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PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!

 
FunCoTech

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10/02/2012 01:11 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
I remember all of that and how incredibly evil the Bush Junta was but I still don't believe 9-11 was an inside job.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24715192


Omg - how incredibly ignorant you must be, don't you investigate things at ALL? There must be dozens of totally inexplicable facts, and even more videos disclosing them.
I mean what Possible explanation could their be for tonnes of MOLTEN steel under the rubble 4-5 WEEKS later. Try to imagine for just a moment how hot it must have been to start with - keeping in mind that it's simply NOT POSSIBLE to even melt steel by burning kerosine or office furniture.
Fool or shill, you choose.
 Quoting: FunCoTech

That's partly why i suggested an "alternate reality".
 Quoting: all_the_kings_horses 23725903


Please explain?
I have NO IDEA what you mean.
all_the_kings_horses
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United States
10/02/2012 01:20 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
interesting stuff but i don't believe it because it's just too perfect. Sounds more like a novel than the way things unfold in real life. Unless you are talking about some kind of alternate reality, that's the only way i see info making sense.
 Quoting: all_the_kings_horses 23725903


The timing of it IS what's important.

And I think the "official" explanation for his assassination is the more unrealistic one for the reasons I gave above. Just my opinion.
 Quoting: Thor's Hamster


If it was just one or two things, they could be discounted...begrudgingly. But EVERYthing regarding 9/11 is like this. The coincidental timing, the way it all seemed to work out so perfectly. It's too much....FAR too much. It's circumstantial evidence for now, but it's overwhelming.
 Quoting: Thor's Hamster


Lee Harvey Oswald as well as the Bush family had a hell of a lot of coincidences in their lives too. Far more than normal...makes one wonder what really going on in this world!
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 01:28 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
Wow, this is the type of post that keeps me coming to these conspiracy websites like GLP. I've read quite a bit about 9-11 and what happened that day, but I always try to read as much as possible. So I click on most threads and its 99% garbage. Maybe once a month there is a thread like this. So good! 9-11 was my own personal red pill, if you will, and I wish there was a way to repay the researchers other than buying their books and giving their threads good votes.
all_the_kings_horses
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10/02/2012 01:30 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
There are a number of scenario or story lines and rather than all but one passing the fact test, we get the feeling that several narratives seemed to have somehow happened. In spite of it supposedly being impossible.
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 01:33 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
interesting stuff but i don't believe it because it's just too perfect. Sounds more like a novel than the way things unfold in real life. Unless you are talking about some kind of alternate reality, that's the only way i see info making sense.
 Quoting: all_the_kings_horses 23725903

Have you never heard the expression, "Truth is stranger than fiction"... well it's true.

At an earlier stage in my life I got to see a bit of "The War on Terror" up close (my post about Abdul Haq was not something I read in a magazine, but something I heard from one of Haq's friends) and it never ceased to amaze me how byzantine and complex the real stories are compared to the novels.
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 01:38 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
I remember all of that and how incredibly evil the Bush Junta was but I still don't believe 9-11 was an inside job.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24715192


Omg - how incredibly ignorant you must be, don't you investigate things at ALL? There must be dozens of totally inexplicable facts, and even more videos disclosing them.
I mean what Possible explanation could their be for tonnes of MOLTEN steel under the rubble 4-5 WEEKS later. Try to imagine for just a moment how hot it must have been to start with - keeping in mind that it's simply NOT POSSIBLE to even melt steel by burning kerosine or office furniture.
Fool or shill, you choose.
 Quoting: FunCoTech

That's partly why i suggested an "alternate reality".
 Quoting: all_the_kings_horses 23725903


Please explain?
I have NO IDEA what you mean.
 Quoting: FunCoTech


There are a number of scenario or story lines and rather than all but one passing the fact test, we get the feeling that several narratives seemed to have somehow happened. In spite of it supposedly being impossible.
take a looks at Judy Wood's Book "Where did the towers go?" or website... i call it A scientist looks at 911....then try to stir that in with what the OP is saying.And that's just two of many possible story lines.
all_the_kings_horses
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10/02/2012 01:42 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
interesting stuff but i don't believe it because it's just too perfect. Sounds more like a novel than the way things unfold in real life. Unless you are talking about some kind of alternate reality, that's the only way i see info making sense.
 Quoting: all_the_kings_horses 23725903

Have you never heard the expression, "Truth is stranger than fiction"... well it's true.

At an earlier stage in my life I got to see a bit of "The War on Terror" up close (my post about Abdul Haq was not something I read in a magazine, but something I heard from one of Haq's friends) and it never ceased to amaze me how byzantine and complex the real stories are compared to the novels.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21903530

Fantastic point, thanks...language alters our experiences...Language is a poor substitute for experience...
FunCoTech

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10/02/2012 01:50 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
...


Omg - how incredibly ignorant you must be, don't you investigate things at ALL? There must be dozens of totally inexplicable facts, and even more videos disclosing them.
I mean what Possible explanation could their be for tonnes of MOLTEN steel under the rubble 4-5 WEEKS later. Try to imagine for just a moment how hot it must have been to start with - keeping in mind that it's simply NOT POSSIBLE to even melt steel by burning kerosine or office furniture.
Fool or shill, you choose.
 Quoting: FunCoTech

That's partly why i suggested an "alternate reality".
 Quoting: all_the_kings_horses 23725903


Please explain?
I have NO IDEA what you mean.
 Quoting: FunCoTech


There are a number of scenario or story lines and rather than all but one passing the fact test, we get the feeling that several narratives seemed to have somehow happened. In spite of it supposedly being impossible.
take a looks at Judy Wood's Book "Where did the towers go?" or website... i call it A scientist looks at 911....then try to stir that in with what the OP is saying.And that's just two of many possible story lines.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23725903


Ok, I see what you mean now - sorry if I sounded hostile.
One thing I can't get over is just how many "clues" they left around. It's hard to believe they really thought intelligent non-sheeple would believe the official story - at least with the murder of JFK they Tried to conceal the facts.
It makes me a bit worried that when martial law is declared we will be rounded up. I.e. it was done in order to identify/expose the non brain dead so they could be identified.
I feel a bit safer here in Oz, but still in danger. I'd be much quieter if I lived in the USA.
That thing I mentioned re molten steel is just surreal - the rate of heat loss would be fantastic, it's literally incredible, yet undeniably real.
Anonymous Coward
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Indonesia
10/02/2012 03:03 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
The OP is completely off base on why Massoud was taken out.

