| Users Online Now: 2,206 (Who's On?) | Visitors Today: 963,603 | |
| Pageviews Today: 1,326,699 | Threads Today: 373 | Posts Today: 6,233 |
| 11:06 AM | ||
| Users Online Now: 2,206 (Who's On?) | Visitors Today: 963,603 | |
| Pageviews Today: 1,326,699 | Threads Today: 373 | Posts Today: 6,233 |
| 11:06 AM | ||
LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS. | |
smokahontas  User ID: 925590  Canada10/01/2012 04:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The average american has no idea what is in the constitution, that is why its so easy to toss it out. "I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire "Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley |
| Bluebird User ID: 730536  United States10/01/2012 04:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Oh, wow! A rational thread! 5 *****'s a a pin vote! One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one. Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway. Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy |
| *Heisenberg* (OP) User ID: 21948600 United States10/01/2012 04:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The real problem is monetary not economic. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1126441 Our economy (production of goods and services) is doing fine, actually better than ever. Productivity has soared due to technology. Our problem is monetary. As jobs are eliminated, either through outsourcing (to low-wage countries) or obsoletion (through new tech), people simply can't make a living. Period. And don't forget that it also is concentrating wealth into the hands of the 1%'s. What to do about it? We need to 'renormalize' our monetary base (which is just the number of claim checks against our collective resources). How to best accomplish this? While there maybe several ways that would work equally well, I particularly like 'small, incremental changes'. We need to enact and implement a "general welfare distribution". Where ALL citizens (above a certain age, in good legal standing) receive the same amount. This means Warren Buffet would receive a check for the same amount as those living in shelters. This would effectively 're-capitalize' consumers and ignite all businesses - AND - everyone would be treated exactly the same way. It may initially be done intermittently, but over time it could become regular - just like ordinary well fare. People will obviously ask: "exactly where is _all this money_ going to come from"? The same exact place "all the money" that's been created by the Fed for QE1 to QEn has - the fed's 'balance sheet' - i.e. the biggest crock of shit in the entire world. So, let's just admit it and get on with actually making things better. (If you still believe the Fed's balance sheet is anything other than a comical work of fiction, well...) I almost want to say the real heart of the matter is human behavior and that we can't seem to evolve into ethical beings. Everything else is symptomatic. lol, pretty cynical. But I catch your drift. |
| *Heisenberg* (OP) User ID: 21948600 United States10/01/2012 04:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| *Heisenberg* (OP) User ID: 21948600 United States10/01/2012 04:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| smokahontas User ID: 925590 Canada10/01/2012 04:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanks brother, I am not a Winger at all, I do not buy into any politics!  Last Edited by smokahontas on 10/01/2012 04:57 PM "I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire "Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley |
| *Heisenberg* (OP) User ID: 21948600 United States10/01/2012 04:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1126441 United States10/01/2012 05:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I don't agree that 'monetary normalization' (in the specific way defined above) is either. The amount of the distribution would be regulated by the Fed, or Congress, to maximize the value of the dollar. Capitalism has produced many great things for this country and the world. I don't want to see that lost. And that would be major disruption to our way of life. Remember: 'small & gradual'. As we all know, somewhere north of 50% of Americans already receive government payments. I'm simply arguing to make that number 100% and let those who want to work, and earn more, do so. Nothing would need change in anybody's life. |
| smokahontas User ID: 925590 Canada10/01/2012 05:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We would have to invent 180,000 jobs to keep up with population A MONTH! Our economy is 79% service industry which Produce nothing, only 8% of GDP comes from manufacturing, We have closed 56,000 factories in the U.S. since 2001. As of 2/9/2012 70% of the federal budget goes to individual assistance programs. Quoting: smokahontas The goods and services represented by the total number of outstanding U.S. dollars is far disproportionate to what exists in the real world. WE do not make enough actual goods that foriegners with reserves can purchase. We will not recover, We do not have a manufaturing base... "When the subject citizens are rendered unable to control their financial affairs, they of course become totally enslaved, a source of cheap labor." Harvard Economic Research Project 1979 Its all been by design "I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire "Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 907170 United States10/01/2012 05:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I have felt that we are being patterned like Britain. Just do not think it will work in America. Our whole way of life has been that anyone can move up through hard work and education. Now if you take away the middle class there is no real hope of that. Pearl Buck had it right with "When the rich become to rich and the poor become to poor there will ALWAYS be a revolution " ! |
