Please share your views on Chiropractic

I've been going to a chiropractor for nearly 40 years. For some things, there is no better treatment than chiropractic. If there is something out of alignment, then going to a medical doctor for pain meds is not much use. Going to a good chiropractor is.

I absolutely love my chiropractor! I drive about 45 min. to see him as apparently do quite a few other people. He is extremely knowledgeable and keeps himself current on all facets of healthcare. I've been going to him about 20 years now. I value him over my internist.

That being said.. If I were you, I would find a good Dr. or someone currently in that area of the medical field and try to find out how obamacare is affecting the field or how it WILL be affecting it. There is just sooo much info that was in the bill that we are unaware of.

Being that you do not wholeheartedly buy into allopathic medicine, I don't see how you could be content practicing it.

On the other hand, my younger sister started out being a nurse and now she is supervisor of all the coumadin clinics.

If I were younger I would think about being a naturopathic Dr. But there again.. this world is changing so fast due to current powers that be.. I don't envy your having to make a decision. Hope you're a Christian and can pray for guidance. I wish you the very best!

Lol. The shortage is NOT fictional. This is a profession which is recession proof!

Chiropractic care is amazing. Misalignment can be the cause of many ailments, including headaches and some digestive problems. Also, sometimes chiropractic can sometimes cure colic in babies, though personally I refused adjustments for any reason on my babies.

My chiropractic provider also does acupunture and some new thing I've never heard of.

Chiropractors are essentially bullshit alternative medicine, but as you can see from this thread there is no shortage of idiots who will pay you BIG BUCKS for what is essentially non-medical massage therapy.

I say, if people are stupid enough to pay for such services, soak'em - just don't call yourself a real doctor.

From years of experience with chiropractic, the very best is N.U.C.C.A.- 25 years of chronic pain went away after the first visit.
Gonstead is xlnt also.

See "Dragster crash at 320mph".

Going to a chiropractor requires a bit of a partnership. While the chiropractor knows bones, only you know your body. After forty years of going to chiropractors I know the things they do that work and the things they do that don't work on my bones. They're not miracle workers, some of them are full of shit and some of then truly care for physical and spiritual well being of the patient.

Buyer beware.

The cost of all "medical" training has gone through the roof. That is what happens when you put a middleman in the loop. Before there were student loans for Chiropractic education the cost was reasonable. Now it is through the roof.

In the 1970's tuition was around 500.00 per quarter. Three quarters were equal to 1 academic year. The curriculum went for 12 quarters and the total tuition was around 6,000.00. Add books, lab fees, etc to that.

I hear that tuition is 10-15 times what it was then. Most DC's now come out of college with 100-150,000 in student debt. The Chiropractic profession is an awesome calling. But you have to decide if the cost of the education is in line with the reward.

As a practicing DC, I don't know if I would do it again considering the cost of the education. All the higher education institutions seem to place too much emphasis on making money. Rather than in educating students at a fair price

My chiropractor went to school longer than my internist. There are many I'm sure that are not very good. However there are also those who are worth their weight in gold and deserve every dollar they charge.

Oh yeah.. my guy uses the activator technique... which is a "tool" that allows me NOT to have to be a contortionist.

I went one time and it was so much hocu pocus BS that I never went back. Instead I looked online and figured out how to adjust my out of place spinal vertabrae all by myself. They didn't fix my problem in an hour visit. I fixed it in 3 seconds. They wanted me to contract for a thousand dollars worth of visits.

I am a chiropractor, 2 years out of school with my first private office. We do excellent work daily, touch lives daily, but also have limitations. If its education you seek be very very very careful what you get into, its 120 grand education, 4.5 years of the hardest education you will face with no guarentee of solid employment afterwards unless you find an excellent and fair doc to work with (good luck). If you open solo, its a small business so you must expect to take out a ton of loans to fund an office and staff, you will make no money your first year and will pay so much of your time, energy, and passion for the profession back to the banks, gubermint, and a million vultures taking every penny they can from you. I am solvent, and doing well, but I make no money after I pay overhead and staff costs. I went a little bigger in presentation of the office instead of using second hand equipment, its a wonderful office, but the headaches of maintaining staff, patients, and ever decreasing insurance reimbursements is enough to make me wish I stayed in my previous profession.