It was prep for 9/11 to be sure. But it was a move by al Qaeda/Taliban to weaken the opposition in Afghanistan. They did not want Massoud as a US ally against the Taliban. They knew the US would get involved militarily after the attacks. Al Qaeda has stated their goal is to involve the US in conflicts across the globe to drain our treasury and weaken us.

Massoud would have been a powerful US ally and would have led to unifying Afghanistan. The Taliban and al Qaeda used the blueprint we gave them in the 1980s to bog down the Soviet forces in an unwinnable conflict against us.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288758

Conspiracy Theorists are more about biased conjectures presented as truth, using facts coerced to support consp-theo's belief system. Unbiased will consider whatever facts and change their belief system accordingly, not sticking to a rigid unchangable belief system.

So according to OP, Massoud fought against Soviet an Taliban. And Taliban as his enemy, wasn't supposed to take him out (You must love Taliban, they're such compassionate enemy), only Neocons would do that coz Massoud was a principled un-puppet-able man and neocons wanted a puppet. Ok, according to OP, Taliban was creation of CIA in 1980s, probably Mossad too, or Zionists or Illuminati, take your pick. So, Taliban was controlled by CIA at the highest level. The recent Taliban raid on NATO base in Helmand must be CIA's wonderful work too if you want to retain the storyline of Taliban is CIA's robots. Non conspiracists would be wondering, if the CIA/Mossad/Zionist/Illuminati Gods has created and controlled the Taliban, why then were they fighting the Taliban till now? Why not just disbanded the group if you as evil neocons has successfully placed your puppets on the throne of afghanistan? Hey, if I was the supposed evil Neocons, I would want a Massoud, someone who, according to OP, can garnered coalition of various tribes. If I wanted my supposed oil pipeline safe, I'd rather negotiate with a Mossoud than installed a so called puppet who can't keep the country secure.

All this unproven fact of "Massoud was killed because he blocked Neocons plan" is based on the contention of OP, which is nothing more than a conjecture worshipped as truth.


Now the following is fact, not conjecture, fact that can be checked:

[link to abcnews.go.com]

George Bush only played golf 24 times in his 2 terms as President.

King Obama is well past 100 times in less than 4 years.
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 03:40 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
On September 9, 200 (2 days before 9/11), Ahmad Shah Massoud ("The Lion of Panjir") was assassinated. He was an ethnic Tajik from the north of Afghanistan, and had battled the Soviet Union, as well as the Taliban. He was very well respected (even by his enemies) and loved by his allies. He was a coalition builder among the various tribes that constituted the resistance to both the Soviet communist occupation of Afghanistan, and the subsequent Taliban takeover of the country. He was a warrior who led courageously by example, proving his mettle time and time again for over 2 decades. Heavy on charisma, courage, and humility, he was the symbol of an Afghanistan nation, yearning to shed the yoke of oppressive rule, from wherever it came. He was loved like no other leader of his time anywhere in the world.

Suicide bombers, posing as a reporter and a cameraman (with the video camera and battery belt loaded with explosives) killed Massoud while conducting their much sought after interview with him. Tens of thousands of people in Afghanistan turned out to mourn his loss, and dignitaries from foreign nations paid their respects, as well.

Here's the connection to 9/11...

It's my contention (and that of many others) that there was foreknowledge of 9/11, and that roadblocks to its derailment be removed, thus clearing the way for a smooth "new Pearl Harbor" (ala the report "Rebuilding America's Defenses" by the Project for the New American Century), which would allow for neoconservative foreign policy objectives that otherwise would be unattainable.

Most of us have read the reports that an invasion of Afghanistan had been planned earlier in 2001.

Also, most of us recall Vice President Dick Cheney's secret energy meetings of February 2001, which a government watchdog group sued to have the minutes of be made public. The case went to the Supreme Court. Several weeks before the Court was to rule on the case, VP Dick Cheney went duck hunting in Louisiana with Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia for several days. (Gee, I wonder what Cheney discussed with him) Lo and behold, when it came time for the Supreme Court to rule on the case, it ruled that the minutes from VP Dick Cheney's secret energy meetings did NOT have to be made public.

Most of us also recall that, as Governor of Texas, George W. Bush facilitated a meeting between the Taliban government of Afghanistan and American oil interests in Texas in 1998. This meeting was to discuss a proposed pipeline that American oil executives wanted to build through Afghanistan (because they had to skirt Iran due to political considerations and sanctions) from the Caspian Sea Basin down through southern Pakistan and out to the Arabian Sea (Indian Ocean). It was reported that after much wrangling, the American oil delegation gave the Taliban an ultimatum: "We'll either carpet you in gold, or we'll carpet you in bombs." In other words, they made them an offer they couldn't refuse. But the Taliban DID refuse.

