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Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?

 
Keep2theCode

User ID: 20545539
United States
10/14/2012 04:31 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
[...]

I have a full(To the best of my abailty) reproof of this command and an exhortation to my sisters in Christ. If anyone desires to read it then I will send it over through email if you ask. However, you MUST test EVERYTHING I say so as you were exhorted to do.

May the Lord keep you all from temptation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25551222


This post makes me terrible sad. Perhaps you won't want to "associate" with me who you think is in "rebellion against God"? If not, I wish you all the best.
 Quoting: Life and Love


Seriously. People ignore the pages and pages of debate and think they can just swoop down and make authoritative pronouncements for the unwashed masses. I have to wonder what exactly this does for them, and what exactly they think they can do to stop us from using our Holy Spirit-given gifts.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 21291600
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10/14/2012 09:23 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
i know i am a couple days behind on everything here, but, i have been discussing the "curse" issue with several very studied people and I have come full circle back to my original understanding.

Eve very much so was included in the curse, was also expelled from the garden.

regarding Satan and the temptation in the desert - the only kingdom he ruled over is the realm of behavior of people toward God.

he rules over nothing other than that.
the battlefield is the mind. hint.

and, he uses is same trickery as he did with Eve in the garden.
word trickery.

eliminating the cross was the temptation, not gaining the kingdom realm(s) that satan rules over.

the fall in the garden was the first death.

sorry K2TC...
your logic is sturdy, but it lacks the heart.

have to say, it had me thinking though. but, at the end of the day, God has done a tremendous work, and i will not throw it away.
Keep2theCode

User ID: 20545539
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10/14/2012 09:30 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
sorry K2TC...
your logic is sturdy, but it lacks the heart.

have to say, it had me thinking though. but, at the end of the day, God has done a tremendous work, and i will not throw it away.
 Quoting: Salt


I have no idea what "lacks the heart" means. I also don't know why sturdy logic doesn't count. Glad it gave you a workout at least. I too have no regrets for the effort. I just don't belong in a world where logic doesn't work, I dunno.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 21291600
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10/14/2012 09:43 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
sorry K2TC...
your logic is sturdy, but it lacks the heart.

have to say, it had me thinking though. but, at the end of the day, God has done a tremendous work, and i will not throw it away.
 Quoting: Salt


I have no idea what "lacks the heart" means. I also don't know why sturdy logic doesn't count. Glad it gave you a workout at least. I too have no regrets for the effort. I just don't belong in a world where logic doesn't work, I dunno.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


the line of thinking that i speak of does not lack logic.
i bounced it of doctorate holding scholars who have more than 4 decades experience, and one rabbi. anyway...

it seems that there is something else going on under the surface. it started to reveal itself in your posts regarding child abusers in heaven, etc.

there is a wall there.
none of my business really.
but, there is something creating a stronghold.

i am guilty of being way too analytical and not operating from the heart near enough. i have been chastised for this more than a few times.

i finally get it.
but, massive amounts of pain and heartbreak can do that to a person.
Keep2theCode

User ID: 20545539
United States
10/14/2012 09:52 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
the line of thinking that i speak of does not lack logic.
i bounced it of doctorate holding scholars who have more than 4 decades experience, and one rabbi. anyway...

it seems that there is something else going on under the surface. it started to reveal itself in your posts regarding child abusers in heaven, etc.

there is a wall there.
none of my business really.
but, there is something creating a stronghold.

i am guilty of being way too analytical and not operating from the heart near enough. i have been chastised for this more than a few times.

i finally get it.
but, massive amounts of pain and heartbreak can do that to a person.
 Quoting: Salt


I didn't say your view lacked logic, but only questioned the charge that somehow mine "lacked heart".

I also don't know what "wall" you think I'm behind. Can't I just disagree with you, without being suspected of a psychological or spiritual handicap? Was it really necessary to infer that my difference of opinion must be explained by some fault in me?

