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Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?

 
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 12:40 AM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Vepr 12 Russian Shotgun [link to www.atlanticfirearms.com] IF BANNED ULTIMATE RETURN 5,400 DOLLARS GARUNTEE ...WITH PISTOL GRIP
Patrick Bateman

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10/04/2012 12:41 AM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
12 gauge all the way. With AR 15 you need an entire clip to kill an intruder (when it doesn't jam). With a shotty you end the battle in one shot.

When SHTF you are not gonna sit on your roof top hoping to snipe someone, you stay low and only pull the trigger when you are sure the other guy is here to harm you.

no need for red dot sight, just ghost ring sight. red dot is slow to aim and needs battery to operate.

macgunscared
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14443159


BS, my favorite gun is my .222, and I have dropped every deer I have ever shot at, dead. I have never had one run more than 5 feet, and I have never shot more than once. From 50-200 yards. I have shot turkeys at over 300.

Last Edited by Patrick Bateman on 10/04/2012 12:42 AM
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 04:43 AM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
The question is a good one. However, what specifically the weapon will be used for is another. Are you looking to defend your home once someone enters the dwelling? Are you skilled with guns (what other types of weapons have you fired)? Do you live in a subdivision or out in the country away from neighbors?

These questions get at the heart of what you are comfortable with and what environment the weapon will be used in.

If you are skilled with a gun and can hit targets 50-100yds away, go with the AR. You will NOT be able to mount a defense of your home until the bad guys are actually INSIDE the house with a shotgun. Secondly, one of the other posters had it right when they said that a shotgun blast will be ineffective versus the kevlar the bad guys will be wearing. Some AR rounds will be able to penetrate and you can "pick your spots" better with a rifle. In my opinion, the ONLY advantage that the shotgun has over the AR is the cost and availability of the rounds.

To be sure, you "really" need 3 different types of gun for defense purposes. A reliable side arm (.40 and up), a rifle (preferably semi auto) and a shotgun. Each of those 3 provides a specific "mission" in any home defense situation.

Good luck my friend.

macgun
 Quoting: tenngoat


did you ever hear of sabot shotgun rounds? good to 175 yds.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/04/2012 10:58 AM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
This of course for self defense.

ShotGun: Red Dot sight, 18in Barrel and 28In Barrel (spare).

or

AR-15: Red Dot Sight, 16in Barrel


What do you guys prefer?

Personally I would go with the shotgun because:

More stopping power.
Interchangable Barrels. IE: 18in for Security and 26in for hunting.

Different rounds (ie: Sabot,Slugs, Exotic Ammo, 00Buck, birshot, ect..)


If you had to choose one or the other, what would it be and why?
 Quoting: Gunner 24854327


If I lived in the U.S. I'd buy both.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24892849


Come to the U.S. where there is no such thing as an illegal firearm. Anything can be legally obtained with the correct paperwork and signatures.

So what are you waiting for my italian friend?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24854327


That is not true at all.

Most fully automatics in most states, full auto handguns, launchers, etc.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


Glad I live in Oregon. Come to Oregon Italian person. Where you can legally own a machine gun.
Whole lee shit

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10/04/2012 11:28 AM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
It all depends on if your preparing for short range or mid to long range combat.

The AR15 is crazy accurate. You can reach out and touch someone from 600 meters easy. The .223 is a high velocity round making it great for long distances but ballistically it isn't the best bullet due to its small size.

The shotgun on the other had is only lethal to about 50 meters. However, in the distance a lot of damage will be done depending on the load of the shell.

I don't know about you but close quarters combat is something id like to avoid. My advice to you to cover your ass in both close and long range combat would be to get an AR15 or AR10 and get a Taurus Judge with some Winchester Supreme Elite Self Defense Ammunition for home defense.
"You can go to hell -- I'm going to Texas!" - Davy Crockett

You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits? Now you know why he built that bomb
Patrick Bateman

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10/04/2012 01:14 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
...


If I lived in the U.S. I'd buy both.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24892849


Come to the U.S. where there is no such thing as an illegal firearm. Anything can be legally obtained with the correct paperwork and signatures.

So what are you waiting for my italian friend?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24854327


That is not true at all.

