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God Believers - Questions About The Absurd

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3978737
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10/09/2012 02:58 PM
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God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
Read a few kidnap/torture stories here:

TRUE TALES of Liberty Denied

[link to piperpost.net]

Now my questions are:

A - if there is a god and he is all powerful how could he let these people be enslaved and tortured (some until their death)? What kind of fucking god would do that?

b - if there is a god the fate of these people is just ABSURD - I mean your life taken from you so that you can be a tortured for the enjoyment of some sociopath? Really. What meaning does your life have if that's the case - years of torture followed by death. Simply ABSURD. And if it's just some "test" then why do cock suckers and murders not face the same test (in fact some of these sociopaths simply get away with it)?

c - The concept of fairness is missing in this world. If a young child can be enslaved and tortured for the sole pleasure of a sociopath while criminals, thieves and murderers run rampant, then there is clearly no sense of fairness on the planet. What's the god rationale for this possibility.

d - Can Karma really exist if scum walk freely in happiness while torturing other people? If so how?

I mean these to be serious inquiries in to the existence of god in light of the absurd.

For more reading on ABSURDISM:

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25255597
10/09/2012 03:26 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
You are aware this issue is about moral and philosophical implications, right? Assume God just refuses to move a finger and let history of man unravels in the same way it's been doing even prior to the time Assyrians hang up their enemies' skin as wall decoration... assume man wanted freedom of action completely independent of any divine interference, what would such god do? Allow men to check up if they could do better as certain outsider suggested all creatures of the universe could do? Time ticking is required to prove enough evidence afford or against complete "free will" , and yet here we are, after thousands of years of the worst evidence and at the very edge lf destroyiog the planet and people STILL believe they can manage the things without any other guide..., still thinking with additional time we shall overcome whatever difficulties.

Of course, we would have to think in a god running things with immaculate stainless development, without any mistake or error until someone from wherever dimension would shout aloud in front of all assembly of entities in the known world: " enough of that tyranny! We want freedom" and so it begins again and again and again in one spot of the universe and in other. Nah, the whole thing required a lot of time for every creature in every single corner of the universe that total freedom ends up in absolute mess. even more than the O.J. Simpson trial, the judgment lf the god himself/herself/itself bs the freedom asked by the created ones, the User as in Tron....
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:28 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
You are aware this issue is about moral and philosophical implications, right? Assume God just refuses to move a finger and let history of man unravels in the same way it's been doing even prior to the time Assyrians hang up their enemies' skin as wall decoration... assume man wanted freedom of action completely independent of any divine interference, what would such god do? Allow men to check up if they could do better as certain outsider suggested all creatures of the universe could do? Time ticking is required to prove enough evidence afford or against complete "free will" , and yet here we are, after thousands of years of the worst evidence and at the very edge lf destroyiog the planet and people STILL believe they can manage the things without any other guide..., still thinking with additional time we shall overcome whatever difficulties.

Of course, we would have to think in a god running things with immaculate stainless development, without any mistake or error until someone from wherever dimension would shout aloud in front of all assembly of entities in the known world: " enough of that tyranny! We want freedom" and so it begins again and again and again in one spot of the universe and in other. Nah, the whole thing required a lot of time for every creature in every single corner of the universe that total freedom ends up in absolute mess. even more than the O.J. Simpson trial, the judgment lf the god himself/herself/itself bs the freedom asked by the created ones, the User as in Tron....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25255597


A butterfly lifespan is nothing compared with a human. Imagine its suffering when your baby boy tortures it with a needle.... time of mankind torture is some millenia.... as seen from everlasting aliens is less than butterfly lifespan...
Billy_Sastard

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10/09/2012 03:32 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
There are as many different interpretations of 'god' as there are religions and cults. In some of them the arguments in the OP are meaningless.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
It is, to me, sad how fast people forget the FOUNDATIONS of our fine country! This country was built by an armed population capable of fending for themselves, and will be lost by couches full of potato-sheeple riding their 52" HD-LEDTV's into the orwellian sunset. :(
:abomb::abomb::abomb:
BRING ON THE DOOM!!!
Nobody...
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10/09/2012 03:56 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
Evil was our choice, not his...who are you to question God?
Yes, our world is condemned (read Gen.3), and it is evil. If God were to abolish evil you would never seek him (he cursed the ground, Genesis 3:17). There is a purpose, and a plan at work, so they we may be reconciled with him. His son shed his blood for the remission of our sin (Matthew 26), so there is a glorious way out (John 3:16).
Accept Christ, and you can avoid man's most ominous evil, and that is death. He defeated death, so that we may have everlasting life.