I'm extremely disappointed that it has come to this.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 21291600
United States
10/14/2012 09:54 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
the line of thinking that i speak of does not lack logic.
i bounced it of doctorate holding scholars who have more than 4 decades experience, and one rabbi. anyway...

it seems that there is something else going on under the surface. it started to reveal itself in your posts regarding child abusers in heaven, etc.

there is a wall there.
none of my business really.
but, there is something creating a stronghold.

i am guilty of being way too analytical and not operating from the heart near enough. i have been chastised for this more than a few times.

i finally get it.
but, massive amounts of pain and heartbreak can do that to a person.
 Quoting: Salt


I didn't say your view lacked logic, but only questioned the charge that somehow mine "lacked heart".

I also don't know what "wall" you think I'm behind. Can't I just disagree with you, without being suspected of a psychological or spiritual handicap? Was it really necessary to infer that my difference of opinion must be explained by some fault in me?

I'm extremely disappointed that it has come to this.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


i never used the words 'handicap' or 'psychological' or 'fault'

i said pain. who doesn't have pain in their heart?
my gift is discernment. it seems there is some painful experience going on here.

i hope i'm wrong.
your logic skills are intimidating (in a good way). really.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 21291600
United States
10/14/2012 09:55 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
the line of thinking that i speak of does not lack logic.
i bounced it of doctorate holding scholars who have more than 4 decades experience, and one rabbi. anyway...

it seems that there is something else going on under the surface. it started to reveal itself in your posts regarding child abusers in heaven, etc.

there is a wall there.
none of my business really.
but, there is something creating a stronghold.

i am guilty of being way too analytical and not operating from the heart near enough. i have been chastised for this more than a few times.

i finally get it.
but, massive amounts of pain and heartbreak can do that to a person.
 Quoting: Salt


I didn't say your view lacked logic, but only questioned the charge that somehow mine "lacked heart".

I also don't know what "wall" you think I'm behind. Can't I just disagree with you, without being suspected of a psychological or spiritual handicap? Was it really necessary to infer that my difference of opinion must be explained by some fault in me?

I'm extremely disappointed that it has come to this.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


i never used the words 'handicap' or 'psychological' or 'fault'

i said pain. who doesn't have pain in their heart?
my gift is discernment. it seems there is some painful experience going on here.

i hope i'm wrong.
your logic skills are intimidating (in a good way). really.
 Quoting: Salt


actually, this was meant for the hell thread.
Keep2theCode

User ID: 20545539
United States
10/14/2012 09:56 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
the line of thinking that i speak of does not lack logic.
i bounced it of doctorate holding scholars who have more than 4 decades experience, and one rabbi. anyway...

it seems that there is something else going on under the surface. it started to reveal itself in your posts regarding child abusers in heaven, etc.

there is a wall there.
none of my business really.
but, there is something creating a stronghold.

i am guilty of being way too analytical and not operating from the heart near enough. i have been chastised for this more than a few times.

i finally get it.
but, massive amounts of pain and heartbreak can do that to a person.
 Quoting: Salt


I didn't say your view lacked logic, but only questioned the charge that somehow mine "lacked heart".

I also don't know what "wall" you think I'm behind. Can't I just disagree with you, without being suspected of a psychological or spiritual handicap? Was it really necessary to infer that my difference of opinion must be explained by some fault in me?

I'm extremely disappointed that it has come to this.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


i never used the words 'handicap' or 'psychological' or 'fault'

i said pain. who doesn't have pain in their heart?
my gift is discernment. it seems there is some painful experience going on here.

i hope i'm wrong.
your logic skills are intimidating (in a good way). really.
 Quoting: Salt


Thank you, but see the words I made bold in your quote for the basis of my comments about handicaps and faults.

Bowing out now, God bless.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
The kingdom of God is at hand.

User ID: 25551222
United States
10/14/2012 11:41 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
[...]

Is it wise to associate with those who are in rebellion against God?

I have a full(To the best of my abilty) reproof of this command and an exhortation to my sisters in Christ. If anyone desires to read it then I will send it over through email if you ask. However, you MUST test EVERYTHING I say so as you were exhorted to do.

May the Lord keep you all from temptation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25551222


This post makes me terrible sad. Perhaps you won't want to "associate" with me who you think is in "rebellion against God"? If that turns out to be the case, I wish you all the best.
 Quoting: Life and Love



"My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change: For their calamity shall rise suddenly; and who knoweth the ruin of them both?"

And this is the change; that women are allowed to teach men and have authority over them against the Lord's command.

