sure theres people who still do it, but as a percentage of the population compared to previous generations is far more true than not.

Now the big push is further debt enslavement with college, and enriching that social group (two pronged attack. Get your money, and indoctrinate you further). Looking at the job boards...companies are requiring Bachelors degrees on entry level jobs paying what I made coming out of high school in the 80s....only with a big student loan debt. You have loads of experience? HR doesnt care. Shit, your application wont make it past their filters unless you have some college pedigree somewhere in your resume.

As for we blue collar construction workers? We are being squeezed out and having our wages lowered by skilled and unskilled illegal and legal immigrant labor. Before I was laid off...it wasnt uncommon to work on a job site and hear nothing but Spanish all day. I know that sounds racist...and I am sure someone here will take me to task for that...but I hold the GOP, corporations, and Chamber of Commerce to blame as much as the Squishy Democrats on that one. One side wants cheap labor...the other, more slave voters.

Just my 2¢
Resister

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10/02/2012 11:10 AM

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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
The economic problem is the transfer of wealth from the people to the state. All people. Same goes for freedom. The state is confiscating people's freedom and giving them meaningless tokens of alleged security and lying promises of their future prosperity.

The middle class? Well, they are in the middle. They have the ability to just keep their heads above the water and pretend that they have some measure of independence and freedom. The poor don't care about independence or freedom so long as they are playcated by the government with other people's money, and the rich can buy it.
"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787
*Heisenberg* (OP)

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10/02/2012 11:27 AM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
The "Middle Class" has been the traditional enemy of the Communist insurgency, because it attempts to use Capitalism to its fullest extent, and it succeeds.

Obama and the Democrat Nazi Party know this, and are attempting to destroy the "Middle Class" so that it can't fight their Communist Utopian plan, just like every other Communist insurgency in history.
 Quoting: The Governor


That has been the tactic. Both in the past and present.

Good call.
*Heisenberg* (OP)

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10/02/2012 11:28 AM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
Man so many dead on posts here from Heisenburg and others. I dont have the solution either...but I do recognize that the dreams from my grand father and father are over. You can no longer leave high school, and enter a trade or company where you can earn a decent wage, move up the ladder, ect... Not saying this is 100% true, sure theres people who still do it, but as a percentage of the population compared to previous generations is far more true than not.

Now the big push is further debt enslavement with college, and enriching that social group (two pronged attack. Get your money, and indoctrinate you further). Looking at the job boards...companies are requiring Bachelors degrees on entry level jobs paying what I made coming out of high school in the 80s....only with a big student loan debt. You have loads of experience? HR doesnt care. Shit, your application wont make it past their filters unless you have some college pedigree somewhere in your resume.

As for we blue collar construction workers? We are being squeezed out and having our wages lowered by skilled and unskilled illegal and legal immigrant labor. Before I was laid off...it wasnt uncommon to work on a job site and hear nothing but Spanish all day. I know that sounds racist...and I am sure someone here will take me to task for that...but I hold the GOP, corporations, and Chamber of Commerce to blame as much as the Squishy Democrats on that one. One side wants cheap labor...the other, more slave voters.
Just my 2¢
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18742900


Well stated.

Good post. Thanks!

cheers
*Heisenberg* (OP)

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10/02/2012 11:29 AM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
The economic problem is the transfer of wealth from the people to the state. All people. Same goes for freedom. The state is confiscating people's freedom and giving them meaningless tokens of alleged security and lying promises of their future prosperity.

The middle class? Well, they are in the middle. They have the ability to just keep their heads above the water and pretend that they have some measure of independence and freedom. The poor don't care about independence or freedom so long as they are playcated by the government with other people's money, and the rich can buy it.
 Quoting: Resister


Very well said as usual bud.

Once the middle class is gone, no one will care about, or want capitalism. Or liberty for that matter.

