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Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people

 
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 07:18 PM
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
i used to be a buddhist. i am no longer, but i still adhere to many of the practical life principles. things like detachment, balance is the middle way, etc. lots of good stuff in there, Jesus said the same stuff. but, also lots of illogical, inconsistent, and false things in there too. be careful...

Thread: Reincarnation: Fact or fiction?
 Quoting: Salt


Salt, Your punctuation is what may be throwing others off on what you may have meant, including me. The illogical, inconsistant and false things you speak of are from Buddhism or from Christ?
 Quoting: Son of Thor


oh ok i see it.

the inconsistencies and illogical stuff is in buddhism, not Christianity.

like karma for instance. it simply does not pass the logical argument. neither does reincarnation. neither does matter being an illusion. these are ancient ideas that have proven to be inconsistent and illogical and incorrect merely from the passing of time and advancements in science, etc.
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 07:20 PM
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
the purpose of the buddha statues is merely to
be a constant inspiration to you to follow The Buddha's teaching in all that you do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25122258


bump
ANHEDONIC

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10/07/2012 07:21 PM

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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
i used to be a buddhist. i am no longer, but i still adhere to many of the practical life principles. things like detachment, balance is the middle way, etc. lots of good stuff in there, Jesus said the same stuff. but, also lots of illogical, inconsistent, and false things in there too. be careful...

Thread: Reincarnation: Fact or fiction?
 Quoting: Salt


Salt, Your punctuation is what may be throwing others off on what you may have meant, including me. The illogical, inconsistant and false things you speak of are from Buddhism or from Christ?
 Quoting: Son of Thor


oh ok i see it.

the inconsistencies and illogical stuff is in buddhism, not Christianity.

like karma for instance. it simply does not pass the logical argument. neither does reincarnation. neither does matter being an illusion. these are ancient ideas that have proven to be inconsistent and illogical and incorrect merely from the passing of time and advancements in science, etc.
 Quoting: Salt


Relying on what sounds 'logical' is only using half of your brain, the left side. The right side goes beyond what is deemed 'logical' or 'rational'. The left-brain certainly has its limitations.

What's 'logical' is only a product of the present moment. Imagine traveling back 200 years and trying to describe the internet when they didn't even have electricity? What's illogical' today can be 'logical' in the future when the collective consciousness evolves.

Last Edited by ANHEDONIC on 10/07/2012 07:22 PM

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 07:25 PM
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
belief in reincarnation is no different than some dumbass believing in God.
to each dumbass his own, i guess :)
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 07:26 PM
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
i used to be a buddhist. i am no longer, but i still adhere to many of the practical life principles. things like detachment, balance is the middle way, etc. lots of good stuff in there, Jesus said the same stuff. but, also lots of illogical, inconsistent, and false things in there too. be careful...

Thread: Reincarnation: Fact or fiction?
 Quoting: Salt


Salt, Your punctuation is what may be throwing others off on what you may have meant, including me. The illogical, inconsistant and false things you speak of are from Buddhism or from Christ?
 Quoting: Son of Thor


oh ok i see it.

the inconsistencies and illogical stuff is in buddhism, not Christianity.

like karma for instance. it simply does not pass the logical argument. neither does reincarnation. neither does matter being an illusion. these are ancient ideas that have proven to be inconsistent and illogical and incorrect merely from the passing of time and advancements in science, etc.
 Quoting: Salt


Relying on what sounds 'logical' is only using half of your brain, the left side. The right side goes beyond what is deemed 'logical' or 'rational'. The left-brain certainly has its limitations.

What's 'logical' is only a product of the present moment. Imagine traveling back 200 years and trying to describe the internet when they didn't even have electricity? What's illogical' today can be 'logical' in the future when the collective consciousness evolves.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


PLAIN AND SIMPLE LOGIC AND REASON - Non-Biblical

I. Reincarnation is Unworkable

The goal of reincarnation is to work off all bad karma until the "sound of silence" (the primordial state of the universe) returns once more. But there is a problem here. To believe that souls are working off their bad karma and gathering good karma, assumes that people are learning and improving. Things are getting better and each succeeding life is more enriched. By every rotation of the wheel, souls are getting closer to Nirvana. That is false.

To forever disprove that theory, all we have to do is visit India. That is the nation where reincarnation has been taught so forcefully for the longest period of time. There is where bad karma has been worked off and good karma has been building for centuries. Millions of people should be living easier and easier lives as they climb to higher life forms. Are they? No. India bears tragic witness to the failure of such a philosophy. Instead of being a glowing light for the world, India agonizes in rampant poverty, starvation, suffering and chaos. Its suffering increases daily. Millions of poor souls quietly despair and prepare to die, hoping that something better will be found in the next life.

Hindu followers defend the failure in India. They say that we should not "equate reincarnation with progress." They argue that reincarnation "only provides the opportunity for progress." That is disappointing. The very religion that calls for progress toward Nirvana does not guarantee progress? Why? Because there is no incentive to improve.

One cannot improve on a mistake he can't remember. If a person doesn't have any recollection of his past in the next life, he has no reason whatever to improve. Reincarnation sends you around again and again, but teaches you nothing. You remember nothing and improve none at all. Also, if you believe you are going around again and again, there is no motivation to change or improve anything right now. Generations come and go without progression in such a system. That is why the social order of most Hindu nations is below standard. The poor and uneducated languish in misery, generation after generation.

Karma can work only if people are getting better. And the truth is, people are not. If I do evil in life number one, I must pay for my bad Karma when I reincarnate. But if, in life number two, I do more wickedness when I am supposed to be burning off the bad from my first life -- then I have to pay for that new evil in life number three. But there I do more wickedness -- the cycle is endless and degenerates as it turns. I get further and further away from perfection, not closer.



**********************************************
**********************************************

2. Reincarnation is Illogical

A young man proudly announced to an older man, "I am a firm believer in reincarnation. It has all the answers for me." "Really?" asked the older man. "Tell me about it so I can believe it too. How many times have you been reincarnated?" "Uh, I don't know," stammered the youth. "What were you before you got to this point?" "I don't know." "What will you be next time?" "I don't know." How many more times must you go around before you are perfected?" "I don't know." "Where can you go to get the answers?" "I don't know." "Then how can you say it has all the answers?" asked the older man. "It doesn't have any answers. I will just stay with the Bible. Its truth is clear, plain and invites investigation. It has all the answers for everyone."

In reincarnation there are no answers. And where is the proof? The explanations that it offers us are totally lacking. The brain just cannot logically accept some of the things it teaches. For example, reincarnationists teach:

*That the world's population is basically stable. One Hindu writer said, "As one dies, another is born to take his place."

*Even when war or natural disaster reduces the population in one place, other places are experiencing prosperity and population growth. Thus overall, the world's population remains stable.

*There will, therefore, always be just enough souls to be reborn into all infant bodies, for there is a corresponding number of deaths and births.

*The human soul is not created but is eternal. Thus no new souls are being created to enter the cycle of rebirths.

*When a soul is sufficiently purified, it is absorbed back into "being" (out of our world into Nirvana).

The problems in such teaching are obvious: First, if no new souls are being created, yet the number of old souls are being absorbed back into "being," it should follow that the world population is decreasing. This is not true. Instead there are more people alive in this present generation than in any previous one.