Know that I wish no association with rebellion and disobedience in this regard and this is a serious breach for it reaches far beyond the women who disobey; embolding those who do not know and also those who have heard the command before to be like minded towards God and His heirarchy and order within the church. I have seen it myself and spoke against it and have been rebuked as if the command came from my own lips. I have also seen a women, my sister in Christ, who was confused about this command and feared to speak in church for it is indeed written "it is shameful for a woman to speak in church", but when the other women denied this truth she was emboldened also and spoke and so sinned against God.

I read almost all of the posts before posting. I will not allow anyone to attack me, whom you do not know, so I will no longer post in this topic, but I will ask that all women who read the commands of the Lord obey them and consider that men also must make ourselves contrite and humble before God or are we above Him?! And we also must wash His feat and the feat of our brothers. And we also must take our eyes of Christ so that we may concern ourselves with our wives and love them as our own flesh. So do not believe the lie that God or his sons oppress you for it was God that gave this command and not your brothers. Since God loves His children you may rest assured that the command was for your benefit and not your destruction.

Last Edited by The kingdom of God is at hand. on 10/14/2012 11:43 PM
Something cannot come from nothing.
Dried Up Hag

User ID: 1443836
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10/15/2012 10:15 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
[link to www.hallvworthington.com]

So be ashamed forever, and let all your mouths be stopped forever, that despise the spirit of prophecy in the daughters, and do cast them into prison, and do hinder the women-laborers in the gospel; and said the apostle, Christ in the male and in the female; and if Christ be in the female as well as in the male, is not he the same? And may not the spirit of Christ speak in the female as well as in the male? Is he there to be limited? Who is it that dare limit the holy one of Israel? For the light is the same in the male, and in the female, which comes from Christ, he by whom the world was made, and so Christ is one in all, and not divided; and who is it that dare stop Christ's mouth? who now is come to reign in his sons and daughters, Christ in the male, and Christ in the female? You that will not have him to reign in the female as well as in the male, you are against scripture, and will not have him to reign over you, 2 Cor 13. For that male in whom Christ does reign, rule and speak, he will own Christ in the female, there to reign, to rule and speak, and come to see the apostle's doctrine, a minister of Christ and of God, and not made by the will of man, who said, that Christ was in the male and in the female, Christ all in all, and Christ in you, except you be reprobates. Now you that be reprobates, in whom Christ does not reign nor rule, cannot endure that Christ should be in the female nor in the male, but them you will haul into prison, and yet profess the words, as the Pharisees did, to whom Christ said, I was sick, and in prison, and you visited me not; and I was naked and hungry, and you clothed me not, nor fed me. Now they which might have scripture, and would not have Christ to reign, said, when saw we you in prison, or naked, and hungry, and we clothed you not, or visited you not? Inasmuch as you did it not to the least of these, you did it not unto me, said Christ. So if they who visited him not in prison, who might have the scriptures to talk of, of Christ that was to come, as you have of Christ which is come, and would not have him reign, as you will not now; such were to go into punishment prepared for the devil and his angels. If such punishment came upon them that visited him not, when he was cast into prison, what will come upon you that do cast him into prison?

Just a snippet of something written by one of God's Own almost 400 years ago..........

I'd encourage you all to read it in its total......and if you still argue what the scriptures say........Well - you are pitting yourself against the bible itself....good luck in that...........
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
10/15/2012 11:31 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
[link to www.hallvworthington.com]

