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The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either

 
Keep2theCode

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10/13/2012 04:50 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Oh, I know very well what is going on... As far as credentials, no, nothing that can be verified by anything mainstream... That should be a clue to you...

You think reincarnation is laughable and imaginary???

Then you are simply, not in tune to the nature of existence in the galaxy, and the galaxy's purpose...Thanks in part, to your god's destruction of your original 12 strand dna structure...

Think hard on this - It is not possible to gain a fullness of understanding from one lifetime... Even if that lifetime was 10,000 years...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3711900


A clue? Yeah, I've got one: You think you're beyond me, enlightened, on a higher plane. You can't prove it though, and you don't care, but you still look down your nose at anyone who doesn't buy what you're selling.

So I'm "not in tune" just because I disagree with you? That's really arrogant of you. So also is it arrogant to think you will ever gain "a fullness of understanding". And as for my God, He is the creator but yours is the destroyer, the one who's been trying to monkey with our DNA since the beginning, the one who made the hybrids that ruled earth with viciousness and pure evil, whom God wiped off the planet for their deeds.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Life and Love
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10/13/2012 04:53 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
You think reincarnation is laughable and imaginary???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3711900


Well, if reincarnation is as the Buddha taught, then the probability of a human life next reincarnating as a human life is miniscule. I think he described it as a grain of sand compared to the whole beach.
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2012 05:00 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
You think reincarnation is laughable and imaginary???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3711900


Well, if reincarnation is as the Buddha taught, then the probability of a human life next reincarnating as a human life is miniscule. I think he described it as a grain of sand compared to the whole beach.
 Quoting: Life and Love


Most budhists are minion incarnations - their animating life force is the planetary spirit... These incarnations will not reincarnate, it is not their purpose, and they only exist due to overbreeding...
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2012 05:14 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Oh, I know very well what is going on... As far as credentials, no, nothing that can be verified by anything mainstream... That should be a clue to you...

You think reincarnation is laughable and imaginary???

Then you are simply, not in tune to the nature of existence in the galaxy, and the galaxy's purpose...Thanks in part, to your god's destruction of your original 12 strand dna structure...

Think hard on this - It is not possible to gain a fullness of understanding from one lifetime... Even if that lifetime was 10,000 years...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3711900


A clue? Yeah, I've got one: You think you're beyond me, enlightened, on a higher plane. You can't prove it though, and you don't care, but you still look down your nose at anyone who doesn't buy what you're selling.

So I'm "not in tune" just because I disagree with you? That's really arrogant of you. So also is it arrogant to think you will ever gain "a fullness of understanding". And as for my God, He is the creator but yours is the destroyer, the one who's been trying to monkey with our DNA since the beginning, the one who made the hybrids that ruled earth with viciousness and pure evil, whom God wiped off the planet for their deeds.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode



Oh, I know very well what is going on... As far as credentials, no, nothing that can be verified by anything mainstream... That should be a clue to you...

You think reincarnation is laughable and imaginary???

Then you are simply, not in tune to the nature of existence in the galaxy, and the galaxy's purpose...Thanks in part, to your god's destruction of your original 12 strand dna structure...

Think hard on this - It is not possible to gain a fullness of understanding from one lifetime... Even if that lifetime was 10,000 years...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3711900


A clue? Yeah, I've got one: You think you're beyond me, enlightened, on a higher plane. You can't prove it though, and you don't care, but you still look down your nose at anyone who doesn't buy what you're selling.

So I'm "not in tune" just because I disagree with you? That's really arrogant of you. So also is it arrogant to think you will ever gain "a fullness of understanding". And as for my God, He is the creator but yours is the destroyer, the one who's been trying to monkey with our DNA since the beginning, the one who made the hybrids that ruled earth with viciousness and pure evil, whom God wiped off the planet for their deeds.
[/quote

Your god, aka, the orion empire are genetic manipulators, not creators...

In reality, they are the destroyers... They, upon discovering this planet, undertook genetic manipulation in order to produce a slave compliant race...

They destroyed a genetically suitable uni-gender (the origin of your adam and eve story) being who was in harmony with the planet and it's spiritual nature...

The mess, we have today is primarily due to them... Yet, they try and sell you another story based on a satan, devil, demon, fallen angels causing the havoc...BS, it is them and their astral allies...
Keep2theCode

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10/13/2012 05:20 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Your god, aka, the orion empire are genetic manipulators, not creators...

In reality, they are the destroyers... They, upon discovering this planet, undertook genetic manipulation in order to produce a slave compliant race...