With the "new Pearl Harbor" (9/11) approaching, American officials wanted the "climate" in Afghanistan to be as much in our favor as possible. Meaning: American officials wanted an absolute puppet waiting in the wings to take power in Afghanistan, once the inevitable & planned military overthrow of the Taliban occurred. Someone America could control totally and absolutely. That man was/is Hamid Karzai. Prior to 9/11, Hamid Karzai worked for UNOCAL as that company's representative in Afghanistan. Don't be fooled by the tribal attire he wears. He's as much at home in that attire as Jesse Jackson would be wearing the white hood and sheet of the KKK. He's a western (specifically American) puppet.

However, the logical choice to head the new Afghanistan would be Ahmad Shah Massoud. There was no doubt in anyone's mind, if Afghanistan could once again win its freedom, Massoud was far and away the most eligible, credible, respected, loved, and charismatic person to rule Afghanistan. In a country where tribal disputes fractured the people, the National Hero of Afghanistan -- Ahmad Shah Massoud -- was a tried and tested coalition builder, proving his mettle doing so during the Soviet Occupation and the Taliban rule.

However, Massoud presented a problem for American officials in their post-Taliban Afghanistan. Massoud was capable of leading withOUT incredible amounts of foreign aid or military occupation. His life was a resume to assume leadership of the country he loved so much. But American officials needed someone who needed America as much or more than we needed them. Enter Hamid Karzai -- an installed puppet, who, without massive American monetary and military aid, would fall tomorrow, because he's not a well-respected, battle-tested, coalition-building, charismatic Mujahideen hero from past wars of freedom in Afghanistan. American officials wanted someone they could control. Someone who, when American officials said, "Jump!", he'd ask, "How high?" American officials wanted someone who so thoroughly needed American power to prop him up, that he wouldn't put up a fuss when American oil companies wanted to build a pipeline through his country...or re-allow the cultivation of the massive opium crop...or make military incursions into Pakistan...to prospect for valuable minerals like lithium (which is used to make batteries for computers, smart phones and smart pads, and which Afghanistan is loaded with).

The timing was perfect. On September 9, 2001, the two suicide bombers (believing they were doing the Taliban's or al Qaeda's or whomever's will -- all of whom at their highest level work for American intelligence, as they were a creation of American intelligence in the 1980s, and have never stopped being so; but of whom at their lower levels genuinely believe they're engaged in a religious war) assassinated Ahmad Shah Massoud, the Lion of the Panjir (which is the valley in northern Afghanistan where he was from).

Now the stage was set. The Taliban's days were numbered after the soon to be completed 9/11 "terrorist attack". The slate was wiped clean for successor to rule Afghanistan. Hamid Karzai was waiting in the wings. We had our puppet, and his only competition had now been eliminated.

And we've had our way in Afghanistan (vis a vis their government leadership) ever since.
 Quoting: Thor's Hamster


Just counting...

[link to www.fas.org]

I make a quotation:

"Table 2. American Casualties by Year Through September 5, 2012

Year Total Deaths Total Wounded in Action
2001 11 33

As you can see, these numbers begin with the typical freemasonic scala, 11 and 33!

What shall I think now?????bump
Thor's Hamster (OP)

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10/02/2012 03:41 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
Wow, this is the type of post that keeps me coming to these conspiracy websites like GLP. I've read quite a bit about 9-11 and what happened that day, but I always try to read as much as possible. So I click on most threads and its 99% garbage. Maybe once a month there is a thread like this. So good! 9-11 was my own personal red pill, if you will, and I wish there was a way to repay the researchers other than buying their books and giving their threads good votes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24312404


Thanks very much. I really appreciate that. :) I feel the same way. There are juicy morsels and nuggets of gold (to coin a couple of cliches) in some of the least expected places.
Apollo astronauts couldn't have passed through Van Allen's Belt. Van Allen wore suspenders.
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 03:42 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
So one more name to add to the list of hundreds of thousands of people you truthtards think were involved.
Thor's Hamster (OP)

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10/02/2012 03:45 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
interesting stuff but i don't believe it because it's just too perfect. Sounds more like a novel than the way things unfold in real life. Unless you are talking about some kind of alternate reality, that's the only way i see info making sense.
 Quoting: all_the_kings_horses 23725903

Have you never heard the expression, "Truth is stranger than fiction"... well it's true.

At an earlier stage in my life I got to see a bit of "The War on Terror" up close (my post about Abdul Haq was not something I read in a magazine, but something I heard from one of Haq's friends) and it never ceased to amaze me how byzantine and complex the real stories are compared to the novels.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21903530


So true! I, too, have had some experiences in these realms, and know what you say to be 100% true about truth being stranger than fiction.
Apollo astronauts couldn't have passed through Van Allen's Belt. Van Allen wore suspenders.
Thor's Hamster (OP)

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10/02/2012 03:46 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
So one more name to add to the list of hundreds of thousands of people you truthtards think were involved.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


What's the name of the person involved?
Apollo astronauts couldn't have passed through Van Allen's Belt. Van Allen wore suspenders.
all_the_kings_horses
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10/02/2012 03:48 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
The OP is completely off base on why Massoud was taken out.

It was prep for 9/11 to be sure. But it was a move by al Qaeda/Taliban to weaken the opposition in Afghanistan. They did not want Massoud as a US ally against the Taliban. They knew the US would get involved militarily after the attacks. Al Qaeda has stated their goal is to involve the US in conflicts across the globe to drain our treasury and weaken us.

Massoud would have been a powerful US ally and would have led to unifying Afghanistan. The Taliban and al Qaeda used the blueprint we gave them in the 1980s to bog down the Soviet forces in an unwinnable conflict against us.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288758

Conspiracy Theorists are more about biased conjectures presented as truth, using facts coerced to support consp-theo's belief system. Unbiased will consider whatever facts and change their belief system accordingly, not sticking to a rigid unchangable belief system.