It is a very interesting field, but opportunities are only up to those who really really go for it, if you go half cocked you will fail (as with all small business). I watched plenty of students get chewed up in the BS school hustle that is modern education and lose alot of money, wives, and life force.

However I see many who are doing well and making a buck or two.

You will see amazing things with the adjustments, but it is a very philosophical based profession with alot of internal infighting and alot of disrespect (warrented and unwarrented) by TPTB and general public as well. Some will make a killing, some will struggle till the day they die, others will fail on the spot.

I was told in school out of the three of you standing only one will truley make it, one will fail, one will barley get buy.

They will try to shove a ton of prophaganda at you, some is worth looking into and helps inspire you some is designed to increase enrollment and retention into their system so they can clean student loans out to keep the profession alive.

Few people know that in the early years we went to jail for performing it. Many chiropactors have lost more than their wallet some lost their lives as well.

Chirotalk is a decent skeptical forum made by ex DCs and is worth a look at, however some are too bitter for their own good because it didnt work out for them, but look and I do mean look very closley at your needs and expected income. Dont let either side totally dominate your viewpoint, educate yourself into the scary prosepct of being so beyond debt above the national average and possibly no leg to stand on as well as the prosepect of being an amazing facilitator of health to many folks for a variety of conditions.

Some chiros are scam artists ripping off patients and the system , some of us really really really try to make a difference, and some are working at Denny's making minimum wage.

It is a daily battle to be above water in all respects to solvency, care level, concern for the patients, and actually giving a S...t about what you do and those who you care for.

Most interesting ride of my life at this point.

Good luck, god speed, but be both inspired and warned.

DEAD ON EXCALIBUR!!!.

My instructors spent 60 grand for the education, Ispent 120 grand not including interest, wont even begin to say the total for a decent office to practice in. All in all you can imagine the burden in this economy and slipping insurance world.

i knew a lady who got a mild stroke from being treated by a chiropractor ( around her neck )

I don't see a nursing shortage happening here. I have known several classes that have graduated while I was doing pre requisite course work. From two community colleges and the closest university. Over the past two years at best fifty percent of the new grads have found RN jobs, most have gone back to working as a CNA or are still unemployed and back to being housewifes. I'm in California where nearly every community college has 20-30 new RNs every three months plus there are a ton of private schools and universities as well. Perhaps it is different where you are! If so I'd suggest going on allnurses and letting the masses of new grads know there are jobs for them somewhere.

A couple of the Universities I am looking into offer multiple modalities for double majors. I could also take classes in Acupuncture while studying for my DC. Some schools also have programs in TCM which I would love to study as well but would have to add an extra year in school which would likley be worth it in the end. My main passion is for Ayuervedia but it is not a recognized science here in the US so there are no accredited universities or a demand for practitioners.

I hope you don't mind my asking which school you attended? I am considering New York Chiropractic College, Palmer in Davenport and possily Southern California University of Health Sciences. I really don't think Sherman would be a good fit because of all the negative things I've read online but I haven't actually spoken to anyone that went to school there. My goal upon graduaiting is to try to get a fellowship at the University or work at the campus clinic to get a few years of experience. I also plan on doing income based repayment and get by enough to own my own home and have an armageddon plan but feel no need for getting rich. I am a single mom and work as a nursing assistant for a mere 10/hr which is next to nothing after taxes, gas and daycare copay. I truly feel I can become a successful chiropractor and make a difference in the wellbeing of others and possibly influence more of the general public into following health and wellness practices that are not detremental to themselves and the environment.

