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Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?

 
Ron W
User ID: 812854
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10/04/2012 04:38 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Shotgun is only for CQB. High capacity shotgun is only for moving short distances. From an unsafe location to a safe one.
I owned a Siaga for a while till a pawn shop gyped me out of it. It was excellent for fast heavy hard hitting damage and fair for skeet shooting =). While it is true a shotgun can kill up to and including 350 yards with flechettes. It is really only effective at about 35 yards or less. Up to 100 is reasonable for a fair marksman with slugs. Don't ask me the drop I don't know.

Personally I dont think any .223 is a sufficient gun not an A.R. not an M16 not even an M4 (though I would like to have one of those seal kits).

Sure a 223 is common and throws allot of lead, some very accurately, but the facts is .223 was made to wound not kill.
What good is a wounded zombie? I want my zombies flat on they're stinking backs.

7.62 or .308 or 30-06 History shows that .30 caliber is the best for getting the job done.

Honestly for true home defense, a Ruger super blackhawk in .44 mag is usually all you ever gonna need.

Red dots and reflex scopes go a long ways to help anyone who isnt able to practice shooting with any regularity. But a true reflex shooter is still gonna be faster.

But don't forget Cardio!, Always check the back seat! When in doubt know your way out! and double tap =)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24323748


Yes! If possible, get a .308 semi-auto rifle.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 15631486
United Kingdom
10/04/2012 04:56 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
I own, this which is chambered in .308 Win
[link to www.sportsmanguncentre.co.uk]

It may be Bolt action, but it's reliable accurate, and did i mention its in.308
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22491741
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10/04/2012 04:58 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
...


Well i'm not your average jerkoff but if you were to shoot me with a pellet gun, (and I have been shot plenty of times with one) I would come over and rip your head off. Trying to compair a pelet gun to a shotgun is stupid. Shotgun shells have a powder charge behind it and a lot more lead than a simple pellet gun. They have pretty powerful pellet guns these days but most are only good for small game like rabbits and squirrel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430199


LMAO, right! I have only been shot with a pellet gun a couple of times, but bb guns over 25. Either way, 9 mms have often lacked the stopping power to put people down, wtf would a pellet gun do 99.99% of the time? Not much.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


Stopping power has nothing to do with it. It's where the shot lands that count. A high powered bb gun can kill if hit in the right spots. A 9mm may not have more "stopping" power than a .45 because it can penetrate more. Their's no research done showing a .45 kills better than a 9mm or even a .22 it's always about where the shot lands. That's the only thing that matters. I would rather have 15 rounds of 9mm than 6 rounds of .45
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22491741


You are completely ignorant of the subject, and should shut up until you learn.

[link to www.freerepublic.com]

[link to www.americanfirearms.org]
 Quoting: The Governor


"When applied to contemporary handgun cartridges, theories based on Hatcher (which include Cooper's and Taylor's "Short Forms") have a statistical correlation to reality of only .64. In other words, they are meaningless. A vocal minority of gun writers and their disciples (again mostly big bore pistol fans) have come to accept this bunk as gospel, but it is really in the same category as urban legends. These "authorities" have been repeating this misinformation for as long as I can remember--but that does not make them right."

"Well designed bullets (which includes most of the JHP pistol bullets now on the market) expand very reliably at their intended impact velocity. How do you imagine the 115 grain JHP 9x19 +P load[/p], 125 grain JHP .357 load, 155 grain JHP .40 S&W load, and 230 grain JHP .45 ACP loads earned those outstanding 90%+ one shot stop records in the real world? In a sentence: due to the consistent performance of their JHP bullets."
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 05:05 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
If you go tactical shotgun the only choice is SAIGA 12. If not go with the AR.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2679163


Why? The mossberg 930spx is cheaper. And better design.
Patrick Bateman

User ID: 24835255
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10/04/2012 07:24 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Dude, shot is shot. I don't own any guns, but it seems to me that you can shoot the average jerkoff with a pellet gun and he will lose his motivation to mess with you.