Consider the following statistics of growth in the world:

A.D. 1575 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 500 Million people

1825 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 Billion people

1925 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 Billion people

1975 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Almost 4 Billion People

Second, since the world's population is increasing so rapidly, it is only obvious that there are not enough old souls to fit these new bodies. Where are they to come from? Does that mean that there are bodies walking around with no souls?

To answer this dilemma, many Hindu devotees claim that Karma is changing -- sending the needed souls up from insects and animals, evolving them into humans. They agree the world has more humans today, but claim we have less insects. However, that is not true either. And even if it were, why should the law of Karma change to accommodate the need for extra souls? And if karma changed, it cannot be a law at all. Personalities change, laws don't.

*********************************************
**********************************************



III. Reincarnation is Unjust

A mother brought her son to school for the first day of instruction. She went to the headmaster and said, "My son John is very shy, so if he misbehaves, just slap the student next to him, and John will learn his lesson and behave." Everybody knows that her suggestion was silly. Such could not be practiced because it is unjust. John has to face his own mistakes and take his own discipline.

And that is a huge problem with reincarnation: it is unjust.

Adolf Hitler ordered the deaths of at least six million jewish people in his lifetime. It could be said that he was responsible for the death of 60 million people all over the world; not to mention the evil he inflicted on those who survived. When he died in 1945, can you imagine the karma built up against him? Perhaps he has 60 million reincarnations of suffering to go through before getting back to where he was before he killed the jewish people or started World War II.

Let's assume that in 1960 (after a few short lives as a bug, a snake, three mice and a dog) Hitler is reincarnated as a crippled baby girl in New York City named Ruth Jones. Ruth has no idea that she is really Adolf Hitler reincarnated or that she is suffering for the crimes of the Nazi Fuhrer. It is at this point that karma justice breaks down completely. Hitler is gone, and his personality actually ceased to exist in 1945. Little Ruth now bears the massive burden of Hitler's karmic debt. She did nothing wrong, but karma strikes here anyway!

And little Ruth is only the first in a series of 60 million miserable lives spawned by the evil of Hitler. Ruth has to die in distress to let the next body pay for more karma. Now Hitler has affected the lives -- not just of 60 million who died in the war, but 60 million reincarnated people who are paying for the past deeds of their predecessors.

We are up to 120 million people now, and that is not even considering the sins committed by these 120 million that they must pay for later. And where is Hitler in all this? He hasn't paid for anything. Do you begin to see the injustice?

Reincarnation says that, in life, each of us is responsible for our own actions. Yet we are not. In death, the personality is extinguished, and a new personality comes back into the world to pay the burden or karma. The new personality knows nothing, but has to pay for everything. This is unjust.

Here is Ruth -- the poor child born with a horrible defect that will limit or shorten her life. Let's go into her room. We walk over to the bed where she lies. We look at her and then at her mother suffering along with Ruth. We offer a good word of comfort: "This child is working off Hitler's karma." Ruth has no chance because she cannot do any good or evil. Ruth dies without knowing what she did or how to improve. This is totally unjust.

But enough about the evil man. What about the righteous man? His lot in life is also unjust. Consider Rasheeb, a Hindu who gives himself totally to righteousness. He is promised in the Bhagavad-Gita:

"For one who worships Me, giving up all his activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, who has fixed his mind upon Me, O son of Prtha, for him I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death. Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always, without a doubt (12:6-8).

But the problem is this: Rasheeb dies. Between one life and the next, every single observable characteristic that defines Rasheeb is destroyed. When he is reincarnated to the next life, the next body and mind reaps the reward. What good did it do the righteous Rasheeb if only a blank mind and soul comes into the world again to enjoy the good karma of the past?

If reincarnation is really karma, or the "law of justice," why not give the person a full vision of what he has done in his past life. That would be justice. Let him remember his good deeds and his flaws in his past life. Thus he could both understand his predicament and correct his life for the future.

[link to www.churches-of-christ.net]


Thread: Reincarnation: Fact or fiction?
Ozicell

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10/07/2012 07:29 PM

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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
While I agree OP that Buddhism is a beautiful path, I have to tell you that it is also a religion as it involves traditions and rituals. This being the case, you have just chosen one religion over another, which of course you are free to do!
hf
That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon.
WindyMind

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10/07/2012 07:30 PM

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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
May your karma ripen quickly Valen.
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 07:32 PM
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
although, it is true that in order for the metaphysics
of The Buddha's teachings to make sense reincarnation is necessary.
Ozicell

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10/07/2012 07:32 PM

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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
belief in reincarnation is no different than some dumbass believing in God.
to each dumbass his own, i guess :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25122258


And I might add, so is the belief that there is nothing after death!
That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon.
ANHEDONIC

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10/07/2012 07:32 PM

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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
...


Salt, Your punctuation is what may be throwing others off on what you may have meant, including me. The illogical, inconsistant and false things you speak of are from Buddhism or from Christ?
 Quoting: Son of Thor


oh ok i see it.

the inconsistencies and illogical stuff is in buddhism, not Christianity.

like karma for instance. it simply does not pass the logical argument. neither does reincarnation. neither does matter being an illusion. these are ancient ideas that have proven to be inconsistent and illogical and incorrect merely from the passing of time and advancements in science, etc.
 Quoting: Salt


Relying on what sounds 'logical' is only using half of your brain, the left side. The right side goes beyond what is deemed 'logical' or 'rational'. The left-brain certainly has its limitations.

What's 'logical' is only a product of the present moment. Imagine traveling back 200 years and trying to describe the internet when they didn't even have electricity? What's illogical' today can be 'logical' in the future when the collective consciousness evolves.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


PLAIN AND SIMPLE LOGIC AND REASON - Non-Biblical

I. Reincarnation is Unworkable

The goal of reincarnation is to work off all bad karma until the "sound of silence" (the primordial state of the universe) returns once more. But there is a problem here. To believe that souls are working off their bad karma and gathering good karma, assumes that people are learning and improving. Things are getting better and each succeeding life is more enriched. By every rotation of the wheel, souls are getting closer to Nirvana. That is false.

To forever disprove that theory, all we have to do is visit India. That is the nation where reincarnation has been taught so forcefully for the longest period of time. There is where bad karma has been worked off and good karma has been building for centuries. Millions of people should be living easier and easier lives as they climb to higher life forms. Are they? No. India bears tragic witness to the failure of such a philosophy. Instead of being a glowing light for the world, India agonizes in rampant poverty, starvation, suffering and chaos. Its suffering increases daily. Millions of poor souls quietly despair and prepare to die, hoping that something better will be found in the next life.

Hindu followers defend the failure in India. They say that we should not "equate reincarnation with progress." They argue that reincarnation "only provides the opportunity for progress." That is disappointing. The very religion that calls for progress toward Nirvana does not guarantee progress? Why? Because there is no incentive to improve.

One cannot improve on a mistake he can't remember. If a person doesn't have any recollection of his past in the next life, he has no reason whatever to improve. Reincarnation sends you around again and again, but teaches you nothing. You remember nothing and improve none at all. Also, if you believe you are going around again and again, there is no motivation to change or improve anything right now. Generations come and go without progression in such a system. That is why the social order of most Hindu nations is below standard. The poor and uneducated languish in misery, generation after generation.

Karma can work only if people are getting better. And the truth is, people are not. If I do evil in life number one, I must pay for my bad Karma when I reincarnate. But if, in life number two, I do more wickedness when I am supposed to be burning off the bad from my first life -- then I have to pay for that new evil in life number three. But there I do more wickedness -- the cycle is endless and degenerates as it turns. I get further and further away from perfection, not closer.



