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Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?

 
Life and Love
Live life fully!

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10/08/2012 09:56 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
but, to clarify...

a woman must submit to the authority of the church and should not hold a position of Head Pastor over men in any church.

the honor of submission is for a specific reason.
that reason has nothing to do with lacking any equality, education or ability.
 Quoting: Salt


She can't be a co pastor or any kind of office that has the Pastor title. Period, I clearly see that you support woman pastors by your posts. If I see a TV christian show and there is a woman with a Pastor in front of her name, I turn the show off. She is off!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262



you can't see any such thing.

i do support women teachers and preachers.

it is the audience that is important.

i am currently in school to do such a ministry. i plan to minister. do i plan to pastor a church, no. but, i HAVE been called. but, the ministering/counseling will be to women, children and teens. both male and female children and teens.
 Quoting: Salt


applause applause applause

(And if following Jesus leads you to pastor a church, I suspect you will do so enthusiastically... and humbly)
Those who have more than enough should always be mindful of those who have less than enough.
Celia D.

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10/08/2012 09:57 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
Well, you've already answered your own question.
Life and Love
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10/08/2012 09:57 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
Answer these questions everyone: does one have to be in leadership in order to teach or preach? What shall a woman do when married to an unbeliever who has questions and trusts no one else?
 Quoting: Spitting Into The Wind


that is a good question.

the issue is whether a woman should hold a place of authority in the church and teach/preach.

i think women can teach, preach, prophesy (speak the Word regarding practical past, present and future matters), minister, and pray.

whether or not they should head a church?
 Quoting: Salt


Since Christ is the head of the Church, this may be an issue that concerns certain denominations more than it concerns Him.
 Quoting: Life and Love


yes, i hear what you are saying. i didn't mean head THE church (body of believers), i meant become head-pastor of any given church (sanctuary/temple)
 Quoting: Salt


Yes, I know. I have no problem with it.
Those who have more than enough should always be mindful of those who have less than enough.
SaltModerator (OP)
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10/08/2012 09:57 PM

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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
but, to clarify...

a woman must submit to the authority of the church and should not hold a position of Head Pastor over men in any church.

the honor of submission is for a specific reason.
that reason has nothing to do with lacking any equality, education or ability.
 Quoting: Salt


She can't be a co pastor or any kind of office that has the Pastor title. Period, I clearly see that you support woman pastors by your posts. If I see a TV christian show and there is a woman with a Pastor in front of her name, I turn the show off. She is off!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


what do you think of Joyce Meyer?
She calls her stuff a "ministry"

i see plenty of men in her audience.
"The only religion that God the Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being ensnared by the world." --James 1:27
--

“Read everything, listen to everybody, don’t trust anything unless you can prove it with your own research” --William Cooper
---

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To seek justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
--Michah 6:8
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25184767
Ireland
10/08/2012 09:58 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
but, to clarify...

a woman must submit to the authority of the church and should not hold a position of Head Pastor over men in any church.

the honor of submission is for a specific reason.
that reason has nothing to do with lacking any equality, education or ability.
 Quoting: Salt


She can't be a co pastor or any kind of office that has the Pastor title. Period, I clearly see that you support woman pastors by your posts. If I see a TV christian show and there is a woman with a Pastor in front of her name, I turn the show off. She is off!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


+1

They are rebelling against the word and will of God. They should not minister according to the word of God. That position belongs to the Sons of Aaron alone. I do the very same thing when watching tv and see a woman ministering.

And thou shalt gird them with girdles, Aaron and his sons, and put the bonnets on them: and the priest's office shall be theirs for a perpetual statute: and thou shalt consecrate Aaron and his sons. Exodus 29:9
Life and Love
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10/08/2012 09:58 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
but, to clarify...

a woman must submit to the authority of the church and should not hold a position of Head Pastor over men in any church.

the honor of submission is for a specific reason.
that reason has nothing to do with lacking any equality, education or ability.
 Quoting: Salt


She can't be a co pastor or any kind of office that has the Pastor title. Period, I clearly see that you support woman pastors by your posts. If I see a TV christian show and there is a woman with a Pastor in front of her name, I turn the show off. She is off!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


what do you think of Joyce Meyer?
She calls her stuff a "ministry"

i see plenty of men in her audience.
 Quoting: Salt


Personally, one step above the psychic hotline. But I would say that about 99% of so-called media evangelists.
Those who have more than enough should always be mindful of those who have less than enough.
SaltModerator (OP)
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10/08/2012 09:59 PM