So be ashamed forever, and let all your mouths be stopped forever, that despise the spirit of prophecy in the daughters, and do cast them into prison, and do hinder the women-laborers in the gospel; and said the apostle, Christ in the male and in the female; and if Christ be in the female as well as in the male, is not he the same? And may not the spirit of Christ speak in the female as well as in the male? Is he there to be limited? Who is it that dare limit the holy one of Israel? For the light is the same in the male, and in the female, which comes from Christ, he by whom the world was made, and so Christ is one in all, and not divided; and who is it that dare stop Christ's mouth? who now is come to reign in his sons and daughters, Christ in the male, and Christ in the female? You that will not have him to reign in the female as well as in the male, you are against scripture, and will not have him to reign over you, 2 Cor 13. For that male in whom Christ does reign, rule and speak, he will own Christ in the female, there to reign, to rule and speak, and come to see the apostle's doctrine, a minister of Christ and of God, and not made by the will of man, who said, that Christ was in the male and in the female, Christ all in all, and Christ in you, except you be reprobates. Now you that be reprobates, in whom Christ does not reign nor rule, cannot endure that Christ should be in the female nor in the male, but them you will haul into prison, and yet profess the words, as the Pharisees did, to whom Christ said, I was sick, and in prison, and you visited me not; and I was naked and hungry, and you clothed me not, nor fed me. Now they which might have scripture, and would not have Christ to reign, said, when saw we you in prison, or naked, and hungry, and we clothed you not, or visited you not? Inasmuch as you did it not to the least of these, you did it not unto me, said Christ. So if they who visited him not in prison, who might have the scriptures to talk of, of Christ that was to come, as you have of Christ which is come, and would not have him reign, as you will not now; such were to go into punishment prepared for the devil and his angels. If such punishment came upon them that visited him not, when he was cast into prison, what will come upon you that do cast him into prison?

Just a snippet of something written by one of God's Own almost 400 years ago..........

I'd encourage you all to read it in its total......and if you still argue what the scriptures say........Well - you are pitting yourself against the bible itself....good luck in that...........
 Quoting: Dried Up Hag


so very very awesome! thank you!
did you get my emails?
Dried Up Hag

User ID: 1443836
United States
10/16/2012 06:53 AM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
[link to www.hallvworthington.com]

So be ashamed forever, and let all your mouths be stopped forever, that despise the spirit of prophecy in the daughters, and do cast them into prison, and do hinder the women-laborers in the gospel; and said the apostle, Christ in the male and in the female; and if Christ be in the female as well as in the male, is not he the same? And may not the spirit of Christ speak in the female as well as in the male? Is he there to be limited? Who is it that dare limit the holy one of Israel? For the light is the same in the male, and in the female, which comes from Christ, he by whom the world was made, and so Christ is one in all, and not divided; and who is it that dare stop Christ's mouth? who now is come to reign in his sons and daughters, Christ in the male, and Christ in the female? You that will not have him to reign in the female as well as in the male, you are against scripture, and will not have him to reign over you, 2 Cor 13. For that male in whom Christ does reign, rule and speak, he will own Christ in the female, there to reign, to rule and speak, and come to see the apostle's doctrine, a minister of Christ and of God, and not made by the will of man, who said, that Christ was in the male and in the female, Christ all in all, and Christ in you, except you be reprobates. Now you that be reprobates, in whom Christ does not reign nor rule, cannot endure that Christ should be in the female nor in the male, but them you will haul into prison, and yet profess the words, as the Pharisees did, to whom Christ said, I was sick, and in prison, and you visited me not; and I was naked and hungry, and you clothed me not, nor fed me. Now they which might have scripture, and would not have Christ to reign, said, when saw we you in prison, or naked, and hungry, and we clothed you not, or visited you not? Inasmuch as you did it not to the least of these, you did it not unto me, said Christ. So if they who visited him not in prison, who might have the scriptures to talk of, of Christ that was to come, as you have of Christ which is come, and would not have him reign, as you will not now; such were to go into punishment prepared for the devil and his angels. If such punishment came upon them that visited him not, when he was cast into prison, what will come upon you that do cast him into prison?

Just a snippet of something written by one of God's Own almost 400 years ago..........

I'd encourage you all to read it in its total......and if you still argue what the scriptures say........Well - you are pitting yourself against the bible itself....good luck in that...........
 Quoting: Dried Up Hag


so very very awesome! thank you!
did you get my emails?
 Quoting: Salt


You're welcome! hf And yes - I did get your emails. I didn't respond because I knew you had a gazilllion things to catch up on....your threads had grown a few pages each in your absence...:)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25474013
United Kingdom
10/16/2012 11:38 AM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
[...]

Is it wise to associate with those who are in rebellion against God?

I have a full(To the best of my abailty) reproof of this command and an exhortation to my sisters in Christ. If anyone desires to read it then I will send it over through email if you ask. However, you MUST test EVERYTHING I say so as you were exhorted to do.

