The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either

None will refuse forever.

Philippians 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

God intends to reconcile 'all'

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

You are right about the separation of the good from the evil. When we read about the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven in Revelation, we see that it says that there are those that are 'without' the city.

Revelation 22:
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

This shows that the wicked are still there, but they are now shown 'without' the city. In other words they can not come into the city until they have been cleansed & repented of their wickedness.

Hell is being away from all of the good and living in a place with all of the evil ones. That is why there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. No one will want to stay out there very long.

This is one reason why there will be kings and priests on the earth then. To help instruct and teach these evil ones in righteousness.


Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


Consider this

Mark 7:25For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:

26The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.

27But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

28And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.
29And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.

This woman understood that the ones without would also benefit from the kingdom teachings. By His answer Jesus showed she was right.

All will be made to bow the knee, but not all will do so willingly. No one can be forced to love God; it is impossible. And without love, there is no relationship, and no citizenship, and no adoption. You'd also have to include Satan et al, who clearly will never repent.

As for reconciling all, see 2 Cor. 5:18-21 "Yet it all comes from God, the One who reconciled us to himself by means of the Anointed and assigned us to this service of reconciliation. Through the Anointed God reconciled the world to himself, not holding their faults against them, and gave us the message of reconciliation. That means we are the Anointed's representatives and God pleads through us. So, on behalf of the Anointed, we plead with you to be reconciled to God! For this One who knew no sin was made sin for our sakes, so that because of Him we can become right with God."

Paul says two things that seem on the surface to be contradictory: we are reconciled, and we need to be reconciled. But the answer is clear when we remember what it means to reconcile. It cannot be done by only one person, even God; it takes two to reconcile, and both must be willing. So God offers reconciliation to all, but not all accept.

Where is the scripture that teaches or shows anyone getting a second chance in the next life?

"... The 'logic' of hell in the bible is surprisingly simple: You receive back the treatment/effects you gave other agents (including God and yourself) with some kind of multiplier effect. [The bible is full of images of this reciprocity concept: reaping what you sow, being paid back, suffering loss as you had despoiled others, unkindness for unkindness shown, apathy for apathy rendered, 'eye for an eye', proportional judgement, etc] This is suited as well to what we have said of honor debts and shame as a response. You dishonor God; you receive dishonor in return. Appropriately your required response is to acknowledge your own need -- in effect, giving up your "honor" -- by admitting that you need God's help to pay the debt. ..."

[link to www.broadcaster.org.uk]

There are no exceptions to all and every.

Yes all will willingly reconcile in the end.

God is alpha and omega and He knows His creation and what they will do.

He did not make anyone to be eternally punished. All things have had to work together in order for us all to learn the difference in good and evil and to willingly choose the good.

the idea here is to accept Jesus in THIS life.
that is the teaching.
but, for those who refuse, well... it won't be pretty for those. but its a far stretch from burning in hell forever like the fundies want to teach.

Sorry, but that's one thing I can't believe. If I were a first-class person, modest, kind, always there for others and serving others' needs but didn't believe in Jesus, I don't think I'd be kicked out of heaven.

the idea here is to accept Jesus in THIS life.
that is the teaching.
but, for those who refuse, well... it won't be pretty for those. but its a far stretch from burning in hell forever like the fundies want to teach.

There are no exceptions to the meaning of reconcile.

There is no indication that all who are made to bow are reconciled, or that they ever will to do so; you can't just claim they will.

God made us with a free will, and it isn't free if we cannot refuse him. This is much more than a moral lesson; it's a choice between accepting God and rejecting Him. The very gospel itself hinges on this point, not a moral lesson.

"So God offers reconciliation to all, but not all accept."

agreed. but, scripture does tell us that some will not be reconciled. a small number, but still some will not.

the idea here is to accept Jesus in THIS life.
that is the teaching.
but, for those who refuse, well... it won't be pretty for those. but its a far stretch from burning in hell forever like the fundies want to teach.

I still await scriptural support for anyone at all ever getting a second chance after this life.



The bottom line is indeed that people need to accept Jesus in this life. As Paul told the Greeks, God had overlooked ignorance of Himself in the past, but now that Jesus has risen from the dead, there are no more excuses.

But whether there is an eternal hell is not up to "fundies" but the whole teaching of scripture. The OT tells us very little, but the NT speaks of the everlasting nature of both life and death, salvation and separation, and the finality of one's moral state when the Millennium ends.