My new close friend is a second generation chiropractor. I was skeptical at first and i don't really trust Dr's in the first place. Well my back went out last week and i give a call to my buddy. A pop a snap and a twist and the unbearable shooting nerve pain is gone and i went to work. This has happened to me before and usually keeps me bed ridden for a week or so followed by a few weeks of considerable pain. I am now a true believer in what that profession can do. I am good as new and have had no pain since the adjustment.

I am actually considering naturopathic medicine as well but I would have to take an extra year of undergraduate work to apply. The ND programs require a BS degree unlike Chiropractic or Medical school. I was really shocked when I found this out!
From what I have read I think that Obamacare will have a negative impact on most chiros who are in it for the money. The reimbursment rate is about half of what less expensive chiros charge. So if all chiros had to accept the insurance those who are in it for the money would take a giant loss! However there is soon to be acceptance of chiros into all VA hospitals and outpatient clinics so it will increase the amount of entry level positions which isn't going to get anyone rich but will create a demand for more chiros over the next few years.

18 years ago my infant son had a fall and developed hydrocephalus. They wanted to do brain surgery on him and install a shunt. They told us that he would lead a normal life, but when I asked if that incuded playing football, hockey, parachuting, and living in the wilderness for weeks or months at a time, they looked at me like I was a retard.

We took him to a homeopath who put him on tissue salts, and then we took him to a chiropractor in New Mexico who had also studied cranial-sacral therapy. He was able to effect a 100% cure on our son, without surgery. This would not work in every case, but our son's case was developing slowly which gave us time to try alternate therapy.

By the age of three, our son spoke both of Canada's official languages fluently and could ride a two-wheel bicycle with no training wheels. Although he never played football or hockey, he did make the Territorial soccer team, and led his school to local basketball, and volleyball championships. None of that would have been possible had he followed the surgical route.

I know her - it wasn't a stroke at all. In fact, she was in constant pain and now runs two miles a day.

But you must be the guy she's suing for slandering her and her chiropractor. It's amazing you haven't learned your lesson after that last stretch in prison you did for fraud.

I went to Life Marietta Georgia, its a nice school, but my god in heaven rife with issues, as they are all going to be. Again its how you look at the experience. I know quite a few jaded folks, and quite a few struggling to make it, and some who have done very well. I dont know much about the other school however, sherman is very small. Life I would say is one of the bigger ones. Palmer in Iowa I heard is good, however boring. Atlanta can be a fun place at times. However I was too busy studying to ever really enjoy it.

Palmer Florida is near the beach from what I gather, but again I dont know much beyond Life U.

Once you get through the nightmare of the first 8 quarters you will be in the Clinic system. That is were it really begins to suck for most students. Its very very tough to get the requirements in a quarter, so I know quite a few who got recirculated through many times before being able to complete it all. I am sure by the time you deal with the madness that is chiroschool you will be like most and will flee to the far corners of the earth to get away. I dont see many people super excited to stick around in the clinic post grad. They pay their teachers about as much as you will make getting out if your not careful.....which is peanuts. You do it out of love, not out of money for the most part.


Word of advice, if you must pick this profession, have a solid game plan for post grad, an office and collateral lined up prior to walking. Get business (not school class BS) but real understanding of small business (book keeping, taxes, insurance requirements, start up of business, gov regs etc.) its a very disturbing crash course when feeding your family is one the line.

have plan AB and C ready at a drop of hat. You will spend too many years and too much fortune to go half cocked. It is not be trifled with thats for sure.

REmember board exams are just hoops, have absolutely no bearing on what it takes to be a decent doctor. Its all about judgement, clinical deduction, and being caring.

Really really research the skeptic boards and the proboards, to get a balanced decision ask alot of current docs the pros and cons and dont take "its all awesome for an answer", they all sacrificed something.

If you go through with it, then make your decision to leave if you find out its not your game by the 4th quarter prior to spending thousands on Board exams 1 through 4 and PT examination.