May the Lord keep you all from temptation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25551222


This post makes me terrible sad. Perhaps you won't want to "associate" with me who you think is in "rebellion against God"? If that turns out to be the case, I wish you all the best.
 Quoting: Life and Love


You are in rebellion. Your words show no compassion or love to your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, whom you are to love. That makes you feel "sad" because your heart does not want to obey so you lash out at others implying that they are in error when she is only passing on a vital message.

WHY did Adam receive a curse?

'To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat of it,’ genesis 3:17

Your post is trying to get Christian women to usurp the spiritual headship as established by Our Creator, and in doing doing so, it leads men to the very same disobedience that Adam committed - they listen to their wives! Who does Ophrah target with her 'spiritual books' and 'self help' books? Women. Who do the yoga teachers target? Women. Who do the New Age teachings target? Women. What was will be again. It's women who bring these new teachings into the home which in turn affect their children and husbands, leading them all into disobedience. The serpent hasn't changed his tactic.
Life and Love

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10/16/2012 12:15 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
You are in rebellion. Your words show no compassion or love to your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, whom you are to love.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25474013


I would like to take a poll off all readers on ^^THIS^^.

I would like the AC to provide specific examples of my posts to bolster his/her conclusion.

Last Edited by Life and Love on 10/16/2012 12:18 PM
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 21291600
United States
10/16/2012 12:19 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
[...]

Is it wise to associate with those who are in rebellion against God?

I have a full(To the best of my abailty) reproof of this command and an exhortation to my sisters in Christ. If anyone desires to read it then I will send it over through email if you ask. However, you MUST test EVERYTHING I say so as you were exhorted to do.

May the Lord keep you all from temptation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25551222


This post makes me terrible sad. Perhaps you won't want to "associate" with me who you think is in "rebellion against God"? If that turns out to be the case, I wish you all the best.
 Quoting: Life and Love


You are in rebellion. Your words show no compassion or love to your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, whom you are to love. That makes you feel "sad" because your heart does not want to obey so you lash out at others implying that they are in error when she is only passing on a vital message.

WHY did Adam receive a curse?

'To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat of it,’ genesis 3:17

Your post is trying to get Christian women to usurp the spiritual headship as established by Our Creator, and in doing doing so, it leads men to the very same disobedience that Adam committed - they listen to their wives! Who does Ophrah target with her 'spiritual books' and 'self help' books? Women. Who do the yoga teachers target? Women. Who do the New Age teachings target? Women. What was will be again. It's women who bring these new teachings into the home which in turn affect their children and husbands, leading them all into disobedience. The serpent hasn't changed his tactic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25474013


this is, by far, the most idiotic, unstudied, uneducated post i have ever seen on the subject.

and it borders on misogyny
nzreva

User ID: 19624091
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10/16/2012 12:32 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
No, they are not to preach. You can't find a woman preacher or priest anywhere in the bible. Show me a bible verse of one and I'll agree with you.

Woman can do a lot like prophesy, gifts of the Holy Spirit, be called disciples, be helpers of the church, but nowhere is there ever one preacher in the New Testament to the church, SORRY!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


Junia was a woman an a Apostle, in Greek it is feminine, later in the teachings it was changed, no one in the first few centries though of her as a man. She was very highly thought of by all.

John Chrysostom was not alone in the ancient church in taking the name to be feminine. The earliest commentator on Romans 16:7, Origen of Alexandria (e. 185-253/54), took the name to be feminine (Junta or Julia, which is a textual variant),(4) as did Jerome (340/50-419/20),(5) Hatto of Vercelli (924-961),(6) Theophylact (c.1050-c.1108),(70 and Peter Abelard (1079-1142).(8) In fact, to the best of my knowledge, no commentator on the text until Aegidius of Rome (1245-1316) took the name to be masculine......
[link to thebodyofjesusthenazoraion.com]

Last Edited by nzreva on 10/16/2012 12:34 PM
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/16/2012 12:43 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
lol.....

"You are a passive aggressive bitch. You start topics that use religious baiting techniques and then ban anyone who disagrees with you. VERY UNCHRISTIAN BEHAVIOR."

i just got this red karma.
now that is the paragon of Christian behavior.

/sarcasm

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