**********************************************
**********************************************

2. Reincarnation is Illogical

A young man proudly announced to an older man, "I am a firm believer in reincarnation. It has all the answers for me." "Really?" asked the older man. "Tell me about it so I can believe it too. How many times have you been reincarnated?" "Uh, I don't know," stammered the youth. "What were you before you got to this point?" "I don't know." "What will you be next time?" "I don't know." How many more times must you go around before you are perfected?" "I don't know." "Where can you go to get the answers?" "I don't know." "Then how can you say it has all the answers?" asked the older man. "It doesn't have any answers. I will just stay with the Bible. Its truth is clear, plain and invites investigation. It has all the answers for everyone."

In reincarnation there are no answers. And where is the proof? The explanations that it offers us are totally lacking. The brain just cannot logically accept some of the things it teaches. For example, reincarnationists teach:

*That the world's population is basically stable. One Hindu writer said, "As one dies, another is born to take his place."

*Even when war or natural disaster reduces the population in one place, other places are experiencing prosperity and population growth. Thus overall, the world's population remains stable.

*There will, therefore, always be just enough souls to be reborn into all infant bodies, for there is a corresponding number of deaths and births.

*The human soul is not created but is eternal. Thus no new souls are being created to enter the cycle of rebirths.

*When a soul is sufficiently purified, it is absorbed back into "being" (out of our world into Nirvana).

The problems in such teaching are obvious: First, if no new souls are being created, yet the number of old souls are being absorbed back into "being," it should follow that the world population is decreasing. This is not true. Instead there are more people alive in this present generation than in any previous one.

Consider the following statistics of growth in the world:

A.D. 1575 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 500 Million people

1825 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 Billion people

1925 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 Billion people

1975 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Almost 4 Billion People

Second, since the world's population is increasing so rapidly, it is only obvious that there are not enough old souls to fit these new bodies. Where are they to come from? Does that mean that there are bodies walking around with no souls?

To answer this dilemma, many Hindu devotees claim that Karma is changing -- sending the needed souls up from insects and animals, evolving them into humans. They agree the world has more humans today, but claim we have less insects. However, that is not true either. And even if it were, why should the law of Karma change to accommodate the need for extra souls? And if karma changed, it cannot be a law at all. Personalities change, laws don't.

*********************************************
**********************************************



III. Reincarnation is Unjust

A mother brought her son to school for the first day of instruction. She went to the headmaster and said, "My son John is very shy, so if he misbehaves, just slap the student next to him, and John will learn his lesson and behave." Everybody knows that her suggestion was silly. Such could not be practiced because it is unjust. John has to face his own mistakes and take his own discipline.

And that is a huge problem with reincarnation: it is unjust.

Adolf Hitler ordered the deaths of at least six million jewish people in his lifetime. It could be said that he was responsible for the death of 60 million people all over the world; not to mention the evil he inflicted on those who survived. When he died in 1945, can you imagine the karma built up against him? Perhaps he has 60 million reincarnations of suffering to go through before getting back to where he was before he killed the jewish people or started World War II.

Let's assume that in 1960 (after a few short lives as a bug, a snake, three mice and a dog) Hitler is reincarnated as a crippled baby girl in New York City named Ruth Jones. Ruth has no idea that she is really Adolf Hitler reincarnated or that she is suffering for the crimes of the Nazi Fuhrer. It is at this point that karma justice breaks down completely. Hitler is gone, and his personality actually ceased to exist in 1945. Little Ruth now bears the massive burden of Hitler's karmic debt. She did nothing wrong, but karma strikes here anyway!

And little Ruth is only the first in a series of 60 million miserable lives spawned by the evil of Hitler. Ruth has to die in distress to let the next body pay for more karma. Now Hitler has affected the lives -- not just of 60 million who died in the war, but 60 million reincarnated people who are paying for the past deeds of their predecessors.

We are up to 120 million people now, and that is not even considering the sins committed by these 120 million that they must pay for later. And where is Hitler in all this? He hasn't paid for anything. Do you begin to see the injustice?

Reincarnation says that, in life, each of us is responsible for our own actions. Yet we are not. In death, the personality is extinguished, and a new personality comes back into the world to pay the burden or karma. The new personality knows nothing, but has to pay for everything. This is unjust.

Here is Ruth -- the poor child born with a horrible defect that will limit or shorten her life. Let's go into her room. We walk over to the bed where she lies. We look at her and then at her mother suffering along with Ruth. We offer a good word of comfort: "This child is working off Hitler's karma." Ruth has no chance because she cannot do any good or evil. Ruth dies without knowing what she did or how to improve. This is totally unjust.

But enough about the evil man. What about the righteous man? His lot in life is also unjust. Consider Rasheeb, a Hindu who gives himself totally to righteousness. He is promised in the Bhagavad-Gita:

"For one who worships Me, giving up all his activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, who has fixed his mind upon Me, O son of Prtha, for him I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death. Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always, without a doubt (12:6-8).

But the problem is this: Rasheeb dies. Between one life and the next, every single observable characteristic that defines Rasheeb is destroyed. When he is reincarnated to the next life, the next body and mind reaps the reward. What good did it do the righteous Rasheeb if only a blank mind and soul comes into the world again to enjoy the good karma of the past?

If reincarnation is really karma, or the "law of justice," why not give the person a full vision of what he has done in his past life. That would be justice. Let him remember his good deeds and his flaws in his past life. Thus he could both understand his predicament and correct his life for the future.

[link to www.churches-of-christ.net]


Thread: Reincarnation: Fact or fiction?
 Quoting: Salt


Sorry Salt, I don't subscribe to copy & paste jobs from a 3rd party's belief system(s). If you want to tell me how YOU feel about this subject matter, I am all ears. I read through your thread and you attempted to state you were 'open-minded' about this subject matter but on Page 1 you said that you found reincarnation to be 'detestable'. You cannot be open-minded about a subject matter when you invoke strong emotions into your consciousness instead of remaining emotionally neutral before forming an opinion. If you found it 'detestable' from the onset then it's obvious why you have sought out information that supports your opinion, to do otherwise would be uncomfortable.

'Logic & Reason' does not answer the well-documented phenomena of children recalling past lives and information from those lives that they could not have ascertained from any other source.

Last Edited by ANHEDONIC on 10/07/2012 07:35 PM

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21291600
United States
10/07/2012 07:36 PM
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
...


oh ok i see it.

the inconsistencies and illogical stuff is in buddhism, not Christianity.

like karma for instance. it simply does not pass the logical argument. neither does reincarnation. neither does matter being an illusion. these are ancient ideas that have proven to be inconsistent and illogical and incorrect merely from the passing of time and advancements in science, etc.
 Quoting: Salt


Relying on what sounds 'logical' is only using half of your brain, the left side. The right side goes beyond what is deemed 'logical' or 'rational'. The left-brain certainly has its limitations.

What's 'logical' is only a product of the present moment. Imagine traveling back 200 years and trying to describe the internet when they didn't even have electricity? What's illogical' today can be 'logical' in the future when the collective consciousness evolves.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


PLAIN AND SIMPLE LOGIC AND REASON - Non-Biblical

I. Reincarnation is Unworkable

The goal of reincarnation is to work off all bad karma until the "sound of silence" (the primordial state of the universe) returns once more. But there is a problem here. To believe that souls are working off their bad karma and gathering good karma, assumes that people are learning and improving. Things are getting better and each succeeding life is more enriched. By every rotation of the wheel, souls are getting closer to Nirvana. That is false.