Last Edited by *Evan on 10/02/2012 11:29 AM
The Governor

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10/02/2012 01:32 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
The economic problem is the transfer of wealth from the people to the state. All people. Same goes for freedom. The state is confiscating people's freedom and giving them meaningless tokens of alleged security and lying promises of their future prosperity.

The middle class? Well, they are in the middle. They have the ability to just keep their heads above the water and pretend that they have some measure of independence and freedom. The poor don't care about independence or freedom so long as they are playcated by the government with other people's money, and the rich can buy it.
 Quoting: Resister


Very well said as usual bud.

Once the middle class is gone, no one will care about, or want capitalism. Or liberty for that matter.
 Quoting: *Heisenberg*


For both of you:

clappa
Welcome to Woodbury.

I think being a Democrat should be a felony.

[link to www.policymic.com]
*Heisenberg* (OP)

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10/02/2012 01:34 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
The economic problem is the transfer of wealth from the people to the state. All people. Same goes for freedom. The state is confiscating people's freedom and giving them meaningless tokens of alleged security and lying promises of their future prosperity.

The middle class? Well, they are in the middle. They have the ability to just keep their heads above the water and pretend that they have some measure of independence and freedom. The poor don't care about independence or freedom so long as they are playcated by the government with other people's money, and the rich can buy it.
 Quoting: Resister


Very well said as usual bud.

Once the middle class is gone, no one will care about, or want capitalism. Or liberty for that matter.
 Quoting: *Heisenberg*


For both of you:

clappa
 Quoting: The Governor


cheers
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 01:58 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
Really appreciate this thread and the thoughtful replies. Good to see it didnt descend into a mess or meaningless back and forths.

Going to keep checking back.

bump
*Heisenberg* (OP)

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10/02/2012 02:09 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
Really appreciate this thread and the thoughtful replies. Good to see it didnt descend into a mess or meaningless back and forths.

Going to keep checking back.

bump
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18742900


Thanks....I hope more people share their thoughts.
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 03:34 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
H...I dont know what to believe anymore. I grew up a flag waving American. Served my country for 25 years. Strongly conservative. But all of my past views are now under review. I have awakened somewhat, and at least tried to figure out what is going on.

To the best of my recollection...America is being undermined by a combination of efforts. We are being weakened economically, militarily, and societal. I see the whole thing circling the drain. Blue collar construction jobs and manufacturing? Gone or being over taken by illegal and legal immigrants. Buying power? Inflation on everything and the cost of energy shooting up. Education? A bunch of kids who can barely compute and read at grade level, but can spout all forms of Progressive taking points. Americans? Nope, we are systematically being tribalized, hyphenated, labeled, and segregated. This point works especially well for the politicians who pander and capitalize on it. Free? HA! Certain peoples rights seem to have more weight than others depending on their politically correct status. And the Fed, State, and local governments are consolidating power and increasing the police state.

Whats killing the American middle class? In one way, we did it to ourselves. We chased materialistic things on easy credit. We demand the lowest possible price for an item or service, but then dont want to pay a livable wage here stateside and cry afoul when outsourcing takes place (You cant have both). We demand more and more programs, services, and entitlements...and then cry foul when taxes or other revenue schemes are launched. Its just crazy.

As I read history, we are following the path of all great civilizations and societies...and while it may take a while longer, are on the glidepath to collapse. We IMHO are walking in the steps of Rome. So sit back and enjoy the bread and circuses.
*Heisenberg* (OP)

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10/02/2012 05:37 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
H...I dont know what to believe anymore. I grew up a flag waving American. Served my country for 25 years. Strongly conservative. But all of my past views are now under review. I have awakened somewhat, and at least tried to figure out what is going on.