They destroyed a genetically suitable uni-gender (the origin of your adam and eve story) being who was in harmony with the planet and it's spiritual nature...

The mess, we have today is primarily due to them... Yet, they try and sell you another story based on a satan, devil, demon, fallen angels causing the havoc...BS, it is them and their astral allies...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3711900


My God is "I AM", the self-existing one, the creator of everything that exists.

The mess we have is due to human beings rebelling against God and choosing instead to be under the domain of Satan.

I don't accept your story at all.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2012 05:35 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Your god, aka, the orion empire are genetic manipulators, not creators...

In reality, they are the destroyers... They, upon discovering this planet, undertook genetic manipulation in order to produce a slave compliant race...

They destroyed a genetically suitable uni-gender (the origin of your adam and eve story) being who was in harmony with the planet and it's spiritual nature...

The mess, we have today is primarily due to them... Yet, they try and sell you another story based on a satan, devil, demon, fallen angels causing the havoc...BS, it is them and their astral allies...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3711900


My God is "I AM", the self-existing one, the creator of everything that exists.

The mess we have is due to human beings rebelling against God and choosing instead to be under the domain of Satan.

I don't accept your story at all.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Complete nonsence!!!

However, it does solidify in my mind - how potent, the combination of genetic manipulation and a society paradigm is...

As far as you not accepting my story, does not change the fact of what is, and is very accurate...
Keep2theCode

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10/13/2012 05:39 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Complete nonsence!!!

However, it does solidify in my mind - how potent, the combination of genetic manipulation and a society paradigm is...

As far as you not accepting my story, does not change the fact of what is, and is very accurate...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3711900


Your opinion. Your very arrogant, condescending opinion, and one that you cannot prove is more true or better than mine.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 10/13/2012 05:39 PM
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2012 05:46 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Complete nonsence!!!

However, it does solidify in my mind - how potent, the combination of genetic manipulation and a society paradigm is...

As far as you not accepting my story, does not change the fact of what is, and is very accurate...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3711900


Your opinion. Your very arrogant, condescending opinion, and one that you cannot prove is more true or better than mine.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Not arrogant!!!

But, sometimes a little shock to your system is needed...
Keep2theCode

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10/13/2012 05:52 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Complete nonsence!!!

However, it does solidify in my mind - how potent, the combination of genetic manipulation and a society paradigm is...

As far as you not accepting my story, does not change the fact of what is, and is very accurate...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3711900


Your opinion. Your very arrogant, condescending opinion, and one that you cannot prove is more true or better than mine.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Not arrogant!!!

But, sometimes a little shock to your system is needed...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3711900


Lol... "a little shock to your system" is somehow not arrogant... but claiming it isn't does not change the truth, sorry.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2012 07:03 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Salt, I think you would be interested in studying Easter Orthodoxy.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2012 07:04 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Salt, I think you would be interested in studying Easter Orthodoxy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25507435

Eastern
X^24

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10/13/2012 07:17 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
The word "gospel" literally translated means good news, and that it is, even for those that don't follow it's precepts.

The vast majority of people on this Earth will inherit a degree of glory even the least of which would cause many men and women to commit suicide to immediately attain it. Only those spirits that followed Satan in the pre-existence and those that deny the holy ghost after having received a sure knowledge of it shall not inherit a degree of glory per this passage recently posted on this very thread.

“And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come” (Matt. 12:31–32).

Why the distinction?
Thread: GOD IS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! AMEN!!! (Page 6)
 Quoting: X^24


Where is the scripture that teaches or shows anyone getting a second chance in the next life?
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


A fragment of a plain and precious truth:

"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" (1 Corinthians, 15:29) - [link to www.14lds.com]
 Quoting: X^24


the idea here is to accept Jesus in THIS life.
that is the teaching.
but, for those who refuse, well... it won't be pretty for those. but its a far stretch from burning in hell forever like the fundies want to teach.
 Quoting: Salt


What of the billions of people that never had any chance to hear the gospel?
 Quoting: X^24


...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1479302


Is every thread supposed to be about "making a gospel" or "providing an authoritative path to true happiness"?

Or is this one just to discuss whether people get a second chance to be saved in the next life, using pertinent scripture passages to support each side?

If you'd like to start a thread about the topics of your preference, go right ahead.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Ok then what of my earlier query of the billions who have died with no chance to hear the true gospel?

Is baptism required for everyone, or not?
 Quoting: X^24


Pretty sure I mentioned this somewhere, but God holds people responsible for what they could grasp or be expected to know. At the end of the day, we just have to trust God to be as merciful as possible yet as just as necessary. God will be fair yet holy. As Jesus said, "To whom much is given, from the same will much be required". So to those who didn't hear, he will require little; they will be responsible for what they could possibly know. But to those who hear, more is required.