Just aim for the legs and pussy foot will sit down and whine for a medic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2454648


Well i'm not your average jerkoff but if you were to shoot me with a pellet gun, (and I have been shot plenty of times with one) I would come over and rip your head off. Trying to compair a pelet gun to a shotgun is stupid. Shotgun shells have a powder charge behind it and a lot more lead than a simple pellet gun. They have pretty powerful pellet guns these days but most are only good for small game like rabbits and squirrel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430199


LMAO, right! I have only been shot with a pellet gun a couple of times, but bb guns over 25. Either way, 9 mms have often lacked the stopping power to put people down, wtf would a pellet gun do 99.99% of the time? Not much.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


Stopping power has nothing to do with it. It's where the shot lands that count. A high powered bb gun can kill if hit in the right spots. A 9mm may not have more "stopping" power than a .45 because it can penetrate more. Their's no research done showing a .45 kills better than a 9mm or even a .22 it's always about where the shot lands. That's the only thing that matters. I would rather have 15 rounds of 9mm than 6 rounds of .45
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22491741


LMAO, what are tard. I mean preference is one thing and you are titled to your opinion, but you are very wrong, and calling me ignorant, lol, what a clown.
Patrick Bateman

User ID: 24835255
United States
10/04/2012 07:27 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
I would say the AR. Yes, if you are inside for close combat the 12 gauge is probably better, but you can do so much more outside with the AR.

Plus I love the .223.

Get the AR and a cheap double barrel shotgun.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


THIS
 Quoting: TexasLaw


Right The amount of situations that the AR will come in handy vs the tactical shotgun are not even close.

And in most situations where the tactical shotgun would win, an old 12 guage would do almost just as well, and they are cheap.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


The difference between 'on old 12 gauge' and a tactical shotgun is the capacity. I have both types - O/U Brownings for skeet/sporting clays/bird hunting and a Winchester 1300 Defender.

I would hunt with either of my O/U Brownings for sure, but for home defense, it's hard to beat the shorter-barreled Winchester with its eight-shell '00' buck capacity.

There's also something a little more intimidating about the sound of a pump-action being readied for use.
 Quoting: MindShaft


Very true, but for most home defense the tactical, imo, isn't necessary. It's not like you will be performing a swat raid or some shit. Personally, I'll stick to the good old model 12, 1 of the about 20 firearms I own.

I still want to saw down my double barrel 16 gauge and add a pistol grip, lol.
Patrick Bateman

User ID: 24835255
United States
10/04/2012 07:40 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Shotgun is only for CQB. High capacity shotgun is only for moving short distances. From an unsafe location to a safe one.
I owned a Siaga for a while till a pawn shop gyped me out of it. It was excellent for fast heavy hard hitting damage and fair for skeet shooting =). While it is true a shotgun can kill up to and including 350 yards with flechettes. It is really only effective at about 35 yards or less. Up to 100 is reasonable for a fair marksman with slugs. Don't ask me the drop I don't know.

Personally I dont think any .223 is a sufficient gun not an A.R. not an M16 not even an M4 (though I would like to have one of those seal kits).

Sure a 223 is common and throws allot of lead, some very accurately, but the facts is .223 was made to wound not kill.
What good is a wounded zombie? I want my zombies flat on they're stinking backs.

7.62 or .308 or 30-06 History shows that .30 caliber is the best for getting the job done.

Honestly for true home defense, a Ruger super blackhawk in .44 mag is usually all you ever gonna need.

Red dots and reflex scopes go a long ways to help anyone who isnt able to practice shooting with any regularity. But a true reflex shooter is still gonna be faster.

But don't forget Cardio!, Always check the back seat! When in doubt know your way out! and double tap =)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24323748


Yes! If possible, get a .308 semi-auto rifle.
 Quoting: Ron W 812854


I do like my 30-06, .270, and .243 (2 of them), but to be honest, my .222 is my favorite of them all. My next rifle will either be an AR, AK ( I need an assault rifle) or Dragonov (I want a very long distance/sniper rifle)... My next pistol will definitely be a Kimber, I have been in love since the first time I shot one (more so than with deagles, glocks, which I am a fan of, not a fan of Berettas, sigs, etc by far. I mean, there is a reason the Olympic teams and all special forces have switched to the kimbers, they are fucking nice). I do like my .380 bersa ultralight, but want something larger and will carry both, haha, ankle and shoulder most likely.

As far as shotguns, I have a 20ga/22mag over under, which is a nice fall turkey gun and small game, the old model 12 (amazing), a double barrel 16 gauge, a 12 gauge 3 1/2 mag single shot, several 22's (pump, semi, single, pistol, etc) I have a few other old ones that where handed down to me (as were some of the others, but I don't really use the ones I did not mention, but have them to arm people if shtf, none the less)

What is everyone's opinion between the ot6 and .308? I have shot a .308, but do not own one and have never used one to hunt.

