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IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????

 
Keep2theCode

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10/02/2012 07:50 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
There are only 2 ways to prove it was without error:

1) You had to be there when it was written to verify it's authenticity yourself.

2) You are omniscient.

You cannot attest to either.

Have you ever watched the History Channel series called Banned From The Bible? Where are all the missing contents over the centuries? Who removed them and what are the implications?

Can you read a book if there are chapters missing?
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


I'm sure you've done enough research of both sides of the issue to know that neither side has an air-tight argument. I'd also like to think that you understand the need for a forensic approach to ancient texts, the practice of textual criticism. And knowing that, surely you understand that when the Bible is compared with other ancient documents, it enjoys a significant advantage in terms of number of ms. and close extant copies.

There was a man named Robert "Dick" Wilson, who could read the NT in 9 different languages by the time he graduated college. He then spent the next 15 years learning 70 languages and dialects that had any bearing on the text of the OT. The 15 years after that were spent doing research, and the final 15 years writing about it. I defy anyone to say that this man was not an expert. And in his opinion, the text of the OT is so well-established that there can be no rational case made against it.

For the NT, as you surely know, we have over 24,000 copies in various languages, going back to within about a hundred years of the originals. This, of course, is unprecedented for any ancient text.

So while we don't have the original hand-written pages, we have to the best of scholarly ability built a very strong case for the Bible as we have it today being the most well-preserved and accurate of all ancient texts. This is not just a wish or an assertion but a demonstrable fact.

As for "banned from the Bible", have you never considered the possibility that some texts were thrown in the trash because that's where they belonged? If they didn't meet the stringent criteria for inclusion, they were discarded, and there is no need to scream "conspiracy!" about it. The OT was firmly established before the Council of Nicea ever met, and the NT only had a few minor points of disagreement--- certainly nothing affecting the gospel or the teachings to any significant degree.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Morganite

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10/02/2012 07:51 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Does the Bible say in what shape Jesus will return? Will he be born as a baby on earth again?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17944689


Jesus will return as a man of about age 33 just the age he was after he resurrected and ascended back into heaven.

Acts 1:6-11

And when Jesus had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

morganite
Jesus Christ is the way

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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
OH MY GOD, SUSIE, WHAT IF YOU'RE RIGHT!!!

Jesus returns tomorrow, and then everyone on earth with remember what you posted on this here website and point to you and say in your honor "She knew! SHE KNEW!" While people were being lifted off the planet, and whisked away to heaven - they'll know that YOU were right!

Oh, glory be! YOU were right! YOU! WOW!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1500023


It's not about being right, it is about GOD's Church being ready.....


For the Church is to be called out and ready...

Not about me..All about JESUS CHRIST..OUR LAMB OF GOD!


Maranatha Jesus!!!

 Quoting: christian


Correct!
Morganite

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10/02/2012 07:57 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Like a knight in shining armour... at the exact moment we needed him... so very glad to see you Keep2theCode.cheer
morganite
ANHEDONIC

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10/02/2012 08:01 PM

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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
There are only 2 ways to prove it was without error:

1) You had to be there when it was written to verify it's authenticity yourself.

2) You are omniscient.

You cannot attest to either.

Have you ever watched the History Channel series called Banned From The Bible? Where are all the missing contents over the centuries? Who removed them and what are the implications?

Can you read a book if there are chapters missing?
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


I'm sure you've done enough research of both sides of the issue to know that neither side has an air-tight argument. I'd also like to think that you understand the need for a forensic approach to ancient texts, the practice of textual criticism. And knowing that, surely you understand that when the Bible is compared with other ancient documents, it enjoys a significant advantage in terms of number of ms. and close extant copies.

There was a man named Robert "Dick" Wilson, who could read the NT in 9 different languages by the time he graduated college. He then spent the next 15 years learning 70 languages and dialects that had any bearing on the text of the OT. The 15 years after that were spent doing research, and the final 15 years writing about it. I defy anyone to say that this man was not an expert. And in his opinion, the text of the OT is so well-established that there can be no rational case made against it.

For the NT, as you surely know, we have over 24,000 copies in various languages, going back to within about a hundred years of the originals. This, of course, is unprecedented for any ancient text.

