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Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics

 
Tired of Selfish People
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10/04/2012 02:55 PM
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Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
Mitt Romney performed well in the debate last night. Too bad most of what he said is based on fantasy. With a $16 Trillion national debt, a $1 trillion budget deficit, tax rates at unsustainably low levels, and tax revenues at all-time lows, it is impossible for Romney to cut taxes further without adding to the national debt.

Ronald Reagan followed Mitt's plan. And it worked. It pulled the country out of the stagnation of the 1970s. But Reagan also began adding to the national debt for the first time since the end of World War 2. If Reagan's policies had been a short-term stimulus with a return to fiscal responsibility during his second term, he would have been one of the greatest Presidents in our nation's history. Instead, he doubled down on his fiscal recklessness during his second term and laid the foundation for our current fiscal crisis. The national debt when Reagan took office was $1 trillion and about 33% of GDP.

George H.W. Bush and congressional Republicans did a lot of hand-wringing about the growing national debt but did nothing to stop it. Trickle-down economics, an unsustainable system in the long run, ran its course and the country was hit with the recession of 1991 that cost Bush reelection. When Bush left office, the national debt was $4.5 trillion and over 65% of GDP. Reagan and Bush broke a 30-year streak of Presidents who paid down the national debt as a percentage of GDP.

Clinton took office and immediately raised taxes and began working with the Republican Congress to balance the budget. After six years and unprecedented economic growth, he balanced the budget. When the tech bubble burst in 1999, the country was on solid fiscal ground for weathering the storm without any serious long-term effects. When he left office the national debt was $5.5 trillion and 58% of GDP--the largest reduction as a percentage of GDP for any President since Eisenhower.

Then came the disaster of George W. Bush. He immediately returned to the policies of Reagan and his father. He cut taxes and, in one year, turned a modest budget surplus into a $150 million deficit. His deficit spending never stopped. The presumption that his tax cuts would stimulate economic growth and, therefore, increase tax revenue to make up the difference never materialized. George W. Bush presided over the slowest period of economic growth since the Great Depression. This came to a head in 2008 when the housing bubble burst and GDP contracted by 9%. The 2009 budget, still based on Bush's policies, featured a deficit of over $1 trillion for the first time in our nation's history. When GW Bush left office, the national debt had almost doubled to $10.5 trillion. It rose to 88% of GDP--giving Bush 2 the biggest increase in debt of any President. Trickle down economics failed again.

Obama inherited the biggest financial mess since FDR took office after the Coolidge/Hoover disaster of the 1920s and early 1930s. Unfortunately, Obama was short on ideas and short on the leadership skills needed to assert himself was the leader in Washington. The debate last night was a microcosm of Obama's shortcomings. Stupidly, he kept most of Bush 2's policies, including his tax cuts--causing some to label Obama as a "Moderate Republican in Democrat's clothing." He has done a terrible job with the economy. And while Obamacare will help to bring the United States back in to the modern world in terms of providing health care coverage to the country's citizens, and while he has been absolutely masterful in terms of foreign policy, his domestic policy has been seriously lacking. He has added $5.5 trillion to the national debt. But growth of the debt has leveled off at 105% of GDP and is not expected to rise significantly. Obama's sensible approach to cutting spending while returning to Bill Clinton's tax rates will begin the long, slow process of digging the country out of the fiscal hole it is in.

Which brings us to today. If history repeats itself, then it will take 30 years to pay the debt down to 33% of GDP, as it did from 1950 to 1980. Then Reaganomics stepped in and started this whole ball of debt wax.

