The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either

There was a time before Jesus was born when Israel were chosen. All others were not. The same applies today. God's people are Christian just as the child has only one father. It is just a fact.

The Gospel went to the world in the late 18th century and continues.

Ultimately such a judgment is left to God, but we shouldnt make excuses for those who would say there are many paths to God.

Forever is a figurative word that just means for ever until they are gone for ever. The same verbiage was used for Sodom and Gomorrah burning to ashes. Yet they do not still burn today.

This old earth will burn as Sodom did when brimstone rains down and God creates anew. All sin will be gone.

I apologize that you inferred from my statement that I supported the "many paths to God," theory.

Unanswerable.



Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day comes, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that comes shall burn them up, said the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Obadiah 1:16 For as you have drunk on my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yes, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

Sodom and Gomorrah being an example of what is to come.

Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

2 Pet 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample to those that after should live ungodly;

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The lost will "perish"

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ez.18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? said the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for ever more. -Psalms 37:27

For the LORD loves judgment, and forsakes not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. -Psalms 37:28

The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever. -Psalms 37:29

In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death. -Proverbs 12:28

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life: -Romans 2:7

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. -Romans 6:23

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. -1 Corinthians 15:54

But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death, and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: -2 Timothy 1:10
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When the Smoke Clears

[link to www.youtube.com]

Even the earliest of Protestant Reformers understood this truth about Hell..

[link to biblelight.net]

Enoch, Elijah and Moses are still in their graves!

[link to www.cgom.org]

And - if I may add for clarity....the three phrases I used to describe mankind's knowledge of and/or communion with his Creator are all popularly used words and phrases found in modern Christian apologetics....

The "moral imperative" reference can be found in the writings of C.S. Lewis, a prominent Christian author.

The "still, small voice" reference comes directly from the OT.

The term "conscience" has been widely used by Christians of all persuasions to describe each person's individual perception of his Creator in an effort to encourage tolerance amid the many differing tenets found in Christianity...for example....those fighting against religious persecutions often used the term to explain that since one's religious beliefs were a matter of "conscience," it was immoral to persecute him...etc.

Last Edited by Dried Up Hag on 10/11/2012 08:39 PM

[link to www.youtube.com]

God's wrath....the 7th Seal.....will last approx. one year and will comprise the final section of Daniel's 70th week.


Those on earth subject to God's wrath.......will know that it is coming from Him......and will curse God......and blaspheme God......and will not repent.


This will continue when they are thrown into hell......there is no reason to believe otherwise.


Hell is not just for Satan and the angels in rebellion. Two men are thrown into the Lake of Fire as well.....namely the man of evil and false prophet. (Rev. 19: 20)


And why shouldn't they be......as Satan is their father.



Unbelievers are referred to in Scripture as children of the devil.



"And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us." (Luke 16:26)

yes, i read it. thanks.
my question, after reading the link was:

regarding Genesis 2 & 3:
what other reason for preventing them from eating of the tree of life would there be if they only suffered a physical death.

I'm about to shut down for the night so just a quick response...

All the text gives us is that the tree of life would enable Adam to live forever. Sounds purely physical to me.

Hell is exactly what contemporary theories love to dodge.

He also explained that those who know him will keep his commandments. He also said that God IS Love.

To know God is to know love. Not love between family and friends only. Love that bridges the gap between people that don't know one another. Love that saves the lives of people we have never seen nor heard of.

To think that Jesus would send little girls and boys from 'whoknowswheristan' to hell because they didn't believe in the 'human' form of Jesus that was on earth 2000 years ago is contrary to all of Christian doctrine.

Believing in the fallibility of God's preserved word (1599 & 1611) becomes dogma.

Unfortunately for Christians, to know Jesus, is to keep His commandments. To not keep these commandments is to not know Jesus and vice versa.

Matthew 7:21-23

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There is only one way to know we are saved being 'christians'.
It is to walk as he walked, to keep His commandments. Other than that we can't possibly 'know' we are saved. We are just believing something just as some people believe Satan is trying to save us from Jesus.

And just so you all know, the 'Thee' 'thou' 'thy' 'thine' and 'ye' s of the 1599 and 1611 bibles are not the language that were used then or for even 400 years before then.

That type of language hadn't been used since the 13th century in England. The reason they were written that way is because of care in translation.

Thee, thou, thy, and thine are always singular – always! Ye, you, your, and yours are always plural – always!

Hebrew and Greek also distinguish between the two, but only the superior English of the King James Version distinguishes the precise pronouns of the Hebrew and Greek.

