LET'S GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THE DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS.

Too bad what? You have totally lost me now. You went off into left field man...

Yes sir it does.

I should check it out. Thanks for the info!

Good stuff. Accurate AND I felt it.

I keep seeing how people have become lazier - but I don't think that's the case. I think it's our definition of "lazy" that has changed.

People used to work 9 to 5 - with an hour for lunch, a 15 minute break at 10 and at 2, and they got paid for 8 hours of work. Now it's 9 - 6 and you don't get paid for lunch. Or it's to 5:30 and you only get a 1/2 hr lunch break - theoretically, you should be getting the 2 breaks paid. If you get the hour lunch - you'll find they put the 2 15 minute breaks in for the 2nd 1/2 hour, and now they don't have to pay for them. Companies quietly got an extra hour of work and saved themselves a boat load of money.

People used to get a job at a company and expected to stay there for their entire careers. This meant they were more dedicated and they cared. Companies started "downsizing" and removed their higher paid older employees. Companies cut back raises and bonuses. Stay some place more than 5 years - and you'd find yourself underpaid. The result is, no one actually cares or takes pride in being a part of the company. They know they'll be gone soon. With this new turnover cycle - no one has the experience or knowledge to pass on to the next generation. Companies lose all the "lessons learned" and wind up repeating costly mistakes time and time again. Employees can no longer feel secure in their jobs, so they don't give as much of themselves as they used to.

At the same time, companies are pushing people harder and harder. Move people from hourly to salary, then pour more work on them until their having to work 50 to 60 hours a week. You now have 2 employees doing the same work that 3 or 4 people used to do...and the company isn't paying overtime at all. This is really where many of the jobs have gone.

Now back to lazy - if someone actually only wants to work 8 hours a day for a decent middle-class salary...we call them lazy. Many people are just too young to realize how much the work place has changed in just 20 years.

We complain about how people are too lazy to pay attention to the real news and we whine about how people don't care about anything except themselves. We holler about all the fast food and quick boxed foods people are stuffing their faces with. We get angry at people that have grown fat. Etc. Etc. Etc.

The truth is - most people are just too damn tired after working 10 -12 hours a day, then coming home to take care of the kids and the housework. There's no time to shop for or cook healthy meals. There's no time for the kids to go outside and play a game of catch with mom or dad. Even if you can find extra time...people are just too frackin' tired. Their brains are tired and that makes a body tired too. The cycle is near impossible to break. The longer you're on the hamster wheel, the worse it gets.

The system is broken. With the ways things are now, the middle class is becoming the working poor. Each year, we're working harder for less.

Then there are the unemployed - another group of people who have been screwed by the actions of the corporations and stock markets, etc.. Contrary to popular opinion, most people really do want to work. Jobs give people a sense of purpose and are important to their mental health. But it's hard to get ANY job, much less one that pays enough to live on.

So in the end - something has to be done to fix this mess. As painful as it would be, the only solution I see is that everything needs to just collapse. Rebuilding from scratch seems to be fastest way up.

Well said.

You are correct, Only with 2 classes rich and poor. This is Obamas plan.

A lot of very good points.

Thanks for sharing your perspective. There is a lot in there I and I think most of us agree with.

Right,right and right H as far as you took it but you missed a couple of very important points. First although you touched on wages it should be noted that wages have failed miserably to keep up with the rate of inflation SINCE 1971. At the very same time we have undergone several periods where the economy was humming along at phenominal rates of growth. One would seem to be the antithesis of the other so how could this be? The answer is the huge expansion of CREDIT on all fronts (homes/autos/consumer goods in the form of credit cards). The public was persuaded that buy now and pay later was virtually the same as earned income. Which of course it is NOT. That is the reason the economy kept humming along expanding rapidly by economic standards. The result was inevitable. When people were overloaded and the bottom fell out 2008 it was all over. Only this time it was different the so called MIDDLE CLASS were the ones pulling the load and the first ones to go down.