To the best of my recollection...America is being undermined by a combination of efforts. We are being weakened economically, militarily, and societal. I see the whole thing circling the drain. Blue collar construction jobs and manufacturing? Gone or being over taken by illegal and legal immigrants. Buying power? Inflation on everything and the cost of energy shooting up. Education? A bunch of kids who can barely compute and read at grade level, but can spout all forms of Progressive taking points. Americans? Nope, we are systematically being tribalized, hyphenated, labeled, and segregated. This point works especially well for the politicians who pander and capitalize on it. Free? HA! Certain peoples rights seem to have more weight than others depending on their politically correct status. And the Fed, State, and local governments are consolidating power and increasing the police state.

Whats killing the American middle class? In one way, we did it to ourselves. We chased materialistic things on easy credit. We demand the lowest possible price for an item or service, but then dont want to pay a livable wage here stateside and cry afoul when outsourcing takes place (You cant have both). We demand more and more programs, services, and entitlements...and then cry foul when taxes or other revenue schemes are launched. Its just crazy.

As I read history, we are following the path of all great civilizations and societies...and while it may take a while longer, are on the glidepath to collapse. We IMHO are walking in the steps of Rome. So sit back and enjoy the bread and circuses.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18742900


The only thing different between us and Rome......16 trillion dollar debt...

As for the rest of your post, very nice. Covered a lot of bases and covered them well.

cheers
Sleeping Giant
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10/02/2012 06:02 PM

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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
bump
The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. Romans 13:11

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matthew 10:22

Wake up, oh sleeper, and rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you
*Heisenberg* (OP)

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10/02/2012 06:03 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
bump
 Quoting: Sleeping Giant


Don't bump my threads man....you don't know me like that.
Sleeping Giant
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10/02/2012 06:11 PM

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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
bump
 Quoting: Sleeping Giant


Don't bump my threads man....you don't know me like that.
 Quoting: *Heisenberg*


bumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbump
The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. Romans 13:11

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matthew 10:22

Wake up, oh sleeper, and rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you
*Heisenberg* (OP)

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10/02/2012 06:20 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
bump
 Quoting: Sleeping Giant


Don't bump my threads man....you don't know me like that.
 Quoting: *Heisenberg*


bumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbump
 Quoting: Sleeping Giant


1rof1
Copernica

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10/03/2012 12:11 AM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
Man so many dead on posts here from Heisenburg and others. I dont have the solution either...but I do recognize that the dreams from my grand father and father are over. You can no longer leave high school, and enter a trade or company where you can earn a decent wage, move up the ladder, ect... Not saying this is 100% true, sure theres people who still do it, but as a percentage of the population compared to previous generations is far more true than not.

Now the big push is further debt enslavement with college, and enriching that social group (two pronged attack. Get your money, and indoctrinate you further). Looking at the job boards...companies are requiring Bachelors degrees on entry level jobs paying what I made coming out of high school in the 80s....only with a big student loan debt. You have loads of experience? HR doesnt care. Shit, your application wont make it past their filters unless you have some college pedigree somewhere in your resume.

As for we blue collar construction workers? We are being squeezed out and having our wages lowered by skilled and unskilled illegal and legal immigrant labor. Before I was laid off...it wasnt uncommon to work on a job site and hear nothing but Spanish all day. I know that sounds racist...and I am sure someone here will take me to task for that...but I hold the GOP, corporations, and Chamber of Commerce to blame as much as the Squishy Democrats on that one. One side wants cheap labor...the other, more slave voters.

Just my 2¢
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18742900


The requiring college degrees is what I'm running up against in my job hunting. I have nearly 30 years of office experience and it counts less than a 4 yr unrelated college degree of a 22 yr old who's never worked.

When I started working - there weren't even college programs for secretaries (Admin Asst wasn't heard of yet!). You could go to a "business college" or "secretarial school" - but that was it. My high school had an extensive secretarial program that was the equivalent of the "colleges" - there was no need for me to spend the money on "higher" education. I've learned computers and programs as they were invented.

To be told at my age that I'm unworthy of being considered for a position because I didn't go to college, is not only stupid and short sighted, it's demeaning, demoralizing and bordering on age discrimination.