So while we don't have the original hand-written pages, we have to the best of scholarly ability built a very strong case for the Bible as we have it today being the most well-preserved and accurate of all ancient texts. This is not just a wish or an assertion but a demonstrable fact.

As for "banned from the Bible", have you never considered the possibility that some texts were thrown in the trash because that's where they belonged? If they didn't meet the stringent criteria for inclusion, they were discarded, and there is no need to scream "conspiracy!" about it. The OT was firmly established before the Council of Nicea ever met, and the NT only had a few minor points of disagreement--- certainly nothing affecting the gospel or the teachings to any significant degree.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Well it seems clear then where we disagree or differ in that your standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence (which only requires 51% vs 49% at minimum) whereby mine is beyond a reasonable doubt.

If I am going to accept a text written/transcribed by men as the divine 'word of God', can you explain why it would be unreasonable for me to utilize a standard of proof that is known as beyond a reasonable doubt, as opposed to preponderance of the evidence which only requires that one stated case appear more plausible than another?

Why were any texts thrown in the trash if they were all alleged to be inspired by the 'word of God'? Why did they deserve to be discarded? More importantly, exactly WHOSE 'stringent criteria' was it that determined these texts belong in the trash? What were this individuals motives or incentives for eliminating certain texts? How many different individuals manipulated the original contents throughout time?

Lastly, how can we verify that a written text was indeed channeled from 'God'? How can we prove that other than having faith that we were not deceived or lied to? In my opinion, one could not prove the authors of the bible were indeed channeling 'God' anymore than you could prove or disprove that your neighbor is channeling 'God' if your neighbor made the claim that he or she is doing so. There is no way to test the authenticity nor the origin of the message, other than blind trust/faith.

It is for these reasons that I look to other methods for guidance in this life, ones that exist outside of the influence of religious texts that I cannot verify the authenticity of and that I cannot verify the integrity of the authors who allegedly wrote them.

I will never get sufficient answers to the questions posed above that would satisfy my concerns beyond a reasonable doubt.

Personally I don't have any issues with people choosing to subscribe to religions and religious texts. It does not offend me on a personal level or anything. However I just don't like to see people limiting themselves or confining their thoughts based on their accepted belief systems which they did not play an active role in creating. In that sense I see it as disempowering and restricting.

peace

Last Edited by ANHEDONIC on 10/02/2012 08:11 PM

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Jesus Christ is the way

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10/02/2012 08:08 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
There are only 2 ways to prove it was without error:

1) You had to be there when it was written to verify it's authenticity yourself.

2) You are omniscient.

You cannot attest to either.

Have you ever watched the History Channel series called Banned From The Bible? Where are all the missing contents over the centuries? Who removed them and what are the implications?

Can you read a book if there are chapters missing?
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


I'm sure you've done enough research of both sides of the issue to know that neither side has an air-tight argument. I'd also like to think that you understand the need for a forensic approach to ancient texts, the practice of textual criticism. And knowing that, surely you understand that when the Bible is compared with other ancient documents, it enjoys a significant advantage in terms of number of ms. and close extant copies.

There was a man named Robert "Dick" Wilson, who could read the NT in 9 different languages by the time he graduated college. He then spent the next 15 years learning 70 languages and dialects that had any bearing on the text of the OT. The 15 years after that were spent doing research, and the final 15 years writing about it. I defy anyone to say that this man was not an expert. And in his opinion, the text of the OT is so well-established that there can be no rational case made against it.

For the NT, as you surely know, we have over 24,000 copies in various languages, going back to within about a hundred years of the originals. This, of course, is unprecedented for any ancient text.

So while we don't have the original hand-written pages, we have to the best of scholarly ability built a very strong case for the Bible as we have it today being the most well-preserved and accurate of all ancient texts. This is not just a wish or an assertion but a demonstrable fact.

As for "banned from the Bible", have you never considered the possibility that some texts were thrown in the trash because that's where they belonged? If they didn't meet the stringent criteria for inclusion, they were discarded, and there is no need to scream "conspiracy!" about it. The OT was firmly established before the Council of Nicea ever met, and the NT only had a few minor points of disagreement--- certainly nothing affecting the gospel or the teachings to any significant degree.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Well it seems clear then where we disagree or differ in that your standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence (which only requires 51% vs 49%) whereby mine is beyond a reasonable doubt.

