The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either

Why do Christians think they have a monoploy on God?

Can't other religious paths get you to heaven?

get your head out of your ass and read other sacred texts

Excellent post sister, but the Bible also says many who are first will be last, and to whom much is given, much will be expected in return.

I believe a much higher percentage of female Sunday school teachers are going to be happy at the Bema judgement, than male pastors

Peace and God Bless,
Uncle

Thank you for your kind words and encouragement and I agree. I've spent 43 years as a non-Christian woman, and the past 1 1/2 with Jesus. In that time, I did not want to hear the message because the beast's doctrines filled my head and heart, but glory to God, He tears them down one by one!

Life today tells and shows us that women run many households and that it is the woman bringing home the latest Oprah book, the latest Eastern spirituality book, the latest "self help" book etc etc etc. thus leading the man (united to his wife as one) and children to disobedience. Instead of recognising that strengthening OUR faith increases the faith of the entire household, thus doing God's will, many choose to see it as evil and subjugation and thus reject His Will for us. But praise to Our Father in Heaven, the truth is there for us to understand.

Peace and love in the name of Jesus.

I will assume you aren't a troll, but I may be wrong in that assumption...

Why do you assume I haven't read "other sacred texts?" Have you? Which ones? How have they affected your life?

[link to www.hallvworthington.com]

Here all may see the spirit of the Lord not limited, but upon the handmaids and the servants is the Lord's spirit poured, and to be poured. Many thousands of servants and handmaids witness the spirit of the Lord poured upon them, the word of the Lord fulfilled. Upon the sons and daughters will the Lord pour out his spirit, and they shall prophesy, and many daughters and sons, and young men and old men, witness the spirit of the Lord upon them poured out, that visions are seen, old men dream dreams, and young men see visions, and their sons and their daughters do prophesy, Joel 2:28; and in Acts 2:16-18. The apostles there gathered together, waiting upon the Lord, and the Holy Ghost fell upon them, that were to wait for the spirit. This prophecy of Joel they saw the fulfilling of, yet to the world they were as men drunk. So here the apostles witnessed the fulfilling of the prophets, who are witnesses of Christ, whom the apostles did give testimony of, and did speak of the daughters prophesying; and Philip had four daughters that did prophesy, which the apostle did not forbid; and said the apostle, despise not prophesying. Here the prophet Joel was not against the daughters prophesying, nor the apostles were not against it, but said, despise not prophesying. The Lord said in 1 Chron16: 22. touch not my anointed, and do my prophets no harm. So you that persecute the daughters, on whom the spirit of the Lord is poured, and believe them not, you are those who despise the prophets, and despise prophesying, and so have broken the apostles' command, who said, despise not prophesying, and show that you are out of the prophets' doctrine, and the apostles' doctrine, standing against the promise of God with all your might, who said, he would pour forth his spirit upon all flesh, and his daughters should prophesy. How can you be established, that believe not the prophets? For believing the prophets they came to be established, as you may read, 2 Chron 20.

So how ignorant of the prophets and promises of God do they, called teachers of the world, make themselves manifest, and how in darkness they appear to the children of light. You who despise prophecy (1 Thess 5:20), and cast the daughters and sons, servants and handmaids into prison, who witness the spirit of the Lord God poured forth upon them, you show that you be out of the apostles' doctrine, and to be strangers to the spirit the scriptures were given forth from, and are ignorant of the church the apostle speaks of, who said let the prophets speak two or three, and let the others judge, and if anything be revealed to one that sits by, let the first hold his peace, for you may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted, and the spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets, for God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. This order was in the church of the saints, the prophets to speak two or three, and the others to judge; and if anything was revealed to another that sat by, the first held his peace; they might all prophesy one by one, that all might learn and be comforted, and the spirit of the prophets was subject to the prophets, and this was order, and not confusion, in all the churches of the saints, which is disorder and confusion in the churches of the world, who cannot endure a daughter to prophesy, for a daughter might prophesy, and a daughter is a prophetess, whom the spirit of the Lord is poured forth upon, and a son a prophet; for you never read that any of the prophets or apostles were against the daughters which had the spirit of the Lord poured forth upon them, but a daughter might prophesy in the church; for let your prophets speak two or three, and I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh, and your daughters shall prophesy.