Some may take that as saying it's better not to spread the gospel then, since hearing it means being responsible for it. Yet Jesus Himself commanded us to spread the gospel everywhere. And since salvation in this age means reconciliation, having a close relationship, we must do everything we can to tell this good news to as many people as possible, so they don't miss out on something priceless.

So in light of this topic of second chances, I still say no; this life is all we have in which to choose. But if anyone didn't hear the gospel, I trust God to be merciful to the pure-hearted yet harsh to those who violated what they knew to be right. The key difference between 2nd chances and mercy is that those who leave this earth in knowing rebellion against God will not be given a chance to change their minds in the next life.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


What you wrote is mostly in agreement with my understanding of scripture, although you didn't address the need for baptism.

According to

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved." (emphasis added)

So baptism is a required ordinance, even for those that have died and the specific exclusion of the unpardonable sin indicates that other sins may be forgiven (otherwise, why the distinction) in the world to come.

Baptism is a required ordinance signifying forgiveness of past transgressions and admittance into the kingdom of God.
The deception continues to crumble.
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.
Christ was mischaracterized to the point of Crucifixion.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2012 07:23 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
John the Baptist baptized people with water.....but Christ baptizes believers with the Holy Spirit. (Mark 1: 8)
ANHEDONIC

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10/13/2012 07:24 PM

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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Why do Christians think they have a monoploy on God?

Can't other religious paths get you to heaven?

get your head out of your ass and read other sacred texts
 Quoting: jacksprat


hf

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
X^24

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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Ok then what of my earlier query of the billions who have died with no chance to hear the true gospel?

Is baptism required for everyone, or not?
 Quoting: X^24


Rephrase the question to an earlier time when God's chosen people was Israel. Salvation was only found by joining them. They were chosen to carry God's message to the world. The same is true today about Christians. But Christians too need to be obedient or they are "cut-off" as Israel were. (Romans 11:18-23)
 Quoting: Jam 25445959


Found the below quoted article interesting, especially the poorly formed last line that I think tries to exclude dead people from this binding ordinance with no scriptural basis?

Be born of water - By "water," here, is evidently signified "baptism." Thus the word is used in Ephesians 5:26; Titus 3:5. Baptism was practiced by the Jews in receiving a Gentile as a proselyte. It was practiced by John among the Jews; and Jesus here says that it is an ordinance of his religion, and the sign and seal of the renewing influences of his Spirit. So he said Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." It is clear from these places, and from the example of the apostles Act 2:38, Acts 2:41; Acts 8:12-13, Acts 8:36, Acts 8:38; Acts 9:18; Acts 10:47-48; Acts 16:15, Acts 16:33; Acts 18:8; Acts 22:16; Galatians 3:27, that they considered this ordinance as binding on all who professed to love the Lord Jesus. And though it cannot be said that none who are not baptized can be saved, - [link to bible.cc]
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Anonymous Coward
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Titus 3:5


"not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration OF THE HOLY SPIRIT."



There is water baptism.

There is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.



Christ: "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.(John 3: 5)


Jesus baptizes people with the Holy Spirit (Mark Chp 1)


A characteristic of a true child of God is that they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8: 5-17)
Jam
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
John the Baptist baptized people with water.....but Christ baptizes believers with the Holy Spirit. (Mark 1: 8)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24909996


Mk 1:8, is not telling us baptism is not necessary. Only that the Holy Ghost is at work as well.

"Buried with him in baptism, wherein also you are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." Colossians 2:12

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. ... knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Romans 6:4-6

Yes people run out and find your baptism, I did!
jacksprat

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10/13/2012 08:12 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Why do Christians think they have a monoploy on God?

Can't other religious paths get you to heaven?

get your head out of your ass and read other sacred texts
 Quoting: jacksprat


hf
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


bless you
jacksprat
jacksprat

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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
reincarnation is fact

the brainwashed story of Christianity is fiction
jacksprat
Keep2theCode

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10/13/2012 08:40 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
A fragment of a plain and precious truth:

"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" (1 Corinthians, 15:29) - [link to www.14lds.com]
 Quoting: X^24

Out of context. The "dead" Paul is referring to there is Jesus. Paul's whole argument there is that IF Jesus were not risen, then nobody is. Yet we are baptized in His name, so what good is that if He's still dead? You have to take the whole argument and not a piece out of context.

What you wrote is mostly in agreement with my understanding of scripture, although you didn't address the need for baptism.

