Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?

forgiven, we'll start over, striving is so foolish anyway

Well, I've gone back and read the first page and, I'm sorry, there is a lot there that I disagree with. Not much is changed in my mind.

I disagree with you when you say woman can preach.

There's a lot I disagree with on your first page.

And I'm sorry but if this thread continues on in support of women preachers, it's not really the thread for me.

Well, I've gone back and read the first page and, I'm sorry, there is a lot there that I disagree with. Not much is changed in my mind.

I disagree with you when you say woman can preach.

There's a lot I disagree with on your first page.

And I'm sorry but if this thread continues on in support of women preachers, it's not really the thread for me.

I just studied this in geometry with my son. A postulate is a statement accepted without proof.

Well, I've gone back and read the first page and, I'm sorry, there is a lot there that I disagree with. Not much is changed in my mind.

I disagree with you when you say woman can preach.

There's a lot I disagree with on your first page.

And I'm sorry but if this thread continues on in support of women preachers, it's not really the thread for me.

Now that's the way to disagree! Nicely put.

But I would challenge you to consider the meaning of "not so among you" as it applies to what the church really is, what it meant for Jesus to wash his disciple's feet, and what example he gave as told in Phil. 2:5-11 regarding laying privilege aside. In other words, whether or not you believe one half the Body has rule over the other, ask yourself whether that rule is to be clung to or set down. I don't need to see your response, but only ask you to consider these things.

then i used the wrong word.

let's try the word extrapolate.

Sometimes I learn the most from people who disagree with me. I don't agree with everything the OP has said, though I do agree with the vast majority of it. But one thing is very true: I learn a lot from the OP!

And, if you are interested in learning more about the subject, the book "Beyond Sex Roles" by Gilbert Bilezikian is quite helpful.

[link to www.amazon.com]

as you are a good man of God whom i respect very much. please tell me the points that you don't agree with so i can learn from you.

as you are a good man of God whom i respect very much. please tell me the points that you don't agree with so i can learn from you.

You assume I'm a man, I'm a woman

You assume I'm a man, I'm a woman

I know that women are not to be preachers. Now I realize OP that you've kind of changed your talk along the way of not preacher so much, more teacher, counselor, miniter now.

Simply put, that if I'm on a thread where a bunch of people are going to try and hedge around this issue. I'm not on board for that. I'm not for hegding on this issue.

Do I think that when it says women have to always be silent in church, that that means never say a word? No, I don't think that. Did women prophesy in the early church, right in a gathering??? I really have no idea. Believe you me, I wish I could of seen a video of one of their early church gatherings, but we don't have that to see.

I've lived a good long life. Right after I was baptised in the Holy Spirit I had this "burning" to go out and preach. But I did not, and I haven't ever. I'm glad now I didn't. I've rather chosen to seek the truth about how the early church really functioned.

I'm not really certain what you mean? Could you explain more?

That was a very wise move! You may be interested in reading Gene Edwards' book on the early church called "Revolution - The History of the Early Church." One of his main points was the slowness at which things moved. For example, it was eight years after Pentecost before the first non-apostle preached a single word.

[link to www.amazon.com]

What I mean is this:
if Jesus, who is God, could set aside his divine privileges and become human,
if he could take on the role of the lowest servant by washing feet,
and if he told his disciples that the greatest in the kingdom of heaven are those at the bottom,

then the idea that some believers should cling to authority over others is against what Jesus taught and demonstrated. Even if you believe that God gave men authority over women, the Christian thing to do is to lay it down, to not take what you believe to be rightfully yours. A Christian leader must be humble, and that humility must be more than words but also actions. This person, whether claiming authority over the church or over a spouse, must demonstrate the same example as Jesus and serve instead of rule.

Many redefine service as what amounts to "benevolent lording over", or use the oxymoronic term "servant leader" to turn service into rule. But if we have any idea what Jesus taught, it is that the very desire to have power over others, even if we think it is granted by God, is a sign of spiritual immaturity.

So what I would ask is that those who feel divinely entitled to privileges, lay those privileges down and become humble servants. Rather than fight for preeminence, for the first place in line, take the last. As James put it, sit on the floor rather than taking the seat of honor; as Jesus put it, be the waiter rather than the patron at the table.

I have no desire to boss people, or to think God would favor me due to my flesh, or to control how people use their spiritual gifts. If a person is truly gifted to lead, whether in the church or the home, they will never need to enforce it or cling to it or fight for it; people will know.

each person has their own individual calling. each of us represents a part of the body. important part.

it is important to wait to be sure one knows thru and thru what their gifts are in the Spirit, and where God wants them to be.

i am 20 years into my walk. and i think i finally have some grasp on the direction that God wants me to go. i still don't have the whole picture. i have no problem waiting.

taking a leadership role is a huge responsibility.
i have avoided it for two decades.
i go into it with fear and trembling.

no doubt about that.

For me it's not about authority or preeminence, perhaps the "bull in a china closet" you see in me is because I've run into so many women who say they are right, they will never back down from saying woman can preach ever. They make me that way.

you bet they are!
don't let anyone tell you that women are to be silent.
God used many powerful women to teach, preach, judge, prophesy, etc.