God is not to blame, as he gave us freewill, thus tying his own hands. So, dodn't shake your fist at God. He will renew all things...

Psalm 14:1 Only a fool say's there is no God...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/09/2012 05:04 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
There are as many different interpretations of 'god' as there are religions and cults. In some of them the arguments in the OP are meaningless.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Billy_Sastard


I am assuming the omnipotent all powerful one of the "believers".
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/09/2012 05:14 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
Evil was our choice, not his...who are you to question God?
Yes, our world is condemned (read Gen.3), and it is evil. If God were to abolish evil you would never seek him (he cursed the ground, Genesis 3:17). There is a purpose, and a plan at work, so they we may be reconciled with him. His son shed his blood for the remission of our sin (Matthew 26), so there is a glorious way out (John 3:16).
Accept Christ, and you can avoid man's most ominous evil, and that is death. He defeated death, so that we may have everlasting life.

God is not to blame, as he gave us freewill, thus tying his own hands. So, dodn't shake your fist at God. He will renew all things...

Psalm 14:1 Only a fool say's there is no God...
 Quoting: Nobody... 967366


Let's break this down:

Fuck god - he created me via this reality. I didn't ask to come here. I'm not happy with the reality of this creation - as in the example OF ENSLAVED PEOPLE BEING TORTURED many people are fucked without so much as a RATIONAL EXPLANATION (OF WHICH YOU OFFER NONE). Torture is just one example of the absurdity of this existence - how about the little boy who just got struck through his heart with a lightening bolt? Absurd. And if there is an omnipotent god already it/he/she/whatever knows how I feel so it's no biggie that I posted it here.

ACTUALLY EVIL IS NOT A CHOICE - IT'S A CREATION OF THIS REALITY. Again - not my choice to come here and experience it (on either side). On the one hand we have programming (dominance and submissive programming) which leads to things like torture and enslavement and people seeking power. On the other hand we have random experiences which put us in harms way - chance and chaos (like the woman sitting in the park when a branch falls on her head killing her or worse paralyzing her to live out her existence sipping through a straw, or the woman who happens to run in to the serial killer). Again, not only ABSURD but meaningless and without a rational purpose. None of which can be explained by "free will".

Ah the "avoid death" angle - so for the man given everything who uses that everything to help other humans he escapes death while the person tortured who curses god is sent to hell. Again - zero fairness in this equation.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/09/2012 05:47 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
Just too tough to defend god I guess.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/09/2012 05:58 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
You are aware this issue is about moral and philosophical implications, right? Assume God just refuses to move a finger and let history of man unravels in the same way it's been doing even prior to the time Assyrians hang up their enemies' skin as wall decoration... assume man wanted freedom of action completely independent of any divine interference, what would such god do? Allow men to check up if they could do better as certain outsider suggested all creatures of the universe could do? Time ticking is required to prove enough evidence afford or against complete "free will" , and yet here we are, after thousands of years of the worst evidence and at the very edge lf destroyiog the planet and people STILL believe they can manage the things without any other guide..., still thinking with additional time we shall overcome whatever difficulties.

Of course, we would have to think in a god running things with immaculate stainless development, without any mistake or error until someone from wherever dimension would shout aloud in front of all assembly of entities in the known world: " enough of that tyranny! We want freedom" and so it begins again and again and again in one spot of the universe and in other. Nah, the whole thing required a lot of time for every creature in every single corner of the universe that total freedom ends up in absolute mess. even more than the O.J. Simpson trial, the judgment lf the god himself/herself/itself bs the freedom asked by the created ones, the User as in Tron....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25255597


non-interference does not explain the dynamic of an unfair world with absurd possibilities.
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 07:05 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
bump
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 07:10 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
Read a few kidnap/torture stories here:

TRUE TALES of Liberty Denied

[link to piperpost.net]

Now my questions are:

A - if there is a god and he is all powerful how could he let these people be enslaved and tortured (some until their death)? What kind of fucking god would do that?