If I am going to accept a text written/transcribed by men as the divine 'word of God', can you explain why it would be unreasonable for me to utilize a standard of proof that is known as beyond a reasonable doubt, as opposed to preponderance of the evidence which only requires that one stated case appear more plausible than another?

Why were any texts thrown in the trash if they were all alleged to be inspired by the 'word of God'? Why did they deserve to be discarded? More importantly, exactly WHOSE 'stringent criteria' was it that determined these texts belong in the trash? What were this individuals motives or incentives for eliminating certain texts? How many different individuals manipulated the original contents throughout time?

Lastly, how can we verify that a written text was indeed channeled from 'God'? How can we prove that other than having faith that we were not deceived or lied to? In my opinion, one could not prove the authors of the bible were indeed channeling 'God' anymore than you could prove or disprove that your neighbor is channeling 'God' if your neighbor made the claim that he or she is doing so. There is no way to test the authenticity nor the origin of the message, other than blind trust/faith.

It is for these reasons that I look to other methods for guidance in this life, ones that exist outside of the influence of religious texts that I cannot verify the authenticity of and that I cannot verify the integrity of the authors who allegedly wrote them. I will never get sufficient answers to the questions above that would satisfy my burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC

Pray without ceasing and with a contrite heart, and I can assure you from my personal experience, any doubts you have in the truth of the word will go away.
Morganite

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10/02/2012 08:12 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Pray without ceasing and with a contrite heart, and I can assure you from my personal experience, any doubts you have in the truth of the word will go away.
 Quoting: Jesus Christ is the way


bump Good advice...esp. the bold part. And I'll add, read the links I gave you in the other thread...Links abound on the net providing ample proof that God preserved his message without error beyond a reasonable doubt.
morganite
ANHEDONIC

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10/02/2012 08:15 PM

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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
There are only 2 ways to prove it was without error:

1) You had to be there when it was written to verify it's authenticity yourself.

2) You are omniscient.

You cannot attest to either.

Have you ever watched the History Channel series called Banned From The Bible? Where are all the missing contents over the centuries? Who removed them and what are the implications?

Can you read a book if there are chapters missing?
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


I'm sure you've done enough research of both sides of the issue to know that neither side has an air-tight argument. I'd also like to think that you understand the need for a forensic approach to ancient texts, the practice of textual criticism. And knowing that, surely you understand that when the Bible is compared with other ancient documents, it enjoys a significant advantage in terms of number of ms. and close extant copies.

There was a man named Robert "Dick" Wilson, who could read the NT in 9 different languages by the time he graduated college. He then spent the next 15 years learning 70 languages and dialects that had any bearing on the text of the OT. The 15 years after that were spent doing research, and the final 15 years writing about it. I defy anyone to say that this man was not an expert. And in his opinion, the text of the OT is so well-established that there can be no rational case made against it.

For the NT, as you surely know, we have over 24,000 copies in various languages, going back to within about a hundred years of the originals. This, of course, is unprecedented for any ancient text.

So while we don't have the original hand-written pages, we have to the best of scholarly ability built a very strong case for the Bible as we have it today being the most well-preserved and accurate of all ancient texts. This is not just a wish or an assertion but a demonstrable fact.

As for "banned from the Bible", have you never considered the possibility that some texts were thrown in the trash because that's where they belonged? If they didn't meet the stringent criteria for inclusion, they were discarded, and there is no need to scream "conspiracy!" about it. The OT was firmly established before the Council of Nicea ever met, and the NT only had a few minor points of disagreement--- certainly nothing affecting the gospel or the teachings to any significant degree.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Well it seems clear then where we disagree or differ in that your standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence (which only requires 51% vs 49%) whereby mine is beyond a reasonable doubt.

If I am going to accept a text written/transcribed by men as the divine 'word of God', can you explain why it would be unreasonable for me to utilize a standard of proof that is known as beyond a reasonable doubt, as opposed to preponderance of the evidence which only requires that one stated case appear more plausible than another?