So according to OP, Massoud fought against Soviet an Taliban. And Taliban as his enemy, wasn't supposed to take him out (You must love Taliban, they're such compassionate enemy), only Neocons would do that coz Massoud was a principled un-puppet-able man and neocons wanted a puppet. Ok, according to OP, Taliban was creation of CIA in 1980s, probably Mossad too, or Zionists or Illuminati, take your pick. So, Taliban was controlled by CIA at the highest level. The recent Taliban raid on NATO base in Helmand must be CIA's wonderful work too if you want to retain the storyline of Taliban is CIA's robots. Non conspiracists would be wondering, if the CIA/Mossad/Zionist/Illuminati Gods has created and controlled the Taliban, why then were they fighting the Taliban till now? Why not just disbanded the group if you as evil neocons has successfully placed your puppets on the throne of afghanistan? Hey, if I was the supposed evil Neocons, I would want a Massoud, someone who, according to OP, can garnered coalition of various tribes. If I wanted my supposed oil pipeline safe, I'd rather negotiate with a Mossoud than installed a so called puppet who can't keep the country secure.

All this unproven fact of "Massoud was killed because he blocked Neocons plan" is based on the contention of OP, which is nothing more than a conjecture worshipped as truth.


Now the following is fact, not conjecture, fact that can be checked:

[link to abcnews.go.com]

George Bush only played golf 24 times in his 2 terms as President.

King Obama is well past 100 times in less than 4 years.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5715803


There positively was a conspiracy to kill John F Kennedy...that's a fact of history ...determined by a group even you would believe....The House select Committee on December 29, 1978. So your little rant against conspiracies is ill aimed. Numerous conspiracies have been confirmed in every corner of society.
Thor's Hamster (OP)

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10/02/2012 04:29 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
The OP is completely off base on why Massoud was taken out.

It was prep for 9/11 to be sure. But it was a move by al Qaeda/Taliban to weaken the opposition in Afghanistan. They did not want Massoud as a US ally against the Taliban. They knew the US would get involved militarily after the attacks. Al Qaeda has stated their goal is to involve the US in conflicts across the globe to drain our treasury and weaken us.

Massoud would have been a powerful US ally and would have led to unifying Afghanistan. The Taliban and al Qaeda used the blueprint we gave them in the 1980s to bog down the Soviet forces in an unwinnable conflict against us.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288758

Conspiracy Theorists are more about biased conjectures presented as truth, using facts coerced to support consp-theo's belief system. Unbiased will consider whatever facts and change their belief system accordingly, not sticking to a rigid unchangable belief system.

So according to OP, Massoud fought against Soviet an Taliban. And Taliban as his enemy, wasn't supposed to take him out (You must love Taliban, they're such compassionate enemy), only Neocons would do that coz Massoud was a principled un-puppet-able man and neocons wanted a puppet. Ok, according to OP, Taliban was creation of CIA in 1980s, probably Mossad too, or Zionists or Illuminati, take your pick. So, Taliban was controlled by CIA at the highest level. The recent Taliban raid on NATO base in Helmand must be CIA's wonderful work too if you want to retain the storyline of Taliban is CIA's robots. Non conspiracists would be wondering, if the CIA/Mossad/Zionist/Illuminati Gods has created and controlled the Taliban, why then were they fighting the Taliban till now? Why not just disbanded the group if you as evil neocons has successfully placed your puppets on the throne of afghanistan? Hey, if I was the supposed evil Neocons, I would want a Massoud, someone who, according to OP, can garnered coalition of various tribes. If I wanted my supposed oil pipeline safe, I'd rather negotiate with a Mossoud than installed a so called puppet who can't keep the country secure.

All this unproven fact of "Massoud was killed because he blocked Neocons plan" is based on the contention of OP, which is nothing more than a conjecture worshipped as truth.


Now the following is fact, not conjecture, fact that can be checked:

[link to abcnews.go.com]

George Bush only played golf 24 times in his 2 terms as President.

King Obama is well past 100 times in less than 4 years.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5715803


Ah, I can really sink my teeth into this one. :)

First, I follow the evidence wherever it leads, regardless of the destination. Why would anyone want to believe that their government had a part in allowing 9/11 to happen and preventing a truly independent investigation from occurring afterward? I can assure you, I don't. But the facts, if one bothers to look (which most don't) are there. You know what's interesting? When discussing 9/11 with people, those who know the LEAST regarding the facts of 9/11, the events and personalities surrounding it, the major countries and organizations at play, and the details and evidence,....those who know the LEAST about 9/11 are the ones who believe the government's (and obedient and complicit media's) "official" account of 9/11. Conversely, those who are in possession of the facts, events surrounding 9/11, the personalities, organizations and nations at play, etc......the people who are in possession of the facts regarding 9/11 don't believe the official story. They can't. If you know the facts, it's impossible to believe the official story. The feeble-minded will do no research, and simply yield to the government's "official" story for their defense. Talk about intellectually lazy; not to mention disingenuous.

Second, yes, Massoud fought against both the Soviet occupation and the Taliban's oppressive regime. You say, "Wasn't the Taliban supposed to take him out?" Sure. But why did they wait 5 years to do it? And 2 days before 9/11? Wow, the timing! Weigh that against the timing for the American agenda. Which is more likely? If you say the Taliban being the perpetrator of his assassination, you're being disingenuous and have not taken off YOUR blinders nor abandoned YOUR preconceived notions. Massoud's "usefulness" (I hate to use that word, because it dehumanizes him, but that's how strategists see people on the "grand chessboard", to quote Zbigniew Brzezinski) was utilized by America to weaken the Taliban for as long as possible up to 9/11/01. Then he was gotten rid of, when his "usefulness" was over. After 9/11, Massoud would present an obstacle to American ambitions for domination of Afghanistan.