Maybe not even bordering? It IS age discrimination. Older employees cost more. We expect to be paid at the highest edge of the pay scale, we've EARNED that with years of hard work. Plus, insurance companies like to charge more for us - I'm waiting to see if Obamacare actually takes this part out of the equation. Then it will be companies realizing that you get what you pay for, and decades of experience is worth more than an expensive piece of paper.

To tie my little rant back to the topic - this new version of age discrimination is also part of the dismantling of the middle class. Forcing the 40+ year old work force back to wages of 10 - 15 years ago, means we have to reduce our standard of living. In my field, high paid used to put me in lower middle class. At today's wages plus increased cost of living - I'll be moved to the working poor....and even qualify for food stamps. (and that's IF I can actually get a job. *sigh*)
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2012 10:37 AM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
Man so many dead on posts here from Heisenburg and others. I dont have the solution either...but I do recognize that the dreams from my grand father and father are over. You can no longer leave high school, and enter a trade or company where you can earn a decent wage, move up the ladder, ect... Not saying this is 100% true, sure theres people who still do it, but as a percentage of the population compared to previous generations is far more true than not.

Now the big push is further debt enslavement with college, and enriching that social group (two pronged attack. Get your money, and indoctrinate you further). Looking at the job boards...companies are requiring Bachelors degrees on entry level jobs paying what I made coming out of high school in the 80s....only with a big student loan debt. You have loads of experience? HR doesnt care. Shit, your application wont make it past their filters unless you have some college pedigree somewhere in your resume.

As for we blue collar construction workers? We are being squeezed out and having our wages lowered by skilled and unskilled illegal and legal immigrant labor. Before I was laid off...it wasnt uncommon to work on a job site and hear nothing but Spanish all day. I know that sounds racist...and I am sure someone here will take me to task for that...but I hold the GOP, corporations, and Chamber of Commerce to blame as much as the Squishy Democrats on that one. One side wants cheap labor...the other, more slave voters.

Just my 2¢
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18742900


The requiring college degrees is what I'm running up against in my job hunting. I have nearly 30 years of office experience and it counts less than a 4 yr unrelated college degree of a 22 yr old who's never worked.

When I started working - there weren't even college programs for secretaries (Admin Asst wasn't heard of yet!). You could go to a "business college" or "secretarial school" - but that was it. My high school had an extensive secretarial program that was the equivalent of the "colleges" - there was no need for me to spend the money on "higher" education. I've learned computers and programs as they were invented.

To be told at my age that I'm unworthy of being considered for a position because I didn't go to college, is not only stupid and short sighted, it's demeaning, demoralizing and bordering on age discrimination.

Maybe not even bordering? It IS age discrimination. Older employees cost more. We expect to be paid at the highest edge of the pay scale, we've EARNED that with years of hard work. Plus, insurance companies like to charge more for us - I'm waiting to see if Obamacare actually takes this part out of the equation. Then it will be companies realizing that you get what you pay for, and decades of experience is worth more than an expensive piece of paper.

To tie my little rant back to the topic - this new version of age discrimination is also part of the dismantling of the middle class. Forcing the 40+ year old work force back to wages of 10 - 15 years ago, means we have to reduce our standard of living. In my field, high paid used to put me in lower middle class. At today's wages plus increased cost of living - I'll be moved to the working poor....and even qualify for food stamps. (and that's IF I can actually get a job. *sigh*)
 Quoting: Copernica


Many folks are running into the same problem in the job hunt. Fewer available jobs = the insane quest to supposedly hire the "best people". I agree with you that it is extremely short sighted for a company or HR to dismiss our years of experience and loyalty for some unproven and known college graduate...but thats what is happening.

You want to hear something really crazy? I am also a veteran...and even that "edge" isnt enough to get my foot in the door. Even for Fed or State jobs that are now also requiring a college degree. Makes me shake my head when I go to the VA or other government facility and have to deal with someone you have to question if they even made it out of high school...but now have the college requirement for the same job.

hf
Copernica

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10/04/2012 01:08 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
Many folks are running into the same problem in the job hunt. Fewer available jobs = the insane quest to supposedly hire the "best people". I agree with you that it is extremely short sighted for a company or HR to dismiss our years of experience and loyalty for some unproven and known college graduate...but thats what is happening.