Why were any texts thrown in the trash if they were all alleged to be inspired by the 'word of God'? Why did they deserve to be discarded? More importantly, exactly WHOSE 'stringent criteria' was it that determined these texts belong in the trash? What were this individuals motives or incentives for eliminating certain texts? How many different individuals manipulated the original contents throughout time?

Lastly, how can we verify that a written text was indeed channeled from 'God'? How can we prove that other than having faith that we were not deceived or lied to? In my opinion, one could not prove the authors of the bible were indeed channeling 'God' anymore than you could prove or disprove that your neighbor is channeling 'God' if your neighbor made the claim that he or she is doing so. There is no way to test the authenticity nor the origin of the message, other than blind trust/faith.

It is for these reasons that I look to other methods for guidance in this life, ones that exist outside of the influence of religious texts that I cannot verify the authenticity of and that I cannot verify the integrity of the authors who allegedly wrote them. I will never get sufficient answers to the questions above that would satisfy my burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC

Pray without ceasing and with a contrite heart, and I can assure you from my personal experience, any doubts you have in the truth of the word will go away.
 Quoting: Jesus Christ is the way


Well I agree that the heart is the source of truth and intuition, however mine is encouraging me not to devote my consciousness to what others (not implying you) have handed me and alleged to be the 'truth'.

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
ANHEDONIC

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10/02/2012 08:17 PM

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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Pray without ceasing and with a contrite heart, and I can assure you from my personal experience, any doubts you have in the truth of the word will go away.
 Quoting: Jesus Christ is the way


bump Good advice...esp. the bold part. And I'll add, read the links I gave you in the other thread...Links abound on the net providing ample proof that God preserved his message without error beyond a reasonable doubt.
 Quoting: Morganite


Well we'll have to agree to disagree because there is no way to prove or verify the source of any information that has been channeled.


peace

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 08:17 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.


Venus and Bright Star Shine Together at Dawn Wednesday

Early-bird skywatchers on Wednesday (Oct. 3) will be treated to a rather extraordinary sight, when the most brilliant planet passes exceptionally close to one of the brightest stars in the sky.

The planet is Venus and the star is Regulus in the constellation of Leo, the Lion. The celestial pair promises to dazzle observers before dawn on Wednesday, weather permitting.

Venus is by far and away the brightest morning "star" and is currently the focal point of the eastern dawn sky.

On Wednesday morning, as viewed from the U.S. East Coast, Venus will slide as little as 7.5 minutes of arc to the south of Regulus. To give you some idea of how small this is, it is only one-fourth the apparent width of a full moon or one-eighth of a degree.

By the time Venus and Regulus have risen for the West Coast, the gap separating the two will have widened to 12 minutes of arc

[link to news.yahoo.com]
 Quoting: christian


susie, Venus and regulus are not the bright and morning star, and some of your quotes above were never from Jesus, they were added in. The Bright and Morning Star is Gabriel beloved, its a TITLE and there is but one Gabriel in each of the 700,000 universes and he is the first created being of the Michael and Mother Spirit of a new universe. He is the chief executive by Role, and THE Gabriel of OUR universe, number 611,121, contributed his DNA to the Embryo that was the body for the incarnation of the Michael here.

Everytime Venus is the morning star people come out of the walls here and post this stuff.

Venus is the morning star often has been for weeks and week now again. H
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 08:17 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Therein lies the problem because 'God' does not physically write books, men do. And as you already understand, the written word is subject to error and the inevitable influence of the human mind/ego.

Now you can claim those men channeled 'God' as they were writing those books, but you have no way to verify that or prove it other than accepting what others have told you to believe is the truth. You also cannot speak to any manipulation, censorship, translation errors, or editing that has occurred in the time since these texts were believed to be created. Therefore there is no way to verify that what you are reading today exists in its entirety as it was originally created, nor could you verify that it was the creation of a single author or the authors who were alleged to have written the material.

Under these circumstances I would encourage you to throw caution to the wind and reach your own 'truths' by looking within.
Don't let a man-made book speak for you when you are perfectly capable of finding your own answers.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Oh, but there is a way to verify and prove the Bible is without error.... Test It... Think For Yourself and examine the so called "errors". Also - Understand why the Wisest men of the ages have done their due diligence through this same process and conclude it is of Divine origin.