Sorry, not trying to hi-jack the thread Op, just figured I'd use this opportunity to as a couple of ?'s.

There are lots of GLP gun experts I have spoken with that have not partaken in this thread yet, hopefully some do.
Patrick Bateman

User ID: 24835255
United States
10/04/2012 07:42 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
If you go tactical shotgun the only choice is SAIGA 12. If not go with the AR.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2679163


Why? The mossberg 930spx is cheaper. And better design.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21581512


Both are nice, imo, but I am not familiar enough to have an opinion as to which is better.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 07:44 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
I own, this which is chambered in .308 Win
[link to www.sportsmanguncentre.co.uk]

It may be Bolt action, but it's reliable accurate, and did i mention its in.308
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15631486


Real real nice rifle. Good on you!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24951587
United States
10/04/2012 07:46 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
...


Come to the U.S. where there is no such thing as an illegal firearm. Anything can be legally obtained with the correct paperwork and signatures.

So what are you waiting for my italian friend?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24854327


That is not true at all.

Most fully automatics in most states, full auto handguns, launchers, etc.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


Glad I live in Oregon. Come to Oregon Italian person. Where you can legally own a machine gun.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24854327


Damn that is awesome! Any caliber restrictions? How about fully auto pistols?

Not as far as I know. Fully auto pistol is dat shiznit. Also to my knowlegde u can only buy a machine gun if it was made before 1986...or something like that. So that's why they cost so much. Just go to ur local class 3 dealer to find more accurate info or go to youtube and type "buy a class 3 weapon".
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman
Patrick Bateman

User ID: 24835255
United States
10/04/2012 07:48 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
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That is not true at all.

Most fully automatics in most states, full auto handguns, launchers, etc.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


Glad I live in Oregon. Come to Oregon Italian person. Where you can legally own a machine gun.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24854327


Damn that is awesome! Any caliber restrictions? How about fully auto pistols?

Not as far as I know. Fully auto pistol is dat shiznit. Also to my knowlegde u can only buy a machine gun if it was made before 1986...or something like that. So that's why they cost so much. Just go to ur local class 3 dealer to find more accurate info or go to youtube and type "buy a class 3 weapon".
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24951587


That is sweet! For some reason I thought the fully auto pistols were illegal in every state, and only a couple states allowed the fully auto assault rifles, like texas and Idaho or some shit. I was unaware of Oregon, but that's awesome!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24951587
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10/04/2012 10:19 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Oh yeah.....only in America....or should I say...united states OF america.

Don't forget there is:

North America
South America
Central America
MindShaft

User ID: 1554827
United States
10/05/2012 01:03 AM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
...


THIS
 Quoting: TexasLaw


Right The amount of situations that the AR will come in handy vs the tactical shotgun are not even close.

And in most situations where the tactical shotgun would win, an old 12 guage would do almost just as well, and they are cheap.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


The difference between 'on old 12 gauge' and a tactical shotgun is the capacity. I have both types - O/U Brownings for skeet/sporting clays/bird hunting and a Winchester 1300 Defender.

I would hunt with either of my O/U Brownings for sure, but for home defense, it's hard to beat the shorter-barreled Winchester with its eight-shell '00' buck capacity.

There's also something a little more intimidating about the sound of a pump-action being readied for use.
 Quoting: MindShaft


Very true, but for most home defense the tactical, imo, isn't necessary. It's not like you will be performing a swat raid or some shit. Personally, I'll stick to the good old model 12, 1 of the about 20 firearms I own.

I still want to saw down my double barrel 16 gauge and add a pistol grip, lol.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


OK - here's a scenario which questions your choices and recommendations:

You have three or four armed intruders in your home, and you have two loaded barrels on your 'sawn-off' 16-ga plus a handful/perhaps a pocketful of spare shells.

Would you then feel comfortable in your home-defense choice, - or would you wish that you had the additional 6 shells in the spout that a pre-ban 12 ga. pump can hold.

How fast can you unload/eject spent shells/reload - in the dark/under pressure/adrenaline pumping like crazy ...?

20 firearms? I'd imagine you have an extensive and varied ammo collection with that many breeches to feed.

Most people that I've met with large and varied firearms collections (multiple calibers of pistols/revolvers/rifles and smooth-bores) tend to be 'Jack-of-all-guns, - but Master-of-none'.