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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
but, to clarify...

a woman must submit to the authority of the church and should not hold a position of Head Pastor over men in any church.

the honor of submission is for a specific reason.
that reason has nothing to do with lacking any equality, education or ability.
 Quoting: Salt


She can't be a co pastor or any kind of office that has the Pastor title. Period, I clearly see that you support woman pastors by your posts. If I see a TV christian show and there is a woman with a Pastor in front of her name, I turn the show off. She is off!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262



you can't see any such thing.

i do support women teachers and preachers.

it is the audience that is important.

i am currently in school to do such a ministry. i plan to minister. do i plan to pastor a church, no. but, i HAVE been called. but, the ministering/counseling will be to women, children and teens. both male and female children and teens.
 Quoting: Salt


applause applause applause

(And if following Jesus leads you to pastor a church, I suspect you will do so enthusiastically... and humbly)
 Quoting: Life and Love


i treasure the honor of submission.
"The only religion that God the Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being ensnared by the world." --James 1:27
--

“Read everything, listen to everybody, don’t trust anything unless you can prove it with your own research” --William Cooper
---

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To seek justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
--Michah 6:8
Life and Love
Live life fully!

User ID: 18613580
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10/08/2012 10:00 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
...


She can't be a co pastor or any kind of office that has the Pastor title. Period, I clearly see that you support woman pastors by your posts. If I see a TV christian show and there is a woman with a Pastor in front of her name, I turn the show off. She is off!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262



you can't see any such thing.

i do support women teachers and preachers.

it is the audience that is important.

i am currently in school to do such a ministry. i plan to minister. do i plan to pastor a church, no. but, i HAVE been called. but, the ministering/counseling will be to women, children and teens. both male and female children and teens.
 Quoting: Salt


applause applause applause

(And if following Jesus leads you to pastor a church, I suspect you will do so enthusiastically... and humbly)
 Quoting: Life and Love


i treasure the honor of submission.
 Quoting: Salt


And I know to Whom you submit.
Those who have more than enough should always be mindful of those who have less than enough.
Mickeyblue
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10/08/2012 10:00 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
Yes, it was about women not "chattering' in the synagogue. Men , also, were admonished not to do this.
SaltModerator (OP)
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
...



you can't see any such thing.

i do support women teachers and preachers.

it is the audience that is important.

i am currently in school to do such a ministry. i plan to minister. do i plan to pastor a church, no. but, i HAVE been called. but, the ministering/counseling will be to women, children and teens. both male and female children and teens.
 Quoting: Salt


applause applause applause

(And if following Jesus leads you to pastor a church, I suspect you will do so enthusiastically... and humbly)
 Quoting: Life and Love


i treasure the honor of submission.
 Quoting: Salt


And I know to Whom you submit.
 Quoting: Life and Love


you bet!
"The only religion that God the Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being ensnared by the world." --James 1:27
--

“Read everything, listen to everybody, don’t trust anything unless you can prove it with your own research” --William Cooper
---

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To seek justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
--Michah 6:8
Anonymous Coward
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Nepal
10/08/2012 10:02 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
Shut up and get back in the kitchen where you belong, you loud-mouthed, man-hating, feminist women.

I am so sick of listening to the crap of feminist women and their mangina lackeys. I hope FEMA arrests all you and incinerates you in their camps.
SaltModerator (OP)
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
ARGUMENT FROM GALATIANS 3:28

Galatians 3:28 - "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

a. Summary of the argument

Since there is no distinction between male and female in Christ, neither should there be any distinction in the pulpit (or any other ministry for that matter). To prohibit women from preaching is to elevate men over women, thereby violating their equality in Christ.

b. Representative quote

"In Galatians 3:26-28 Paul reminds us that we have all been baptized into Christ and there is no longer 'Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female'; for we are 'all one in Christ Jesus.' Paul is speaking of three different dominant-submissive categories, all of which have been nullified by our being baptized into and clothed with Christ.