So you that despise prophesying, despise God's command, and are out of Moses’ light and life, who said, would to God all the Lord's people were prophets, Num11:26, 27, 28,29. Daughters are the Lord's people; and when they were prophesying in the camp, there ran a young man and told Moses, and Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, and one of his young men answered and said, my Lord forbid them; but Moses said unto him, do you envy for my sake? Would to God all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them. Now mark Moses’ answer, how far Moses was from limiting the spirit, that he would have the Lord's spirit put upon them all, and said, would that all the Lord's people were prophets. Now hear you magistrates, priests and people, which do put into prison sons and daughters for prophesying, and the Lord's people, you show a contrary spirit, you show a spirit that has erred from Moses’ spirit, who cannot endure that the spirit of the Lord should be poured upon them, that they should prophesy, but would limit it to learned men, old books, and authors. And Anna the prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, which was about four-score and four years of age, came into the temple, who served God with fasting and prayer night and day, she spoke of Christ to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem. Luke 2:36-38. Here was a great testimony made about Jesus by Anna the prophetess; here you may see a daughter, who gave testimony of Jesus, who would be, and is a wonder in this our age, to see a woman of eighty-four years of age to speak of Jesus to all them that look for redemption in Jerusalem, as she did; the wicked ones would say, put her in prison, into prison with her would the priests say. And Paul, the minister of God, in Phil 4:2-3, there he entreats his true yoke-fellow to help those women which labored with him in the gospel, as you may there read. The women were joined with the other fellow-laborers, whose names are written in the book of life; and in Rom16 there you may see Priscilla and Aquila, Paul's helpers in Christ Jesus, who for his life laid down their necks. Here the wife Priscilla was an instructor, and was one of them that laid down their necks, and a helper in Christ Jesus; she and Aquila took Apollos, and expounded to him the way of God more perfectly, Acts 18:24-26, one who taught in the synagogue was instructed by her and him in the way of God more perfectly; at these you synagogue-teachers scoff, to be instructed by a woman, and you that forbid a woman to speak that has the spirit of the Lord, you forbid scripture. For Aquila and Priscilla had a church in their house, and the church in Priscilla and Aquila's house was to be greeted, 1 Cor 16:19, who were instructors; and in the aforesaid chap. Acts 18, he that was speaking boldly in the synagogue, witnessing Christ the second priest, the end of the first priesthood, that took tithes, the law, the offering, and the temple, Priscilla and Aquila expounded to him the way of God more perfectly, and the apostle Paul, a minister of the Lord, who witnessed the daughter's prophesying, said, I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea, that you receive her in the Lord as becomes saints, that you assist her in what business she has need of, for she has been a scourer of many, and of myself also, Rom 16:1-2. This was Phebe the sister, the servant of the church, which was to be received in the Lord, and assisted in whatsoever business she had need. And said the apostle, as touching Priscilla and Aquila his fellow-laborers in Christ Jesus, who laid down their necks for his life, unto whom he gave thanks, and not only he did give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles. Here you may see the account Aquila and Priscilla were in, who laid down their necks for the apostle, how thank-worthy they were; and Mary, in verse 6. was to be greeted, who bestowed much labor on the apostle.

You that cannot own the prophesying of the daughters, the women-laborers in the gospel, you are such as the apostle speaks of in the same chapter, which serve not the Lord Jesus Christ, but your own bellies, and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple, Rom 16, for these had departed from obedience, who the apostle speaks of, and your disobedience is missing to the apostles' doctrine, who cannot endure the prophesying of the sons and daughters, whom the spirit of the Lord is poured upon, Joel 2:28. Mary Magdalene saw Jesus after his resurrection, which on the first day of the week came to the sepulcher, and when she saw Jesus, she knew not that it was he, and said unto him, "master." Jesus said unto her, "touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father, but go unto my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto your Father, and my Father, unto your God, and my God." Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and he had spoken these things unto her; the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, the disciples were assembled, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said, peace be among you. Now here all may see that it was Mary Magdalene that was sent to declare his resurrection, and she was to tell the brethren (the disciples) where Christ was to go, to his Father, and our Father, his God, and our God, where her testimony was received. Now you that make a scoff and a wonder at a woman's declaring, you may see that it was Mary that first declared Christ after he was risen.

So be ashamed forever, and let all your mouths be stopped forever, that despise the spirit of prophecy in the daughters, and do cast them into prison, and do hinder the women-laborers in the gospel; and said the apostle, Christ in the male and in the female; and if Christ be in the female as well as in the male, is not he the same? And may not the spirit of Christ speak in the female as well as in the male? Is he there to be limited? Who is it that dare limit the holy one of Israel? For the light is the same in the male, and in the female, which comes from Christ, he by whom the world was made, and so Christ is one in all, and not divided; and who is it that dare stop Christ's mouth? who now is come to reign in his sons and daughters, Christ in the male, and Christ in the female? You that will not have him to reign in the female as well as in the male, you are against scripture, and will not have him to reign over you, 2 Cor 13. For that male in whom Christ does reign, rule and speak, he will own Christ in the female, there to reign, to rule and speak, and come to see the apostle's doctrine, a minister of Christ and of God, and not made by the will of man, who said, that Christ was in the male and in the female, Christ all in all, and Christ in you, except you be reprobates. Now you that be reprobates, in whom Christ does not reign nor rule, cannot endure that Christ should be in the female nor in the male, but them you will haul into prison, and yet profess the words, as the Pharisees did, to whom Christ said, I was sick, and in prison, and you visited me not; and I was naked and hungry, and you clothed me not, nor fed me. Now they which might have scripture, and would not have Christ to reign, said, when saw we you in prison, or naked, and hungry, and we clothed you not, or visited you not? Inasmuch as you did it not to the least of these, you did it not unto me, said Christ. So if they who visited him not in prison, who might have the scriptures to talk of, of Christ that was to come, as you have of Christ which is come, and would not have him reign, as you will not now; such were to go into punishment prepared for the devil and his angels. If such punishment came upon them that visited him not, when he was cast into prison, what will come upon you that do cast him into prison?

Last Edited by Dried Up Hag on 10/13/2012 10:30 AM

It is noteworthy that the above post by me was written a few HUNDRED years ago......

duly noted.

I know what you mean. My eyes are a mess from computer excesses. I plan to read Dried UP Hag's, for love of name and avatar, but haven't yet.
I know.: " Can't take it, but sure can dish it out!"

Ok then what of my earlier query of the billions who have died with no chance to hear the true gospel?

Is baptism required for everyone, or not?

As to last paragraph, I benefit from being motivated by others' interest in what the Bible calls "the deep things of God" to look into questions that I may have also. E.g., things that may appear to be inconsistencies, but will turn out not to have been. This deepens my faith in Gods word, and makes me want to persist in learning in it. Then I want to talk about it more, and when I do, hopefully ppl will be able to sense that I'm 'not just whistlin' Dixie', but really, I mean really believe.

I think the other 'debaters' toward the end of yesterday's thread have the same motive, and we end up being collaborative in each others' learning.

Romans 12 "Consequently I entreat YOU by the compassions of God, brothers, to present YOUR bodies a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God, a sacred service with YOUR power of reason. 2 And quit being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making YOUR mind over, that YOU may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God."

Who is the arbiter of truth?

Btw, the above was a cut and paste from Reasoning,WATCHTOWER.

Its patient, 'instructive' tone was not me
condescending to teach you- present company.

Krap! should say "condescending" above

Pretty sure I mentioned this somewhere, but God holds people responsible for what they could grasp or be expected to know. At the end of the day, we just have to trust God to be as merciful as possible yet as just as necessary. God will be fair yet holy. As Jesus said, "To whom much is given, from the same will much be required". So to those who didn't hear, he will require little; they will be responsible for what they could possibly know. But to those who hear, more is required.

Some may take that as saying it's better not to spread the gospel then, since hearing it means being responsible for it. Yet Jesus Himself commanded us to spread the gospel everywhere. And since salvation in this age means reconciliation, having a close relationship, we must do everything we can to tell this good news to as many people as possible, so they don't miss out on something priceless.

So in light of this topic of second chances, I still say no; this life is all we have in which to choose. But if anyone didn't hear the gospel, I trust God to be merciful to the pure-hearted yet harsh to those who violated what they knew to be right. The key difference between 2nd chances and mercy is that those who leave this earth in knowing rebellion against God will not be given a chance to change their minds in the next life.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 10/13/2012 01:48 PM

Is this from the NWT? I like the Philips version, which from memory uses the phrase: "Don't let the world squeeze you into its mold..."

Where I differ from the way you cited Rom 12:2 is that your version makes it sound like the transformation is something WE do, whereas the sense of the text from my studies is that the transformation is the work of the Holy Spirit.

