The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either

i think there is a place, that is a sort of holding place or a limbo, until it is decided whether or not they are staying or going back.

i have watched many NDE vids. interesting, all of them. some are fakes, of course.

i have been saying the same thing since the start of the thread. i didn't realize we were arguing.

Beyond common thinking and I have nothing to document,

But could satan have access the consciousness of some before they make it back permanently to the Father. Think of the implications there.. He could certainly stir the pot sending someone back with their reality filled with deception. Maybe even the Father allows this for some as it ultimately serves His purpose to bring all back that will come.. Hmmmm.

For almost if not all accounts, of those who saw hell in their NDE's, they either converted to Christianity, or, became a much better person. So why would Satan do this?

Now, does Satan mislead some in their NDEs? I do believe so.

There's some accounts, of those believing there's no sin, after returning from their NDEs. Meaning, they can do any acts good or bad, without consequences.

Most people don't care about searching for truth.

I should have used the word discussion. 'Argument' is a bit strong, and I do apologize.

converting to Christianity because of the fear of being eternally tortured by demons in a hellish realm is NOT the reason to come to God. but many do. ask any fundie. it negates the love message completely.

There's countless scriptures that tell us to both love and fear God.

Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

fear as in revere.

The meaning of 'fear' is pretty clear when you read the context of the entire verse.

The possible answer as to why satan would turn some to Christ with visions of demons in hell is when they come back filled with this false realities they scare more away from the Truth by selling hellfire damnation with pitchforks and men in red suits. Satan just loves turning people away from God and he is quite good at it.

Still too, even if satan converts a non believer, we must consider that the majority of Christians are still going to be deceived when satan is defacto on the earth. Does one truly "believe" in Christ if they worship the false?

You are god when you reconnect with higher concsiousness. So you will want to go to hell because you will feel bits from your being being stripped. You will want to be all you can be, hence heaven, and so you will send yourself to hell. Because when you increase in consciousness you are ONE with God, and at level of awareness is HURTFULl because it sheds light on a series of errors.

So you decide not to have that much awareness and be "in the dark" so that your errors are corrected so you can appropriately expand synchronistically and in symmetry and experience all you can be=heaven.

Everyone ends up in god eventually --just more pain and correction, by your own will, the more errors in perception you accumulate.

In duality you NEEd the opposites--so most people are not complete. Various shades of gray and error. You need this for balance and symmetry to exist in duality. You need the "darks" and the people who want to degrade other people just as you need the "biased good" fighting for greater causes then themselves, prior to unification. This is not incomplete or "incorrect" this is CORRECT within duality.

But once this ends and everyone has perfect perception, there is no need for pain and suffering for self justification--no one is "special" or better you are all in the totality.. No separation needing destruction of ego for advancement or pain for the structure. It's just a perfection.

So it's very surprising in that it's very mathematical. It's just about how you actually see before corruption at base perception, not the usual thinking of judgment in the bible, although that exists in duality and correct in cases.

Its like an equation. Things CANNOT be any other way. It's not a created fiction for a feel gooder or psychological pain, it's the only way reality can exist and have consistency.

Just for reality to exist *

No consistency or non consistency. *

As stated, look at the other type of NDEs. In these accounts, many believe that there's no sin. So commit any an all types of sins, there's no punishment from God.

I say, it's clear, which group is being deceived.

The Bible is very clear in that those whose names are not written in the Book of Life get tossed into the lake of fire.

The Lord Jesus also says their worm will not die in that lake. Worm is code for spirit.


Obviously their bodies will be burned up (duh), but spirit is not flesh and will survive trapped in that place not experiencing physical pain because the physical is burned up (again duh).

Being stuck in this place until the Heavens and Earth are recreated (final death) will totally suck because there will be no refreshing just the knowledge that you could of lived forever, but chose not to, because you loved some stupid worthless sin.

THERE WILL COME A TIME BEFORE YOUR DEATH THAT REPENTANCE WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE, SO BEST TO REPENT NOW AND SAVE YOURSELF.

Uncle

OP - Are you now or have you ever been Mormon?