"The baptized Greek, clothed with the all-sufficiency of Christ, is as much a son of God as is the previously preferred Jew. Similarly, the emancipated slave of early America, once clothed with Christ, met all qualifications for any church office--contrary to the convictions of many church teachers of that era. Any dissection of this passage that offers less to women than other categories would suggest a prejudiced exegesis. The passage goes on to affirm the purpose of Christ's coming: 'to redeem those under the law [Greek, slave, female] that we [all] might receive the full rights of sons' (v. 5)" (Austin H. Stouffer, "The Ordination of Women:YES", Christianity Today, February 20, 1981, p. 13).

c. Responses

1) In Galatians 3:28 Paul illustrates unity in Christ by contrasting it with three prominent points of diversity of his day (i.e., Jew & Greek = nationality/religion; slave & free = social status; male & female = gender).

2) Paul's point is the spiritual equality of believers, not their functional equality.

(The right to preach and teach is a matter of function, not spiritual equality or inequality.)

a) The context of this verse is salvation, not spiritual gifts or spiritual ministries.

"You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor fee man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. and if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" (vv. 26-29).

b) All who are in Christ came to Him through faith and are spiritual equals. However, not everyone functions the same within the Body of Christ because the Holy Spirit distributes gifts and responsibilities according to His sovereign will (cf. 1 Cor. 12:11). Everyone's role is important, but everyone's role isn't the same. That's the principle Paul argues in 1 Corinthians 12.

c) That point is commonly misunderstood. For example, in the representative quote above, Mr. Stouffer rightly says that Christ came to redeem those who are under the law that all who believe might receive the full rights of sonship (Gal. 4:5). But then he confuses freedom from the Law and equal rights as sons (which is the point of the passage) with equal roles in society and the church (which is not the point of the passage).

Mr. Stouffer's comments (that "the baptized Greek, clothed with the all-sufficiency of Christ, is as much a son of God as is the previously preferred Jew. Similarly, the emancipated slave of early America, once clothed with Christ, met all qualifications for any church office--contrary to the convictions of many church teachers of that era. Any dissection of this passage that offers less to women than other categories would suggest a prejudiced exegesis") would be correct and more consistent with Paul's point if they read "The baptized Greek, clothed with the all-sufficiency of Christ, is as much a son of God as is the previously preferred Jew. Similarly, the emancipated slave of early America, once clothed with Christ, is as much a son of God as is his Christian master. An dissection of this passage that offers less to women than other categories would suggest a prejudiced exegesis."

3) A brief discussion of biblical authority and submission is appropriate at this point because God applies it even to spiritual equals.

a)Authority and submission doesn't imply personal superiority or inferiority. It's a functional distinction intended to maintain harmony and order within human institutions such as society and the family. The church is no exception:

Hebrews 13:17 - "Obey your leaders, and submit to them; for they keep watch over your souls, as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you."

1 Peter 5:1-2 - "Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, s your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God."

b) Jesus Himself submitted to the Father without diminishing His nature, character, or personal value in any way (cf. 1 Cor. 11:3; Phil. 2:5-11). Therefore, God does not violate spiritual equality or diminish His high calling for woman when He places her under ma's authority in the church. On the contrary, He shelters her by providing an environment in which she can achieve her highest spiritual potential without undue vulnerability.

Key Principles:

Galatians 3:28 speaks of spiritual equality, not functional quality.
The right to preach and teach is a functional distinction within the Body of Christ.
Authority and submission doesn't imply personal superiority or inferiority.
Christ Himself demonstrated the importance of authority and submission.


[link to www.communitychurchsyv.org]
"The only religion that God the Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being ensnared by the world." --James 1:27
--

“Read everything, listen to everybody, don’t trust anything unless you can prove it with your own research” --William Cooper
---

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To seek justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
--Michah 6:8
Mickeyblue
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10/08/2012 10:03 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
Joyce Meyers is not a good expample. BUT, there are myriads of men on t.v. who, also, are not aa good example.
Goofy for God
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10/08/2012 10:04 PM

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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
Galatians 3:28 - "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
 Quoting: Salt


my favorite

hf
1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment
Life and Love
Live life fully!