Third, you say the Taliban was a creation of the CIA? Haven't we been told that "al Qaeda" was the CIA's creation, and that "al Qaeda" and the Taliban are separate entities? We've been beaten over the head by our brainwashers, er...i mean government spokespeople and media telling us that the Taliban and "al Qaeda" are separate and unique entities. "Al Qaeda" is, we're told, a loose, extra-national organization; whereas the Taliban were the unique governing body of Afghanistan, having taken control of Kabul, and dominating in the south of the country; it's heartland being Kandahar. So, apples and oranges.

Also (and this ties in with point #3 just above), since WWII, it seems to me wars are not fought to be won (in the traditional sense), but wars are fought to make certain people a lot of money. Vietnam and Afghanistan shine as examples of that. What's the objective in Afghanistan? How will we know when we've won? What will constitute victory? Why are these questions not answered? Reason: Because too many people are making too much money. Whether it's western oil companies, multinational mining conglomerates, private "defense" (read: offense) contractors, the military industrial complex, etc....too many powerful entities are making too much money. In the case of Vietnam, aka the "Helicopter War", President Lyndon Johnson had been a Senator from Texas. Bell Helicopters was headquartered in Texas. You don't think that played into political motivations? Afghanistan is awash in mineral resources -- lithium, gold, not to mention the world's largest opium crop, and the path of a very potentially lucrative oil pipeline.

Fourth, you say that you'd rather deal with Massoud in a post-Taliban government in Afghanistan, than deal with a leader (Hamid Karzai) who can't keep the country secure. Either you didn't read what I wrote in my above posts or you don't seem to understand. Ahmad Shah Massoud is a proud, charismatic, courageous tribal leader whose only ambition is to unite, via coalitions, the various tribes of Afghanistan, securing a more or less peaceful existence for the people of Afghanistan. He wasn't interested in money, or titles, etc., because he knew that to accept those from America would make him beholden to America. He couldn't be bought, to put it bluntly. He was a rare breed. That's why, I believe (and the evidence strongly suggests) he was murdered by "western interests", let's say. Incidentally, when someone says that the "CIA killed someone", that doesn't mean some white American with an Ivy League education goes over to Afghanistan and plays James Bond. People are hired. People are hired to hire other people who know other people who will hire still other people. It's a complex, intricate web. You can never be sure when you're being played by a double agent, or even if you are, albeit unknowingly, a double agent yourself in someone else's larger, more complex agenda (Think: "al Qaeda").

No one is "worshipping" anything. It's merely food for thought. Obviously, I believe very strongly that Ahmad Shah Massoud was assassinated on orders from the West, and I have provided a good deal of, albeit, circumstantial evidence for that contention. It fits. And it fits the pattern. The timing is perfect. It's all too "tidy", as they say in the South.

And lastly, the fact that you added that little tidbit about President Obama's golfing, comparing it with President Bush's golfing, tells me that you're a Bush/Republicans-can-do-no-wrong robot, and you wouldn't accept evidence otherwise if it hit you in the face. You're taking my contention that Ahmad Shah Massoud was assassinated on orders from western intelligence (albeit a small fraction) as a slap at Bush, because he was President at the time. It's SO far beyond politics. If you're still playing the Left-Right game, history is going to leave you in the dust with tire marks on your back.
Apollo astronauts couldn't have passed through Van Allen's Belt. Van Allen wore suspenders.
Thor's Hamster (OP)

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10/02/2012 04:34 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
The OP is completely off base on why Massoud was taken out.

It was prep for 9/11 to be sure. But it was a move by al Qaeda/Taliban to weaken the opposition in Afghanistan. They did not want Massoud as a US ally against the Taliban. They knew the US would get involved militarily after the attacks. Al Qaeda has stated their goal is to involve the US in conflicts across the globe to drain our treasury and weaken us.

Massoud would have been a powerful US ally and would have led to unifying Afghanistan. The Taliban and al Qaeda used the blueprint we gave them in the 1980s to bog down the Soviet forces in an unwinnable conflict against us.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288758

Conspiracy Theorists are more about biased conjectures presented as truth, using facts coerced to support consp-theo's belief system. Unbiased will consider whatever facts and change their belief system accordingly, not sticking to a rigid unchangable belief system.

So according to OP, Massoud fought against Soviet an Taliban. And Taliban as his enemy, wasn't supposed to take him out (You must love Taliban, they're such compassionate enemy), only Neocons would do that coz Massoud was a principled un-puppet-able man and neocons wanted a puppet. Ok, according to OP, Taliban was creation of CIA in 1980s, probably Mossad too, or Zionists or Illuminati, take your pick. So, Taliban was controlled by CIA at the highest level. The recent Taliban raid on NATO base in Helmand must be CIA's wonderful work too if you want to retain the storyline of Taliban is CIA's robots. Non conspiracists would be wondering, if the CIA/Mossad/Zionist/Illuminati Gods has created and controlled the Taliban, why then were they fighting the Taliban till now? Why not just disbanded the group if you as evil neocons has successfully placed your puppets on the throne of afghanistan? Hey, if I was the supposed evil Neocons, I would want a Massoud, someone who, according to OP, can garnered coalition of various tribes. If I wanted my supposed oil pipeline safe, I'd rather negotiate with a Mossoud than installed a so called puppet who can't keep the country secure.

All this unproven fact of "Massoud was killed because he blocked Neocons plan" is based on the contention of OP, which is nothing more than a conjecture worshipped as truth.