To forever disprove that theory, all we have to do is visit India. That is the nation where reincarnation has been taught so forcefully for the longest period of time. There is where bad karma has been worked off and good karma has been building for centuries. Millions of people should be living easier and easier lives as they climb to higher life forms. Are they? No. India bears tragic witness to the failure of such a philosophy. Instead of being a glowing light for the world, India agonizes in rampant poverty, starvation, suffering and chaos. Its suffering increases daily. Millions of poor souls quietly despair and prepare to die, hoping that something better will be found in the next life.

Hindu followers defend the failure in India. They say that we should not "equate reincarnation with progress." They argue that reincarnation "only provides the opportunity for progress." That is disappointing. The very religion that calls for progress toward Nirvana does not guarantee progress? Why? Because there is no incentive to improve.

One cannot improve on a mistake he can't remember. If a person doesn't have any recollection of his past in the next life, he has no reason whatever to improve. Reincarnation sends you around again and again, but teaches you nothing. You remember nothing and improve none at all. Also, if you believe you are going around again and again, there is no motivation to change or improve anything right now. Generations come and go without progression in such a system. That is why the social order of most Hindu nations is below standard. The poor and uneducated languish in misery, generation after generation.

Karma can work only if people are getting better. And the truth is, people are not. If I do evil in life number one, I must pay for my bad Karma when I reincarnate. But if, in life number two, I do more wickedness when I am supposed to be burning off the bad from my first life -- then I have to pay for that new evil in life number three. But there I do more wickedness -- the cycle is endless and degenerates as it turns. I get further and further away from perfection, not closer.



**********************************************
**********************************************

2. Reincarnation is Illogical

A young man proudly announced to an older man, "I am a firm believer in reincarnation. It has all the answers for me." "Really?" asked the older man. "Tell me about it so I can believe it too. How many times have you been reincarnated?" "Uh, I don't know," stammered the youth. "What were you before you got to this point?" "I don't know." "What will you be next time?" "I don't know." How many more times must you go around before you are perfected?" "I don't know." "Where can you go to get the answers?" "I don't know." "Then how can you say it has all the answers?" asked the older man. "It doesn't have any answers. I will just stay with the Bible. Its truth is clear, plain and invites investigation. It has all the answers for everyone."

In reincarnation there are no answers. And where is the proof? The explanations that it offers us are totally lacking. The brain just cannot logically accept some of the things it teaches. For example, reincarnationists teach:

*That the world's population is basically stable. One Hindu writer said, "As one dies, another is born to take his place."

*Even when war or natural disaster reduces the population in one place, other places are experiencing prosperity and population growth. Thus overall, the world's population remains stable.

*There will, therefore, always be just enough souls to be reborn into all infant bodies, for there is a corresponding number of deaths and births.

*The human soul is not created but is eternal. Thus no new souls are being created to enter the cycle of rebirths.

*When a soul is sufficiently purified, it is absorbed back into "being" (out of our world into Nirvana).

The problems in such teaching are obvious: First, if no new souls are being created, yet the number of old souls are being absorbed back into "being," it should follow that the world population is decreasing. This is not true. Instead there are more people alive in this present generation than in any previous one.

Consider the following statistics of growth in the world:

A.D. 1575 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 500 Million people

1825 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 Billion people

1925 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 Billion people

1975 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Almost 4 Billion People

Second, since the world's population is increasing so rapidly, it is only obvious that there are not enough old souls to fit these new bodies. Where are they to come from? Does that mean that there are bodies walking around with no souls?

To answer this dilemma, many Hindu devotees claim that Karma is changing -- sending the needed souls up from insects and animals, evolving them into humans. They agree the world has more humans today, but claim we have less insects. However, that is not true either. And even if it were, why should the law of Karma change to accommodate the need for extra souls? And if karma changed, it cannot be a law at all. Personalities change, laws don't.

*********************************************
**********************************************



III. Reincarnation is Unjust

A mother brought her son to school for the first day of instruction. She went to the headmaster and said, "My son John is very shy, so if he misbehaves, just slap the student next to him, and John will learn his lesson and behave." Everybody knows that her suggestion was silly. Such could not be practiced because it is unjust. John has to face his own mistakes and take his own discipline.

And that is a huge problem with reincarnation: it is unjust.

Adolf Hitler ordered the deaths of at least six million jewish people in his lifetime. It could be said that he was responsible for the death of 60 million people all over the world; not to mention the evil he inflicted on those who survived. When he died in 1945, can you imagine the karma built up against him? Perhaps he has 60 million reincarnations of suffering to go through before getting back to where he was before he killed the jewish people or started World War II.

Let's assume that in 1960 (after a few short lives as a bug, a snake, three mice and a dog) Hitler is reincarnated as a crippled baby girl in New York City named Ruth Jones. Ruth has no idea that she is really Adolf Hitler reincarnated or that she is suffering for the crimes of the Nazi Fuhrer. It is at this point that karma justice breaks down completely. Hitler is gone, and his personality actually ceased to exist in 1945. Little Ruth now bears the massive burden of Hitler's karmic debt. She did nothing wrong, but karma strikes here anyway!

And little Ruth is only the first in a series of 60 million miserable lives spawned by the evil of Hitler. Ruth has to die in distress to let the next body pay for more karma. Now Hitler has affected the lives -- not just of 60 million who died in the war, but 60 million reincarnated people who are paying for the past deeds of their predecessors.

We are up to 120 million people now, and that is not even considering the sins committed by these 120 million that they must pay for later. And where is Hitler in all this? He hasn't paid for anything. Do you begin to see the injustice?

Reincarnation says that, in life, each of us is responsible for our own actions. Yet we are not. In death, the personality is extinguished, and a new personality comes back into the world to pay the burden or karma. The new personality knows nothing, but has to pay for everything. This is unjust.

Here is Ruth -- the poor child born with a horrible defect that will limit or shorten her life. Let's go into her room. We walk over to the bed where she lies. We look at her and then at her mother suffering along with Ruth. We offer a good word of comfort: "This child is working off Hitler's karma." Ruth has no chance because she cannot do any good or evil. Ruth dies without knowing what she did or how to improve. This is totally unjust.

But enough about the evil man. What about the righteous man? His lot in life is also unjust. Consider Rasheeb, a Hindu who gives himself totally to righteousness. He is promised in the Bhagavad-Gita:

"For one who worships Me, giving up all his activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, who has fixed his mind upon Me, O son of Prtha, for him I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death. Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always, without a doubt (12:6-8).

But the problem is this: Rasheeb dies. Between one life and the next, every single observable characteristic that defines Rasheeb is destroyed. When he is reincarnated to the next life, the next body and mind reaps the reward. What good did it do the righteous Rasheeb if only a blank mind and soul comes into the world again to enjoy the good karma of the past?

If reincarnation is really karma, or the "law of justice," why not give the person a full vision of what he has done in his past life. That would be justice. Let him remember his good deeds and his flaws in his past life. Thus he could both understand his predicament and correct his life for the future.