b - if there is a god the fate of these people is just ABSURD - I mean your life taken from you so that you can be a tortured for the enjoyment of some sociopath? Really. What meaning does your life have if that's the case - years of torture followed by death. Simply ABSURD. And if it's just some "test" then why do cock suckers and murders not face the same test (in fact some of these sociopaths simply get away with it)?

c - The concept of fairness is missing in this world. If a young child can be enslaved and tortured for the sole pleasure of a sociopath while criminals, thieves and murderers run rampant, then there is clearly no sense of fairness on the planet. What's the god rationale for this possibility.

d - Can Karma really exist if scum walk freely in happiness while torturing other people? If so how?

I mean these to be serious inquiries in to the existence of god in light of the absurd.

For more reading on ABSURDISM:

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737
Your God did those things, asshole.
Jam
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10/09/2012 07:17 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
1. God watches over his people. I did not read all the stories you link but there are many on the planet who are not Christian. God does not answer their prayers. That's just how it works. They/you need to accept his free gift of eternal salvation before his Holy Spirit and guardian Angels will watch over them/you.

2. As long as we all have free will there will be evil in the world. This is not God but man. It comes with freedom. This is what this earth is about - God's plan to weed out the bad 'apples'.

3. Satan is as real as Jesus who walked the earth and works through earthly empires to move in an anti-Christian direction. Christians are to be in the world but not of the world.
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 07:26 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
Read a few kidnap/torture stories here:

TRUE TALES of Liberty Denied

[link to piperpost.net]

Now my questions are:

A - if there is a god and he is all powerful how could he let these people be enslaved and tortured (some until their death)? What kind of fucking god would do that?

b - if there is a god the fate of these people is just ABSURD - I mean your life taken from you so that you can be a tortured for the enjoyment of some sociopath? Really. What meaning does your life have if that's the case - years of torture followed by death. Simply ABSURD. And if it's just some "test" then why do cock suckers and murders not face the same test (in fact some of these sociopaths simply get away with it)?

c - The concept of fairness is missing in this world. If a young child can be enslaved and tortured for the sole pleasure of a sociopath while criminals, thieves and murderers run rampant, then there is clearly no sense of fairness on the planet. What's the god rationale for this possibility.

d - Can Karma really exist if scum walk freely in happiness while torturing other people? If so how?

I mean these to be serious inquiries in to the existence of god in light of the absurd.

For more reading on ABSURDISM:

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737




A-God is Our Lady,Christ and the Holy Ghost. If you don't call on God by these names then you are basically calling the devil and the devil is sick and permits all kinds of evils.
B-One of Our Lady's promises of the Rosary is protection from misfortune so if you pray the 150 original rosary you will be spared from these situations. That is why it is sooo important to teach your teacher to properly say the Rosary.
C-The reason why there is no fairness is that when you are calling the devil God you get the devil's rules and they are not fair. Our Lady,Christ and the Holy Ghost are fair all the time. The reason why criminals go free is because the law and judiciary system is made up of jewish freemasons who do things for their own benefit. What they want is for you to be sooo desperate and destitute that you will believe what ever they feed you. So if they let out all murderes and criminals then you feel scared and terrorized and so they tell you what God is and you believe them.

D-That is part of the problem. Karma does not exist. And these atrocities will go on until you throw Karma out the door and say that God is Our Lady,Christ and the Holy Ghost.

You will know that God exists because that is who you come face to face with when you die. So when you see him say to him you are God my maker. That is the fate of every human being ever.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/09/2012 09:27 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
1. God watches over his people. I did not read all the stories you link but there are many on the planet who are not Christian. God does not answer their prayers. That's just how it works. They/you need to accept his free gift of eternal salvation before his Holy Spirit and guardian Angels will watch over them/you.

2. As long as we all have free will there will be evil in the world. This is not God but man. It comes with freedom. This is what this earth is about - God's plan to weed out the bad 'apples'.

3. Satan is as real as Jesus who walked the earth and works through earthly empires to move in an anti-Christian direction. Christians are to be in the world but not of the world.
 Quoting: Jam 25255505


Sounds great except:

1. Small children kidnapped in to slavery - did they not "accept" god's salvation? Wow god sucks. Anyway - he excludes all Christians. What about humans who have lived only deep in the jungle who never heard of Jesus Christ - fucked by circumstance I guess? This is also generally untrue of many victim - for example in that link the story of Colleen Stan - she has said all she had was her faith in god and her prayers - which were not answered for seven torturous years.