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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
...


applause applause applause

(And if following Jesus leads you to pastor a church, I suspect you will do so enthusiastically... and humbly)
 Quoting: Life and Love


i treasure the honor of submission.
 Quoting: Salt


And I know to Whom you submit.
 Quoting: Life and Love


you bet!
 Quoting: Salt


And as a side note: most of my spiritual formation is due to the teaching, discipling, and companioning of deeply spiritual women.
Those who have more than enough should always be mindful of those who have less than enough.
SaltModerator (OP)
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10/08/2012 10:06 PM

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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
...


i treasure the honor of submission.
 Quoting: Salt


And I know to Whom you submit.
 Quoting: Life and Love


you bet!
 Quoting: Salt


And as a side note: most of my spiritual formation is due to the teaching, discipling, and companioning of deeply spiritual women.
 Quoting: Life and Love


wow, nice!

Last Edited by Salt on 10/08/2012 10:07 PM
"The only religion that God the Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being ensnared by the world." --James 1:27
--

“Read everything, listen to everybody, don’t trust anything unless you can prove it with your own research” --William Cooper
---

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To seek justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
--Michah 6:8
Life and Love
Live life fully!

User ID: 18613580
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10/08/2012 10:07 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
...


And I know to Whom you submit.
 Quoting: Life and Love


you bet!
 Quoting: Salt


And as a side note: most of my spiritual formation is due to the teaching, discipling, and companioning of deeply spiritual women.
 Quoting: Life and Love


what a great calling, eh?
 Quoting: Salt


It is!!
Those who have more than enough should always be mindful of those who have less than enough.
Anonymous Coward
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10/08/2012 10:08 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
but, to clarify...

a woman must submit to the authority of the church and should not hold a position of Head Pastor over men in any church.

the honor of submission is for a specific reason.
that reason has nothing to do with lacking any equality, education or ability.
 Quoting: Salt


She can't be a co pastor or any kind of office that has the Pastor title. Period, I clearly see that you support woman pastors by your posts. If I see a TV christian show and there is a woman with a Pastor in front of her name, I turn the show off. She is off!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262



you can't see any such thing.

i do support women teachers and preachers.

it is the audience that is important.

i am currently in school to do such a ministry. i plan to minister. do i plan to pastor a church, no. but, i HAVE been called. but, the ministering/counseling will be to women, children and teens. both male and female children and teens.
 Quoting: Salt


I know that woman are not to be Pastors because I searched for about 20 years to know the anwser to that question. God finally gave me a revelation about it. I was told in that revelation that men are called to the position to lead God's church because they were created first in the image of God and in the glory of God. Woman was created second in the image of God but in the glory of man. That is the revelation I was given by God. It is totally supported throughout the bible.

I have no problem with women teaching other women, or being used by God, or being able to hear from God, or operating in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I just have a problem when a women gives herself the title Pastor before her name. It's not of God. Actually it's even a little silly because the truth is that there is no such thing as a woman pastor or apostle, just like there never was a woman priest in the Old Testament. There couldn't be a woman priest because no such thing existed. Neither does it exist for the New Testament church! You can't be something that doesn't exist, but some women try!

Women can be greatly used of God if they know their place. They can actually achieve more than men. Pro. 31 says "give her of the works of her hands". You don't have to have a title to do things for God.

Some of the people who really "got" it when Jesus was walking on the face of the earth were women. Women were more faithful to Jesus, ministered to Him financially, poured oil on Him for burial, kissed His feet with their tears, one woman stayed faithful to Him even when the men didn't, Mary. But notice that Jesus still needed the men to minister for Him.

When a woman doesn't have a church to pastor she actually has much more time to spend with God, sitting at His feet, learning things from Him. I've found it in my life to be quite a blessing, quite frankly. I've surpassed all the men pastors out there in my knowledge, it's kind of fun!
Spitting Into The Wind

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10/08/2012 10:10 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
The pastor is not a type of head, but an overseer , there to help baby believers. I am sick of this man-made hierarchy; Jesus never wanted it. It is like people cannot believe Jesus directs His body without their help.
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
Galatians 3:28 - "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
 Quoting: Salt


my favorite

hf
 Quoting: Goofy for God


yay! hf
"The only religion that God the Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being ensnared by the world." --James 1:27
--

“Read everything, listen to everybody, don’t trust anything unless you can prove it with your own research” --William Cooper
---