I cannot read about child torturers and think that eternal hell is adequate punishment for the monsters who do this. If that's what "fundies" teach, I gladly stand with them on this point, because I love the victims more than the perpetrators. Justice will be done, and God Himself says "Vengeance is mine, I will repay". I cannot imagine a heaven where the child killer and the child shake hands and let bygones be bygones.

There are no exceptions to the meaning of reconcile.

There is no indication that all who are made to bow are reconciled, or that they ever will to do so; you can't just claim they will.

God made us with a free will, and it isn't free if we cannot refuse him. This is much more than a moral lesson; it's a choice between accepting God and rejecting Him. The very gospel itself hinges on this point, not a moral lesson.

Once you come to realize that God indeed plans to reconcile all of His creation you will love Him even more.

this.
the deception is that God is a torturer if we do not bow down. the deception takes the LOVE out of the whole thing. many are being led astray, refusing God because of this false message.

God never intended for people to go to the eternal lake of fire. His plan is to reconcile EVERYONE and avails ample opportunity to do so.

sister in Christ, the scriptural support was already given.
there will be nothing evil in heaven. holy will not be in the same place as unholy. all sin is on equal playing field with God. He is the judge, not us.

I'm sorry, but I didn't see any scripture that says anyone gets another chance after this life. I do agree that nothing bad will be in heaven of course; not sure the reason for adding that.

Question to both of you:

Can one person force another to reconcile?

And we can't get around the problem by saying God finds a way to make them "want" to choose it. This would make choice and free will a farce.

God doesn't force anyone to choose it.
it happens when the obvious is in front of you.
nobody can do this for another.

People can look God straight in the eye and still reject him. Salvation is not simply believing that God exists, as James made clear. It is reconciliation, and there is absolutely no guarantee that all who see God will accept "the obvious".

God has made salvation by faith, not sight. If people won't accept him here, they won't accept him there. So again, and in the absence of scriptures indicating otherwise, no one who rejects Jesus in this life will accept him in the next.

People can look God straight in the eye and still reject him. Salvation is not simply believing that God exists, as James made clear. It is reconciliation, and there is absolutely no guarantee that all who see God will accept "the obvious".

God has made salvation by faith, not sight. If people won't accept him here, they won't accept him there. So again, and in the absence of scriptures indicating otherwise, no one who rejects Jesus in this life will accept him in the next.

i think it has more to do with letting go of sin and evil. this is where the problem lies. it's not just seeing Jesus face to face and not accepting it. that's part, but the other part is not letting the purification process complete.

it seems to me that in some scripture that we really do not comprehend how deeply embedded sin gets enmeshed. Jesus talks about it.

"So God offers reconciliation to all, but not all accept."

agreed. scripture does tell us that some will not be reconciled. a small number, but still some will not.

We can believe it because He says so.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

What is the point of a resurrection if there is no second chance? What is the point of a second death if the first one is final?

You're not addressing the meaning of reconcile, and the need for both parties to willingly accept it.

The point of resurrection is to spend eternity wherever we chose: with God or apart from God. The first death is physical, a separation of body and spirit. The second is spiritual, a separation of spirit from God.

Ok, you want the meaning of reconcile.

RECONCI'LE, v.t. [L. reconcilio; re and concilio; con and calo, to call, Gr. The literal sense is to call back into union.]


1. To conciliate anew; to call back into union and friendship the affections which have been alienated; to restore to friendship or favor after estrangement; as, to reconcile men or parties that have been at variance.

Go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother - Matt. 5.

We pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Cor. 5. Eph. 2. Col. 1.


2. To bring to acquiescence, content or quiet submission; with to; as, to reconcile one's self to afflictions. It is our duty to be reconciled to the dispensations of Providence.

3. To make consistent or congruous; to bring to agreement or suitableness; followed by with or to.

The great men among the ancients understood how to reconcile manual labor with affairs of state.

Some figures monstrous and misshap'd appear, considered singly, or beheld too near; which but proportion'd to their light and place, due distance reconciles to form and grace.

4. To adjust; to settle; as, to reconcile differences or quarrels.



Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

You still don't understand what I'm saying. Of course this is the def. of reconcile, but ONE PERSON CANNOT FORCE ANOTHER TO DO IT; IT TAKES TWO willing parties. And you keep ignoring the scripture that says "BE RECONCILED TO GOD". You have no answer as to why Paul would say "you are reconciled" and then also "you need to be reconciled".

Do you honestly believe Satan will be reconciled to God??