Mitt Romney's plan is based on the fantasy that the economy will grow at a certain rate to make up for all of the new tax cuts that he plans to add. Mitt Romney plans to pay for the cuts by closing tax loopholes. But, as Obama said last night, though not very forcefully, there are not enough tax loopholes in the upper reaches of the tax bracket that can be closed so that middle-class Americans do not face tax increases in the form of doing away with the home-mortgage deduction and other "loop holes" that are used by regular folks. Not only will Romney's plan shift the tax burden from the wealthy to the poor, his assumptions of economic growth to increase tax revenue will fail. Just like they failed for Reagan. Just like they failed for Bush 1. Just like they failed for Bush 2. Romney's plan is based on fantasy. If you enjoy fantasy, vote for Romney. When you wake up, the country--if it still exists--will have a $30 trillion national debt that is 130% of GDP. And that's only if Rmoney doesn't start a war with Iran that evolves into World War 3. Which is exactly what he appears to be planning. Especially considering his close friendship to Bibi Netanyahu since the 1970s.

Sure, Romney won the debate last night by being aggressive and sounding sure of himself. But his policies will lead us over a cliff that there's probably no coming back from.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 02:57 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
Mitt Romney performed well in the debate last night. Too bad most of what he said is based on fantasy. With a $16 Trillion national debt, a $1 trillion budget deficit, tax rates at unsustainably low levels, and tax revenues at all-time lows, it is impossible for Romney to cut taxes further without adding to the national debt.

Ronald Reagan followed Mitt's plan. And it worked. It pulled the country out of the stagnation of the 1970s. But Reagan also began adding to the national debt for the first time since the end of World War 2. If Reagan's policies had been a short-term stimulus with a return to fiscal responsibility during his second term, he would have been one of the greatest Presidents in our nation's history. Instead, he doubled down on his fiscal recklessness during his second term and laid the foundation for our current fiscal crisis. The national debt when Reagan took office was $1 trillion and about 33% of GDP.

George H.W. Bush and congressional Republicans did a lot of hand-wringing about the growing national debt but did nothing to stop it. Trickle-down economics, an unsustainable system in the long run, ran its course and the country was hit with the recession of 1991 that cost Bush reelection. When Bush left office, the national debt was $4.5 trillion and over 65% of GDP. Reagan and Bush broke a 30-year streak of Presidents who paid down the national debt as a percentage of GDP.

Clinton took office and immediately raised taxes and began working with the Republican Congress to balance the budget. After six years and unprecedented economic growth, he balanced the budget. When the tech bubble burst in 1999, the country was on solid fiscal ground for weathering the storm without any serious long-term effects. When he left office the national debt was $5.5 trillion and 58% of GDP--the largest reduction as a percentage of GDP for any President since Eisenhower.

Then came the disaster of George W. Bush. He immediately returned to the policies of Reagan and his father. He cut taxes and, in one year, turned a modest budget surplus into a $150 million deficit. His deficit spending never stopped. The presumption that his tax cuts would stimulate economic growth and, therefore, increase tax revenue to make up the difference never materialized. George W. Bush presided over the slowest period of economic growth since the Great Depression. This came to a head in 2008 when the housing bubble burst and GDP contracted by 9%. The 2009 budget, still based on Bush's policies, featured a deficit of over $1 trillion for the first time in our nation's history. When GW Bush left office, the national debt had almost doubled to $10.5 trillion. It rose to 88% of GDP--giving Bush 2 the biggest increase in debt of any President. Trickle down economics failed again.

Obama inherited the biggest financial mess since FDR took office after the Coolidge/Hoover disaster of the 1920s and early 1930s. Unfortunately, Obama was short on ideas and short on the leadership skills needed to assert himself was the leader in Washington. The debate last night was a microcosm of Obama's shortcomings. Stupidly, he kept most of Bush 2's policies, including his tax cuts--causing some to label Obama as a "Moderate Republican in Democrat's clothing." He has done a terrible job with the economy. And while Obamacare will help to bring the United States back in to the modern world in terms of providing health care coverage to the country's citizens, and while he has been absolutely masterful in terms of foreign policy, his domestic policy has been seriously lacking. He has added $5.5 trillion to the national debt. But growth of the debt has leveled off at 105% of GDP and is not expected to rise significantly. Obama's sensible approach to cutting spending while returning to Bill Clinton's tax rates will begin the long, slow process of digging the country out of the fiscal hole it is in.