It's tough to stay second-nature, reflex 'sharp' with too many formats/calibers/grain weights/shot loads etc., to stay on top of and range-practice with, - don't you find?
"People have been conditioned to ridicule all that they are incapable of understanding." Goethe

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free." Goethe
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 23011194
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10/05/2012 01:18 AM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
I'd hate to be armed only with a shotgun and have a few dudes a hundred yards out sending lead into my house.
Livingood

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10/05/2012 01:29 AM

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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Oh yeah.....only in America....or should I say...united states OF america.

Don't forget there is:

North America
South America
Central America
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24951587


pffft.
”It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” - Aristotle
Anonymous Coward
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10/05/2012 01:56 AM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
No, it's designed as an assault rifle, not a battle rifle.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2064727


Technically this is true, since the 5.56mm is not considered a full power cartridge- like the 7.62x51, for example- which is one of the qualifiers to meet the exact definition of a "battle rifle".
However, the term "assault rifle" gets thrown around a lot by the anti-gun crowd because it makes the weapon sound more "evil"; so I try to avoid using it whenever possible on public forums. In many discussions the technical differences between the two are irrelevant, since most people do not know what differs between the two (and it usually serves no useful purpose in the conversation other than semantics). It's good to see some people on here know their weapons!

In any case, most ar-15 rifles in the civilian market will be semi-auto, and therefore not meet the definition of an assault weapon since they lack select-fire capability. Not many people are willing to pay for the tax stamp and jump through the class III hoops in order to own a fully auto or select fire weapon.
Anonymous Coward
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10/05/2012 02:04 AM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
No, it's designed as an assault rifle, not a battle rifle.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2064727


Technically this is true, since the 5.56mm is not considered a full power cartridge- like the 7.62x51, for example- which is one of the qualifiers to meet the exact definition of a "battle rifle".
However, the term "assault rifle" gets thrown around a lot by the anti-gun crowd because it makes the weapon sound more "evil"; so I try to avoid using it whenever possible on public forums. In many discussions the technical differences between the two are irrelevant, since most people do not know what differs between the two (and it usually serves no useful purpose in the conversation other than semantics). It's good to see some people on here know their weapons!

In any case, most ar-15 rifles in the civilian market will be semi-auto, and therefore not meet the definition of an assault weapon since they lack select-fire capability. Not many people are willing to pay for the tax stamp and jump through the class III hoops in order to own a fully auto or select fire weapon.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11361590







Lester is that you?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 11361590
United States
10/05/2012 02:15 AM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
No, it's designed as an assault rifle, not a battle rifle.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2064727


Technically this is true, since the 5.56mm is not considered a full power cartridge- like the 7.62x51, for example- which is one of the qualifiers to meet the exact definition of a "battle rifle".
However, the term "assault rifle" gets thrown around a lot by the anti-gun crowd because it makes the weapon sound more "evil"; so I try to avoid using it whenever possible on public forums. In many discussions the technical differences between the two are irrelevant, since most people do not know what differs between the two (and it usually serves no useful purpose in the conversation other than semantics). It's good to see some people on here know their weapons!

In any case, most ar-15 rifles in the civilian market will be semi-auto, and therefore not meet the definition of an assault weapon since they lack select-fire capability. Not many people are willing to pay for the tax stamp and jump through the class III hoops in order to own a fully auto or select fire weapon.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11361590







Lester is that you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10372663


No, my name's not Lester. I'm just a guy who likes guns (and with any luck will be starting a new job at a local gun shop this month!) rockon
Anonymous Coward
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10/05/2012 02:17 AM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Mossberg 500 (I own one, yes it kicks) with 18 1/2 and 28 inch barrels for dual purpose use. Mosin Nagant 91/30 that cost me $95 for long range, 880 rounds of 7.62x54r for $170. Add a nice 45acp and a 22lr for small game hunting.

For those who say the shotgun slug is inaccurate, I have dropped deer at 100 yards with standard rifled slugs in the stock modified choke barrel. Beyond that anyone shooting at you will be pro's most likely and just stay low and away from windows. They can't shoot what they can't see. Wait for them to bring it to you.
Anonymous Coward
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10/05/2012 02:55 AM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Shotgun. If you shoot anyone at a distance, you are going to be charged with murder. Just read about ferfal's experiences in Argentina.
Patrick Bateman

User ID: 24835255
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10/05/2012 04:00 AM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
...


Right The amount of situations that the AR will come in handy vs the tactical shotgun are not even close.

And in most situations where the tactical shotgun would win, an old 12 guage would do almost just as well, and they are cheap.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


The difference between 'on old 12 gauge' and a tactical shotgun is the capacity. I have both types - O/U Brownings for skeet/sporting clays/bird hunting and a Winchester 1300 Defender.