Most fully automatics in most states, full auto handguns, launchers, etc.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


Glad I live in Oregon. Come to Oregon Italian person. Where you can legally own a machine gun.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24854327


Damn that is awesome! Any caliber restrictions? How about fully auto pistols?
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 01:15 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
i lold at a red dot sight on a shotgun.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 01:19 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
The question is a good one. However, what specifically the weapon will be used for is another. Are you looking to defend your home once someone enters the dwelling? Are you skilled with guns (what other types of weapons have you fired)? Do you live in a subdivision or out in the country away from neighbors?

These questions get at the heart of what you are comfortable with and what environment the weapon will be used in.

If you are skilled with a gun and can hit targets 50-100yds away, go with the AR. You will NOT be able to mount a defense of your home until the bad guys are actually INSIDE the house with a shotgun. Secondly, one of the other posters had it right when they said that a shotgun blast will be ineffective versus the kevlar the bad guys will be wearing. Some AR rounds will be able to penetrate and you can "pick your spots" better with a rifle. In my opinion, the ONLY advantage that the shotgun has over the AR is the cost and availability of the rounds.

To be sure, you "really" need 3 different types of gun for defense purposes. A reliable side arm (.40 and up), a rifle (preferably semi auto) and a shotgun. Each of those 3 provides a specific "mission" in any home defense situation.

Good luck my friend.

macgun
 Quoting: tenngoat


did you ever hear of sabot shotgun rounds? good to 175 yds.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13373530


wicked little thangs...
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 01:42 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Dude, shot is shot. I don't own any guns, but it seems to me that you can shoot the average jerkoff with a pellet gun and he will lose his motivation to mess with you.

Just aim for the legs and pussy foot will sit down and whine for a medic.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 01:46 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Also, maybe some of you gun nuts can answer this for me: I hear people talking about how a 9mm is "too small."

Too small for WHAT?

I DARE you to go out and shoot yourself in the guts with a 9mm and then kick down a door and move a sofa, or open a friggin beer for that matter.

eh?
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 01:56 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Dude, shot is shot. I don't own any guns, but it seems to me that you can shoot the average jerkoff with a pellet gun and he will lose his motivation to mess with you.

Just aim for the legs and pussy foot will sit down and whine for a medic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2454648


Well i'm not your average jerkoff but if you were to shoot me with a pellet gun, (and I have been shot plenty of times with one) I would come over and rip your head off. Trying to compair a pelet gun to a shotgun is stupid. Shotgun shells have a powder charge behind it and a lot more lead than a simple pellet gun. They have pretty powerful pellet guns these days but most are only good for small game like rabbits and squirrel.
Patrick Bateman

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10/04/2012 01:58 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Dude, shot is shot. I don't own any guns, but it seems to me that you can shoot the average jerkoff with a pellet gun and he will lose his motivation to mess with you.

Just aim for the legs and pussy foot will sit down and whine for a medic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2454648


Well i'm not your average jerkoff but if you were to shoot me with a pellet gun, (and I have been shot plenty of times with one) I would come over and rip your head off. Trying to compair a pelet gun to a shotgun is stupid. Shotgun shells have a powder charge behind it and a lot more lead than a simple pellet gun. They have pretty powerful pellet guns these days but most are only good for small game like rabbits and squirrel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430199


LMAO, right! I have only been shot with a pellet gun a couple of times, but bb guns over 25. Either way, 9 mms have often lacked the stopping power to put people down, wtf would a pellet gun do 99.99% of the time? Not much.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 02:07 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Dude, shot is shot. I don't own any guns, but it seems to me that you can shoot the average jerkoff with a pellet gun and he will lose his motivation to mess with you.

Just aim for the legs and pussy foot will sit down and whine for a medic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2454648


Well i'm not your average jerkoff but if you were to shoot me with a pellet gun, (and I have been shot plenty of times with one) I would come over and rip your head off. Trying to compair a pelet gun to a shotgun is stupid. Shotgun shells have a powder charge behind it and a lot more lead than a simple pellet gun. They have pretty powerful pellet guns these days but most are only good for small game like rabbits and squirrel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430199


LMAO, right! I have only been shot with a pellet gun a couple of times, but bb guns over 25. Either way, 9 mms have often lacked the stopping power to put people down, wtf would a pellet gun do 99.99% of the time? Not much.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


When I was younger me and the friends used to have BB gun wars all the time. My folks weren't too happy when the arcadia door got shot out. lol.
TexasLaw

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10/04/2012 02:08 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
I would say the AR. Yes, if you are inside for close combat the 12 gauge is probably better, but you can do so much more outside with the AR.