| smokahontas User ID: 925590 Canada10/01/2012 05:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire "Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 23011194 United States10/01/2012 05:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| smokahontas User ID: 925590 Canada10/01/2012 05:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | you bring back those off shored jobs to where I live in NE Ohio, everyone of those jobs will be snatched up in a heartbeat. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23011194 I agree by people over 40, and only if the pay was close to what factory workers made before they shut it down. The Unions had a hand in the destruction of american manufacturing, and anyone who has ever had the luxury of working in a Factory in the Rust Belt (I used to live in Flint Mi.) is spoiled to the 30 bucks an hour and overtime. Last Edited by smokahontas on 10/01/2012 05:10 PM "I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire "Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley |
| *Heisenberg* (OP) User ID: 21948600 United States10/01/2012 05:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I don't agree that 'monetary normalization' (in the specific way defined above) is either. The amount of the distribution would be regulated by the Fed, or Congress, to maximize the value of the dollar. Capitalism has produced many great things for this country and the world. I don't want to see that lost. And that would be major disruption to our way of life. Remember: 'small & gradual'. As we all know, somewhere north of 50% of Americans already receive government payments. I'm simply arguing to make that number 100% and let those who want to work, and earn more, do so. Nothing would need change in anybody's life. hmm..you don't think that would give a huge blow to production in this country? If people didn't HAVE to work....would they still? |
| *Heisenberg* (OP) User ID: 21948600 United States10/01/2012 05:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| smokahontas User ID: 925590 Canada10/01/2012 05:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | you bring back those off shored jobs to where I live in NE Ohio, everyone of those jobs will be snatched up in a heartbeat. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23011194 What can we do to bring jobs back? Tax incentives? Tax penalties? How can you compete... a worker in Bengledash works for 23 cents an hour, does not require insurance, workmans Comp, Sick time, Coffee Breaks, Lunch, Overtime pay, a Lack of discrimination. American workers are spoiled and have priced themselves out of these jobs. You get an average of 4hrs, of work in an 8 hr. day in the U.S. and that is if they show up. I keep on average 1 out of every 20 I hire. "I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire "Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley |
| Floobarb the Argnorf User ID: 1550737 United States10/01/2012 05:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| *Heisenberg* (OP) User ID: 21948600 United States10/01/2012 05:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | you bring back those off shored jobs to where I live in NE Ohio, everyone of those jobs will be snatched up in a heartbeat. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23011194 What can we do to bring jobs back? Tax incentives? Tax penalties? How can you compete... a worker in Bengledash works for 23 cents an hour, does not require insurance, workmans Comp, Sick time, Coffee Breaks, Lunch, Overtime pay, a Lack of discrimination. American workers are spoiled and have priced themselves out of these jobs. You get an average of 4hrs, of work in an 8 hr. day in the U.S. and that is if they show up. I keep on average 1 out of every 20 I hire. I do believe the unions had a big part in that. Now what company wants to pay an American $40/hr to do what a chinese worker will do for $1/hr. Not to mention the other problems over paying unskilled laborers tends to have.. |
| smokahontas User ID: 925590 Canada10/01/2012 05:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Find me a 20 year old who is willing to Mine Coal, Find me one that is willing to be a farmer, Lumberjack? We have so many people serving food, working in hotels, wallstreet, banks, that produce nothing... Shopping malls, new cars, Bigger homes, easy jobs thats what americans do. "I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire "Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley |
| *Heisenberg* (OP) User ID: 21948600 United States10/01/2012 05:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Find me a 20 year old who is willing to Mine Coal, Find me one that is willing to be a farmer, Lumberjack? We have so many people serving food, working in hotels, wallstreet, banks, that produce nothing... Shopping malls, new cars, Bigger homes, easy jobs thats what americans do. Quoting: smokahontas Some of that isn't just lazyness tho. The government does it's part in gutting those industries...especially farming! |
| smokahontas User ID: 925590 Canada10/01/2012 05:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We have to readjust our expectations if we are to compete, years of living above our means is catching up. Last Edited by smokahontas on 10/01/2012 05:31 PM "I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire "Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley |
| smokahontas User ID: 925590 Canada10/01/2012 05:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Find me a 20 year old who is willing to Mine Coal, Find me one that is willing to be a farmer, Lumberjack? We have so many people serving food, working in hotels, wallstreet, banks, that produce nothing... Shopping malls, new cars, Bigger homes, easy jobs thats what americans do. Quoting: smokahontas Years ago i applied for a job to plant seedlings in a national forest, when they called and wanted to interveiw, they realised I was caucasian, said nevermind, and that white people never apply for that job. If we were to get rid of the immigrants in this country a head of lettuce would cost $10 "I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire "Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley |
| smokahontas User ID: 925590 Canada10/01/2012 05:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Find me a 20 year old who is willing to Mine Coal, Find me one that is willing to be a farmer, Lumberjack? We have so many people serving food, working in hotels, wallstreet, banks, that produce nothing... Shopping malls, new cars, Bigger homes, easy jobs thats what americans do. Quoting: smokahontas Some of that isn't just lazyness tho. The government does it's part in gutting those industries...especially farming! I agree, Live in Arkansas and know several farmers who are paid not to grow. "I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire "Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley |
| *Heisenberg* (OP) User ID: 21948600 United States10/01/2012 05:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Find me a 20 year old who is willing to Mine Coal, Find me one that is willing to be a farmer, Lumberjack? We have so many people serving food, working in hotels, wallstreet, banks, that produce nothing... Shopping malls, new cars, Bigger homes, easy jobs thats what americans do. Quoting: smokahontas Some of that isn't just lazyness tho. The government does it's part in gutting those industries...especially farming! I agree, Live in Arkansas and know several farmers who are paid not to grow. Exactly....which is ridiculous! |
| smokahontas User ID: 925590 Canada10/01/2012 05:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I must say though, There are not alot of Aspiring farmers in college or high school these days. "I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire "Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 23011194 United States10/01/2012 05:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 23011194 United States10/01/2012 05:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Find me a 20 year old who is willing to Mine Coal, Find me one that is willing to be a farmer, Lumberjack? We have so many people serving food, working in hotels, wallstreet, banks, that produce nothing... Shopping malls, new cars, Bigger homes, easy jobs thats what americans do. Quoting: smokahontas Some of that isn't just lazyness tho. The government does it's part in gutting those industries...especially farming! I agree, Live in Arkansas and know several farmers who are paid not to grow. I'm not exactly sure what this is but 'farm price supports' will be cut Jan 1st. So I think even the farmers will feel the pinch pretty soon.... |
| *Heisenberg* (OP) User ID: 21948600 United States10/01/2012 05:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I must say though, There are not alot of Aspiring farmers in college or high school these days. Quoting: smokahontas Because the industry for it is shrinking. Plus Farming is generally a family thing. If a boy grows up on a farm, he will have a higher chance of being a farmer. The more the government pays people not to farm...the less people will get into farming. |
| *Heisenberg* (OP) User ID: 21948600 United States10/01/2012 05:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | you bring back those off shored jobs to where I live in NE Ohio, everyone of those jobs will be snatched up in a heartbeat. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23011194 What can we do to bring jobs back? Tax incentives? Tax penalties? Hate to say it but it's impossible at this time. Impossible? No way. There has to be a solution.... |
| smokahontas User ID: 925590 Canada10/01/2012 05:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | True, in 1933 29% of U.S. GDP was based on Agriculture, today it is 1% "I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire "Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley |