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To seek justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
--Michah 6:8
SaltModerator (OP)
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10/08/2012 10:11 PM

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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
but, to clarify...

a woman must submit to the authority of the church and should not hold a position of Head Pastor over men in any church.

the honor of submission is for a specific reason.
that reason has nothing to do with lacking any equality, education or ability.
 Quoting: Salt


She can't be a co pastor or any kind of office that has the Pastor title. Period, I clearly see that you support woman pastors by your posts. If I see a TV christian show and there is a woman with a Pastor in front of her name, I turn the show off. She is off!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262



you can't see any such thing.

i do support women teachers and preachers.

it is the audience that is important.

i am currently in school to do such a ministry. i plan to minister. do i plan to pastor a church, no. but, i HAVE been called. but, the ministering/counseling will be to women, children and teens. both male and female children and teens.
 Quoting: Salt


I know that woman are not to be Pastors because I searched for about 20 years to know the anwser to that question. God finally gave me a revelation about it. I was told in that revelation that men are called to the position to lead God's church because they were created first in the image of God and in the glory of God. Woman was created second in the image of God but in the glory of man. That is the revelation I was given by God. It is totally supported throughout the bible.

I have no problem with women teaching other women, or being used by God, or being able to hear from God, or operating in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I just have a problem when a women gives herself the title Pastor before her name. It's not of God. Actually it's even a little silly because the truth is that there is no such thing as a woman pastor or apostle, just like there never was a woman priest in the Old Testament. There couldn't be a woman priest because no such thing existed. Neither does it exist for the New Testament church! You can't be something that doesn't exist, but some women try!

Women can be greatly used of God if they know their place. They can actually achieve more than men. Pro. 31 says "give her of the works of her hands". You don't have to have a title to do things for God.

Some of the people who really "got" it when Jesus was walking on the face of the earth were women. Women were more faithful to Jesus, ministered to Him financially, poured oil on Him for burial, kissed His feet with their tears, one woman stayed faithful to Him even when the men didn't, Mary. But notice that Jesus still needed the men to minister for Him.

When a woman doesn't have a church to pastor she actually has much more time to spend with God, sitting at His feet, learning things from Him. I've found it in my life to be quite a blessing, quite frankly. I've surpassed all the men pastors out there in my knowledge, it's kind of fun!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


good points. i think it is more important to submit and stay close to God than to preach/teach.

priorities.
"The only religion that God the Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being ensnared by the world." --James 1:27
--

“Read everything, listen to everybody, don’t trust anything unless you can prove it with your own research” --William Cooper
---

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To seek justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
--Michah 6:8
institutionalized

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10/08/2012 10:12 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
Shut up and get back in the kitchen where you belong, you loud-mouthed, man-hating, feminist women.

I am so sick of listening to the crap of feminist women and their mangina lackeys. I hope FEMA arrests all you and incinerates you in their camps.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25218448


Nipple.......I mean nepal, how could you say such a thing? Why you gotta be all mean?
,./;'[]=-
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
Joyce Meyers is not a good expample. BUT, there are myriads of men on t.v. who, also, are not aa good example.
 Quoting: Mickeyblue 9806228


true that.

i remember when Joyce Meyer was strictly promoted as a women's ministry. her conferences were "women" conferences.

things have changed on the Joyce Meyer front.
"The only religion that God the Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being ensnared by the world." --James 1:27
--

“Read everything, listen to everybody, don’t trust anything unless you can prove it with your own research” --William Cooper
---

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To seek justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
--Michah 6:8
SaltModerator (OP)
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10/08/2012 10:20 PM

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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
ARGUMENTS FROM JOEL 2:28-29 & ACTS 2:17-18

Joel 2:28-29 - "It will come about after this that I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; and your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. And even on the male and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days."

Acts 2:17-18 - "'And it shall be in the last days,' God says, 'That I will pour forth of My Spirit upon all mankind; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even upon My bondslaves, both man and women, I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit and they shall prophesy.'"

a. Summary of the arguments

According to the Apostle Peter, Acts 2:17-18 is the fulfillment of Joel 2:28-29, which says that women as well as men will prophesy (i.e., preach). Women did, in fact, prophesy at Pentecost, and Scripture indicates that they will continue to do so throughout the church age.

b. Representative quotes

1) "God ad promised in the last days to pour out His Spirit upon all flesh, and that the daughters, as well as the sons of mankind, should prophesy. And Peter says most emphatically, respecting the outpouring of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost, 'This is that which is spoken of by the prophet Joel,' etc. (Acts 2:16-18). Words more explicit, and an application of prophecy more direct than this, does not occur within the range of the New Testament" (Booth, Female Ministry, p. 10).

2) "It seems truly astonishing hat Bible students, with the second chapter of the Acts before them, should not see that an imperative decree has gone forth from God, the execution of which women cannot escape; whether they like or not, they 'shall' prophesy throughout the whole course f this dispensation; and they have been doing so, though they and their blessed labours are not much noticed" (Booth, Female Ministry, p. 8).

c. Main points and responses

1) In Acts 2:17-18 Peter quotes from Joel to explain the phenomena that occurred o the Day of Pentecost, and declares that the Day of Pentecost was the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy (cf. Joel 2:28-29).

Response:

b. Some aspects of Joel's extended prophecy were not fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost (e.g., verse 30, which speaks of blood, fire, pillars of smoke, the sun turning dark, and the moon turning to blood). Therefore, we believe that Pentecost was only a partial fulfillment of Joel's prophecy, which will be completed after Israel's future repentance and restoration in connection with the Second Coming of Christ (Zech. 12:10; 13:1).

a. Pentecost was a prefillment of Joel's prophecy rather than its fulfillment. The Holy Spirit was poured out upon some of the "sons and daughters" of Israel at that time, but a time is coming when He will be poured out upon all of Israel.

2) Joel says that women as well as men would prophesy, and women as well as men did prophesy.

Response:

We agree that according to Joel's prophecy women as well as men were to prophesy, and that some women did, in fact, prophesy in the early church (that's clear from 1 Corinthians 11:4-5, which we'll examine later).

3) The phrase "last days" (Acts 2:17) doesn't refer to Pentecost only but to the entire present age. Therefore women as well as men will prophesy throughout the church age.

Responses:

a) We disagree that women will prophesy throughout the church age (see our response to "4)" below.

b) We agree that "last days" isn't limited to Pentecost, and that it could refer to the entire church age. However, we do not think that is the case in this context. We agree with those who teach that Joel's prophecy refers to a time "immediately preceding the return of Christ, when all the particulars (e.g., v. 20 and Rev. 6:12) of the prophecy will come to pass. Peter reminded his hearers that, knowing Joel's prophecy, they should have recognized what they were seeing as a work of the Spirit, not a result of drunkenness" (Dr. Charles Ryrie, Ryrie Study Bible, pp. 1646-47).

c) Pentecost was a foretaste of what is to come--a partial fulfillment of Joel's prophecy, which will be completed "after Israel's future repentance and restoration (Zech. 12:10; 13:1) in connection with the second advent of Christ. . . . The Holy Spirit will then be poured out on all classes in Israel who belong to the believing remnant (Joel 2:32)" (Ryrie Study Bible, p. 1355).

4) To prophesy is to preach.

A "prophet" need not be a foreteller of future events, but is "a person gifted for the exposition of divine truth" (Harper's Greek Lexicon).

[link to www.communitychurchsyv.org]
"The only religion that God the Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being ensnared by the world." --James 1:27
--

“Read everything, listen to everybody, don’t trust anything unless you can prove it with your own research” --William Cooper
---

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To seek justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
--Michah 6:8
Anonymous Coward
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10/08/2012 10:23 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
but, to clarify...

a woman must submit to the authority of the church and should not hold a position of Head Pastor over men in any church.

the honor of submission is for a specific reason.
that reason has nothing to do with lacking any equality, education or ability.
 Quoting: Salt


She can't be a co pastor or any kind of office that has the Pastor title. Period, I clearly see that you support woman pastors by your posts. If I see a TV christian show and there is a woman with a Pastor in front of her name, I turn the show off. She is off!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


what do you think of Joyce Meyer?
She calls her stuff a "ministry"

i see plenty of men in her audience.
 Quoting: Salt


Joyce Meyers calls herself a preacher and calls what she is doing preaching. My opinion of Joyce Meyers is that she could be a wonder teacher to women. But I think she is out place and because of that isn't as effective as what she could be for God, quite frankly.