The first part of v.2 ("conformed to the world") is an outside-in activity and could include society's norms, world systems, dogmatic teachers, and even church doctrine. The second part of v.2 ("be transformed") is an inside-out process which the examples I gave for the first part of the verse can never do.

(A side note: the Greek word used for "transformed" in Rom 12:2 is the same Greek word used for "transfigured" in Matt.17.)

I know. It's a sticking point for me too, and the quote below doesn't answer it completely, but moves in that direction, I think. And sorry for the length. I need to learn to link to PDF's, b/c this isn't online, i don't think.

Throughout Jesus’ ministry he was in danger; Satan used human agents to oppose Jesus, trying either to cause him to stumble or to kill him. At one time the people were about to seize Jesus to make him king. But he would not consider such a thing; he would accept kingship only in God’s time and way. (Joh 6:15) On another occasion those of his own hometown attempted to kill him. (Lu 4:22-30) He was constantly harassed by those whom Satan used to try to trap him. (Mt 22:15) But in all of Satan’s efforts, he failed to cause Jesus to sin in the slightest thought or deed. Satan was thoroughly proved to be a liar, and he failed in his challenge of God’s sovereignty and the integrity of God’s servants. As Jesus said, shortly before his death: “Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out”—completely discredited. (Joh 12:31) Satan had a grip on all mankind through sin. But, knowing that Satan would soon bring about his death, Jesus, after celebrating his last Passover with his disciples, could say: “The ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me.”—Joh 14:30.

A few hours later, Satan succeeded in having Jesus put to death, first getting control of one of Jesus’ apostles, then using the Jewish leaders and the Roman World Power to execute Jesus in a painful and ignominious manner. (Lu 22:3; Joh 13:26, 27; chaps 18, 19) Here Satan acted as “the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil.” (Heb 2:14; Lu 22:53) But in this Satan failed to promote his cause; he only unwillingly fulfilled prophecy, which required that Jesus die as a sacrifice. The death of Jesus in blamelessness provided the ransom price for humankind, and by his death (and subsequent resurrection by God) Jesus could now help sinful humankind to escape from the grip of Satan, for, as it is written, Jesus became blood and flesh “that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil; and that he might emancipate all those who for fear of death were subject to slavery all through their lives.”—Heb 2:14, 15.
Insight on the Scriptures,vol. 2

I think we agree. There is simply too much scriptural backing for the fact that Satan acquired jurisdiction of the world, making it his evil kingdom, and for this reason the world would have to be bought back. The deceiver was outwitted and outmatched by an act of mercy so extreme that the evil one could never have anticipated it.

So salvation is a choice of citizenship in the kingdom of God as opposed to the kingdom of Satan. Jesus paid for everyone's citizenship papers, but they have to be accepted willingly. And they are only given out in this life. I think the parable of the 10 virgins is an excellent illustration of the concept of "too late".

Jesus's own words:

I am the way the truth and the life.
No man may come to the Father but by me.

Accept it or reject it.

Rephrase the question to an earlier time when God's chosen people was Israel. Salvation was only found by joining them. They were chosen to carry God's message to the world. The same is true today about Christians. But Christians too need to be obedient or they are "cut-off" as Israel were. (Romans 11:18-23)

Jesus is God and as the ten commandments say we have no other gods. There is only one path. All others are deception.

1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Jesus was foretold in the OT prophet to comer and it did happen that we may know our Creator.

Okay, think it boils down to this:
[notes in blue, I added]

Hebrews 8:7 "but into the second [compartment] the high priest alone enters once a year,[Day of Atonement,or 'perfect covering', or covenant] not without blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins of ignorance of the people. 8 Thus the holy spirit makes it plain that the way into the holy place had not yet been made manifest while the first tent was standing. 9 This very [tent] is an illustration for the appointed time that is now here, and in keeping with it both gifts and sacrifices are offered. However, these are not able to make the [man] doing sacred service perfect as respects his conscience, 10 but have to do only with foods and drinks and various baptisms. They were legal requirements pertaining to the flesh and were imposed until the appointed time to set things straight.

11 However, when Christ came as a high priest of the good things that have come to pass, through the greater and more perfect tent not made with hands, that is, not of this creation, 12 he entered, no, not with the blood of goats and of young bulls, but with his own blood, once for all time into the holy place and obtained an everlasting deliverance [for us] [or ransom]. 13 For if the blood of goats and of bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who have been defiled sanctifies to the extent of cleanness of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works that we may render sacred service to [the] living God?"