God preserved his word. Read it. And live it. For hearing the word and doing nothing is self-deception. We live in darkness in such a case and can't see where(heaven or hell) it is we are going.

what i am looking for is your stance as to why, after Adam and Eve fell/sinned, why is it that God prevented them from living forever.

EDIT:

to pose my question better:

after Adam/Eve fell, and then the ground was cursed, then told that they will return to the dust (they will physically die one day) why THEN did God prevent them from eating of the tree of life?

Genesis 3:17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

20 Adam[c] named his wife Eve,[d] because she would become the mother of all the living.

21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

the tree of life sounds strangely similar to Jesus and the cross. I am wondering if they are one and the same. it seems that the curse to die and the prevention from eating of the tree of life served two different meanings. if so, the tree of life represents reconciliation with God.

I agree about 'tree of life and Adam expelled to prevent his eating from' is weird, and it's something that I've put aside to return to a few times, wondering if I can gain any insight. What you say about preventing him being spiritually dead, yet immortal, feels like it's getting somewhere. Adam is supposed to be a special case, created perfect, not deceived, and a mass-murderer of all his descendants. So he's not supposed to be resurrected, having abundantly had his chance. He actually chose death, so deserves to stay dead, according to this line of thought. I think this describes Satan too, who is immortal? [I refuse to look up anything else today.] I'm pretty sure Satan is not supposed to get another chance, but don't know if he will be non-existent? or just imprisoned forever? I don't think even he will be consciously tortured for eternity, nor do I want that for him or anyone. I still think immortal means "can't die" and that Adam never was immortal.

Whenever you are faced with a choice, one that brings down your being or one that lifts up

In that choice, you are choosing Jesus, meaning, or meaningless, falsehood,

So if you choose Jesus but go home and beat your wife, this is not really choosing meaning because you are going against yourself on a deep level. Everything being truth or god at that legel. Unless you are so low it doesn't make a difference. 99 percent of the time however someone is going against their being.

When you go to church do good things for people. Not necessarily out of a reason or fear of going to hell, because that is of your being, you are choosing to do a thing that brings your being and others up. then that is meaning, the bread of life, Jesus Christ.

It's not really about the mind, it's what Christ means. Whenever you do things that are meaningful and lift people up you are following Christ.

Whenever you enjoy the degradation of meaning and life you are going against yourself, losing bits, and hence dying and not following Christ (meaning in the next iteration you will be "less of a being" which means there will be less to degrade by then because there won't be much to degrade --having lost intelligence, character, and so forth).

It's called hell because of the pain of having lost being.

Or actually continually losing it by being in a place of falsehood.

The self actualization of all of mans biased knowledge, ideals and half truths and moralities is what you call hell.

Because by being away from truth or god your being isn't "fed" so like a plant away from water and sun it starts withering and starving. It's not just a loss and then pain of that loss, but the continual loss of not living in god but a world made of your own mental creations, which can be incredibly biased relative to truth of being.

So that pain of being in a sort of no mans land and losing being as it happens, as you see "what could have been" is what you can call "hell"

Which mentally can seem eternal even if the soul doesn't cease to exist. Just a longer path toward truth.

the only way to eternal life is thru Jesus. period end of sentence. so, since Jesus was with God since the beginning, is God, and is the only way to the father, it makes perfect sense that the 'tree of life' is the same as the 'vine' and is the same as Jesus.

Also hell is not a "separate" place from earth. Hell can occur on earth. Our world very likely is a type of hell in that our mental creations are now dictating it and for some this is manifesting in the falsehood of a hell.

When you reach a certain critical mass of dispersion or falsehood you get a closed place that is Removed from truth and is just* a hell. Being a broken symmetry or "no mans land" dimension

Earth can go either way and there will be a separation, of the heavens realm by being in tune with truth and the more hellish realms.

Earth was always a kind of balance but it was never separate. Hell can also be earth because most of the real suffering occurs from mental or psychological torture, not physical.

In a very strict sense relative to Eden earth right now is hell. So it just goes to show you heaven and hell might be very much closer than you might think. Not being any separate place but kind of like venn diagrams with many intersections across worlds and dimensions.

So maybe you are already in hell, and debating on the nature of hell, In hell, lol.

the topic of this thread pertains to scripture reference.
your post sounds like your own ideas or new age stuff.
not really what i'm looking for in here.
thanks anyway.

lol....um.... no

this is a picnic compared

Yes, the real hell is the separation from God and all that is good.