Really really really really think about it, cause I didnt and if given another chance I may have made another choice. For example "optometrist, people fork out tons of money for lenses and frames no questions asked, its a pretty direct field. Muskuloskeletal care is about results, if patients are not getting better in a few visits you get to play a dance of patience with them.

Its also about your office dynamic, if you startup pain practice you will patch and fix people nonstop for every little pain they have. If you set up a subluxation practice its a different dynamic, personal injury different dynamic, etc. It gets stupid complicated sometimes.

Fuck those chiros!

They fucked me up worse than before i went in for the first treatment,my fucking shoulder and back will never be the same.

Twisting,pulling,jerking on my body tore my body up!

SCAR TISSUE!

Joints are are messed up with it.

THEY ARE A BLESSING FROM THE LORD!

Be leary about the whole VA acceptance and outpatient clinic acceptance, its going to be limited, and even if they open the doors wide open its still not enough positions to fill the thousands that graduate yearly. They will be sucked up not by entry level docs, but Chiros who have poll positioned to get in. At best you may get lucky to be an assistant, if they actually pay you some fair salary that may be a decent idea, but again I just dont see it being the waters parting for chiropractors. (I may be wrong on that notion, but its just what I see)

Regardless of Obama care they are constantly slashing benefits and placing limits on visits. Chiropractic had a golden era called the "Mercedes 80's" that was when insurance reimbursed almost everything no questions. Those days are so far from over. I often put out a thousand dollars in services (multiple patient visits account for this) its not uncommon to see checks for zero, 20 dollars, some times 100 dollars. To get the money you have to play a serious game with your money and hire someone to track down every penny and hustle. As the economy gets worse they will slash massage and chiro first period, we dont have the lobby force of big pharma or the AMA to fluff our congressmen and senators. PEIA insurance completely stopped covering massage for my state, and Blue Cross placed a 7-10 visit limit. Who knows how bad its really going to get, so I and many others are prepared to step over to pure cash.

Lastly get used to people like the ones above who did not get good results. Its often out of bad experiences with their Chiro. I have lit a few folks up in my day, but 90 percent get amazing results. Its a burden sometimes, again being an eye doctor would be much better. It really is about results. Some folks too will just show up to try to sue you, some will try to skip out on paying, some will be there just to see if you will give them disability, some will be Personal injury and worker comp scamers. Most will be genuine and in need of care. Its sad to say some have no hope but a life time of pharma awaiting them because thats what they really want or in some horrible cases all that will manage their pain.

Over 300 different techniques and spinoff techniques, multiple office styles, and various levels of competency, its a shot in the dark sometimes with who is good, bad, and great.

I find that to be the biggest struggle, just keeping them happy so they refer their family and friends. If not you can lose so much.

Some also get horrible results because they came in with bodies that are completely trashed from years of neglect, expecting miracles for the price of a happy meal. Sometimes seeing such amazing results on so many leads you to feel you can "fix em all", drop that notion fast. I have made several decisions to not accept people by just how they approach my staff. If they appear to be "gimme dats" bounce them fast, if they approach calmly and you feel genuine accept, if they also seem like initially gut response they are too far gone or too damaged upon xray, just say it. They can always find another braver soul who make take the chance.

Never forget we trash our bodies to get others better, doing full spine physical based adjusting destroys your back and neck. I do alot of instrument "Activator/Athrostim" and drop table technique to spare my body, but every click of the activator, every drop, every thrust you feel it at the end of the day. If you are not in shape x10 the effect.

People just have no idea what it really takes out of us, it will make you hardened to some folks who smite our name as a profession. No more gotta sleep, 20 people tomorrow who need fixing, or whatever.

Thanks for all the feedback:) Could you elaborate on the clinical experience you had? Why is it difficult to get the requirements in? Are you required to do a specific number of adjusments of different techniques rather than a specific amount of hours in the clinic? I have tried to look up informaiton about the clinical portion of the universites but just find tons of stuff on the academics so hearing about your expereience would be awesome!