God called and used women preachers in the Old Testament.

a. DEBORAH - Judges 4:4-5. Deborah was a Judge for both civil and criminal cases. The children of Israel came to her for judgment. She was the chief ruler of Israel for 40 years, giving orders to the Generals and all the army. She did the work of an evangelist, prophetess, Judge, and a preacher. God gave her authority over the mighty (Judges 5:13).

b. MIRIAM - Exodus 15:20; Numbers 12:1; Micah 6:4. She was a Prophetess and a Song Leader in Israel.

c. HULDAH - 2 Kings 22:14. Five men went to Sister Huldah and communed with her. She spoke to a congregation of men concerning the book of the Law. A female preached to a man's congregation, and her message was taken to the nation and produced a revival.

d. MAHER-SHALAL-HASH-BAZ'S MOTHER - Isaiah 8:3. She was a prophetess.

8. God called and used women preachers in the New Testament.

a. The first message of the Resurrection of Christ was spoken by women to a group of men.

b. Anna - Luke 2:36-38. She must have prophesied in church, because she did not depart from the temple.

c. Phillip had 4 daughters who prophesied. Acts 21:9.

d. Priscilla assisted Paul in his revival meeting and even taught Apollos in the way of the Lord more perfectly.

e. Phebe - Romans 16:1-2. Paul commended Phoebe to the Church at Rome and requested that they assist her in her business. She was one of Paul's assistants in the work of the Lord and delivered the Book of Romans to the people from the hand of Paul.

9. There is no sound reason why a woman or man should not preach the Gospel. There is a desperate need in the church for more workers. Laborers are few, and God will use any and all who will go for Him. Some say God will not use a woman to preach, because "The woman was deceived," but remember Romans 5:12: "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world." It seems to indicate that Adam was just as guilty as Eve in the fall of man. If anyone should be kept from preaching because of sin, it would be Adam. But God does not forbid anyone from preaching, because of Adam's or Eve's sin.

10. 1 Cor. 14: 34-35 does not say anything about women preachers. If Paul intended this verse as a general rule to bar all women from speaking in church, then they cannot teach Sunday School, testify, pray, prophesy, sing, or even get saved, and this would contradict the rest of the Bible (Acts 2:4; Acts 2:16-18).

Paul was rather dealing with a particular problem in the church. Women were not educated as were the men in that day; therefore the women would talk back and forth to their husbands in church and ask questions concerning the sermon. Paul said, "If they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home; for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." If they want to talk things over let them wait until they get home. This rule is still good for the church today, where people are talking and causing confusion in the church service. They should not speak in church. (Not in the back of the church either before or after services.)

If a woman cannot speak in church, then she cannot speak in prayer meeting, young people's service, etc., for who can deny that Sunday School and Prayer meeting, and Youth work are parts of church? Christ's Church is not a building, but rather it is found where two or three are gathered together in His name, whether at a street meeting, in a tent, a home, church, classroom or anywhere else.

11. 1 Timothy 2:12 is not a blanket rule for all women of all churches. If it were, then the women could not speak at all, for the same verse that tells them not to teach also tells them to be silent.

If all women had to keep silent in church, then that would be promoting disobedience to God, for they could not prophesy, pray, testify, sing, exhort, do personal work, or even get saved.

Whenever an interpretation to a verse contradicts the rest of the teaching of the Bible, we know this interpretation is incorrect, for the Holy Spirit will never contradict His own Word.

50% rule observed
[link to circleofchristianwomen.com]

each person has their own individual calling. each of us represents a part of the body. important part.

it is important to wait to be sure one knows thru and thru what their gifts are in the Spirit, and where God wants them to be.

i am 20 years into my walk. and i think i finally have some grasp on the direction that God wants me to go. i still don't have the whole picture. i have no problem waiting.

taking a leadership role is a huge responsibility.
i have avoided it for two decades.
i go into it with fear and trembling.

no doubt about that.

Everything is a responsibility with God. If a person is called, for intsance like to be a watchman, and they don't do it, blood will be on their hands. If you're not called and you do something incorrect, blood can be on your hand too. That's why it's so important to be 100% sure that you are doing it right.

Our works will either burn or stand. You want yours to stand don't you!

I guess I've just seen so many professional people lead people right back into the false churches. Back when I was in my church, there were a few who were struggling, none of us knew what to do. Then someone would go to a therapist, everytime that profesional person would tell the person, go back to your family, go back to the church. They would lead them back into the churches. And I thought to myself that I would fear God if I was someone like that. They will give an account to God someday for the advice they give.

Nobody "makes you that way". I've been known to smash a fair amount of china myself, but I don't blame others for it.

But that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about taking a position or "role" (a word not in the Bible!) of authority over another person or group, and clinging to it because of believing one has a divine right. It doesn't matter how or in what manner the clinging is done. You could be the most gentle soul but still "lord over" by saying "God made me the boss of you because I am a male".

With God submission is very powerful. It's not a weak thing. I cast out a demon during my huband's deliverance when I did an act of submission to him.

Males are not to domineer either.

With God we are to humble ourselves and in due time He will exalt us.

God has a way of doing things. He has his order. And there is nothing wrong with order.