2. I have specific examples of events that have nothing to do with man and the evil he does which seem defy all rational thought and logical purpose - all based upon chance and circumstance and chaos which simply destroy lives. I'll do a repeat - women trips on banana and is paralyzed and lives to sip through a straw.

3. Ah Satan did it - when all else fails call out your scapegoat.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/09/2012 09:30 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
Read a few kidnap/torture stories here:

TRUE TALES of Liberty Denied

[link to piperpost.net]

Now my questions are:

A - if there is a god and he is all powerful how could he let these people be enslaved and tortured (some until their death)? What kind of fucking god would do that?

b - if there is a god the fate of these people is just ABSURD - I mean your life taken from you so that you can be a tortured for the enjoyment of some sociopath? Really. What meaning does your life have if that's the case - years of torture followed by death. Simply ABSURD. And if it's just some "test" then why do cock suckers and murders not face the same test (in fact some of these sociopaths simply get away with it)?

c - The concept of fairness is missing in this world. If a young child can be enslaved and tortured for the sole pleasure of a sociopath while criminals, thieves and murderers run rampant, then there is clearly no sense of fairness on the planet. What's the god rationale for this possibility.

d - Can Karma really exist if scum walk freely in happiness while torturing other people? If so how?

I mean these to be serious inquiries in to the existence of god in light of the absurd.

For more reading on ABSURDISM:

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737




A-God is Our Lady,Christ and the Holy Ghost. If you don't call on God by these names then you are basically calling the devil and the devil is sick and permits all kinds of evils.
B-One of Our Lady's promises of the Rosary is protection from misfortune so if you pray the 150 original rosary you will be spared from these situations. That is why it is sooo important to teach your teacher to properly say the Rosary.
C-The reason why there is no fairness is that when you are calling the devil God you get the devil's rules and they are not fair. Our Lady,Christ and the Holy Ghost are fair all the time. The reason why criminals go free is because the law and judiciary system is made up of jewish freemasons who do things for their own benefit. What they want is for you to be sooo desperate and destitute that you will believe what ever they feed you. So if they let out all murderes and criminals then you feel scared and terrorized and so they tell you what God is and you believe them.

D-That is part of the problem. Karma does not exist. And these atrocities will go on until you throw Karma out the door and say that God is Our Lady,Christ and the Holy Ghost.

You will know that God exists because that is who you come face to face with when you die. So when you see him say to him you are God my maker. That is the fate of every human being ever.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22787868


So nothing bad happens to Christians who believe all this and say the Rosary? Really? What about persecution of Christians and christian saints - how did that happen?
Jam
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10/09/2012 10:11 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
1. God watches over his people. I did not read all the stories you link but there are many on the planet who are not Christian. God does not answer their prayers. That's just how it works. They/you need to accept his free gift of eternal salvation before his Holy Spirit and guardian Angels will watch over them/you.

2. As long as we all have free will there will be evil in the world. This is not God but man. It comes with freedom. This is what this earth is about - God's plan to weed out the bad 'apples'.

3. Satan is as real as Jesus who walked the earth and works through earthly empires to move in an anti-Christian direction. Christians are to be in the world but not of the world.
 Quoting: Jam 25255505


Sounds great except:

1. Small children kidnapped in to slavery - did they not "accept" god's salvation? Wow god sucks. Anyway - he excludes all Christians. What about humans who have lived only deep in the jungle who never heard of Jesus Christ - fucked by circumstance I guess? This is also generally untrue of many victim - for example in that link the story of Colleen Stan - she has said all she had was her faith in god and her prayers - which were not answered for seven torturous years.

2. I have specific examples of events that have nothing to do with man and the evil he does which seem defy all rational thought and logical purpose - all based upon chance and circumstance and chaos which simply destroy lives. I'll do a repeat - women trips on banana and is paralyzed and lives to sip through a straw.

3. Ah Satan did it - when all else fails call out your scapegoat.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737


God did not create robots. You are free to slip on a banana or get drowned in a lake; it all fits God's plan, we are told. Death is not the end so death or misery in this life are short and temporary compared to eternity.

Still, Jesus walked 2000 years ago fulfilling many OT prophetic passages; Israel & Jerusalem, Babylon & Egypt - all confirms the Biblical account of history that says there is more beyond this life. Circumstances of this life can be chaotic.

And that's not all. God sets up kingdoms, whether Muslim in the middle east, who destroyed the entire Eastern Orthodox, or the atheist French Revolution - all found in prophetic passages before they even existed. It is written God's people with "the seal of God" were not hurt by the Muslims, and it was so. The non-orthodox Christians were left alone. But, even if they died, as many did during those dark ages; death is not the end. You with the carnal mind find death an awful thing when death is not the end. The apostles were all killed for their teaching. They were mighty men and changed the world. They will live for eternity. It is far worse to die a non-believer. They will see the second death which there is no return. The loss of eternal life is the worst, not slipping on a banana.
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 10:25 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
God. (upper case g) is perfect.

The bible clearly states why we are not perfect and why such evil is present in our world.

What is an ant to contemplate a skyscraper?
What is a man to contemplate the mind of God?

Quiet your angry heart, see things as an innocent child and you will see God.

Blessings.
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 10:36 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
It all boils down to this: if you have to argue your god into existence, you've already lost the battle. Most of the classic "arguments" for a god contain fallacies: Pascal's Wager, First Cause, Kalam, Watchmaker, etc. Each of these arguments relies on an unprovable assertion, a logic failure, or an argument from ignorance.

The only way to prove a god is to have it show up. Once it becomes an entity that can be tested, we can test it to determine if it is a god.
Jam
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10/09/2012 10:39 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
The only way to prove a god is to have it show up. Once it becomes an entity that can be tested, we can test it to determine if it is a god.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1082682


Done.
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 10:42 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
It all boils down to this: if you have to argue your god into existence, you've already lost the battle. Most of the classic "arguments" for a god contain fallacies: Pascal's Wager, First Cause, Kalam, Watchmaker, etc. Each of these arguments relies on an unprovable assertion, a logic failure, or an argument from ignorance.

The only way to prove a god is to have it show up. Once it becomes an entity that can be tested, we can test it to determine if it is a god.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1082682


Luckily, Christians don't have to convince others that He exists. God is such an intimate person, that He will make Himself known to others even when they refuse to believe. That is what happened to me. God make Himself known to me. It is really silly to argue about the existence of a person, when that person can easily make themselves known! But for some, they want absolute proof when it is staring them in the face!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/09/2012 11:17 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
God. (upper case g) is perfect.

The bible clearly states why we are not perfect and why such evil is present in our world.

What is an ant to contemplate a skyscraper?
What is a man to contemplate the mind of God?

Quiet your angry heart, see things as an innocent child and you will see God.

Blessings.
 Quoting: sdavis642


Yeah I'm not angry - I haven't even stated a position - these are questions. None of which you answered. Your answer is - we can't comprehend or question god. But unfortunately we can comprehend this reality - and if some event lacks a rational purpose or an explanation (even in light of the belief in god) than we have every right to question it while we are here.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/09/2012 11:20 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
1. God watches over his people. I did not read all the stories you link but there are many on the planet who are not Christian. God does not answer their prayers. That's just how it works. They/you need to accept his free gift of eternal salvation before his Holy Spirit and guardian Angels will watch over them/you.

2. As long as we all have free will there will be evil in the world. This is not God but man. It comes with freedom. This is what this earth is about - God's plan to weed out the bad 'apples'.

3. Satan is as real as Jesus who walked the earth and works through earthly empires to move in an anti-Christian direction. Christians are to be in the world but not of the world.
 Quoting: Jam 25255505


Sounds great except:

1. Small children kidnapped in to slavery - did they not "accept" god's salvation? Wow god sucks. Anyway - he excludes all Christians. What about humans who have lived only deep in the jungle who never heard of Jesus Christ - fucked by circumstance I guess? This is also generally untrue of many victim - for example in that link the story of Colleen Stan - she has said all she had was her faith in god and her prayers - which were not answered for seven torturous years.

2. I have specific examples of events that have nothing to do with man and the evil he does which seem defy all rational thought and logical purpose - all based upon chance and circumstance and chaos which simply destroy lives. I'll do a repeat - women trips on banana and is paralyzed and lives to sip through a straw.

3. Ah Satan did it - when all else fails call out your scapegoat.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737


God did not create robots. You are free to slip on a banana or get drowned in a lake; it all fits God's plan, we are told. Death is not the end so death or misery in this life are short and temporary compared to eternity.

Still, Jesus walked 2000 years ago fulfilling many OT prophetic passages; Israel & Jerusalem, Babylon & Egypt - all confirms the Biblical account of history that says there is more beyond this life. Circumstances of this life can be chaotic.

And that's not all. God sets up kingdoms, whether Muslim in the middle east, who destroyed the entire Eastern Orthodox, or the atheist French Revolution - all found in prophetic passages before they even existed. It is written God's people with "the seal of God" were not hurt by the Muslims, and it was so. The non-orthodox Christians were left alone. But, even if they died, as many did during those dark ages; death is not the end. You with the carnal mind find death an awful thing when death is not the end. The apostles were all killed for their teaching. They were mighty men and changed the world. They will live for eternity. It is far worse to die a non-believer. They will see the second death which there is no return. The loss of eternal life is the worst, not slipping on a banana.
 Quoting: Jam 25255505


We're discussing an individual (at least I am) who is enslaved and tortured their entire life and then killed - this is in god's plan? Why? Why does that individual get to live a life of utter misery while murderers live lives of luxury?

I will buy the eternity is nothing compared to suffering but there's still no rational explanation for the ABSURD.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/09/2012 11:23 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
It all boils down to this: if you have to argue your god into existence, you've already lost the battle. Most of the classic "arguments" for a god contain fallacies: Pascal's Wager, First Cause, Kalam, Watchmaker, etc. Each of these arguments relies on an unprovable assertion, a logic failure, or an argument from ignorance.

The only way to prove a god is to have it show up. Once it becomes an entity that can be tested, we can test it to determine if it is a god.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1082682


Luckily, Christians don't have to convince others that He exists. God is such an intimate person, that He will make Himself known to others even when they refuse to believe. That is what happened to me. God make Himself known to me. It is really silly to argue about the existence of a person, when that person can easily make themselves known! But for some, they want absolute proof when it is staring them in the face!
 Quoting: sdavis642


No one is asking for "absolute proof" - I am asking why god would create a possibility that's meaningless yet absurd to the individual who experiences it? The all mighty all powerful has placed (not everyone, not even the majority) but a small portion of people in lose/lose scenarios which don't seem to have any real purpose. If you tell me he's testing their faith - I could answer: that's some fucking test for that individual while others skate. Seems unfair and meaningless.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25277944
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10/09/2012 11:31 PM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
God. (upper case g) is perfect.

The bible clearly states why we are not perfect and why such evil is present in our world.

What is an ant to contemplate a skyscraper?
What is a man to contemplate the mind of God?

Quiet your angry heart, see things as an innocent child and you will see God.

Blessings.
 Quoting: sdavis642


Yeah I'm not angry - I haven't even stated a position - these are questions. None of which you answered. Your answer is - we can't comprehend or question god. But unfortunately we can comprehend this reality - and if some event lacks a rational purpose or an explanation (even in light of the belief in god) than we have every right to question it while we are here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737


all that you are saying is that you have a better idea of how to run things than God. and your anger at God is why you are questioning His ways. If you spent time with Him, you would understand more and question less.
William_the_Bloody

User ID: 20712268
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10/10/2012 12:06 AM

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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
Read a few kidnap/torture stories here:

TRUE TALES of Liberty Denied

[link to piperpost.net]

Now my questions are:

A - if there is a god and he is all powerful how could he let these people be enslaved and tortured (some until their death)? What kind of fucking god would do that?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737


The Universe functions under laws set in motion by the first cause, and the laws are, essentially, Matter versus Spirit. This also takes on attributes like Good versus Evil, where Spirit is good and Matter is evil.

We live on a Material world in a unique situation, we are both spirit and matter. God is Spirit in purity, unity, totality and exists outside of time. Therefore, we find ourselves inadvertantly under the law of the opposite, the Material God of this world who is de facto Evil.

The rub is that God does not "create" this evil, it simply comes into being by virtue of polarity, and then we *chose* to follow the Evil into Matter, therefore we are under the direct rule of the Sub-Diety we chose for ourselves through temptation and deceit, which we were forewarned about and knew better from in the first place.

What kind of fucking God would do that? God didn't do it, the God of this world (who is known as "Satan" did it.)

b - if there is a god the fate of these people is just ABSURD - I mean your life taken from you so that you can be a tortured for the enjoyment of some sociopath? Really. What meaning does your life have if that's the case - years of torture followed by death. Simply ABSURD. And if it's just some "test" then why do cock suckers and murders not face the same test (in fact some of these sociopaths simply get away with it)?

 Quoting: Sincere Seeker of God


From a spiritual perspective, those who have short lives here on Earth are blessed, they get to go home much faster than the rest of us that are stuck here.

There is the law of Karma, which suggests that perhaps these souls did similar things to people in previous lives that they now must suffer themselves, and there is also the doctrine of pre-determination, where spirits choose to be victims for the benefit of the killer/rapist/Criminal so that they may learn a spiritual lesson that may make very little sense to the material world and it's perspective.

So, Karma and/or Free Will is the answer.

c - The concept of fairness is missing in this world. If a young child can be enslaved and tortured for the sole pleasure of a sociopath while criminals, thieves and murderers run rampant, then there is clearly no sense of fairness on the planet. What's the god rationale for this possibility.
 Quoting: OP

As I've said, the God of this world that lured us here is Evil, therefore you will not find fairness here in this age. This will change.

d - Can Karma really exist if scum walk freely in happiness while torturing other people? If so how?
 Quoting: OP


Karma operates on a spectrum that may not satisfy your (or my) need for immediacy. Consider this too: Material reward/gain is actually *detrimental* to spirituality and Karma. Therefore, the scum (as you call them) who are walking freely are really accumulating more problems and work for themselves than those who are caught and pay the price of consequences for their actions.
I mean these to be serious inquiries in to the existence of god in light of the absurd.

For more reading on ABSURDISM:

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Sincere Seeker of Truth and not just some blow-hard atheist trying to sound smug


From the perspective of the subjects of Satan living in Satan's world without realizing Satan is actually in charge, yes, these things seem very absurd.

When you understand theology properly, it's not absurd in the least and we can know why we are here, where we stand, and what needs to be done to get the holy hell out of here and get back home.

Would you like to get back to where you once belonged? It sounds like you do, because you hate "scum." Ergo, you hate this world and it's God, Satan.

Take the life-raft, brother!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/10/2012 12:07 AM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
God. (upper case g) is perfect.

The bible clearly states why we are not perfect and why such evil is present in our world.

What is an ant to contemplate a skyscraper?
What is a man to contemplate the mind of God?

Quiet your angry heart, see things as an innocent child and you will see God.

Blessings.
 Quoting: sdavis642


Yeah I'm not angry - I haven't even stated a position - these are questions. None of which you answered. Your answer is - we can't comprehend or question god. But unfortunately we can comprehend this reality - and if some event lacks a rational purpose or an explanation (even in light of the belief in god) than we have every right to question it while we are here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737


all that you are saying is that you have a better idea of how to run things than God. and your anger at God is why you are questioning His ways. If you spent time with Him, you would understand more and question less.
 Quoting: sdavis642


"The Bible insists that God is sovereign, so sovereign that nothing that takes place in the universe can escape the outermost boundary of his control; yet the Bible insists God is good, unreservedly good, the very standard of goodness. We are driven to conclude that God does not stand behind good and evil in exactly the same way. In other words, he stands behind good in such a way that the good can ultimately be credited to him; he stands behind evil in such a way that what is evil is inevitably credited to secondary agents and all their malignant effects" D. A. Carson
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2012 12:12 AM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
God. (upper case g) is perfect.

The bible clearly states why we are not perfect and why such evil is present in our world.

What is an ant to contemplate a skyscraper?
What is a man to contemplate the mind of God?

Quiet your angry heart, see things as an innocent child and you will see God.

Blessings.
 Quoting: sdavis642


He might even come down and speak face to face with you.

[link to 3.bp.blogspot.com]
ClassicHen

User ID: 25284111
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10/10/2012 12:16 AM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
God makes all things new. A lifetime of torture will pale in comparison to what He has in store for us.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25277944
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10/10/2012 12:19 AM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
God. (upper case g) is perfect.