I really dont feel a need to own my own business (is this alone a reason not to go into chiro). I feel like I would be happy being an associate forever. Perhaps this will change after a few years of working for someone else. Although it is not a way to get rich, I feel better having the steady income of being an employee rather than a business owner. Perhaps I'm just brainwashed to think I must be a loyal employee from working at a low wage job as a nursing assistant changing underware and bathing old folks for years....

3 parts to clinic. Mind you you must pass what is known as OSCE exams at each stage to advance independent of the mimimum adjusting requirements. This is done while you are taking boards (600 question exams) and your school midterms and finals wich are literally 2-3 weeks part (busy busy bee you will be with manic overload the whole way) You also must have minimum classes taken if you fail a class you can not be accepted into the next class due to overlap and lack of schedule space, which will be like a proxy fail into clinic (it just equals more quarters invested to get in and out, more thousands a quarter each time, expect it to happen most experience it at some point and fall behind.) Everybody I knew from my quarter fell almost 1/2 year behind the orginal class (20 maybe made it solid), the rest scattered any where from 1/2 year to 2 years behind due to course work retakes, clinic failures, board exam failures, osce failures each you are punished for in a vague indiscriminate way for not achieving (hidden money making opportunity by proxy for the institution, well known issue and well complained against with no ever solution given to make it easier, but why would they hundreds of thousands a quarter made this way).

Ok lets get to it:

1 Certain courses (must pass)
2 Part 1 exams( 2 days on a weekend 660 questions like 10 topics anatonmy, biochem, spinal anatomy, physiology, neurology etc. paid for out of pocket, must pass)
3 Osce one exam (you go around to different rooms and display ortho,neuro, visceral diagnostic tests like blood pressure, palpation skills, ausultation of the heart and on and on and on, while regurtating verbatium about 200 pages of memorized info which you will do at each OSCE every time at every level (it gets easier as the years go on cause you do it millions of time in class, tests, and OSCE exams) (must pass)
4 Accepted into Clinic phase 1 (other registration reqiurements, in house meetings and such to get you prepared for the requirments they need)
Phase 1 Student Clinic (5-7 quarter), you are assigned a student from 1st quarter and aquire a few extra, adjust them, have to have a minimum amount of adjustments, xrays, physicals. Its easy and fun, you are supervised and most of the Docs are cool. Walk inthe park. The adjustment requirements are few, I do believe you have a minimum amount of weekly hours spent, but that detail if I remember is not as important as if you are doing the work , they use it as ammo if you bitch that you are not meeting the requirments.
(if you pass you move after two quarter of that to Phase 2)

Phase 2 Clinic
1 Certain courses (must pass)
2 Part 2/3 (combined exam) exam (must pass (not 100 percent positive you have too, but it would not shock me that u have too)
3 Osce two exam (must pass bit harder than one, more tests, stricter grading)
4 Accepted into Clinic phase 2

This is outpatient clinic hear you adjust members of the general population, any one you can sucker, or be lucky to get assigned, sounds easy. Some do just fine, but you have way way more adjustments, physical exams, and xray to take and report on. If you misdiagnose your assigned xray cases you fail so you have to hustle to cram all this in in two quarters. ( I believe its a minimum adjustment level of like 20 or so for the 1st quarter but you must have like 50-100 by the end of 2nd quarter to advance, it can be really really scary when the time is flying. This clinic is small too many students crammed into it fighting for time slots, patients and such. The doctors can be real unique fuck tards, some are really talented, some are just jaded and earning a paycheck. You will spend countless of precious hours on your weekend, evenings, in between classes trying to schedule your patients, sometimes you cant get slots and your patients who work outside of the campus cannot be seen, sometimes they bail on you or dont show up it get really stressful. Physical exams which take minutes to complete in real life can take 2 days (you have to have docs present to sign off on your work they are too overloaded to be in a million places at once. I have spent 8 hours in clinic on many occasion skipping class to have to wait for them to sign off or just to meet patients any patient who is wondering the hall to squeeze an adjustment. If you stay in the loop you can get handed down some from graduating classmates who will appreciate the cheap guinea pig care level and do just fine, but its still quite the process. You spend hours typing reports, filling out duplicate paperwork , asking for permission to do any little thing and face some seriously daunting obstacles along the way sometimes. People failed regularly, got held back, had panic attacks, explosions, some just flew on no problem (thats the minority I remember, most struggled). ITs a huge issue always changed, policy is always changing, new rules on top of rules make it harder and less efficient quarter per quarter.
So you make all of the requirements pass all of the OSCE, Board exams, and regular classes to be accepted into Phase 3