Which brings us to today. If history repeats itself, then it will take 30 years to pay the debt down to 33% of GDP, as it did from 1950 to 1980. Then Reaganomics stepped in and started this whole ball of debt wax.

Mitt Romney's plan is based on the fantasy that the economy will grow at a certain rate to make up for all of the new tax cuts that he plans to add. Mitt Romney plans to pay for the cuts by closing tax loopholes. But, as Obama said last night, though not very forcefully, there are not enough tax loopholes in the upper reaches of the tax bracket that can be closed so that middle-class Americans do not face tax increases in the form of doing away with the home-mortgage deduction and other "loop holes" that are used by regular folks. Not only will Romney's plan shift the tax burden from the wealthy to the poor, his assumptions of economic growth to increase tax revenue will fail. Just like they failed for Reagan. Just like they failed for Bush 1. Just like they failed for Bush 2. Romney's plan is based on fantasy. If you enjoy fantasy, vote for Romney. When you wake up, the country--if it still exists--will have a $30 trillion national debt that is 130% of GDP. And that's only if Rmoney doesn't start a war with Iran that evolves into World War 3. Which is exactly what he appears to be planning. Especially considering his close friendship to Bibi Netanyahu since the 1970s.

Sure, Romney won the debate last night by being aggressive and sounding sure of himself. But his policies will lead us over a cliff that there's probably no coming back from.
 Quoting: Tired of Selfish People 19910005
based on truth of information Ive received your entire post is also delving in complete fantasy. Your post is filled with lies ignorence and errors. Better luck next time
khnum
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10/04/2012 02:59 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
The whole planet is based on fantasy economics but Romney is a poster boy for the Wizard of Oz.
Tired of Selfish People (OP)
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10/04/2012 03:08 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
based on truth of information Ive received your entire post is also delving in complete fantasy. Your post is filled with lies ignorence and errors. Better luck next time
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24960533


Nice rebuttal. How would T.S. Eliot characterize your kind of response? Oh yeah:

"Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion;"
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 03:09 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
i'm not gonna lie to you, i'm not reading all that shit.

that said, i agree with you.
PravdaDemocrat

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10/04/2012 03:13 PM

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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
WHAT ABOUT THIS STATEMENT WAS A LIE??


"What we're seeing right now is a trickle-down government approach which has government thinking it can do a better job than free people pursuing their dreams, and it's not working.
"And the proof of that is 23 million people out of work. The proof of that is one out of six people in poverty. The proof of that is we've gone from 32 million people on foodstamps to 47 million on foodstamps. The proof of that is 50% of college graduates this year can't find work.
"We know that the path we're taking is not working. It's time for a new path."

I'll wait breathlessly for your answer.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 03:14 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
WHAT ABOUT THIS STATEMENT WAS A LIE??


"What we're seeing right now is a trickle-down government approach which has government thinking it can do a better job than free people pursuing their dreams, and it's not working.
"And the proof of that is 23 million people out of work. The proof of that is one out of six people in poverty. The proof of that is we've gone from 32 million people on foodstamps to 47 million on foodstamps. The proof of that is 50% of college graduates this year can't find work.
"We know that the path we're taking is not working. It's time for a new path."

I'll wait breathlessly for your answer.
 Quoting: PravdaDemocrat


what part of that quote has to do with romney's economic and tax plans?
Tired of Selfish People (OP)
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10/04/2012 03:26 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
WHAT ABOUT THIS STATEMENT WAS A LIE??


"What we're seeing right now is a trickle-down government approach which has government thinking it can do a better job than free people pursuing their dreams, and it's not working.
"And the proof of that is 23 million people out of work. The proof of that is one out of six people in poverty. The proof of that is we've gone from 32 million people on foodstamps to 47 million on foodstamps. The proof of that is 50% of college graduates this year can't find work.
"We know that the path we're taking is not working. It's time for a new path."