This Really Is The Most Significant Life/Death Conclusion That We Make...
 Quoting: Morganite


OMG the Bible is riddled with errors, additions by men etc.

As a Christian are you entitled to tell falsehoods?

However you have a great sense of humour... "the Wisest men of the ages have done their due diligence"

That is one of the funniest things I have ever read!

You were joking I hope!

lolsign
Once4All
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10/02/2012 08:21 PM

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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
OH MY GOD, SUSIE, WHAT IF YOU'RE RIGHT!!!

Jesus returns tomorrow, and then everyone on earth with remember what you posted on this here website and point to you and say in your honor "She knew! SHE KNEW!" While people were being lifted off the planet, and whisked away to heaven - they'll know that YOU were right!

Oh, glory be! YOU were right! YOU! WOW!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1500023


It's not about being right, it is about GOD's Church being ready.....


For the Church is to be called out and ready...

Not about me..All about JESUS CHRIST..OUR LAMB OF GOD!


Maranatha Jesus!!!

 Quoting: christian


5stars
cross55
John 11:35 Jesus wept.

[link to www.savemenowjesus.com]

Have you given good points today?

EVERYONE who calls upon the LORD JESUS will be saved! [Romans 10:13]


Jesus Christ will return as King of all kings and Lord of all lords. hf
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 08:24 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Faith is not fact.

I know, that's hard to believe --- you have habits of choosing whatever you want to believe and calling it fact.

Um, facts don't work that way.
Morganite

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10/02/2012 08:32 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Well we'll have to agree to disagree because there is no way to prove or verify the source of any information that has been channeled.


peace
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


We can agree to disagree but not on that basis. First just prove or verify for yourself if the information (historic, scientific,prophetic) it contains is true.

That's the most important thing you can we can do for ourselves

Then go from there to determine if it was God inspired(channeled).

Peace -



Last Edited by Morganite on 10/02/2012 08:33 PM
morganite
Morganite

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10/02/2012 08:40 PM
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No - Seriously... many wise men.... get this...

Francis Bacon... remember him?... FATHER OF THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD!... lol... I love it... the first one I googled... I love God's sense of humor.
morganite
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10/02/2012 08:41 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Jesus will NOT return until the anti christ has been in power.

Read your Bible.
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 08:43 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Jesus will NOT return until the anti christ has been in power.

Read your Bible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14091728

the antichrist is fully in control in this world, you were lied too by your churches. the world is full of powerful antichrists and the NWO Zionists certainly fit the bill.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Does the Bible say in what shape Jesus will return? Will he be born as a baby on earth again?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17944689


Jesus will return as a man of about age 33 just the age he was after he resurrected and ascended back into heaven.

Acts 1:6-11

And when Jesus had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 Quoting: Morganite


PUT ON YOUR MIND. First he did NOT die on the cross and your own bible says so! He was in a coma. He left the area by CRAFT not "ascension" and went to Syria, which your bible also tells you and confronted Paul. Then he went to INDIA and taught in that whole area, which IS documented THERE.

YOU ARE NOT YOUR BODY. MEAT SUITS ARE NOT RESURRECTED, THEY DO NOT LIVE IN HEAVEN. THEY HAVE BETTER BODEIS IN HEAVEN THAT MEAT SUITS.
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 08:47 PM
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IT IS YOUR SOUL THAT RESURRECTS NOT THE MEAT SUIT. JESUS IS A VERY OLD SOUL AND WAS FROM HEAVEN ALREADY,, SO WHY WOULD HE NEED RESURRECTION. IT HE DID, HE COULD NOT HAVE COME AS A MASTER TEACHER, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN STUPID LIKE THE OTHER STUPID ONES GROWING ON THIS PLANE. SOME ONE PEOPLE, YOU HAVE MINDS, USE THEM.
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stupthrd
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Does the Bible say in what shape Jesus will return? Will he be born as a baby on earth again?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17944689


Jesus will return as a man of about age 33 just the age he was after he resurrected and ascended back into heaven.

