The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either

it might interest you to know that i had no clue what was inside the bible until three years after i met God.

I think they were created carnal/fleshly but yes, did become mortal through the disobedience, but lived on almost 1000 yrs after.[ wait though... I think immortal means "can't die" and mortal means "can die", so they were always mortal, but "positively [would] die" now after sinning or falling short of God's righteous requirements.]

And yes about descendants: Romans 5:12 "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned—". [says one man, i think, b/c "Adam not deceived."]

And v. much agree w/ your last statement.

I woke up this morning thinking,"Amazing how much Salt and I have in common", theology aside. Hope I don't end the day w/ you ready to wring my neck.

hahaha.... i doubt i will feel like wringing anybody's neck by sundown. lol...

I did bring up a valid point though Salt. If you were raised in isolation and with no access to religious texts, how would one know what it is to be 'holy' and how would one live a 'holy' life?

God finds ways.

Some of us believe that God reveals himself in a variety of ways beyond intellectual analysis of religious texts and similar. Some don't.

Everyone has what is called a "conscience." Even if one doesn't know what to call it. Some have called it the "moral imperative." Some know it as the "still, small voice."

And if we are operating on the assumption that there IS a Creator and that He cares about His creatures coming to know His righteousness, then it is not that much of a stretch of the imagination to think that He can try a person's heart in whatever way He chose.

Okay then under that premise, can it then be said that one can have no regard for religious doctrines or texts and still live a 'holy' life?

What if consciousness alone is 'God' manifested?

there is only One who is Holy. if a person wants to live in the image of the Holy One, then it would make sense that He would show us how.

I'm sure some people would say that or something similar to create their own "god." Safer that way.

Probably an interesting topic for another thread.

You said you can't become 'holy' by being a good person in reference to that other reply. Now if there is only One who is holy, then that would imply that no one can become holy. But you are referencing 'living in the image of the Holy One', which would imply one's behavior/actions, so that seems a bit contradictory to me.

If we can agree that these religious texts and scripture are NOT mandatory to live a 'holy' life, then why do people cling to the texts every last words as if it were the only means to make sense of this existence?

What do you mean create their own 'God'? Who created your version of 'God'?

What do you imply by 'safer that way'?

you can't become holy just by being a good person in this life. there is nothing contradictory in that statement.

if you want to become holy, then you would have to learn how from the Holy One.

hint: you can't become holy be being a good person.

this reeks of a thread hijack.

Sure it's contradictory. First you said you can't become Holy by being a good person. Then you said there is only one holy one, so that would imply NO ONE can be holy. Then you said we can live in the image of the Holy One, which would imply some type of behavior/action. If making and honest effort to be a good/kind person is not representative of living in the image of the 'Holy One', then what is?

I'm telling you 'holy' is man-made construct. That's why this rhetoric makes no sense. There is no universal definition or understanding of what it means to be 'holy' because it is a conceptualization that is a product of mankind and entirely dependent on the perspective of the individual observer.

Tell me, how does one learn how from the Holy one? With the use of texts & scripture, or by some other means?

I agree. I suggested another thread to the poster.

you already know the answer to this.
holy does not equate good deeds

i don't appreciate your attempts to hijack the thread with this.

the topic is the scriptures on Hell. if you have something to add on this topic, feel free.

I understand people don't like addressing difficult questions.

I'll take my concerns elsewhere.

You think I'm deliberately attempting to hijack your thread by engaging in honest debate when you were doing the same thing yesterday arguing with that 'demon' lady? Was it deliberate on your part yesterday too?

it is not a difficult question.
it is being answered.
you can't receive it.

one cannot be God.
that includes you.

The same way that Abraham did, Job did, David did, Peter did......

P.S. I didn't say I was 'God', but a fragment of the Creator, yes.

A piece of a puzzle is not a puzzle itself, but you cannot have a complete puzzle without all the pieces!

Keep2theCode, did i lose you on this one?
i was hoping you would chime in here.

I gave a link to an article I wrote about original sin, rather than copy it all here, esp. since it really is stretching the topic too much IMHO. I think we've reached an impasse about whether there are any 2nd chances and don't see the point in continuing about that.

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 10/11/2012 08:07 PM

This may be profitable to discuss: What do you think would constitute a "first chance?"

We've talked about whether or not people get a 2nd chance to be saved after this life, pretty much throughout the thread. I really can't think of anything else to say about it.

I wasn't asking about a second chance. I was asking about a "first chance" and how any of us could ever know if someone had received it.

Oh, you want to talk about what happens to people who never heard the gospel. Maybe start a thread about it?

Well, that would be ok, too, but one can't have a second chance without ever having a first chance. People who have heard the Gospel but never responded to it perhaps have not had what is called their first chance. I'm not saying that we humans have the ability to discern this, just that it's a topic seldom discussed.