Now the following is fact, not conjecture, fact that can be checked:

[link to abcnews.go.com]

George Bush only played golf 24 times in his 2 terms as President.

King Obama is well past 100 times in less than 4 years.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5715803


There positively was a conspiracy to kill John F Kennedy...that's a fact of history ...determined by a group even you would believe....The House select Committee on December 29, 1978. So your little rant against conspiracies is ill aimed. Numerous conspiracies have been confirmed in every corner of society.
 Quoting: all_the_kings_horses 23725903


Absolutely correct. There is SO much in the JFK assassination case with regard to the lies, coverups, and looking at plain, clear evidence for one thing, and saying the complete opposite. Just for starters, look at the "kill shot" in the Zapruder film. It came from the front/right. It hits Kennedy's head in the front right and his head snaps back and to the left. A first grader can see this. How is a guy on the 6th floor of the Book Depository Building (which, at the moment of the "kill shot" was directly behind JFK's limousine by about 75 yards) going to shoot JFK in the right/front of his skull? LOL I better stop there. This could turn into a whole other thread.

And regarding conspiracies, you're correct. Every day in American courts, people are tried on and convicted of "conspiracy". How the word got to be a term used to discredit evidence and theories is beyond me. Good psychological operation. My hat's off to you, Mr. Edward Bernays, wherever you are. ;)
Apollo astronauts couldn't have passed through Van Allen's Belt. Van Allen wore suspenders.
Thor's Hamster (OP)

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10/02/2012 04:58 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
bump
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Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 05:25 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
Conspiracy Theorists are more about biased conjectures presented as truth, using facts coerced to support consp-theo's belief system. Unbiased will consider whatever facts and change their belief system accordingly, not sticking to a rigid unchangable belief system.

So according to OP, Massoud fought against Soviet an Taliban. And Taliban as his enemy, wasn't supposed to take him out (You must love Taliban, they're such compassionate enemy), only Neocons would do that coz Massoud was a principled un-puppet-able man and neocons wanted a puppet. Ok, according to OP, Taliban was creation of CIA in 1980s, probably Mossad too, or Zionists or Illuminati, take your pick. So, Taliban was controlled by CIA at the highest level. The recent Taliban raid on NATO base in Helmand must be CIA's wonderful work too if you want to retain the storyline of Taliban is CIA's robots. Non conspiracists would be wondering, if the CIA/Mossad/Zionist/Illuminati Gods has created and controlled the Taliban, why then were they fighting the Taliban till now? Why not just disbanded the group if you as evil neocons has successfully placed your puppets on the throne of afghanistan? Hey, if I was the supposed evil Neocons, I would want a Massoud, someone who, according to OP, can garnered coalition of various tribes. If I wanted my supposed oil pipeline safe, I'd rather negotiate with a Mossoud than installed a so called puppet who can't keep the country secure.

All this unproven fact of "Massoud was killed because he blocked Neocons plan" is based on the contention of OP, which is nothing more than a conjecture worshipped as truth.


Now the following is fact, not conjecture, fact that can be checked:

[link to abcnews.go.com]

George Bush only played golf 24 times in his 2 terms as President.

King Obama is well past 100 times in less than 4 years.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5715803


I have read every post in this thread.
Lots of very good posts, and food for thought from many posters, the OP not least of all.

However i think this one i have quoted above is the most important post here.

I think OP would do well to re-read it with an open mind.

Paying particular note to the snentance "Unbiased will consider whatever facts and change their belief system accordingly, not sticking to a rigid unchangable belief system."

OP has done a great job in creating an interesting THEORY behind events.
But maybe needs to remember it is only a THEORY.

Op seems very intelligent, and this is why i urge him to re-read the above quoted post, this time with an open mind to the message behind it - that being ( IMO )... - NO ONE CAN TRULY KNOWS WHAT HAPPENS AND WHY - AND IT IS VERY EASY TO BLIND YOURSELF WITH ASSUMPTIONS AND CLOSE YOUR MIND WITH ATTACHMENT TO THEORIES AND BELIEFS


OP - it pays massive dividends to listen to critics, really listen to them, to what they are ACTUALLY saying, not what you THINK they are saying.

No one else will save you from the pitfalls of your assumptions and beliefs better, no one else helps open open your eyes more, no one else helps open your mind more.

Its just a bitch that they are SOOOOO DAMN hard to properly listen to, to really listen to.

But its the ones that piss you off the most that are the ones you should pay most attention to ( form my experience).
:)


<condescending preach over, returns to reading poo threads and uncle threads>
Thor's Hamster (OP)

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10/02/2012 05:46 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
Conspiracy Theorists are more about biased conjectures presented as truth, using facts coerced to support consp-theo's belief system. Unbiased will consider whatever facts and change their belief system accordingly, not sticking to a rigid unchangable belief system.

So according to OP, Massoud fought against Soviet an Taliban. And Taliban as his enemy, wasn't supposed to take him out (You must love Taliban, they're such compassionate enemy), only Neocons would do that coz Massoud was a principled un-puppet-able man and neocons wanted a puppet. Ok, according to OP, Taliban was creation of CIA in 1980s, probably Mossad too, or Zionists or Illuminati, take your pick. So, Taliban was controlled by CIA at the highest level. The recent Taliban raid on NATO base in Helmand must be CIA's wonderful work too if you want to retain the storyline of Taliban is CIA's robots. Non conspiracists would be wondering, if the CIA/Mossad/Zionist/Illuminati Gods has created and controlled the Taliban, why then were they fighting the Taliban till now? Why not just disbanded the group if you as evil neocons has successfully placed your puppets on the throne of afghanistan? Hey, if I was the supposed evil Neocons, I would want a Massoud, someone who, according to OP, can garnered coalition of various tribes. If I wanted my supposed oil pipeline safe, I'd rather negotiate with a Mossoud than installed a so called puppet who can't keep the country secure.