1 Certain courses (must pass)
2 Part 2/3/4 (Part 4 was a walk in the park its like OSCE but easier because they are not in it to make you repeat it they need national statistics saying how awesome each school is so as long as you study and really apply your skills you will pass (I blew that test out by over 100 points above passing level, but my state requires a very high score to be admitted into it so I had extra pressure, the exam is a thousand or so dollars, some fail, most squeeze buy just fine) (AGain you may not have to pass 4 yet, but I am almost sure 2 and 3 have to be completed by this phase)

3 Osce 3 exam (basically a prep for 4 harder than 1/2 with more diagnosis, more demonstration requirements, harder grading)(must pass)
4 Accepted into Clinic phase 3

THis is your choice of menu Study abroad (china costa rica, I think Iceland/Africa, limited spaces for this so be proactive if you want a chance, however you get to be shipped off while many things need doing back home), then you have the option of a Drug rehab clinic (Life U Marietta Georgia only each school is different at this point from what I understand not all have the study abroad option)

Most students have to work with an outside doctor who is either a total asshole that dosent let them adjust patients jepordizing your graduation dates, or like mine so cool it was retarded. Mine allowed me to do basically whatever I wanted as long as I showed up to joke with him and talk about girls, usually just signed off on my adjustments which may or may not have actually taken place. I was the exception alot had bad experiences. Doctors who made them clean toilets, file paperwork, any free labor they treat you as, but certainly not allow you to learn how to be a competent doctor. Some did well to instruct the students on small biz, insurance, and game plans post grad (mine did a good job at this). YOu have to have something like 200-230 adjustments completed to graduate in today from all levels of clinic combined 15 physicals, 20 xrays or so. Sounds easy but is a nightmare to many, while trying to not fail in classes that are often so hard its stuipid. HOwever alot of idiots make it, and alot of good ones dont, its all backwards in the end.

PRior to graduation they cram like 20-30 subrequirments that have to be done, like writing summaries of each case you ever saw, visit talleys, certain lil homework assignments you often even forget to do until its staring you in the face, some people didnt even know they had to dothis stuff until 48hours prior to walking with family in town and the real prospect of failing another quarter when they assume they are done. Its a million details and miss one you screw up bad.

After all that you graduate, they ask to return your cap and gown (Being a Dr. should allow you the respect to keep, sash) you are given (in our situation) a biofreeze Tshirt, a mini diploma with the orginal mailed to you at great cost, and a vertebra coffe mug (I shit you not that is what they did after 120 grand and hardcore school, maybe a nice pen which I have laying in a box somewhere). Then its have a nice reception, and the bill is in the mail.

It feels way good..I just go there and ask a female to help me..nothin better than those hands on me.

Most chiros end up in a solo office, associate ships usually suck and can be predatory, some (few) work out to be fair distributions of cash. Some chiros teach at the schools, some open side offices while teaching, or writing books, or selling practice management programs. Some work as consultants for companies. Some become DACBARs which are chiro radiologists who read and bill for reading films all day (good money in that field, but you are not adjuster you are just a xray person in large part) Some work for sales companies trying to hustle offices for new equipment, programs, guarentees and other often labled BS.

You will end up for the most part facing two options contracting in an office or owning your own if you choose to be an adjuster.