[link to www.churches-of-christ.net]


Thread: Reincarnation: Fact or fiction?
 Quoting: Salt


Sorry Salt, I don't subscribe to copy & paste jobs from a 3rd party's belief system(s). I read through your thread and you attempted to state you were 'open-minded' about this subject matter but on Page 1 you said that you found reincarnation to be 'detestable'. You cannot be open-minded about a subject matter when you invoke strong emotions into your consciousness instead of remaining emotionally neutral before forming an opinion. If you found it 'detestable' from the onset then it's obvious why you have sought out information that supports your opinion, to do otherwise would be uncomfortable.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


that is the silliest argument i have ever heard. the subject of the illogical nature of the facets of buddhism is a huge topic and study. why should i spend lots of time typing something out that is already articulated in one of my threads and from a source of data?

the whole "i won't accept this teaching because you copied and pasted it from a source of info" is just bullshit.

you don't want to accept it because it doesn't agree with your already biased and illogical line of thinking.

it has nothing to do with copy and paste.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
While I agree OP that Buddhism is a beautiful path, I have to tell you that it is also a religion as it involves traditions and rituals. This being the case, you have just chosen one religion over another, which of course you are free to do!
hf
 Quoting: Ozicell


Beautifully Expressed.

It is As it is ......

[link to thesixthperspective.com]

Best
Ozicell

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10/07/2012 07:44 PM

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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
If reincarnation exists - and I for one believe it does - then so called Karma is not it's main purpose! Rather I see reincarnation as the eternal experience of the Now! But that's just MHO!
hf
That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon.
Ozicell

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10/07/2012 07:45 PM

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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
While I agree OP that Buddhism is a beautiful path, I have to tell you that it is also a religion as it involves traditions and rituals. This being the case, you have just chosen one religion over another, which of course you are free to do!
hf
 Quoting: Ozicell


Beautifully Expressed.

It is As it is ......

[link to thesixthperspective.com]

Best
 Quoting: Sixth Perspective


TY hf
That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon.
Life and Love
Live life fully!

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10/07/2012 07:47 PM
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
If reincarnation exists - and I for one believe it does - then so called Karma is not it's main purpose! Rather I see reincarnation as the eternal experience of the Now! But that's just MHO!
hf
 Quoting: Ozicell


According to the teachings of the Buddha, if reincarnation really exists, we're all screwed!

He taught that the probability of a human life's next incarnation being another human life was as rare as a few grains of sand vs. the entire seashore.

Good luck with that!
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
ANHEDONIC

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10/07/2012 07:51 PM

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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
that is the silliest argument i have ever heard. the subject of the illogical nature of the facets of buddhism is a huge topic and study. why should i spend lots of time typing something out that is already articulated in one of my threads and from a source of data?

the whole "i won't accept this teaching because you copied and pasted it from a source of info" is just bullshit.

you don't want to accept it because it doesn't agree with your already biased and illogical line of thinking.

it has nothing to do with copy and paste.
 Quoting: Salt


Haha Salt you started a thread and shared none of your original ideas (until challenged), just copy & paste jobs that supported your own opinion.

Also, the information you just pasted above came from a site called -

churches-of-christ.net

Big shocker that the information posted does not support reincarnation! LOL.

You find reincarnation detestable so you have already made up your mind based on EMOTION.... That's letting your EGO lead you.

I dare you to read some books that will dissolve the misconceptions that you have about the subject matter, if you're ready to do so!

[link to www.amazon.com]
For the past forty years, doctors at the University of Virginia Medical Center have conducted research into young children’s reports of past-life memories. Dr. Ian Stevenson, the founder of this work, has always written for a scientific audience. Now, in this provocative and fascinating book, Dr. Jim B. Tucker, a child psychiatrist who currently directs the research, shares these studies with the general public. Life Before Life is a landmark work—one that has the potential to challenge and ultimately change our understandings about life and death.
Children who report past-life memories typically begin talking spontaneously about a previous life when they are two to three years old. Some talk about the life of a deceased family member, while others describe the life of a stranger. They may recount details about previous family members, events in the previous life, or the way they died in that life. The children tend to show a strong emotional involvement with the apparent memories and often cry to be taken to the previous family. In many cases, parents have taken their children to the places they named, where they found that an individual had died whose life matched the details given by the child. During the visits, some children have recognized family members or friends from that individual’s life. Many children have had birthmarks that matched wounds on the body of the deceased individual.
Researchers have studied more than 2500 such cases, and their careful investigations have produced an impressive body of work. JAMA, the Journal of the American Medical Association, stated in a review of one of Dr. Stevenson’s scientific books that, “in regard to reincarnation he has painstakingly and unemotionally collected a detailed series of cases . . . in which the evidence is difficult to explain on any other grounds.


University of Virginia Department website that studies this from an objective vantage point:

[link to www.medicine.virginia.edu]

[link to www.amazon.com]
Psychiatry and metaphysics blend together in this fascinating book based on a true case history. Dr. Weiss, who was once firmly entrenched in a clinical approach to psychiatry, finds himself reluctantly drawn into past-life therapy when a hypnotized client suddenly reveals details of her previous lives. During one hypnosis session his client introduces the spirit guides who have been her soul therapists in between lives. This is when the story really takes off for Weiss, who discovers that these guides have specific messages about his dead son as well as Weiss's mission in life. No, we cannot verify the truth of this story using the limited scientific tools we have available. However, it is hard to dispute that this well-respected graduate of Columbia University and Yale Medical School has discovered a personal truth that has led him to be an enormously popular speaker, author, and leader in the field of past-life therapy. --Gail Hudson


[link to www.amazon.com]
"Soul Survivor describes the case of James Leininger, a spectacular example of the phenomenon of young children who seem to remember previous lives. We are fortunate that one of our guides for the story is James' father Bruce, who approaches the situation with a critical attitude. His insistence on doubting each piece of information until it can be verified makes the eventual conclusion that James's parents reach--that he is indeed remembering the life of a deceased World War II pilot--well-earned. Anyone interested in the possibility of past-life memories, or anyone who thinks it can be easily dismissed, needs to read this book. " --Jim B. Tucker, M.D., Assistant Professor of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences at the University of Virginia and author of Life Before Life: A Scientific Investigation of Children's Memories of Previous Lives





This information is out there if you seek it with an open mind. But you have already closed yourself off to it because of emotion you have invoked. You don't want reincarnation to be a valid phenomena so you will intentionally seek out information that speaks against it.

I encourage you to read the books and research children's past lives and tell me the logical & rational explanation for why the phenomena exists.

Last Edited by ANHEDONIC on 10/07/2012 07:57 PM

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Ozicell

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10/07/2012 07:52 PM

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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
If reincarnation exists - and I for one believe it does - then so called Karma is not it's main purpose! Rather I see reincarnation as the eternal experience of the Now! But that's just MHO!
hf
 Quoting: Ozicell


According to the teachings of the Buddha, if reincarnation really exists, we're all screwed!

He taught that the probability of a human life's next incarnation being another human life was as rare as a few grains of sand vs. the entire seashore.

Good luck with that!
 Quoting: Life and Love


I agree with him partially, as far as my beliefs go, reincarnation need not necessarily be back to this world! As I believe I stated, I understand reincarnation to be about experience, not karma!
That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon.
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 07:54 PM
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
that is the silliest argument i have ever heard. the subject of the illogical nature of the facets of buddhism is a huge topic and study. why should i spend lots of time typing something out that is already articulated in one of my threads and from a source of data?

the whole "i won't accept this teaching because you copied and pasted it from a source of info" is just bullshit.

you don't want to accept it because it doesn't agree with your already biased and illogical line of thinking.

it has nothing to do with copy and paste.
 Quoting: Salt


Haha Salt you started a thread and shared none of your original ideas (until challenged), just copy & paste jobs that supported your own opinion.