Acts 1:6-11

And when Jesus had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 Quoting: Morganite


THE CLOUD THAT RECEIVED HIM WAS A CLOUD SHIP. PUT GLOUD SHIP INTO GOOGLE IMAGES. WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD THEM. CRAFT HIDE IN THEM.
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Does the Bible say in what shape Jesus will return? Will he be born as a baby on earth again?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17944689


Jesus will return as a man of about age 33 just the age he was after he resurrected and ascended back into heaven.

Acts 1:6-11

And when Jesus had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 Quoting: Morganite


THE CLOUD THAT RECEIVED HIM WAS A CLOUD SHIP. PUT GLOUD SHIP INTO GOOGLE IMAGES. WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD THEM. CRAFT HIDE IN THEM.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24358110


NOW THAT YOU KNOW HE LEFT IN A SHIP, DON'T YOU THINK, IF YOU THINK, THAT HE WOULD COME BACK IN ONE. BY THE WAY, HIS BODY IS BURIED IN SRINAGAR KASHMIR, AS I SAID THESE BODIES DO NOT GO TO HEAVEN.
Jesus Christ is the way

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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
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I'm sure you've done enough research of both sides of the issue to know that neither side has an air-tight argument. I'd also like to think that you understand the need for a forensic approach to ancient texts, the practice of textual criticism. And knowing that, surely you understand that when the Bible is compared with other ancient documents, it enjoys a significant advantage in terms of number of ms. and close extant copies.

There was a man named Robert "Dick" Wilson, who could read the NT in 9 different languages by the time he graduated college. He then spent the next 15 years learning 70 languages and dialects that had any bearing on the text of the OT. The 15 years after that were spent doing research, and the final 15 years writing about it. I defy anyone to say that this man was not an expert. And in his opinion, the text of the OT is so well-established that there can be no rational case made against it.

For the NT, as you surely know, we have over 24,000 copies in various languages, going back to within about a hundred years of the originals. This, of course, is unprecedented for any ancient text.

So while we don't have the original hand-written pages, we have to the best of scholarly ability built a very strong case for the Bible as we have it today being the most well-preserved and accurate of all ancient texts. This is not just a wish or an assertion but a demonstrable fact.

As for "banned from the Bible", have you never considered the possibility that some texts were thrown in the trash because that's where they belonged? If they didn't meet the stringent criteria for inclusion, they were discarded, and there is no need to scream "conspiracy!" about it. The OT was firmly established before the Council of Nicea ever met, and the NT only had a few minor points of disagreement--- certainly nothing affecting the gospel or the teachings to any significant degree.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Well it seems clear then where we disagree or differ in that your standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence (which only requires 51% vs 49%) whereby mine is beyond a reasonable doubt.

If I am going to accept a text written/transcribed by men as the divine 'word of God', can you explain why it would be unreasonable for me to utilize a standard of proof that is known as beyond a reasonable doubt, as opposed to preponderance of the evidence which only requires that one stated case appear more plausible than another?

Why were any texts thrown in the trash if they were all alleged to be inspired by the 'word of God'? Why did they deserve to be discarded? More importantly, exactly WHOSE 'stringent criteria' was it that determined these texts belong in the trash? What were this individuals motives or incentives for eliminating certain texts? How many different individuals manipulated the original contents throughout time?

Lastly, how can we verify that a written text was indeed channeled from 'God'? How can we prove that other than having faith that we were not deceived or lied to? In my opinion, one could not prove the authors of the bible were indeed channeling 'God' anymore than you could prove or disprove that your neighbor is channeling 'God' if your neighbor made the claim that he or she is doing so. There is no way to test the authenticity nor the origin of the message, other than blind trust/faith.

It is for these reasons that I look to other methods for guidance in this life, ones that exist outside of the influence of religious texts that I cannot verify the authenticity of and that I cannot verify the integrity of the authors who allegedly wrote them. I will never get sufficient answers to the questions above that would satisfy my burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC

Pray without ceasing and with a contrite heart, and I can assure you from my personal experience, any doubts you have in the truth of the word will go away.
 Quoting: Jesus Christ is the way


Well I agree that the heart is the source of truth and intuition, however mine is encouraging me not to devote my consciousness to what others (not implying you) have handed me and alleged to be the 'truth'.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Mine is a strong testimony and I will send it to you on IM if you are interested.
Morganite

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10/02/2012 08:57 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Does the Bible say in what shape Jesus will return? Will he be born as a baby on earth again?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17944689


Jesus will return as a man of about age 33 just the age he was after he resurrected and ascended back into heaven.