KeeptotheCode, you seem fantastically smart and knowledgeable, and are a very good writer imho.
And I know I probably shouldn't, but I've enjoyed your irritability and at-least-partly justified righteous indignation. Hope never to be deprived of in future!

I just saw this after I posted above. So happy!

Well, thank you!!

I do get frustrated, that's true.

ADDED: Forgot to commend you on the list of verses you assembled here: [link to www.godlikeproductions.com] . Well done!

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 10/13/2012 03:18 PM

No, Thank YOU.
Yes, Of course you get frustrated.
And I agree about "wise and foolish virgins"

I'm being dragged away now, and it may be for the best. May need a cooling-off period!
love, A.nn C.aroline

You will never find any accurate representation of what is, at work here, when it comes to your true spiritual nature from any book coming through, and supported by mainstream methods...

I think everyone can agree - there are control devices in place, in just about everyone's life... Government, financial, medical, chemicals, military, police, etc...

What makes people think - that the concept of heaven, and or hell is not simply another control device???

The way out of this heavily controlled existence - is to know your spiritual nature... This is where your power lies...They know it, they want to control it, and have gone to great lengths in projecting thought forms to keep you at a certain level...

A level, you will have great difficulty in overcoming, by adhering to, or searching through the doctrine...

Well, you take care then, and God bless. I'll be doing the Sat. night movies and popcorn thing so hopefully it'll be a slow night on GLP.

Tell me something...

What is it about books that people have such issues with? Here we are communicating by TYPED WORDS, but somehow the words become inferior if they weren't typed yesterday?

Books are just one medium of communication among many. They are not valuable because they're printed but because of the source of the thoughts they convey. In the case of the Bible, the source is our Creator, and so it is right to value those words just as much as if they were being spoken to us today face-to-face.

People like to broad-brush all who value the Bible as somehow born yesterday: ignorant, inexperienced, afraid, stupid. They think we're easily controlled and completely oblivious to the ways of the world--- in spite of the fact that so many of us came from non-Christian environments or families. They presume we're one giant homogenized lump of humanity that just spawned from outer space or something.

I find such dismissal of the Book and those who read it elitist and narrow. They pronounce their "wisdom" as if it should be self-evident, as if only morons would disagree with them. They set themselves up as our teachers or guardians or mentors, and they expect us to accept this without question, without demanding some objective reasons to believe them. Yet they denounce us for doing the same to God and the Bible.

Explain all that, if you can.

Knowing the background of who, what groups, and the purpose they serve on this planet, is very distasteful to me...

That is because, I am all about regaining my power and leaving the scene... However, I do recognise that going through the religious process is a necessary part of growth on this planet, it cannot be avoided...

The saying goes - you have to be in it, experience it, before you can really know it... This is the nature of existence, and it takes many incarnations to gain the fullness of understanding to be able to move on...

I do not completely dismiss the books... But, my perspective is vastly different when I read them...But, only because of my nature, and input from other incarnations that are heavily involved...

"Background" is exactly what I meant by "source"; consider the source. Having spent decades studying the Bible and debating its authenticity and historical accuracy, I remain convinced that it is from God. You, on the other hand, I don't know at all, and am not aware of any credentials that should tell me to listen to you.

I care nothing for "religious practices" because they are not taught by Jesus or the NT writers. What they taught is spirit and truth, "love does no harm to its neighbor", and the "narrow way" to God through Jesus alone. This is a relationship, not a religious practice. I perform no rituals, obey no human priests, pay no fees or dues disguised as "charity" or "tithes". I was in that and experienced it for 47 years, and I left it because I know the Bible. Incarnations had nothing to do with it; they are imaginary. I find the concept of reincarnation laughable, but I don't go to all the threads and boards about it to put them down.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 10/13/2012 04:26 PM

Oh, I know very well what is going on... As far as credentials, no, nothing that can be verified by anything mainstream... That should be a clue to you...

You think reincarnation is laughable and imaginary???

Then you are simply, not in tune to the nature of existence in the galaxy, and the galaxy's purpose...Thanks in part, to your god's destruction of your original 12 strand dna structure...

Think hard on this - It is not possible to gain a fullness of understanding from one lifetime... Even if that lifetime was 10,000 years...