Also, the information you just pasted above came from a site called -

churches-of-christ.net

Big shocker that the information posted does not support reincarnation! LOL.

You find reincarnation detestable so you have already made up your mind based on EMOTION.... That's letting your EGO lead you.

I dare you to read some books that will dissolve the misconceptions that you have about the subject matter, if you're ready to do so!

[link to www.amazon.com]
For the past forty years, doctors at the University of Virginia Medical Center have conducted research into young children’s reports of past-life memories. Dr. Ian Stevenson, the founder of this work, has always written for a scientific audience. Now, in this provocative and fascinating book, Dr. Jim B. Tucker, a child psychiatrist who currently directs the research, shares these studies with the general public. Life Before Life is a landmark work—one that has the potential to challenge and ultimately change our understandings about life and death.
Children who report past-life memories typically begin talking spontaneously about a previous life when they are two to three years old. Some talk about the life of a deceased family member, while others describe the life of a stranger. They may recount details about previous family members, events in the previous life, or the way they died in that life. The children tend to show a strong emotional involvement with the apparent memories and often cry to be taken to the previous family. In many cases, parents have taken their children to the places they named, where they found that an individual had died whose life matched the details given by the child. During the visits, some children have recognized family members or friends from that individual’s life. Many children have had birthmarks that matched wounds on the body of the deceased individual.
Researchers have studied more than 2500 such cases, and their careful investigations have produced an impressive body of work. JAMA, the Journal of the American Medical Association, stated in a review of one of Dr. Stevenson’s scientific books that, “in regard to reincarnation he has painstakingly and unemotionally collected a detailed series of cases . . . in which the evidence is difficult to explain on any other grounds.


University of Virginia Department website that studies this from an objective vantage point:

[link to www.medicine.virginia.edu]

[link to www.amazon.com]
Psychiatry and metaphysics blend together in this fascinating book based on a true case history. Dr. Weiss, who was once firmly entrenched in a clinical approach to psychiatry, finds himself reluctantly drawn into past-life therapy when a hypnotized client suddenly reveals details of her previous lives. During one hypnosis session his client introduces the spirit guides who have been her soul therapists in between lives. This is when the story really takes off for Weiss, who discovers that these guides have specific messages about his dead son as well as Weiss's mission in life. No, we cannot verify the truth of this story using the limited scientific tools we have available. However, it is hard to dispute that this well-respected graduate of Columbia University and Yale Medical School has discovered a personal truth that has led him to be an enormously popular speaker, author, and leader in the field of past-life therapy. --Gail Hudson

In 1980, Weiss, head of the psychiatry department at Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami Beach, began treating Catherine, a 27-year-old woman plagued by anxiety, depression and phobias. When Weiss turned to hypnosis to help Catherine remember repressed childhood traumas, what emerged were the patient's descriptions of a dozen or so of her hitherto unknown 86 past lives, as well as philosophical messages channeled from "Master Spirits." Catherine's anxieties and phobias soon disappeared, says Weiss, and she was able to end therapy. The previously nonspiritual, scientific Weiss, awed by Catherine's and the masters' revelations, has written this book to share his new-found knowledge about "immortality and the true meaning of life." Whether or not one believes in reincarnation and channeling, Weiss's book will disappoint. Catherine's descriptions of her past lives are not particularly compelling or insightful. Moreover, the teachings of the Master Spirits ("We are not to kill. . . . Only God can punish," "Charity, hope, faith, love . . . we must all know these things," and "Our body is just a vehicle for us while we're here. It is our soul and our spirit that last forever"), while admirable and comforting, are little more than restatements of traditional religious values.





That information is out there if you seek it with an open mind. But you have already closed yourself off to it because of emotion.

I encourage you to read the books and research children's past lives and tell me the logical & rational explanation for why the phenomena exists.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


it is blaringly obvious that you did not read the data i provided - regardless of the source.

it clearly shows, in simple "math" why the principles of karma and reincarnation (and matter is an illusion) are completely irrational, illogical, make no sense.

read it. then come back to me and tell me how it is wrong.
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 07:54 PM
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
btw, if i create a thread, it is my idea and something that i agree with.

there is nothing original on the earth.

your argument is illogical.
ANHEDONIC

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10/07/2012 08:00 PM

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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
that is the silliest argument i have ever heard. the subject of the illogical nature of the facets of buddhism is a huge topic and study. why should i spend lots of time typing something out that is already articulated in one of my threads and from a source of data?

the whole "i won't accept this teaching because you copied and pasted it from a source of info" is just bullshit.

you don't want to accept it because it doesn't agree with your already biased and illogical line of thinking.

it has nothing to do with copy and paste.
 Quoting: Salt


Haha Salt you started a thread and shared none of your original ideas (until challenged), just copy & paste jobs that supported your own opinion.

Also, the information you just pasted above came from a site called -

churches-of-christ.net

Big shocker that the information posted does not support reincarnation! LOL.

You find reincarnation detestable so you have already made up your mind based on EMOTION.... That's letting your EGO lead you.

I dare you to read some books that will dissolve the misconceptions that you have about the subject matter, if you're ready to do so!

[link to www.amazon.com]
For the past forty years, doctors at the University of Virginia Medical Center have conducted research into young children’s reports of past-life memories. Dr. Ian Stevenson, the founder of this work, has always written for a scientific audience. Now, in this provocative and fascinating book, Dr. Jim B. Tucker, a child psychiatrist who currently directs the research, shares these studies with the general public. Life Before Life is a landmark work—one that has the potential to challenge and ultimately change our understandings about life and death.
Children who report past-life memories typically begin talking spontaneously about a previous life when they are two to three years old. Some talk about the life of a deceased family member, while others describe the life of a stranger. They may recount details about previous family members, events in the previous life, or the way they died in that life. The children tend to show a strong emotional involvement with the apparent memories and often cry to be taken to the previous family. In many cases, parents have taken their children to the places they named, where they found that an individual had died whose life matched the details given by the child. During the visits, some children have recognized family members or friends from that individual’s life. Many children have had birthmarks that matched wounds on the body of the deceased individual.
Researchers have studied more than 2500 such cases, and their careful investigations have produced an impressive body of work. JAMA, the Journal of the American Medical Association, stated in a review of one of Dr. Stevenson’s scientific books that, “in regard to reincarnation he has painstakingly and unemotionally collected a detailed series of cases . . . in which the evidence is difficult to explain on any other grounds.