Acts 1:6-11

And when Jesus had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 Quoting: Morganite


PUT ON YOUR MIND. First he did NOT die on the cross and your own bible says so! He was in a coma. He left the area by CRAFT not "ascension" and went to Syria, which your bible also tells you and confronted Paul. Then he went to INDIA and taught in that whole area, which IS documented THERE.

YOU ARE NOT YOUR BODY. MEAT SUITS ARE NOT RESURRECTED, THEY DO NOT LIVE IN HEAVEN. THEY HAVE BETTER BODEIS IN HEAVEN THAT MEAT SUITS.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24358110


Always wanted to use this so here goes....
propoganda

And this "meat suit" is going to be changed to an immortal one just like Jesus' resurrected body that Thomas touched and over 500 witnesses saw!

"Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." I Corinthians 15:51-55


Last Edited by Morganite on 10/02/2012 08:58 PM
morganite
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
There is no shortage to amount of inane and unbelievably idiotic diatribe that you bottom feeders spew, is there?

You're the same babbling fool who said the "Rapture" will happen on Rosh Hashanah. Wonder how that turned out...
Keep2theCode

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10/02/2012 08:59 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Like a knight in shining armour... at the exact moment we needed him... so very glad to see you Keep2theCode.cheer
 Quoting: Morganite


Aww, thanks!
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Jesus Christ is the way

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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Does the Bible say in what shape Jesus will return? Will he be born as a baby on earth again?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17944689


Jesus will return as a man of about age 33 just the age he was after he resurrected and ascended back into heaven.

Acts 1:6-11

And when Jesus had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 Quoting: Morganite


PUT ON YOUR MIND. First he did NOT die on the cross and your own bible says so! He was in a coma. He left the area by CRAFT not "ascension" and went to Syria, which your bible also tells you and confronted Paul. Then he went to INDIA and taught in that whole area, which IS documented THERE.

YOU ARE NOT YOUR BODY. MEAT SUITS ARE NOT RESURRECTED, THEY DO NOT LIVE IN HEAVEN. THEY HAVE BETTER BODEIS IN HEAVEN THAT MEAT SUITS.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24358110


Always wanted to use this so here goes....
propoganda

And this "meat suit" is going to be changed to an immortal one just like Jesus' resurrected body that Thomas touched and over 500 witnesses saw!

"Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." I Corinthians 15:51-55

 Quoting: Morganite


Meat suit will be saved as follows:Matthew 24:22
King James Version (KJV)
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2012 09:04 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Therein lies the problem because 'God' does not physically write books, men do. And as you already understand, the written word is subject to error and the inevitable influence of the human mind/ego.

Now you can claim those men channeled 'God' as they were writing those books, but you have no way to verify that or prove it other than accepting what others have told you to believe is the truth. You also cannot speak to any manipulation, censorship, translation errors, or editing that has occurred in the time since these texts were believed to be created. Therefore there is no way to verify that what you are reading today exists in its entirety as it was originally created, nor could you verify that it was the creation of a single author or the authors who were alleged to have written the material.

Under these circumstances I would encourage you to throw caution to the wind and reach your own 'truths' by looking within.
Don't let a man-made book speak for you when you are perfectly capable of finding your own answers.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Oh, but there is a way to verify and prove the Bible is without error.... Test It... Think For Yourself and examine the so called "errors". Also - Understand why the Wisest men of the ages done their due diligence through this same process and conclude it is of Divine origin.

This Really Is The Most Significant Life/Death Conclusion That We Make...
 Quoting: Morganite


There are only 2 ways to prove it was without error:

1) You had to be there when it was written to verify it's authenticity yourself.

2) You are omniscient.

You cannot attest to either. You also could not prove that the men who authored the bible were indeed channeling 'God'. You could only take their word for it.