All this unproven fact of "Massoud was killed because he blocked Neocons plan" is based on the contention of OP, which is nothing more than a conjecture worshipped as truth.


Now the following is fact, not conjecture, fact that can be checked:

[link to abcnews.go.com]

George Bush only played golf 24 times in his 2 terms as President.

King Obama is well past 100 times in less than 4 years.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5715803


I have read every post in this thread.
Lots of very good posts, and food for thought from many posters, the OP not least of all.

However i think this one i have quoted above is the most important post here.

I think OP would do well to re-read it with an open mind.

Paying particular note to the snentance "Unbiased will consider whatever facts and change their belief system accordingly, not sticking to a rigid unchangable belief system."

OP has done a great job in creating an interesting THEORY behind events.
But maybe needs to remember it is only a THEORY.

Op seems very intelligent, and this is why i urge him to re-read the above quoted post, this time with an open mind to the message behind it - that being ( IMO )... - NO ONE CAN TRULY KNOWS WHAT HAPPENS AND WHY - AND IT IS VERY EASY TO BLIND YOURSELF WITH ASSUMPTIONS AND CLOSE YOUR MIND WITH ATTACHMENT TO THEORIES AND BELIEFS


OP - it pays massive dividends to listen to critics, really listen to them, to what they are ACTUALLY saying, not what you THINK they are saying.

No one else will save you from the pitfalls of your assumptions and beliefs better, no one else helps open open your eyes more, no one else helps open your mind more.

Its just a bitch that they are SOOOOO DAMN hard to properly listen to, to really listen to.

But its the ones that piss you off the most that are the ones you should pay most attention to ( form my experience).
:)


<condescending preach over, returns to reading poo threads and uncle threads>
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18392317


LOL "returns to reading poo threads and uncle threads" LOL!!!!

Good post. Thanks. I agree. I guess I come from the "school" where after you gather the data, and weigh the likely possibilities and scenarios, then you make your case for what you think most likely occurred. Maybe it sounds like I think I know what happened for certain. I apologize if that's how I came across. I certainly DO believe very strongly that it happened the way I explained in this thread, but I don't know for certain. I simply tried to make the best case I could for why I think it occurred the way it seems to me that it did.

I'm all for constructive criticism. I'm not one who listens to or reads or watches only the views I already have (aka preaching to, or being preach to by, the choir). I seek to gather as much evidence as possible, no matter which "side" it supports. I've traveled to much of this part of the world, partly in a search for as much "truth" (read: data) as I'm able to attain.

Having said that, though, if someone presents an opposing view, be careful not to assume that I disagree with it only because it goes against what I think happened. Using the example of the above highlighted post, I do not concur with the poster's conclusions, and further (and I don't mean this to be personally derogatory in any way), I don't think that poster has spent a fraction of the time I have researching these events. Which isn't to say he can't be right. He could. But I don't agree, and I tried to lay out as plainly as I could, my reasons why. I fully understand that his version (which is the "official" version of Massoud's assassination) could be true. I just happen to think it's not, because of the preponderance of, admittedly, circumstantial evidence I laid out in my posts.

Yes, my post was a "theory", but based on quite a bit of circumstantial evidence. His, too, remember, was only a theory...and I don't believe the circumstantial evidence for that "official" theory is as strong as the theory I put forth. Look at all I wrote in this thread. That's a lot of information. And I understand quantity doesn't equal quality. But I'm drawing upon a lot of data. As I said before, respectfully, I don't believe the other poster is drawing on nearly a fraction of the data I've drawn upon.

But I appreciate your post. You got that across very well, without being preachy. I appreciate it. :) I think the more these points get discussed, the closer we come to THE truth. :)
Apollo astronauts couldn't have passed through Van Allen's Belt. Van Allen wore suspenders.
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 05:55 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
Good guys are always murdered by bad guys. Because good guys are the most major of threats to bad guys.
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 06:01 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
I find it fake with millions to borselles nucleaire plant after they noticed japan.

And well everything sounds fake smart.
Thor's Hamster (OP)

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10/02/2012 06:04 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
Remember (as the official version goes), America had no beef against the Taliban EXCEPT that they wouldn't hand over Osama bin Laden after 9/11. The Taliban government's strict suppression of women's rights and its destruction of pre-Islamic archaeology (like the giant Buddhas carved into the mountainside) notwithstanding, our alleged beef with the Taliban government in Afghanistan only came about as a result of their refusal to extradite Osama bin Laden to the United States.

As I laid out in my earlier posts, many other much more important (read: $$$) considerations were at play -- the potentially very lucrative oil pipeline running from the Caspian Basin through Afghanistan, through southern Pakistan to the Arabian Sea; the very lucrative opium production; the abundance of valuable minerals; and the padding of pockets of some very wealthy constituents -- the military industrial complex, including private contractors like Blackwater or Xe, or whatever the hell Eric Prince has decided to call his G.I. Joe operation now.

The EXCUSE to topple the Taliban was their refusal to hand over bin Laden. But the threat of "carpeting you with bombs" (as opposed to "carpeting you with gold" if they had agreed to the oil pipeline deal) was made by American government to the Taliban government 3 years prior, BEFORE we were concerned with the Taliban playing host to Bin Laden.

So we can see, by gathering all the data in the years preceding 9/11, that America had a vested interest ($$$) in seeing the Taliban government toppled....long before it became our concern that Osama bin Laden sought refuge in Afghanistan under Taliban rule.