According to

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved." (emphasis added)

So baptism is a required ordinance, even for those that have died and the specific exclusion of the unpardonable sin indicates that other sins may be forgiven (otherwise, why the distinction) in the world to come.

Baptism is a required ordinance signifying forgiveness of past transgressions and admittance into the kingdom of God.
 Quoting: X^24

Again, context. I think someone already addressed this, but you apparently need to hear it from me.

Paul and John the Baptist (of all people) contrasted water baptism with fire (Spirit) baptism. Paul even said that he was happy he hadn't baptized many people, a strange statement for something you claim is necessary. And not once in any gospel explanation is water baptism mentioned. "By grace you are saved, through faith" means exactly what it says.

And there is no point in referring to LDS links; I will ignore them all.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Life and Love
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
A fragment of a plain and precious truth:

"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" (1 Corinthians, 15:29) - [link to www.14lds.com]
 Quoting: X^24

Out of context. The "dead" Paul is referring to there is Jesus. Paul's whole argument there is that IF Jesus were not risen, then nobody is. Yet we are baptized in His name, so what good is that if He's still dead? You have to take the whole argument and not a piece out of context.

What you wrote is mostly in agreement with my understanding of scripture, although you didn't address the need for baptism.

According to

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved." (emphasis added)

So baptism is a required ordinance, even for those that have died and the specific exclusion of the unpardonable sin indicates that other sins may be forgiven (otherwise, why the distinction) in the world to come.

Baptism is a required ordinance signifying forgiveness of past transgressions and admittance into the kingdom of God.
 Quoting: X^24

Again, context. I think someone already addressed this, but you apparently need to hear it from me.

Paul and John the Baptist (of all people) contrasted water baptism with fire (Spirit) baptism. Paul even said that he was happy he hadn't baptized many people, a strange statement for something you claim is necessary. And not once in any gospel explanation is water baptism mentioned. "By grace you are saved, through faith" means exactly what it says.

And there is no point in referring to LDS links; I will ignore them all.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


For that matter, do we have a record of Jesus himself baptizing anyone?
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Keep2theCode

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10/13/2012 08:55 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
For that matter, do we have a record of Jesus himself baptizing anyone?
 Quoting: Life and Love


Nope. In fact it says it was actually his disciples: John 4:1-2 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Life and Love
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
For that matter, do we have a record of Jesus himself baptizing anyone?
 Quoting: Life and Love


Nope. In fact it says it was actually his disciples: John 4:1-2 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Thanks, that's the way I remembered it. hf
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Keep2theCode

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10/13/2012 09:06 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
For that matter, do we have a record of Jesus himself baptizing anyone?
 Quoting: Life and Love


Nope. In fact it says it was actually his disciples: John 4:1-2 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Thanks, that's the way I remembered it. hf
 Quoting: Life and Love


And then there's 1 Peter 3:21

"and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Life and Love
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
For that matter, do we have a record of Jesus himself baptizing anyone?
 Quoting: Life and Love


Nope. In fact it says it was actually his disciples: John 4:1-2 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Thanks, that's the way I remembered it. hf
 Quoting: Life and Love


And then there's 1 Peter 3:21

"and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Do you think it is too far fetched to use baptism (baptiso) in the Great Commission (Matt 28.19) as immersing them in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? That is, immersing them relationally as well as or in addition to the baptism rite? The idea of immersing them into a relationship with Father seems to be more consistent with the progression of discipling, baptizing (immersing), and teaching.

I do.
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
X^24

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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Again, context. I think someone already addressed this, but you apparently need to hear it from me.

Paul and John the Baptist (of all people) contrasted water baptism with fire (Spirit) baptism. Paul even said that he was happy he hadn't baptized many people, a strange statement for something you claim is necessary. And not once in any gospel explanation is water baptism mentioned. "By grace you are saved, through faith" means exactly what it says.

 Quoting: Keep2theCode

"He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved." (emphasis added)
 Quoting: Mark 16:16

Are you contradicting Mark 16:16?

Please provide biblical references for your assertions.
The deception continues to crumble.
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.
Christ was mischaracterized to the point of Crucifixion.
Keep2theCode

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10/13/2012 09:34 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Do you think it is too far fetched to use baptism (baptiso) in the Great Commission (Matt 28.19) as immersing them in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? That is, immersing them relationally as well as or in addition to the baptism rite? The idea of immersing them into a relationship with Father seems to be more consistent with the progression of discipling, baptizing (immersing), and teaching.