Have you ever watched the History Channel series called Banned From The Bible? Where are all the missing contents over the centuries? Who removed them and why?

Can you read a book in its entirety if there are chapters missing?
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC



What I find strange about the so called "missing books" is that they never seem to include "Daniel and the Dragon" (I think it's called), yet it very well SHOULD be in this lineup. You should read it. Apparently they seem to steer clear of including it.
Morganite

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10/02/2012 09:06 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Meat suit will be saved as follows:Matthew 24:22
King James Version (KJV)
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
 Quoting: Jesus Christ is the way


Yes, the tribulation believers that Satan persecutes (Rev.12:17,13:7-10)

But not the bride who's in heaven protected from God's wrath (Rev.7:9-17)
morganite
Keep2theCode

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10/02/2012 09:10 PM
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Re: IS REVELATION: 22 happening tomorrow????
Well it seems clear then where we disagree or differ in that your standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence (which only requires 51% vs 49% at minimum) whereby mine is beyond a reasonable doubt.

If I am going to accept a text written/transcribed by men as the divine 'word of God', can you explain why it would be unreasonable for me to utilize a standard of proof that is known as beyond a reasonable doubt, as opposed to preponderance of the evidence which only requires that one stated case appear more plausible than another?

Why were any texts thrown in the trash if they were all alleged to be inspired by the 'word of God'? Why did they deserve to be discarded? More importantly, exactly WHOSE 'stringent criteria' was it that determined these texts belong in the trash? What were this individuals motives or incentives for eliminating certain texts? How many different individuals manipulated the original contents throughout time?

Lastly, how can we verify that a written text was indeed channeled from 'God'? How can we prove that other than having faith that we were not deceived or lied to? In my opinion, one could not prove the authors of the bible were indeed channeling 'God' anymore than you could prove or disprove that your neighbor is channeling 'God' if your neighbor made the claim that he or she is doing so. There is no way to test the authenticity nor the origin of the message, other than blind trust/faith.

It is for these reasons that I look to other methods for guidance in this life, ones that exist outside of the influence of religious texts that I cannot verify the authenticity of and that I cannot verify the integrity of the authors who allegedly wrote them.

I will never get sufficient answers to the questions posed above that would satisfy my concerns beyond a reasonable doubt.

Personally I don't have any issues with people choosing to subscribe to religions and religious texts. It does not offend me on a personal level or anything. However I just don't like to see people limiting themselves or confining their thoughts based on their accepted belief systems which they did not play an active role in creating. In that sense I see it as disempowering and restricting.

peace
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


The standard I'm using is the same as is used for ALL ancient documents. I don't know where you got your percentages, but the body of work concerning the Bible is vast and well-established. This isn't science but forensics, unless you're discussing the age of the medium or ink or the style of writing. This is the standard method for textual criticism, and there isn't a reputable scholar in the world who would agree with you on this.

The stamp of divine authorship is of course more subjective, and no scientific or forensic method can measure it. But what they can do is to verify the dates of prophecies and give a maximum late age, such that any fulfillments afterward can be considered legitimate. Here again we are in the realm of legal procedure, where testimonies are made and witnesses cross-examined, over and over until there is reasonable assurance that the matter has been adequately examined.

As stated already, these methods are the same no matter what the text; it isn't unique to the Bible and does not relax the rules for it. This is good enough for the best scholars in the world, so if you think it's not good enough, there's nothing you can ever believe about any ancient text. And so we'd be wasting our time discussing it.

You misunderstand about documents thrown in the trash. Nobody says the trash was inspired; that's the reason they were discarded! And these decisions were not made lightly or by one person. You can google this topic and find all kinds of information about it.

So I don't know why you alone have to have a degree of proof you never demand for any other document; it seems to indicate that you intend to make the test hard and harder until you get the desired result: failure of the Bible to meet your personal standards, which are the highest in the world, above what even the best scholars demand. Pretty outrageous if you ask me.

And please don't worry about me limiting myself; quite the contrary. It is I who see you as the one doing the limiting. It's as if you refuse to believe in the star Arcturus unless you actually go there in a spaceship. That's incredibly limiting.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)

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