I'll wait breathlessly for your answer.
 Quoting: PravdaDemocrat


what part of that quote has to do with romney's economic and tax plans?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14207070


Exactly. Pravda picked one of the few things Romney said that was true and now wants rebuttal. The problem is not that we don't need a new path. The problem is that Romney's proposed solution is to put us right back on the path of Reagan/Bush/Bush. So we're supposed to trade the current slow march back into the black for the fast track off the fiscal cliff? No thank you. I don't care how good Mitt Romney looked saying it. His policies would be a disaster.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 03:28 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
Havent we been living on fantasy money for a long time already.
We just print that stuff from air...
Bluebird

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10/04/2012 03:31 PM

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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
Havent we been living on fantasy money for a long time already.
We just print that stuff from air...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24961943


Yeah, and we have been living in Obama's fantasy for almost 4 years now.

Personally, I don't like it.

You may, OP. But we all have our own opinion.
One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one.

Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway.

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy
Tired of Selfish People (OP)
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10/04/2012 03:33 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
Havent we been living on fantasy money for a long time already.
We just print that stuff from air...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24961943


Some fantasies have harsher consequences than others when it comes to waking up from them. Trickle-down economics is a disaster in that regard. Which is why a vote for Romney is a vote for a base jump into fiscal oblivion.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 03:35 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
WHAT ABOUT THIS STATEMENT WAS A LIE??


"What we're seeing right now is a trickle-down government approach which has government thinking it can do a better job than free people pursuing their dreams, and it's not working.
"And the proof of that is 23 million people out of work. The proof of that is one out of six people in poverty. The proof of that is we've gone from 32 million people on foodstamps to 47 million on foodstamps. The proof of that is 50% of college graduates this year can't find work.
"We know that the path we're taking is not working. It's time for a new path."

I'll wait breathlessly for your answer.
 Quoting: PravdaDemocrat


what part of that quote has to do with romney's economic and tax plans?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14207070


It's nothing but an empty sound bite.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 03:35 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
It worked at the time and thats all that matters.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 03:36 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
Havent we been living on fantasy money for a long time already.
We just print that stuff from air...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24961943


Some fantasies have harsher consequences than others when it comes to waking up from them. Trickle-down economics is a disaster in that regard. Which is why a vote for Romney is a vote for a base jump into fiscal oblivion.
 Quoting: Tired of Selfish People 19910005


Yep.

But dumb merkans never learn.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 03:38 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
WHAT ABOUT THIS STATEMENT WAS A LIE??


"What we're seeing right now is a trickle-down government approach which has government thinking it can do a better job than free people pursuing their dreams, and it's not working.
"And the proof of that is 23 million people out of work. The proof of that is one out of six people in poverty. The proof of that is we've gone from 32 million people on foodstamps to 47 million on foodstamps. The proof of that is 50% of college graduates this year can't find work.
"We know that the path we're taking is not working. It's time for a new path."

I'll wait breathlessly for your answer.
 Quoting: PravdaDemocrat


Ms. Spammer is back with her bullshit.

One thing you all need to understand is that the economic problems we face are global. this is not an american problem.
these problems are not able to be fixed by using any economic theories brought forth by both candidates because the economic system's rules have been eroded over time by greed. therefore these rules, which define and support the economic system, will not respond to any politically ideological derivations because the entire system has been corrupted. neither candidate is dealing with reality. neither candidate is telling you the truth. and neither is ms. spammer and her legion of foxheads.
Sledster

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10/04/2012 03:38 PM

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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
Obama's performance was based on what exactly?

He didnt say anything meaningful whatsoever.

He looked like a schoolkid who got caught cheating on a test.
I'm tired of waiting, somebody push the damn button already!

Please ignore the German flag, I am an American.