Another bit of circumstantial evidence is that Halliburton, while Dick Cheney was CEO in the 1990s, drew up a report that stated that the Caspian Basin was the next Saudi Arabia, with regard to the amount of oil reserves it held. So the pipeline through Afghanistan had been on the American radar ($$$) for several years (since the mid-1990s). One of the first acts as Vice President in February 2001, Cheney held the secret energy meetings. Was he, as most astute and informed people think, preparing American energy companies for their coming opportunity in Afghanistan? I think that's a fairly reasonable (to put it mildly) conclusion to draw....especially considering the level of secrecy Cheney covered those meetings in. As I mentioned in a previous post, the case to release the minutes of those secret energy meetings in February 2001 went to the Supreme Court (after Cheney went duck hunting with Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia in Louisiana several weeks before the Court's decision. WHAT CONFLICT OF INTEREST?! lol), and the Supreme Court ruled that the minutes from the meetings did NOT have to be made public, ruling in favor of "Tricky Dick". (Sorry, had to lol).

And lastly, if we went into Afghanistan merely to topple the Taliban, and in the process, get Bin Laden, both of those objectives have been met (allegedly). Why are we still there? What's the objective? What will constitute "victory"? How will we know when we've won? No one can explain what we're doing there. It's incredible.
Apollo astronauts couldn't have passed through Van Allen's Belt. Van Allen wore suspenders.
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 06:06 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
I believe Chandra Levy stumbled upon some of this information. The "official" outcome of her fate is as bogus as the "official" story of 9-11.
stormer

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10/02/2012 06:07 AM

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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
I saw this assasination in a movie,can't remember which one but it was a sad event indeed.
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery - Bob Marley
haiku
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10/02/2012 06:11 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
Pinable in my opinion.
Thor's Hamster (OP)

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10/02/2012 06:15 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
I believe Chandra Levy stumbled upon some of this information. The "official" outcome of her fate is as bogus as the "official" story of 9-11.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24522527


Interesting. I suspect she was murdered, also, for reasons other than what we've been told. The "official" story is that she was randomly murdered while jogging in Rock Creek Park. Again, it was all too "tidy". She'd had an affair with Rep. Gary Condit (R) from CA., and she winds up murdered. Hmmmm... Sure, the official story COULD be the truth. But there are far too many attentuating circumstances to accept the official story at face value, especially when affairs with politicians are involved. Digressing for a moment, she was pretty, and had great tits, wow! (Sorry, I'm only human :)).

I recall the big stories in the summer of 2001 were...

*Chandra Levy (ex-aide to Rep. Gary Condit (R) CA) went missing.

*U.S. spy plane collides with Chinese jet fighter, forcing an emergency landing for our spy plane, and, I think, 8 U.S. military personnel were held by the Chinese for questioning for about a week, before being released. The plane was not released, or at least not until MUCH later, after the Chinese had reverse-eingineered its technology.

*Shark attacks in the waters off Florida (yawn lol).

*Airline on-time performance.

Those were the four main topics the media jumped on that summer of 2001, just prior to 9/11.
Apollo astronauts couldn't have passed through Van Allen's Belt. Van Allen wore suspenders.
Thor's Hamster (OP)

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10/02/2012 06:18 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
I believe Chandra Levy stumbled upon some of this information. The "official" outcome of her fate is as bogus as the "official" story of 9-11.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24522527


Interesting. I suspect she was murdered, also, for reasons other than what we've been told. The "official" story is that she was randomly murdered while jogging in Rock Creek Park. Again, it was all too "tidy". She'd had an affair with Rep. Gary Condit (R) from CA., and she winds up murdered. Hmmmm... Sure, the official story COULD be the truth. But there are far too many attentuating circumstances to accept the official story at face value, especially when affairs with politicians are involved. Digressing for a moment, she was pretty, and had great tits, wow! (Sorry, I'm only human :)).

I recall the big stories in the summer of 2001 were...

*Chandra Levy (ex-aide to Rep. Gary Condit (R) CA) went missing.

*U.S. spy plane collides with Chinese jet fighter, forcing an emergency landing for our spy plane, and, I think, 8 U.S. military personnel were held by the Chinese for questioning for about a week, before being released. The plane was not released, or at least not until MUCH later, after the Chinese had reverse-eingineered its technology.

*Shark attacks in the waters off Florida (yawn lol).

*Airline on-time performance.

Those were the four main topics the media jumped on that summer of 2001, just prior to 9/11.
 Quoting: Thor's Hamster


Speaking of affairs with politicians, it occurred to me...

There seems to be a preponderance of jewish girls having affairs with prominent Gentile Americans...

*Monica Lewinsky = Bill Clinton.

*Chandra Levy = Representative Gary Condit.

*Rachel Uchitel = Tiger Woods.

What's up with that??? And those are just 3 off the top of my head. Are we seeing some type of Sayanim operation? Not saying that we are. Just wondering.
Apollo astronauts couldn't have passed through Van Allen's Belt. Van Allen wore suspenders.
Thor's Hamster (OP)

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10/02/2012 06:19 AM
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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
I saw this assasination in a movie,can't remember which one but it was a sad event indeed.
 Quoting: stormer


I'd definitely watch that movie if you wind up recalling the name. Ahmad Shah Massoud's life would certainly make an interesting and entertaining film. He lived through some very interesting times, and was taken way too soon.
Apollo astronauts couldn't have passed through Van Allen's Belt. Van Allen wore suspenders.
Thor's Hamster (OP)

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Re: PRE-9/11 ASSASSINATION: An Overlooked and VERY Important Event in the 9/11 Chronology. MUST READ!!!
Pinable in my opinion.
 Quoting: haiku 24522527


Thanks :)
Apollo astronauts couldn't have passed through Van Allen's Belt. Van Allen wore suspenders.

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