Hey Salt, Gonna challenge you on this one (with civility, of course!)...

I agree that hell is not necessarily active torment for everyone, though there are some who are said to suffer it. It is the place of "not God", the place of separation, the "second death" because death is separation. A well-behaved person who rejected the free offer of salvation will simply get what they chose: to be away from God, and thus from all that comes from God. The implications of this separation are bad enough.

But I must challenge the claim that hell is not eternal. Jesus said in Matthew 25:41,46, "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels’… Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." If punishment is not eternal, then neither is life; they are in the same sentence and use the same word, aionion.

In John 3:36 Jesus said, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them."

Hebrews 6:1-2 says, "Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of… the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment."

Jude 1:7 says, "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

There's little point in having an eternal fire if there are no souls there eternally.

I also have to challenge the rationale regarding Rev. 14:10, specifically the "root fallacy" of theion. The root word in this verse is #2303 theion, but the root of the word for God is #2316 theos. One cannot simply take part of a word and call it the same root, and the affixes often make one root into the same form as another, though Greek scholars show them to come from two completely different words. Sulfer is thus completely unrelated to God. The same applies to Acts 17:29.

Now to aion. As shown already, its duration must be defined in context. While in itself it simply means "an unknown length of time", we can only always restrict it to mean "an always limited length of time" by forcing it against the context, as shown re. Mat. 25:41,46. That is, if somethine is unspecified, it cannot be forced to always mean limited; the meaning of "everlasting" is included in "unknown". Note also Rev. 10:5, where aion describes God as "the eternal Living One"; who would say that God will not live forever?

And now to kolasis. That passage in Matthew refers to the same event as in Rev. "Correction" is only ONE part of the semantic range; it includes also "punishment". There is nothing in the word itself that must mean "not out of vengeance"; this must be derived from context. And if the context is not conclusive, then we cannot arbitrarily omit some of its semantic range.

But even if all of this evidence is discarded, consider this: To say that people can be tormented into submission is to paint God exactly as the atheists paint him, as someone who forces people to obey him. Salvation is all about love and relationship, and you cannot scare or punish people into a relationship. Do people want to live with someone they divorced, and do they come back after they've been punished by their estranged spouse? Of course not, but this is the situation with God punishing people in hell until they cry "uncle".

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 10/11/2012 09:07 AM

Hell was originally made for the devil and his angels, not human beings; however, those human beings who cling to sin and reject Jesus will go to hell. Hell does NOT burn for eternity, it is the RESULTS that are eternal!!There are many verses in scripture to support it, even in Revelation it's called the "second death"... death means just that... DEATH, not burning for eternal ages! Infact, the lost are NEVER promised eternal life, not even in a place called hell! Only the saved are!! It's one of the most horrendous doctrines drummed up by satan in all of the bible to turn people from a loving God and make them think he's some tyrant in the sky waiting to burn us up! It started in paganism and was adopted into Christianity, and it's just one of many false doctrines that are rampant in most churches today!

No, never. there is nothing mormon in this teaching.

Going back to the original languages translated to English we get just what we find in the KJV.

Textus Receptus Greek to English

[link to www.logosapostolic.org]

This fire that burns the wicked/tares is said to be at the end of the world. This is later mentioned again in Revelation.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them....14 This is the second death. And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;

As God creates a new earth all sin is burned up including Satan. Gone forever.

The saints of God/Christians, live for eternity with new immortal bodies on the new earth.

OP has discovered a bit of the truth found in the RESTORED gospel

How are these bible verses related?
Thread: New Age Beliefs VS Christian Beliefs (Page 7)

The Temporary Hell & The Hell That Has No End 
Thread: 99 but one lost sheep

Godhead
[link to www.lightplanet.com]

Why do We Worship God?
Thread: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false. (Page 2)

THE WAY TO FREEDOM 
[link to 14lds.com]

This compilation WAS added to my Log of Direct Links:
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.

3*8**

The Bible is man made. Not the word of God. Not a historically accurate account of anything.

New Testament stories are a rehash of Old testament. All allagorical. People from stories made real over the centuries.