I do.
 Quoting: Life and Love


I've pondered that at times, and don't think it's far-fetched at all. There's really a lot more going on in the GC than meets the eye, IMHO:

-- Spoken to the disciples, before the coming of the Holy Spirit
-- Given only after Jesus had "all authority"
-- It says "make disciples" rather than "evangelize"
-- Each Person is named separately; not "in the names of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit" but "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"
-- It includes "teaching them to obey"

Whoever Jesus meant to include in this (only "leaders"? everybody?), they were all to do everything: make disciples, baptize, teach. But why only because Jesus had all authority? It seems to me that this is a delegation of what he himself had been doing, and water immersion was not something he did. The authority is in the sender, not the sent, such that there is no need to have specially-trained or anointed people doing these things. Which all means that there is no clergy class with the exclusive power to do these immersions, or to teach, or to go everywhere making disciples.

The emphasis here on the Trinity is good to remember when reading Acts, where the Gentiles were first given the Holy Spirit. They didn't know who the HS was because they had only been immersed in the name of Jesus. This all could add up to a requirement to be immersed in all three Persons. Yet in other instances we see that the HS came upon them before any water immersion was done, such that those who claim this must be done in order to receive the HS are in error.

Very interesting passage.


For general notice... the Great Commisssion
Mat. 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Life and Love
Live life fully!

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10/13/2012 09:38 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Do you think it is too far fetched to use baptism (baptiso) in the Great Commission (Matt 28.19) as immersing them in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? That is, immersing them relationally as well as or in addition to the baptism rite? The idea of immersing them into a relationship with Father seems to be more consistent with the progression of discipling, baptizing (immersing), and teaching.

I do.
 Quoting: Life and Love


I've pondered that at times, and don't think it's far-fetched at all. There's really a lot more going on in the GC than meets the eye, IMHO:

-- Spoken to the disciples, before the coming of the Holy Spirit
-- Given only after Jesus had "all authority"
-- It says "make disciples" rather than "evangelize"
-- Each Person is named separately; not "in the names of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit" but "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"
-- It includes "teaching them to obey"

Whoever Jesus meant to include in this (only "leaders"? everybody?), they were all to do everything: make disciples, baptize, teach. But why only because Jesus had all authority? It seems to me that this is a delegation of what he himself had been doing, and water immersion was not something he did. The authority is in the sender, not the sent, such that there is no need to have specially-trained or anointed people doing these things. Which all means that there is no clergy class with the exclusive power to do these immersions, or to teach, or to go everywhere making disciples.

The emphasis here on the Trinity is good to remember when reading Acts, where the Gentiles were first given the Holy Spirit. They didn't know who the HS was because they had only been immersed in the name of Jesus. This all could add up to a requirement to be immersed in all three Persons. Yet in other instances we see that the HS came upon them before any water immersion was done, such that those who claim this must be done in order to receive the HS are in error.

Very interesting passage.


For general notice... the Great Commisssion
Mat. 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I'll add one more point to your very good list: that is, Jesus announced that the old authority of Temple, Torah, and National Identity now became resident in Him and Him alone.
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Keep2theCode

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10/13/2012 09:40 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
Again, context. I think someone already addressed this, but you apparently need to hear it from me.

Paul and John the Baptist (of all people) contrasted water baptism with fire (Spirit) baptism. Paul even said that he was happy he hadn't baptized many people, a strange statement for something you claim is necessary. And not once in any gospel explanation is water baptism mentioned. "By grace you are saved, through faith" means exactly what it says.

 Quoting: Keep2theCode

"He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved." (emphasis added)
 Quoting: Mark 16:16

Are you contradicting Mark 16:16?

Please provide biblical references for your assertions.
 Quoting: X^24


No contradiction at all. Show me the word "water" in that verse. And explain all the other instances where any mention of water baptism is conspicuous by its absence.

Though I would have presumed someone like you who purports to know the scriptures would hardly need the references, here you are:
Matthew 3:11
Luke 3:16
John 1:33
1 Corinthians 1:14
1 Corinthians 1:17
1 Corinthians 15:1-8
Eph. 2:8-9

ADDED: The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20 in Mark 16.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 10/13/2012 09:42 PM
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode

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10/13/2012 09:44 PM
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Re: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either
I'll add one more point to your very good list: that is, Jesus announced that the old authority of Temple, Torah, and National Identity now became resident in Him and Him alone.
 Quoting: Life and Love


Yep! We also remember that the veil in the Temple was ripped in two, signifying that there was no longer any "holiest place" sealed off from ordinary people, and thus no more of the old priesthood and its inseparable Law.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)