Keep your 72 virgins, give me one old biker chick.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 03:41 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
Obama's performance was based on what exactly?

He didnt say anything meaningful whatsoever.

He looked like a schoolkid who got caught cheating on a test.
 Quoting: Sledster


nobody in here is saying obama did a good job. believe it or not there are other candidates out there besides dumb and dumber
Deej

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10/04/2012 03:46 PM

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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
Havent we been living on fantasy money for a long time already.
We just print that stuff from air...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24961943


Some fantasies have harsher consequences than others when it comes to waking up from them. Trickle-down economics is a disaster in that regard. Which is why a vote for Romney is a vote for a base jump into fiscal oblivion.
 Quoting: Tired of Selfish People 19910005


and WHAT just exactly is a vote for Osalami!

putin

Last Edited by Deej on 10/04/2012 03:47 PM
No matter what happens... just say "Thank You." - D W Fierce
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 03:48 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
Obama's performance was based on what exactly?

He didnt say anything meaningful whatsoever.

He looked like a schoolkid who got caught cheating on a test.
 Quoting: Sledster


He was bad. His performance sucked.

Obama is a lot better on the stump in front of crowds than he is in debate. Hillary mauled him, too. It's especially difficult when you're facing a psychopath on stimulants who's talking 1000 miles an hour and everything he says is a fucking lie.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 04:09 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
it's funny how television has skewed american thinking

performance is paramount


think about that

or try to anyway

your probably too busy watching another riveting performance on television
Tired of Selfish People (OP)
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10/04/2012 04:26 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
I am Hulksmash_Duncan. Beware.

(Shout out to my detractors at another sports related message board)
*Heisenberg*

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10/04/2012 04:32 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
I stopped at tax rates are at an unsustainably low levels...

How about the Government is at unsustainably high levels....instead of stealing more of peoples EARNED money to feed a growing beast.....shrink the beast.

I can spend MY EARNED money, better than Obama can. For one, I wouldn't have lost money in Solyndra.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/04/2012 04:49 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
I stopped at tax rates are at an unsustainably low levels...

How about the Government is at unsustainably high levels....instead of stealing more of peoples EARNED money to feed a growing beast.....shrink the beast.

I can spend MY EARNED money, better than Obama can. For one, I wouldn't have lost money in Solyndra.
 Quoting: *Heisenberg*


In order to shrink the beast we've got to first pay for it. If we try to shrink it before we pay for it then America as we know it will cease to exist. Ronald Reagan and every President since him already spent the money. The question is whether we're going to sack up as Americans and actually pay the bills. Romney has no plan to pay the bills.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 04:52 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
To me what he said was more like stupid lies
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 05:05 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
it's funny how television has skewed american thinking

performance is paramount


think about that

or try to anyway

your probably too busy watching another riveting performance on television
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21963969


Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2012 05:23 PM
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Re: Romney's debate performance was based on fantasy economics
WHAT ABOUT THIS STATEMENT WAS A LIE??


"What we're seeing right now is a trickle-down government approach which has government thinking it can do a better job than free people pursuing their dreams, and it's not working.
"And the proof of that is 23 million people out of work. The proof of that is one out of six people in poverty. The proof of that is we've gone from 32 million people on foodstamps to 47 million on foodstamps. The proof of that is 50% of college graduates this year can't find work.
"We know that the path we're taking is not working. It's time for a new path."

I'll wait breathlessly for your answer.
 Quoting: PravdaDemocrat


what part of that quote has to do with romney's economic and tax plans?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14207070


EXactly. Thaat is just more of the GOP mentality of blame everything on Obama... but not having an plan to fix it yourself.

This websit is filled with people who buy into that bullshit too.

Mitt Romney is the same bullshit as GWB, but probably worse considering he will start WW3. Romney's 'trickle down" economic plan is the exact reason why we have the problems we have today.

Barrack Obama is ust making sure that everyone is taken care of while this worldwide economic hole bottoms out.