It is interesting that the union members whose wages generally kept up with inflation and which actually accounted for the tremendous increase in the middle class were amongst the hardest hit. Especially given the huge anti union sentiment on this site.

ahhh Credit, you are right, I forgot to mention anything at all about credit.

Good catch and good addition.

Thanks for all the replies everyone. This thread turned out to be a pretty good discussion. I am headin home for the evening, if anyone else replies, I will get back to ya tomorrow morning.

That's not how Marx/Engels described their utopìa. No classes was the evolutionary end of history, if I remember. And definitely not a rich class -- the Communist and the Party would, they assumed, stay true to their ideals as the vanguard of the working class until the eventually "withering of the State". Marx/Engels never lived to see their theories implemented in practice -- he was the intellectual author, only...

And no, the present Corporate State kleptocracy isnt what they had in mind. Obama is a puppet of what Mussolini called corporatism..

do you really think that we are that far along that the only thing left is total collapse?

i am very glad that i will never have to look our founding fathers in the eye and explain how we let the finest experiment in the history of man go all to hell. what a damn shame.

Think about it. Some would, some wouldn't.

Who would? Probably those who already work hard, or would like to, in order to 'get ahead' right now (but can't because the economy sux). They would certainly want to do better than a 'keeps you alive' payment from the gov.

Who wouldn't? Probably those who already are on well fare in any of it's forms.

See? Not a big change, a very small one. But it's effect, on this capitalistic economy would be huge.

The middle class wasnt recognized as a class by Marx or any other economist of the time -- during the 19thC their importance to our modern world was easily overlooked. And their relations to the bourgeoisie earned them the derisive term: petite bourgeoisie. The working class and their miserable working and living conditions during the Industrial Revolution is what most people could hardly avoid seeing. Therefore Marx did not postulate that the middle class must be destroyed before the inevitable workers revolution -- they were too small and irrelevant to even be considered.

Another point to noodle on:

Foxconn is the largest electronics contract manufacturer in the world. Foxconn makes the iPhone for Apple. Foxconn has had problems with their workers committing suicide over the last few years. Their solution?

Foxconn has announced a major investment in automation (robotic assembly lines) over the next 2-3 years. This investment will have an immediate return. It will allow Foxconn to lay off 1,000,000 low-wage chinese workers.

In the end, productivity kills jobs...even for those who are willing to work for slave labor wages.

That's why I say the problem isn't economic (the iPhone 6 or 7 may even be cheaper and more plentiful as a result of this). The problem is the monetary system. The only good news I see is that the monetary system just needs a little 'tweaking' to actually make things better for all of us.

This

the average american is a blithering tv addict 24/7

The "Middle Class" has been the traditional enemy of the Communist insurgency, because it attempts to use Capitalism to its fullest extent, and it succeeds.

Obama and the Democrat Nazi Party know this, and are attempting to destroy the "Middle Class" so that it can't fight their Communist Utopian plan, just like every other Communist insurgency in history.

And they can't use punctuation either.

Funny you mentioned the the books 1984 and a brave new world, I watched a hearing on cspan, where a republican woman from the house or senate and a democrat man that used both books as a reference while talking. The woman said that what was happening was right out of 1984 and said if they hadn't read it they need too, if they had they need to reread it, the man said, I read it a brave new world, too.
Never did get what the meeting was about, I think it was how the US heading.

That is from your Manifesto...

Yes it is.

The Individual Sovereignty Manifesto, you wetback fuck.

Glad you cleared that up. The first line is "lie your fucking face off and see if the stupid sheep swallow it". Great contribution to humanity, NOT.

Mow my lawn, and shut the fuck up, Pedro.

Beat your wife much? "Mow my lawn", "wetback fuck", "shut the fuck up", LMAO. Better take your meds, guvnah.

I'd say about 80% of humanity needs to be gassed like bugs.

Exactly what do you think all of those useless dollars would buy? Your solution is a prescription for Hyperinflation.