You want to hear something really crazy? I am also a veteran...and even that "edge" isnt enough to get my foot in the door. Even for Fed or State jobs that are now also requiring a college degree. Makes me shake my head when I go to the VA or other government facility and have to deal with someone you have to question if they even made it out of high school...but now have the college requirement for the same job.

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18742900


It's insane isn't it? *sigh*

I wish you all the best in finding something soon!!
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 01:19 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
My feelings: the uber rich do not care anymore about anyone but themselves and their immediate family.

It use to be Mr. Big would run his company. He was a wealthy man with enough for him and his family to have the best of everything, yet... he still cared about his employees and their families too, striving to make sure they were making a decent living and rewarding them for company loyalty.

These days, Mr. Big has turned into a greedy mofo. He no longer cares about the lives of his employees. If he can get a chinese or indian person to work for 50 cents a day, he'll move his whole operation overseas. He has no thoughts that this is as close to slavery as human misery as one could get. Now his family is not only prospering, they have more than anyone would ever need in fifty lifetimes. Watching the numbers in his back accounts go up has become an obsession, a disease. He has to have more and more and more.

The entrepreneur has been replaced by a psychopath.
*Heisenberg* (OP)

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10/04/2012 01:22 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
My feelings: the uber rich do not care anymore about anyone but themselves and their immediate family.

It use to be Mr. Big would run his company. He was a wealthy man with enough for him and his family to have the best of everything, yet... he still cared about his employees and their families too, striving to make sure they were making a decent living and rewarding them for company loyalty.

These days, Mr. Big has turned into a greedy mofo. He no longer cares about the lives of his employees. If he can get a chinese or indian person to work for 50 cents a day, he'll move his whole operation overseas. He has no thoughts that this is as close to slavery as human misery as one could get. Now his family is not only prospering, they have more than anyone would ever need in fifty lifetimes. Watching the numbers in his back accounts go up has become an obsession, a disease. He has to have more and more and more.

The entrepreneur has been replaced by a psychopath.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 202278


I don't necessarily agree with that.....but maybe it looks that way to you because the government has made conditions for businesses in this country horrible?

A business is ALWAYS going to take the path of least resistance. It's just how a business works. The government needs to get out of the way and quit blocking the path for business to expand here in the U.S
Earth Daughter

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10/04/2012 01:30 PM

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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
My feelings: the uber rich do not care anymore about anyone but themselves and their immediate family.

It use to be Mr. Big would run his company. He was a wealthy man with enough for him and his family to have the best of everything, yet... he still cared about his employees and their families too, striving to make sure they were making a decent living and rewarding them for company loyalty.

These days, Mr. Big has turned into a greedy mofo. He no longer cares about the lives of his employees. If he can get a chinese or indian person to work for 50 cents a day, he'll move his whole operation overseas. He has no thoughts that this is as close to slavery as human misery as one could get. Now his family is not only prospering, they have more than anyone would ever need in fifty lifetimes. Watching the numbers in his back accounts go up has become an obsession, a disease. He has to have more and more and more.

The entrepreneur has been replaced by a psychopath.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 202278


I don't necessarily agree with that.....but maybe it looks that way to you because the government has made conditions for businesses in this country horrible?

A business is ALWAYS going to take the path of least resistance. It's just how a business works. The government needs to get out of the way and quit blocking the path for business to expand here in the U.S
 Quoting: *Heisenberg*


But that's another problem. There's very little opportunity for someone to build a business from the ground up like there use to be.

These Bilderbergers have already decided which megacorps will flourish. The little start up has no chance against them. This has been in the works for so long, like an insideous, cancerous cell that has grown to such proportions that it can no longer be stopped.

This is not the world we use to know.
"Arrows of hate have been shot at me too, but they never hit me, because somehow they belonged to another world, with which I have no connection whatsoever." - Albert Einstein
*Heisenberg* (OP)

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10/04/2012 01:32 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
My feelings: the uber rich do not care anymore about anyone but themselves and their immediate family.

It use to be Mr. Big would run his company. He was a wealthy man with enough for him and his family to have the best of everything, yet... he still cared about his employees and their families too, striving to make sure they were making a decent living and rewarding them for company loyalty.

These days, Mr. Big has turned into a greedy mofo. He no longer cares about the lives of his employees. If he can get a chinese or indian person to work for 50 cents a day, he'll move his whole operation overseas. He has no thoughts that this is as close to slavery as human misery as one could get. Now his family is not only prospering, they have more than anyone would ever need in fifty lifetimes. Watching the numbers in his back accounts go up has become an obsession, a disease. He has to have more and more and more.

The entrepreneur has been replaced by a psychopath.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 202278


I don't necessarily agree with that.....but maybe it looks that way to you because the government has made conditions for businesses in this country horrible?

A business is ALWAYS going to take the path of least resistance. It's just how a business works. The government needs to get out of the way and quit blocking the path for business to expand here in the U.S
 Quoting: *Heisenberg*


But that's another problem. There's very little opportunity for someone to build a business from the ground up like there use to be.

These Bilderbergers have already decided which megacorps will flourish. The little start up has no chance against them.
This has been in the works for so long, like an insideous, cancerous cell that has grown to such proportions that it can no longer be stopped.

This is not the world we use to know.
 Quoting: Earth Daughter


But why is that? A person used to be able to start a business in a day.

Now it takes months and months. Too much red tape.

Like I said, the government needs to stop hindering growth and opportunity, and start promoting it.
Earth Daughter

User ID: 202278
United States
10/04/2012 01:32 PM

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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
Sorry for not being more optomistic. I know you were looking for solutions.

The only thing I see that will work will be a whole new paradigm shift.

The fleas need to be shook off and things need to start anew.
"Arrows of hate have been shot at me too, but they never hit me, because somehow they belonged to another world, with which I have no connection whatsoever." - Albert Einstein
*Heisenberg* (OP)

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10/04/2012 01:38 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
Sorry for not being more optomistic. I know you were looking for solutions.

The only thing I see that will work will be a whole new paradigm shift.

The fleas need to be shook off and things need to start anew.
 Quoting: Earth Daughter


Never apologize for voicing your opinon!

It's appreciated in my threads. whether I agree with it or not.
MultiStrada
User ID: 23217961
United States
10/04/2012 01:41 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
There are a million and one problems in this country right now. In my opinion, the biggest issue is the shrinking middle class. The massive transfer of wealth from the middle to the top.

I think this is something both Democrats and Republicans can agree on. The reason there is such division is because each side has their own ideas of why it is happening, and what should be done to stop it from happening.

The left says de regulation from Republicans, let Wall St. do what they want and they made bad loans then bet against them. Which is partially true...banks did make loans and bet against them. Their solution, Regulate the shit out of everything they do. Have government constantly over their shoulder. Also more of what they call "consumer protection".


The Right generally likes to put a lot of blame on Fannie and Freddie and Barney Frank. While also acknowledging that banks made these risky loans. Which is partially true, right before the collapse Barney Frank was telling everyone how safe and secure Frannie and Freddie were. Their solution, De regulate Wall St. again. Let the markets work, and if they make bad loans and they get into trouble, let them fail. That the markets will correct themselves.

Either way, when this collapse happened, it sucked trillions from our economy. Who took the hardest hit? The middle class. There was a large transfer of wealth from the middle class to the uber rich.

The banks got a taxpayer bailout, and they also got the houses that people defaulted on.

So, what can we do to get the middle class back? Again there are different solutions on each side of the political spectrum.