Plus I love the .223.

Get the AR and a cheap double barrel shotgun.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


THIS
Patrick Bateman

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10/04/2012 02:09 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Dude, shot is shot. I don't own any guns, but it seems to me that you can shoot the average jerkoff with a pellet gun and he will lose his motivation to mess with you.

Just aim for the legs and pussy foot will sit down and whine for a medic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2454648


Well i'm not your average jerkoff but if you were to shoot me with a pellet gun, (and I have been shot plenty of times with one) I would come over and rip your head off. Trying to compair a pelet gun to a shotgun is stupid. Shotgun shells have a powder charge behind it and a lot more lead than a simple pellet gun. They have pretty powerful pellet guns these days but most are only good for small game like rabbits and squirrel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430199


LMAO, right! I have only been shot with a pellet gun a couple of times, but bb guns over 25. Either way, 9 mms have often lacked the stopping power to put people down, wtf would a pellet gun do 99.99% of the time? Not much.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


When I was younger me and the friends used to have BB gun wars all the time. My folks weren't too happy when the arcadia door got shot out. lol.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430199


Lol right! I mean don't get me wrong, I was never shot with the high-power pellet guns that exist now, but we used to have wars with the older types.

Even 22's would be hard to use to bring people down in cqc, let alone single pellets.

The ac who made that comment must be a huge pansy.
Patrick Bateman

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10/04/2012 02:12 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
I would say the AR. Yes, if you are inside for close combat the 12 gauge is probably better, but you can do so much more outside with the AR.

Plus I love the .223.

Get the AR and a cheap double barrel shotgun.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


THIS
 Quoting: TexasLaw


Right The amount of situations that the AR will come in handy vs the tactical shotgun are not even close.

And in most situations where the tactical shotgun would win, an old 12 guage would do almost just as well, and they are cheap.
MindShaft

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10/04/2012 02:39 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
I would say the AR. Yes, if you are inside for close combat the 12 gauge is probably better, but you can do so much more outside with the AR.

Plus I love the .223.

Get the AR and a cheap double barrel shotgun.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


THIS
 Quoting: TexasLaw


Right The amount of situations that the AR will come in handy vs the tactical shotgun are not even close.

And in most situations where the tactical shotgun would win, an old 12 guage would do almost just as well, and they are cheap.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


The difference between 'on old 12 gauge' and a tactical shotgun is the capacity. I have both types - O/U Brownings for skeet/sporting clays/bird hunting and a Winchester 1300 Defender.

I would hunt with either of my O/U Brownings for sure, but for home defense, it's hard to beat the shorter-barreled Winchester with its eight-shell '00' buck capacity.

There's also something a little more intimidating about the sound of a pump-action being readied for use.
"People have been conditioned to ridicule all that they are incapable of understanding." Goethe

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Livingood

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10/04/2012 02:50 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
God damn I love America.


I've been murdering the unholy shit out of people for years, in video games. The shotgun is useful in close quarter battle as most have pointed out. I'd say anything indoors. However, the ammunition is an incumberance. Reloading is awkward, slow and often.

The assault rifle is going to be hard to aim while moving. You can compensate with full auto or three shot bursts (not sure if available on AR 15 as I have never owned a real one). This is going to expend ammo quickly. If you're not using the same ammo as the zombies, totally fucked.

If I had to choose between the two, probably the rifle. Once the initial battle is over and you have to defend a location, you'll be happy with the range of the weapon. I'm sure there are mountains of AR15 ammunition in people's way here in Texas, so that wouldn't be an issue.

Last Edited by Livingood on 10/04/2012 02:55 PM
”It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” - Aristotle
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 02:53 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
If you go tactical shotgun the only choice is SAIGA 12. If not go with the AR.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2679163


Just hope its not a "Vodka Special"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15176280


This is rare. Russians created the Kalishnakov design, there is a reason you want a Russian AK over a Romanian one etc. Also a Russian could build one drunk, sleeping and with no tools.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 03:05 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Dude, shot is shot. I don't own any guns, but it seems to me that you can shoot the average jerkoff with a pellet gun and he will lose his motivation to mess with you.