University of Virginia Department website that studies this from an objective vantage point:

[link to www.medicine.virginia.edu]

[link to www.amazon.com]
Psychiatry and metaphysics blend together in this fascinating book based on a true case history. Dr. Weiss, who was once firmly entrenched in a clinical approach to psychiatry, finds himself reluctantly drawn into past-life therapy when a hypnotized client suddenly reveals details of her previous lives. During one hypnosis session his client introduces the spirit guides who have been her soul therapists in between lives. This is when the story really takes off for Weiss, who discovers that these guides have specific messages about his dead son as well as Weiss's mission in life. No, we cannot verify the truth of this story using the limited scientific tools we have available. However, it is hard to dispute that this well-respected graduate of Columbia University and Yale Medical School has discovered a personal truth that has led him to be an enormously popular speaker, author, and leader in the field of past-life therapy. --Gail Hudson

In 1980, Weiss, head of the psychiatry department at Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami Beach, began treating Catherine, a 27-year-old woman plagued by anxiety, depression and phobias. When Weiss turned to hypnosis to help Catherine remember repressed childhood traumas, what emerged were the patient's descriptions of a dozen or so of her hitherto unknown 86 past lives, as well as philosophical messages channeled from "Master Spirits." Catherine's anxieties and phobias soon disappeared, says Weiss, and she was able to end therapy. The previously nonspiritual, scientific Weiss, awed by Catherine's and the masters' revelations, has written this book to share his new-found knowledge about "immortality and the true meaning of life." Whether or not one believes in reincarnation and channeling, Weiss's book will disappoint. Catherine's descriptions of her past lives are not particularly compelling or insightful. Moreover, the teachings of the Master Spirits ("We are not to kill. . . . Only God can punish," "Charity, hope, faith, love . . . we must all know these things," and "Our body is just a vehicle for us while we're here. It is our soul and our spirit that last forever"), while admirable and comforting, are little more than restatements of traditional religious values.





That information is out there if you seek it with an open mind. But you have already closed yourself off to it because of emotion.

I encourage you to read the books and research children's past lives and tell me the logical & rational explanation for why the phenomena exists.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


it is blaringly obvious that you did not read the data i provided - regardless of the source.

it clearly shows, in simple "math" why the principles of karma and reincarnation (and matter is an illusion) are completely irrational, illogical, make no sense.

read it. then come back to me and tell me how it is wrong.
 Quoting: Salt


Read those books Salt and tell me if you still subscribe to your left-brain analysis of why reincarnation is not 'logical'. Hell, I'll even buy the books for you if you'd like. Want me to send you some books that open your mind up to things you have closed yourself off too?

You never stated why you find reincarnation to be 'detestable'. You said you have a blessed life and would not change a thing in your thread, so why is the thought of living another life so detestable?

P.S. I read your pasted information and it's completely missing the mark. You are taking the wrong approach to trying to understand a concept that transcends our programmed/conditioned understanding of our reality. You won't find much success raising your conscious awareness by relying on only what you think you know or knew.

Last Edited by ANHEDONIC on 10/07/2012 08:03 PM

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Ozicell

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10/07/2012 08:02 PM

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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
btw, if i create a thread, it is my idea and something that i agree with.

there is nothing original on the earth.

your argument is illogical.
 Quoting: Salt


Hi Salt,

I just wanted to chime in and tell you that I love your biblical quotes! Both are favourites of mine.
hf
"The only religion that God the Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being ensnared by the world." --James 1:27

“Read everything, listen to everybody, don’t trust anything unless you can prove it with your own research” --William Cooper


On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” --Luke 10:25-28
That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon.
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 08:15 PM
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
Reincarnation is a fact but not as it is commonly understood.

Just as " Soul " is a fact but not as commonly understood.

In the case of reincarnation; when it is assumed as a mental construct then it becomes a simplistic linear progression. It is actually far broader than that. What appears on this plane of existence to be separate is upon more refined planes seen as collective. Reincarnation therefore is occurring in every moment and is not limited to one animate or indeed inanimate object. From a higher perspective two or more separate entities upon this plane can be and are reincarnated aspects of the same collective soul expression. As the human understanding of time is so limited the use of the term reincarnation becomes, more often than not, redundant.

The same principal applies to the word " Soul." The implication so often assumed is that " I have a Soul " whereas it is the " I " that thinks it has a soul that is illusory, a mental construct based upon the five senses and the coagulation of thoughts into the perception of a self. The mental construct of " I " is actually within " Soul " and to recognize and Realize that " Soul " is the point of the human experience.

The heart is the gateway to the Soul, remembering that this is just the beginning of the journey. This is really what " awakening " refers to.

Ultimately, through the heart (not in), consciousness is released from this plane and the Bliss of Knowing Self as One returning home is experienced.

Nothing is hidden.

Best.
Libra II
User ID: 1001450
Denmark
10/07/2012 08:17 PM
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
oh,and just one more thing, lets see where will be that serenity and peace and love when the great tribulation begins, then we will really see...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21718326


every day is a walk in the park for a buddhist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25122258


A walk in the park, a shit in the dark.
ANHEDONIC

User ID: 23579473
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10/07/2012 08:18 PM

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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
Reincarnation is a fact but not as it is commonly understood.

Just as " Soul " is a fact but not as commonly understood.

In the case of reincarnation; when it is assumed as a mental construct then it becomes a simplistic linear progression. It is actually far broader than that. What appears on this plane of existence to be separate is upon more refined planes seen as collective. Reincarnation therefore is occurring in every moment and is not limited to one animate or indeed inanimate object. From a higher perspective two or more separate entities upon this plane can be and are reincarnated aspects of the same collective soul expression. As the human understanding of time is so limited the use of the term reincarnation becomes, more often than not, redundant.

The same principal applies to the word " Soul." The implication so often assumed is that " I have a Soul " whereas it is the " I " that thinks it has a soul that is illusory, a mental construct based upon the five senses and the coagulation of thoughts into the perception of a self. The mental construct of " I " is actually within " Soul " and to recognize and Realize that " Soul " is the point of the human experience.

The heart is the gateway to the Soul, remembering that this is just the beginning of the journey. This is really what " awakening " refers to.

Ultimately, through the heart (not in), consciousness is released from this plane and the Bliss of Knowing Self as One returning home is experienced.

Nothing is hidden.

Best.
 Quoting: Sixth Perspective


Misconceptions scare people away unfortunately.

I grew up dismissing the idea.

My exploration into the greater nature of our 'existence' led me to finally understand otherwise.

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 08:23 PM
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
Reincarnation is a fact but not as it is commonly understood.

Just as " Soul " is a fact but not as commonly understood.

In the case of reincarnation; when it is assumed as a mental construct then it becomes a simplistic linear progression. It is actually far broader than that. What appears on this plane of existence to be separate is upon more refined planes seen as collective. Reincarnation therefore is occurring in every moment and is not limited to one animate or indeed inanimate object. From a higher perspective two or more separate entities upon this plane can be and are reincarnated aspects of the same collective soul expression. As the human understanding of time is so limited the use of the term reincarnation becomes, more often than not, redundant.

The same principal applies to the word " Soul." The implication so often assumed is that " I have a Soul " whereas it is the " I " that thinks it has a soul that is illusory, a mental construct based upon the five senses and the coagulation of thoughts into the perception of a self. The mental construct of " I " is actually within " Soul " and to recognize and Realize that " Soul " is the point of the human experience.

The heart is the gateway to the Soul, remembering that this is just the beginning of the journey. This is really what " awakening " refers to.

Ultimately, through the heart (not in), consciousness is released from this plane and the Bliss of Knowing Self as One returning home is experienced.

Nothing is hidden.

Best.
 Quoting: Sixth Perspective


Misconceptions scare people away unfortunately.

I grew up dismissing the idea.

My exploration into the greater nature of our 'existence' led me to finally understand otherwise.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Whilst the Eckhart Tolle quote in your signature resonates I do not understand the statements in your post.

Is there a question in there ?
ANHEDONIC

User ID: 23579473
United States
10/07/2012 08:32 PM

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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
Reincarnation is a fact but not as it is commonly understood.