I believe Joyce has experienced many things in God. But her ministry has problems, one of her staff actually committed suicide not too long ago, I remember, and she and her ministry practically never addressed it at all.

Joyce fails to see the whole picture of truth about many things and therefore is missing the point about many things. The churches are mostly false now and she definitely doesn't say anything about the false churches at all. She's totally missing the boat there!

There is no pastor today preaching about the fallen away churches, none, man or woman (so called women preachers)! You know what that comes from? Being to busy to hear from God!

All these end time events happening and you rarely even hear a pastor stand against something anymore. People are truly missing the boat here!
Anonymous Coward
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10/08/2012 10:23 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
but, to clarify...

a woman must submit to the authority of the church and should not hold a position of Head Pastor over men in any church.

the honor of submission is for a specific reason.
that reason has nothing to do with lacking any equality, education or ability.
 Quoting: Salt


She can't be a co pastor or any kind of office that has the Pastor title. Period, I clearly see that you support woman pastors by your posts. If I see a TV christian show and there is a woman with a Pastor in front of her name, I turn the show off. She is off!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


what do you think of Joyce Meyer?
She calls her stuff a "ministry"

i see plenty of men in her audience.
 Quoting: Salt


Joyce Meyers calls herself a preacher and calls what she is doing preaching. My opinion of Joyce Meyers is that she could be a wonder teacher to women. But I think she is out place and because of that isn't as effective as what she could be for God, quite frankly.

I believe Joyce has experienced many things in God. But her ministry has problems, one of her staff actually committed suicide not too long ago, I remember, and she and her ministry practically never addressed it at all.

Joyce fails to see the whole picture of truth about many things and therefore is missing the point about many things. The churches are mostly false now and she definitely doesn't say anything about the false churches at all. She's totally missing the boat there!

There is no pastor today preaching about the fallen away churches, none, man or woman (so called women preachers)! You know what that comes from? Being to busy to hear from God!

All these end time events happening and you rarely even hear a pastor stand against something anymore. People are truly missing the boat here!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20586262
United States
10/08/2012 10:23 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
but, to clarify...

a woman must submit to the authority of the church and should not hold a position of Head Pastor over men in any church.

the honor of submission is for a specific reason.
that reason has nothing to do with lacking any equality, education or ability.
 Quoting: Salt


She can't be a co pastor or any kind of office that has the Pastor title. Period, I clearly see that you support woman pastors by your posts. If I see a TV christian show and there is a woman with a Pastor in front of her name, I turn the show off. She is off!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


what do you think of Joyce Meyer?
She calls her stuff a "ministry"

i see plenty of men in her audience.
 Quoting: Salt


Joyce Meyers calls herself a preacher and calls what she is doing preaching. My opinion of Joyce Meyers is that she could be a wonder teacher to women. But I think she is out place and because of that isn't as effective as what she could be for God, quite frankly.

I believe Joyce has experienced many things in God. But her ministry has problems, one of her staff actually committed suicide not too long ago, I remember, and she and her ministry practically never addressed it at all.

Joyce fails to see the whole picture of truth about many things and therefore is missing the point about many things. The churches are mostly false now and she definitely doesn't say anything about the false churches at all. She's totally missing the boat there!

There is no pastor today preaching about the fallen away churches, none, man or woman (so called women preachers)! You know what that comes from? Being to busy to hear from God!

All these end time events happening and you rarely even hear a pastor stand against something anymore. People are truly missing the boat here!
SaltModerator (OP)
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10/08/2012 10:26 PM

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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
Joyce Meyer speaks in tongues (glossolalia) and since enormous money has got involved that ministry has serious issues.

just my opinion.
there are some of her teachings that are good.
but i wouldn't have the woman pray over me.
"The only religion that God the Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being ensnared by the world." --James 1:27
--

“Read everything, listen to everybody, don’t trust anything unless you can prove it with your own research” --William Cooper
---

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To seek justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
--Michah 6:8
Anonymous Coward
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10/08/2012 10:28 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
I didn't mean to post my response 3 times, sorry, my computer is not working right tonight.
Anonymous Coward
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10/08/2012 10:30 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
According to the Bible, women are not to speak in church.

1 Corinthians 14:34-36
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

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