I would hunt with either of my O/U Brownings for sure, but for home defense, it's hard to beat the shorter-barreled Winchester with its eight-shell '00' buck capacity.

There's also something a little more intimidating about the sound of a pump-action being readied for use.
 Quoting: MindShaft


Very true, but for most home defense the tactical, imo, isn't necessary. It's not like you will be performing a swat raid or some shit. Personally, I'll stick to the good old model 12, 1 of the about 20 firearms I own.

I still want to saw down my double barrel 16 gauge and add a pistol grip, lol.
 Quoting: Patrick Bateman


OK - here's a scenario which questions your choices and recommendations:

You have three or four armed intruders in your home, and you have two loaded barrels on your 'sawn-off' 16-ga plus a handful/perhaps a pocketful of spare shells.

Would you then feel comfortable in your home-defense choice, - or would you wish that you had the additional 6 shells in the spout that a pre-ban 12 ga. pump can hold.

How fast can you unload/eject spent shells/reload - in the dark/under pressure/adrenaline pumping like crazy ...?

20 firearms? I'd imagine you have an extensive and varied ammo collection with that many breeches to feed.

Most people that I've met with large and varied firearms collections (multiple calibers of pistols/revolvers/rifles and smooth-bores) tend to be 'Jack-of-all-guns, - but Master-of-none'.

It's tough to stay second-nature, reflex 'sharp' with too many formats/calibers/grain weights/shot loads etc., to stay on top of and range-practice with, - don't you find?
 Quoting: MindShaft


The pistol grip double barrel is kind of in jest. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I would want a kimber 1911, or my model 12 with he plugs out so it would hold 6 3 inch mag shells.

I am a master with my model 12, my 222, my .380 .22 semi and 30-06.

I have been using them for shooting and hunting since i was a little kid. most were handed down to me, i only bought like 4 of them. So after decades of use, practice, hunting, caring, etc, I am very good with them all but better with my favs. The person you describe probably does not have decades of experience due to starting as a child.

My point is you can get a 12 gauge cheap, pull the plugs out so it hols 6, and still get the ar.

I see what you are saying, but I am a survivalist, camper, hunter, fisher, trapper, outdoors-man and have been my whole life, so maybe your theory works with most, but there are always exceptions. It's not like I acquired these all one day and got good with a few, I have had and been suing them my whole life.

Last Edited by Patrick Bateman on 10/05/2012 04:07 AM
Patrick Bateman

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10/05/2012 04:08 AM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
oh and i that situation, even with a pistol grip sawed off double barrel and a 45 in my holster, i would fuck them up, and be able to do more than someone with only a tactical shotgun.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 24854327
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10/17/2012 07:31 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
AA-12 Anyone?

Or are you still sold on AR-15?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/17/2012 07:35 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
What do you guys think about the

MagPul Masada Adaptive Combat Weapon System, AKA: ACR assult rifle with the 7.62 NATO rounds? or .308 rounds
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2012 07:35 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Hmmmm,

Let's see, 5 rounds with a shorty, 30 rounds with an AR.

I would get both. Umm oh yeah, i do.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/17/2012 10:08 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Hmmmm,

Let's see, 5 rounds with a shorty, 30 rounds with an AR.

I would get both. Umm oh yeah, i do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4705083


How about a 32 round drum for the AA-12 shotgun?

Oh Yeah!
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2012 10:20 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
Between those two, I'd go with the AR. But get a quality optic on it like an Eotech.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2012 10:25 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
AK all day , everyday
banana2
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/17/2012 10:30 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
AK all day , everyday
banana2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25723103


Sorry, An AK doesn't carry a "7.62 NATO"......

Keyword "NATO".
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2012 10:30 PM
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Re: Tactical Shotgun or AR-15?
This of course for self defense.

ShotGun: Red Dot sight, 18in Barrel and 28In Barrel (spare).

or

AR-15: Red Dot Sight, 16in Barrel


What do you guys prefer?

Personally I would go with the shotgun because:

More stopping power.
Interchangable Barrels. IE: 18in for Security and 26in for hunting.

Different rounds (ie: Sabot,Slugs, Exotic Ammo, 00Buck, birshot, ect..)


If you had to choose one or the other, what would it be and why?
 Quoting: Gunner 24854327


you can do the same with 5.56 but Much more range.buy your reloading stuff now before its illegal.

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