The bible clearly states why we are not perfect and why such evil is present in our world.

What is an ant to contemplate a skyscraper?
What is a man to contemplate the mind of God?

Quiet your angry heart, see things as an innocent child and you will see God.

Blessings.
 Quoting: sdavis642


Yeah I'm not angry - I haven't even stated a position - these are questions. None of which you answered. Your answer is - we can't comprehend or question god. But unfortunately we can comprehend this reality - and if some event lacks a rational purpose or an explanation (even in light of the belief in god) than we have every right to question it while we are here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737


all that you are saying is that you have a better idea of how to run things than God. and your anger at God is why you are questioning His ways. If you spent time with Him, you would understand more and question less.
 Quoting: sdavis642


"The Bible insists that God is sovereign, so sovereign that nothing that takes place in the universe can escape the outermost boundary of his control; yet the Bible insists God is good, unreservedly good, the very standard of goodness. We are driven to conclude that God does not stand behind good and evil in exactly the same way. In other words, he stands behind good in such a way that the good can ultimately be credited to him; he stands behind evil in such a way that what is evil is inevitably credited to secondary agents and all their malignant effects" D. A. Carson
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737


God does not "stand" by evil. Evil/outer darkness/lake of fire/death are the absence of His presence. Yes, He has everything to do with both good and evil, yet the absence of Him results in all things evil.

And the "good" the above quote refers to doesnt describe anyone in this world, because by God's standard, none in this world are good. Which paves the way for the Gospel, the necessity of Christ's perfect goodness.
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2012 12:32 AM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
They were tired of life and subconsciously wanted to die. Someone came along and gave it to them. Why would God stop that?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 3978737
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10/10/2012 12:35 AM
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Re: God Believers - Questions About The Absurd
The Universe functions under laws set in motion by the first cause, and the laws are, essentially, Matter versus Spirit. This also takes on attributes like Good versus Evil, where Spirit is good and Matter is evil.

We live on a Material world in a unique situation, we are both spirit and matter. God is Spirit in purity, unity, totality and exists outside of time. Therefore, we find ourselves inadvertantly under the law of the opposite, the Material God of this world who is de facto Evil.

The rub is that God does not "create" this evil, it simply comes into being by virtue of polarity, and then we *chose* to follow the Evil into Matter, therefore we are under the direct rule of the Sub-Diety we chose for ourselves through temptation and deceit, which we were forewarned about and knew better from in the first place.

What kind of fucking God would do that? God didn't do it, the God of this world (who is known as "Satan" did it.)



This is good stuff! So we're here an subject to the material aspects of our existence! Still not an answer. Is your your answer as to why people suffer horrible existences here CHANCE? RANDOMNESS? A spin of the wheel? Lets see...

From a spiritual perspective, those who have short lives here on Earth are blessed, they get to go home much faster than the rest of us that are stuck here.

There is the law of Karma, which suggests that perhaps these souls did similar things to people in previous lives that they now must suffer themselves, and there is also the doctrine of pre-determination, where spirits choose to be victims for the benefit of the killer/rapist/Criminal so that they may learn a spiritual lesson that may make very little sense to the material world and it's perspective.

So, Karma and/or Free Will is the answer.


You almost had me in the first part but we're now talking about previous lives and transferred Karma. Even if I bought this explanation there remain questions: (1)Why are evil people evading their PRESENT LIFE bad KARMA? I mean - wouldn't it make more sense to get them in their evil life instead of letting them enjoy themselves and then punishing them horrifically in a later life? (2) Your explanation evades random destruction - like the boy who dies from an accidental blow to his head. Or are you saying god in some instances will let EVIL "FREE WILL" PEOPLE inflict retribution but in some cases he'll just drop a tree on them himself?


Karma operates on a spectrum that may not satisfy your (or my) need for immediacy. Consider this too: Material reward/gain is actually *detrimental* to spirituality and Karma. Therefore, the scum (as you call them) who are walking freely are really accumulating more problems and work for themselves than those who are caught and pay the price of consequences for their actions.

Ah so comfort and material satisfaction (like a good meal) is actually bad for our souls? I mean I had a nice steak just an hour ago and I suddenly feel guilty.

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