Earth is a Hell planet. Prison/school. There are worse places. We are here to mature our souls.

Our creators have been doing this earth type protocol for eons. Why? because it works.

you know shit about hell...i didnt read your post; but i assume u site one source, the bible and its non disclosures and misrepresentations.

that said, neither do i;

but i have my own theory: hell is a self made manifestation of ficticious knowledge acquired from institutional dictaates.

It is a ficticious construction and "god" has nothing to do with it.... only the man made (fiction) misrepresentations from the bible constitute "hell".... wich is usually consequences of inate human attributes that were adaptive at one time.

you know shit about hell...i didnt read your post; but i assume u site one source, the bible and its non disclosures and misrepresentations.

that said, neither do i;

but i have my own theory: hell is a self made manifestation of ficticious knowledge acquired from institutional dictaates.

It is a ficticious construction and "god" has nothing to do with it.... only the man made (fiction) misrepresentations from the bible constitute "hell".... wich is usually consequences of inate human attributes that were adaptive at one time.

its aloso why most christians are inherently arrogant, vindictive, and tend to "fight or flight" when their faith is confronted.... it is the sociological construct; the fiction; the institution.

the beneficiaries of the concept of "hell" would seek to take an authority or knowledge of its existence.... this is misrepresentation; fraud.

Intelligence.

Note the institutional aspects and inherent selfish interests (7 deadlies) that constitute hell; no one can take authoirty in it; these are falehoods; making the bible a misrepresentation, in BAD FAITH... thus the source of it: the elite a.k.a King james

Luke 12:59 is not talking about hell. You are a liar and this proves it. Here are the verses surrounding Luke 12:59 and anyone can read it and see you you are twisting its meaning. From KJV-



A Warning against Hypocrisy
1 In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, Mt. 16.6 · Mk. 8.15 which is hypocrisy.
2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known. Mk. 4.22 · Lk. 8.17
3 Therefore, whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

Whom to Fear
Mt. 10.26-31
4 ¶ And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
6 Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Confessing Christ before Men
8 ¶ Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
9 but he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. Mt. 12.32 · Mk. 3.29
11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
12 for the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say. Mt. 10.19, 20 · Mk. 13.11 · Lk. 21.14, 15

The Parable of the Rich Fool
13 ¶ And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me.
14 And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?
15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
17 and he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

Care and Anxiety
Mt. 6.25-34
22 ¶ And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?
25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory 1 Kgs. 10.4-7 · 2 Chr. 9.3-6 was not arrayed like one of these.
28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is today in the field, and tomorrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Treasure in Heaven
Mt. 6.19-21
32 ¶ Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Watchful Servants
35 ¶ Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; Mt. 25.1-13
36 and ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, Mk. 13.34-36 when he will return from the wedding; that, when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. Mt. 24.43, 44

The Unfaithful Servant
Mt. 24.45-51
41 ¶ Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46 the lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required; and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Jesus the Cause of Division
Mt. 10.34-36
49 ¶ I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; Mk. 10.38 and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 for from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Mic. 7.6

Discerning the Times
Mt. 16.1-4 · Mk. 8.11-13
54 ¶ And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.
56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?

Agree with Your Adversary
Mt. 5.25, 26
57 ¶ Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
58 When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison.
59 I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.

The books of the Bible are from prophets of God who wrote as they were moved to do so. What they wrote no man could know. Most all prophecies given have already been fulfilled as we are 2000 years from the crucifixion. Fulfilled future events proves it was from God as only God knows the future.

You the non-believer will not pretend to tell Christians what the Bible is.

Has religion been used to control the masses for millennia? Yes, and Jesus warned of this very thing. The one thing the false or antiChrist system at Rome cannot do is control the Bible. Rome was exposed in the OT 650 BC before it even existed, then again by Jesus in greater detail, again before the Roman Church ever existed!

Atheism too is a control from Rome's NWO. Atheism is a NWO lie.

This thread is about the hot topic of Hell and what the Bible actually says. If you would like to dispute the Bible further go start your own off-topic thread.

It's very Mormon, you're just not using the terms.