Just aim for the legs and pussy foot will sit down and whine for a medic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2454648







A true story: 1969 VN a soldier that had lost it escaped from the hospital attacked two gaurds and killed them while using only his hands and that's after they unloaded their 45 1911s into him at point blank! Unfortunately no head shots AND they didn't have a shotgun.


Go ahead use a pellet gun and have fun with it YOU DON"T PREPARE FOR THE AVERAGE JERK OFF!!!!!!!!
Livingood

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10/04/2012 03:11 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
IMO, using slugs in a shotgun is essentially getting the worst of all worlds: range, accuracy and area of effect.
”It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” - Aristotle
MARTIAL_LAW

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10/04/2012 03:16 PM

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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
locknload2
Livingood

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10/04/2012 03:18 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
locknload2
 Quoting: MARTIAL_LAW


I hope when I die and go to heaven I get shotgun wings.
”It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” - Aristotle
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 03:32 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Dude, shot is shot. I don't own any guns, but it seems to me that you can shoot the average jerkoff with a pellet gun and he will lose his motivation to mess with you.

Just aim for the legs and pussy foot will sit down and whine for a medic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2454648


Well i'm not your average jerkoff but if you were to shoot me with a pellet gun, (and I have been shot plenty of times with one) I would come over and rip your head off. Trying to compair a pelet gun to a shotgun is stupid. Shotgun shells have a powder charge behind it and a lot more lead than a simple pellet gun. They have pretty powerful pellet guns these days but most are only good for small game like rabbits and squirrel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430199


LMAO, right! I have only been shot with a pellet gun a couple of times, but bb guns over 25. Either way, 9 mms have often lacked the stopping power to put people down, wtf would a pellet gun do 99.99% of the time? Not much.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


Stopping power has nothing to do with it. It's where the shot lands that count. A high powered bb gun can kill if hit in the right spots. A 9mm may not have more "stopping" power than a .45 because it can penetrate more. Their's no research done showing a .45 kills better than a 9mm or even a .22 it's always about where the shot lands. That's the only thing that matters. I would rather have 15 rounds of 9mm than 6 rounds of .45
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 03:44 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
12 Gauge shotgun. Hands down best in close quarters situation.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 03:48 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
No, it's designed as an assault rifle, not a battle rifle.
The AR-15 is designed as a battle rifle, with the ability to engage targets at a (relatively)long range, out to 500 meters. While it can make a good self defense weapon, you will not need the long range option for most self defense scenarios. In addition, the 5.56 round is relatively small and light and will not be as effective as a hunting tool for larger animals if you need it. If you go for the AR I would suggest one in a larger caliber, such as the 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel.

However, I do think the .223/ 5.56 round is cheaper to practice with, at least around here. Shotgun rounds are around 60 cents and up if bought in bulk, while .223 rounds in bulk can be had for 33 cents each.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11361590


I vote shotgun. #4 buckshot will help reduce (but not eliminate!) the risk of penetration through interior walls while retaining stopping power at across- the- room distances. As you mentioned, you also have a wider variety of ammo types to choose from. I would suggest also getting a rifled barrel for sabot slugs, to allow you to engage large targets and/or animals out to the 100 yard range with reasonable accuracy. Then you will have a really versatile hunting and defense tool!

The AR-15 is designed as a battle rifle, with the ability to engage targets at a (relatively)long range, out to 500 meters. While it can make a good self defense weapon, you will not need the long range option for most self defense scenarios. In addition, the 5.56 round is relatively small and light and will not be as effective as a hunting tool for larger animals if you need it. If you go for the AR I would suggest one in a larger caliber, such as the 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel.

However, I do think the .223/ 5.56 round is cheaper to practice with, at least around here. Shotgun rounds are around 60 cents and up if bought in bulk, while .223 rounds in bulk can be had for 33 cents each.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11361590
x CHAKA x

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10/04/2012 04:11 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Let's be realistic here. How many "burglars" wear kevlar? A 9mm is sufficient for home defense. If one bullet doesn't stop em, fire a couple more.

Shotgun SLUGS? haha You guys are freakin nuts. At close quarters you will be blowing limbs off and holes thru people. Death for sure, and you will likely get locked up. An AR-15 for home defense is ridiculous. What, are you fuckin' Scarface?