Imagine it like a prison where everyone there is a either a liar, murderer, rapist, pedophile, thief etc. or a combination of these. Imagine being stuck there with them because you are one of them. (Not you personally OP, just in general speaking)

These are the ones that are referred to as being 'without' or outside the gates and do not have access to the tree of life. These ones are the ones that are yet to be reconciled to God.

Revelation 22:12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie

Last Edited by _2 swords_ on 10/12/2012 12:35 AM

Yes, it makes sense that Jesus is the tree of life.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

It's really about the paradox and the singularity. Embodied in free will or the ego.

The very same desire to be all you can be on one side is reflected as the desire of wanting to be as self serving as possible on earth. It's like an error judgment.

When you project to the higher consciousnessand god, god doesn't judge you, you have an ego and you want to "correct" the errors done of not being but that is the same ego that in reverse paradox wants to get away from being.

So it's really about going against free will, with your free will, which is a contradiction. you want to learn, but then you don't like it when you are actually learning. so, you have to "defer" to the system....like Christ(which might not be possible because of certain things in fate, who you are)

The mind is an illusion. It's causal relationships don't mean anything intrinsically. when you get it involved, it starts "catching up" to the future and eating the "live event" because you end up anticipating or expecting and so that which was going to happen doesn't really materialize.

And then you have the people on the side that know this but are pissed off because they have "failed" they BELEIVE and try to re enforce this judgment you have inside so you don't get around the paradox.

the paradox is the ego and free will. It's an illusion and it just creates something outside to arbitrate it.

It's not inherently true. But the mind can be very convincing especially for people who are severely incapacitated. So you judge yourself. then you get mad afterward because you judge you shouldnt judge (look at that insanity, look at it) and then you go back and do the same thing.

It's all bullshit, at the singularity the fool becomes the wise man and the wise man he fool. Be who you are, base perception, bla.

Judgment is really a way to cut the stem to make it grow stronger. It s really is being a dumbass above and wanting to be more, and then being here and all pissed at what is happening. Makes no sense, just choose Eden and lets get the fuck out of here.

Alan grant "hammond, Ive decided not to endorse your park"

Hammond " lets get the fuck out of here" (or something like that)

No it was "so have I"

Yea, sorry about that.

Yea. I was just giving a perspective.

It's also not new age stuff. It says in the bible at the beginning that god separated the dark from the light and made the firmament in the middle. Earth is I guess metaphysically a midpoint. Now, if you are to think of science and higher dimensions and also think that he'll and heaven is something of our own creation ( our being)-that heaven is made as a co creation by the beingness of the kinds of people in it (which I guess is new age) the "earth dimension" could be an intersection of all the other realms. Meaning we Create our own reality because of who we are, (law of attraction) and this translates into the reality as a whole.

So hell could be experienced by people on earth. Because hell is a state of mind and a state of being. Of course there are places that are likely completely cut off and those are more formally the "hell"

But you can still have hell on earth in the shades of gray we have now. Earth in other words is a free will zone. Meaning no one ca,e and said "thou shall only be so good, but not so bad. So as not that thou create a heaventh, but neither that thou shall create a hell. Amen" no. It's free will, and so obviously you can have both heaven and hell on earth. Not the full glory because then you wouldn't be on earth but there is no reason to think there are not huge intersections and other dimensions

Or that we couldn't have a heaven on earth if we were of a certain kind of being.

Hi,

By tree of life do you mean the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Here is a snippet from an in-depth article that explains it all very well for those that have an ear that can hear.

Most Christians denominations teach that Adam and Eve were wicked people because they violated God's commandment not to eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Yet, that is not what God Himself said. He declared, "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil" (Gen. 3:22). God knows the difference between good and evil, but Adam and Eve didn't when they were first created. The reason why God created this earth was to allow us the opportunity to become more like Him and inherit all that He has (Rev.21:7). But in order to achieve this lofty objective it was necessary for man to learn about and distinguish between good and evil. However, the only way to do that is through personal experience.

But man could not do that while he lived in heaven with God, the Father of our spirits, because evil cannot exist there. Furthermore, since God is all good, it is against His character to teach us evil. But without a knowledge of evil, it is not possible for us to fully understand good ... - [link to www.14lds.com]

The purpose of hell and the lake of fire, is to stop the creature from sinning, once in a spirit realm, a spirit is locked in its likeness and cannot willingly change from evil to good. It has been spoiled or corrupted and cannot be reconstituted.
What ever degree of torment it takes for a spirit to not sin and blapheme God, is what it is given.
Hell or Hades is a hollow slab of rock deep in the earths mantle, it will be thrown in the lake of fire, but most of mankind with reside in and on there.