Just as " Soul " is a fact but not as commonly understood.

In the case of reincarnation; when it is assumed as a mental construct then it becomes a simplistic linear progression. It is actually far broader than that. What appears on this plane of existence to be separate is upon more refined planes seen as collective. Reincarnation therefore is occurring in every moment and is not limited to one animate or indeed inanimate object. From a higher perspective two or more separate entities upon this plane can be and are reincarnated aspects of the same collective soul expression. As the human understanding of time is so limited the use of the term reincarnation becomes, more often than not, redundant.

The same principal applies to the word " Soul." The implication so often assumed is that " I have a Soul " whereas it is the " I " that thinks it has a soul that is illusory, a mental construct based upon the five senses and the coagulation of thoughts into the perception of a self. The mental construct of " I " is actually within " Soul " and to recognize and Realize that " Soul " is the point of the human experience.

The heart is the gateway to the Soul, remembering that this is just the beginning of the journey. This is really what " awakening " refers to.

Ultimately, through the heart (not in), consciousness is released from this plane and the Bliss of Knowing Self as One returning home is experienced.

Nothing is hidden.

Best.
 Quoting: Sixth Perspective


Misconceptions scare people away unfortunately.

I grew up dismissing the idea.

My exploration into the greater nature of our 'existence' led me to finally understand otherwise.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Whilst the Eckhart Tolle quote in your signature resonates I do not understand the statements in your post.

Is there a question in there ?
 Quoting: Sixth Perspective


I was expanding on the point you made. You said quote:

"Reincarnation is a fact but not as it is commonly understood."

I elaborated on that point by saying that misconceptions often scare people away from the subject matter. People often only rely on surface level generalizations or assumptions about a novel subject matter and form an opinion based on that limited exposure and understanding without investigating the 'details'. Seldom does a person reserve judgement and remain emotionally neutral before exploring a controversial field or subject before forming a concrete opinion. I was myself a victim of misconceptions. When I was young I ASSUMED that reincarnating meant that when you died you were immediately reborn again into another body with no conscious awareness in between lifetimes and through no conscious decision of your own. To my young mind it was the equivalent of ceasing to exist. That scared me away from the subject matter as it was too emotionally painful to accept those preconceived generalizations about the subject matter, which illustrates the point being made. Before conducting an honest exploration into the concept, many will conceive reincarnation to be more like a trap or as a negative outcome, rather than a tool (or opportunity) by which to evolve and to grow.

Last Edited by ANHEDONIC on 10/07/2012 08:42 PM

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 08:37 PM
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
i used to be a buddhist. i am no longer, but i still adhere to many of the practical life principles. things like detachment, balance is the middle way, etc. lots of good stuff in there, Jesus said the same stuff. but, also lots of illogical, inconsistent, and false things in there too. be careful...

Thread: Reincarnation: Fact or fiction?
 Quoting: Salt


Salt, Your punctuation is what may be throwing others off on what you may have meant, including me. The illogical, inconsistant and false things you speak of are from Buddhism or from Christ?
 Quoting: Son of Thor


oh ok i see it.

the inconsistencies and illogical stuff is in buddhism, not Christianity.

like karma for instance. it simply does not pass the logical argument. neither does reincarnation. neither does matter being an illusion. these are ancient ideas that have proven to be inconsistent and illogical and incorrect merely from the passing of time and advancements in science, etc.
 Quoting: Salt


Relying on what sounds 'logical' is only using half of your brain, the left side. The right side goes beyond what is deemed 'logical' or 'rational'. The left-brain certainly has its limitations.

What's 'logical' is only a product of the present moment. Imagine traveling back 200 years and trying to describe the internet when they didn't even have electricity? What's illogical' today can be 'logical' in the future when the collective consciousness evolves.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


This.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21291600
United States
10/07/2012 08:41 PM
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
interesting definition of logic. however, it is wrong.

1.
the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
2.
a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic.
3.
the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.
4.
reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move.
5.
convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts.

[link to dictionary.reference.com]
ANHEDONIC

User ID: 23579473
United States
10/07/2012 08:43 PM

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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
interesting definition of logic. however, it is wrong.

1.
the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
2.
a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic.
3.
the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.
4.
reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move.
5.
convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts.

[link to dictionary.reference.com]
 Quoting: Salt


You are still relying on only your left-brain functions to understand a concept that transcends what has been taught to you to be 'logical' and 'rational'. Your left brain is a mirror of what's been fed to it. There are two hemispheres of the brain for a reason.

I can post interviews of DOCTORS who research reincarnation if that makes you happy Salt. They've already authored books documenting their research and the 'evidence' that points to this being a valid phenomena. However I don't think you really care to explore the subject matter any further than you already have though (which is perfectly fine). Let me know if I'm wrong.

Last Edited by ANHEDONIC on 10/07/2012 08:46 PM

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19726934
United States
10/07/2012 08:45 PM
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Re: Why I pick Buddhism over Religion, and achieve a higher level of serenity over religious people
Reincarnation is a fact but not as it is commonly understood.

Just as " Soul " is a fact but not as commonly understood.

In the case of reincarnation; when it is assumed as a mental construct then it becomes a simplistic linear progression. It is actually far broader than that. What appears on this plane of existence to be separate is upon more refined planes seen as collective. Reincarnation therefore is occurring in every moment and is not limited to one animate or indeed inanimate object. From a higher perspective two or more separate entities upon this plane can be and are reincarnated aspects of the same collective soul expression. As the human understanding of time is so limited the use of the term reincarnation becomes, more often than not, redundant.

The same principal applies to the word " Soul." The implication so often assumed is that " I have a Soul " whereas it is the " I " that thinks it has a soul that is illusory, a mental construct based upon the five senses and the coagulation of thoughts into the perception of a self. The mental construct of " I " is actually within " Soul " and to recognize and Realize that " Soul " is the point of the human experience.

The heart is the gateway to the Soul, remembering that this is just the beginning of the journey. This is really what " awakening " refers to.

Ultimately, through the heart (not in), consciousness is released from this plane and the Bliss of Knowing Self as One returning home is experienced.

Nothing is hidden.

Best.
 Quoting: Sixth Perspective


Misconceptions scare people away unfortunately.

I grew up dismissing the idea.

My exploration into the greater nature of our 'existence' led me to finally understand otherwise.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Whilst the Eckhart Tolle quote in your signature resonates I do not understand the statements in your post.

Is there a question in there ?
 Quoting: Sixth Perspective


I was expanding on the point you made. You said quote:

"Reincarnation is a fact but not as it is commonly understood."

I elaborated on that point by saying that misconceptions often scare people away from the subject matter. People often only rely on surface level generalizations or assumptions about a novel subject matter and form an opinion based on that limited exposure and understanding without investigating the 'details'. Seldom does a person reserve judgement and remain emotionally neutral before exploring a controversial field or subject before forming a concrete opinion. I was myself a victim of misconceptions. When I was young I ASSUMED that reincarnating meant that when you died you were immediately reborn again into another body with no conscious awareness in between lifetimes and through no conscious decision of your own. To my young mind it was the equivalent of ceasing to exist. That scared me away from the subject matter as it was too emotionally painful to accept those preconceived generalizations about the subject matter, which illustrates the point being made. Before doing their own exploring, many would conceive of reincarnation more like a trap or perceive it as a punishment, rather than a tool by which to evolve.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


I see,

Best