Now if we are talking SHTF scenario, yeah, you want em all. Shotgun, scoped rifle, sidearm, and the proper gear to carry all your ammo, cleaning kit, a camel back, poncho, spade, axe, first aid supplies, resistor radio, flashlight....
"Better To Die on Your Feet Than Live On Your Knees."
The Governor

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10/04/2012 04:12 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
This of course for self defense.

ShotGun: Red Dot sight, 18in Barrel and 28In Barrel (spare).

or

AR-15: Red Dot Sight, 16in Barrel


What do you guys prefer?

Personally I would go with the shotgun because:

More stopping power.
Interchangable Barrels. IE: 18in for Security and 26in for hunting.

Different rounds (ie: Sabot,Slugs, Exotic Ammo, 00Buck, birshot, ect..)


If you had to choose one or the other, what would it be and why?
 Quoting: Gunner 24854327


Both.

Fuck paying the rent.

macgun
Welcome to Woodbury.

I think being a Democrat should be a felony.

[link to www.policymic.com]
The Governor

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10/04/2012 04:15 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Dude, shot is shot. I don't own any guns, but it seems to me that you can shoot the average jerkoff with a pellet gun and he will lose his motivation to mess with you.

Just aim for the legs and pussy foot will sit down and whine for a medic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2454648


Well i'm not your average jerkoff but if you were to shoot me with a pellet gun, (and I have been shot plenty of times with one) I would come over and rip your head off. Trying to compair a pelet gun to a shotgun is stupid. Shotgun shells have a powder charge behind it and a lot more lead than a simple pellet gun. They have pretty powerful pellet guns these days but most are only good for small game like rabbits and squirrel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430199


LMAO, right! I have only been shot with a pellet gun a couple of times, but bb guns over 25. Either way, 9 mms have often lacked the stopping power to put people down, wtf would a pellet gun do 99.99% of the time? Not much.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


Stopping power has nothing to do with it. It's where the shot lands that count. A high powered bb gun can kill if hit in the right spots. A 9mm may not have more "stopping" power than a .45 because it can penetrate more. Their's no research done showing a .45 kills better than a 9mm or even a .22 it's always about where the shot lands. That's the only thing that matters. I would rather have 15 rounds of 9mm than 6 rounds of .45
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22491741


You are completely ignorant of the subject, and should shut up until you learn.

[link to www.freerepublic.com]

[link to www.americanfirearms.org]
Welcome to Woodbury.

I think being a Democrat should be a felony.

[link to www.policymic.com]
Whole lee shit

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10/04/2012 04:17 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Dude, shot is shot. I don't own any guns, but it seems to me that you can shoot the average jerkoff with a pellet gun and he will lose his motivation to mess with you.

Just aim for the legs and pussy foot will sit down and whine for a medic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2454648


Well i'm not your average jerkoff but if you were to shoot me with a pellet gun, (and I have been shot plenty of times with one) I would come over and rip your head off. Trying to compair a pelet gun to a shotgun is stupid. Shotgun shells have a powder charge behind it and a lot more lead than a simple pellet gun. They have pretty powerful pellet guns these days but most are only good for small game like rabbits and squirrel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430199


LMAO, right! I have only been shot with a pellet gun a couple of times, but bb guns over 25. Either way, 9 mms have often lacked the stopping power to put people down, wtf would a pellet gun do 99.99% of the time? Not much.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


Stopping power has nothing to do with it. It's where the shot lands that count. A high powered bb gun can kill if hit in the right spots. A 9mm may not have more "stopping" power than a .45 because it can penetrate more. Their's no research done showing a .45 kills better than a 9mm or even a .22 it's always about where the shot lands. That's the only thing that matters. I would rather have 15 rounds of 9mm than 6 rounds of .45
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22491741


You are correct. Its all about ballistics. 9mm hollow point will stop anything that gets in your way. Almost all 45 ACP ammo is subsonic meaning its a slow moving bullet. Being that its a large bullet its going to do quite a bit of damage. However, you can get both sub and supersonic bullets for the 9mm. Basically what that means is the 9mm can be tailored to your exact needs. Whether it be accuracy or stopping power.
"You can go to hell -- I'm going to Texas!" - Davy Crockett

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