In my opinion, the collapse, and disappearance of the middle class are both directly linked to The Federal Reserve. When you artificially keep interest rates low, you create bubbles. Like the housing bubble we saw pop in 08'.

When your currency is devalued, that is a tax on the people. When your money no longer purchases what it used to, that is a tax on the people. When 50 yrs ago, a man could choose to not go to college, and go straight to work, work one job and still provide for his family, then 50 yrs later that same job doesn't even pay the rent......that's not a democrat or republican problem...that's a currency problem.

To me, if we just ended The Fed, had our own congressional issued currency.....that would solve 80% of our problems instantly.

There are still other factors, like China keeping the value of their currency down...certain "trade agreements" that do us no good, only harm. Stagnant wages while inflation is not stagnant...

But all these B.S side issues like, should we raise taxes on the rich? Should we cut certain departments of the Government? Who should pay income tax and who shouldn't? Should we have a fair tax? These are all side issues that derive directly from the problems caused by the federal reserve. Which is just my opinion.

What is your opinion on the shrinking middle class? The transfer of wealth? What can be done to bring back our middle class?
 Quoting: *Heisenberg*


Never forget what the last official act of any government is.
To loot the treasuryyoda
*Heisenberg* (OP)

User ID: 21948600
United States
10/04/2012 01:45 PM
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Re: LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.
There are a million and one problems in this country right now. In my opinion, the biggest issue is the shrinking middle class. The massive transfer of wealth from the middle to the top.

I think this is something both Democrats and Republicans can agree on. The reason there is such division is because each side has their own ideas of why it is happening, and what should be done to stop it from happening.

The left says de regulation from Republicans, let Wall St. do what they want and they made bad loans then bet against them. Which is partially true...banks did make loans and bet against them. Their solution, Regulate the shit out of everything they do. Have government constantly over their shoulder. Also more of what they call "consumer protection".


The Right generally likes to put a lot of blame on Fannie and Freddie and Barney Frank. While also acknowledging that banks made these risky loans. Which is partially true, right before the collapse Barney Frank was telling everyone how safe and secure Frannie and Freddie were. Their solution, De regulate Wall St. again. Let the markets work, and if they make bad loans and they get into trouble, let them fail. That the markets will correct themselves.

Either way, when this collapse happened, it sucked trillions from our economy. Who took the hardest hit? The middle class. There was a large transfer of wealth from the middle class to the uber rich.

The banks got a taxpayer bailout, and they also got the houses that people defaulted on.

So, what can we do to get the middle class back? Again there are different solutions on each side of the political spectrum.

In my opinion, the collapse, and disappearance of the middle class are both directly linked to The Federal Reserve. When you artificially keep interest rates low, you create bubbles. Like the housing bubble we saw pop in 08'.

When your currency is devalued, that is a tax on the people. When your money no longer purchases what it used to, that is a tax on the people. When 50 yrs ago, a man could choose to not go to college, and go straight to work, work one job and still provide for his family, then 50 yrs later that same job doesn't even pay the rent......that's not a democrat or republican problem...that's a currency problem.

To me, if we just ended The Fed, had our own congressional issued currency.....that would solve 80% of our problems instantly.

There are still other factors, like China keeping the value of their currency down...certain "trade agreements" that do us no good, only harm. Stagnant wages while inflation is not stagnant...

But all these B.S side issues like, should we raise taxes on the rich? Should we cut certain departments of the Government? Who should pay income tax and who shouldn't? Should we have a fair tax? These are all side issues that derive directly from the problems caused by the federal reserve. Which is just my opinion.

What is your opinion on the shrinking middle class? The transfer of wealth? What can be done to bring back our middle class?
 Quoting: *Heisenberg*


Never forget what the last official act of any government is.
To loot the treasuryyoda
 Quoting: MultiStrada 23217961


I agree. Especially if it is a scared government. They will always do what it can to preserve itself. ALWAYS.

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