The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either

A clue? Yeah, I've got one: You think you're beyond me, enlightened, on a higher plane. You can't prove it though, and you don't care, but you still look down your nose at anyone who doesn't buy what you're selling.

So I'm "not in tune" just because I disagree with you? That's really arrogant of you. So also is it arrogant to think you will ever gain "a fullness of understanding". And as for my God, He is the creator but yours is the destroyer, the one who's been trying to monkey with our DNA since the beginning, the one who made the hybrids that ruled earth with viciousness and pure evil, whom God wiped off the planet for their deeds.

Well, if reincarnation is as the Buddha taught, then the probability of a human life next reincarnating as a human life is miniscule. I think he described it as a grain of sand compared to the whole beach.

Most budhists are minion incarnations - their animating life force is the planetary spirit... These incarnations will not reincarnate, it is not their purpose, and they only exist due to overbreeding...

A clue? Yeah, I've got one: You think you're beyond me, enlightened, on a higher plane. You can't prove it though, and you don't care, but you still look down your nose at anyone who doesn't buy what you're selling.

So I'm "not in tune" just because I disagree with you? That's really arrogant of you. So also is it arrogant to think you will ever gain "a fullness of understanding". And as for my God, He is the creator but yours is the destroyer, the one who's been trying to monkey with our DNA since the beginning, the one who made the hybrids that ruled earth with viciousness and pure evil, whom God wiped off the planet for their deeds.
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Your god, aka, the orion empire are genetic manipulators, not creators...

In reality, they are the destroyers... They, upon discovering this planet, undertook genetic manipulation in order to produce a slave compliant race...

They destroyed a genetically suitable uni-gender (the origin of your adam and eve story) being who was in harmony with the planet and it's spiritual nature...

The mess, we have today is primarily due to them... Yet, they try and sell you another story based on a satan, devil, demon, fallen angels causing the havoc...BS, it is them and their astral allies...

My God is "I AM", the self-existing one, the creator of everything that exists.

The mess we have is due to human beings rebelling against God and choosing instead to be under the domain of Satan.

I don't accept your story at all.

Complete nonsence!!!

However, it does solidify in my mind - how potent, the combination of genetic manipulation and a society paradigm is...

As far as you not accepting my story, does not change the fact of what is, and is very accurate...

Your opinion. Your very arrogant, condescending opinion, and one that you cannot prove is more true or better than mine.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 10/13/2012 05:39 PM

Not arrogant!!!

But, sometimes a little shock to your system is needed...

Lol... "a little shock to your system" is somehow not arrogant... but claiming it isn't does not change the truth, sorry.

Salt, I think you would be interested in studying Easter Orthodoxy.

Eastern

What you wrote is mostly in agreement with my understanding of scripture, although you didn't address the need for baptism.

According to

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved." (emphasis added)

So baptism is a required ordinance, even for those that have died and the specific exclusion of the unpardonable sin indicates that other sins may be forgiven (otherwise, why the distinction) in the world to come.

Baptism is a required ordinance signifying forgiveness of past transgressions and admittance into the kingdom of God.

John the Baptist baptized people with water.....but Christ baptizes believers with the Holy Spirit. (Mark 1: 8)

Found the below quoted article interesting, especially the poorly formed last line that I think tries to exclude dead people from this binding ordinance with no scriptural basis?

Be born of water - By "water," here, is evidently signified "baptism." Thus the word is used in Ephesians 5:26; Titus 3:5. Baptism was practiced by the Jews in receiving a Gentile as a proselyte. It was practiced by John among the Jews; and Jesus here says that it is an ordinance of his religion, and the sign and seal of the renewing influences of his Spirit. So he said Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." It is clear from these places, and from the example of the apostles Act 2:38, Acts 2:41; Acts 8:12-13, Acts 8:36, Acts 8:38; Acts 9:18; Acts 10:47-48; Acts 16:15, Acts 16:33; Acts 18:8; Acts 22:16; Galatians 3:27, that they considered this ordinance as binding on all who professed to love the Lord Jesus. And though it cannot be said that none who are not baptized can be saved, - [link to bible.cc]

Titus 3:5


"not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration OF THE HOLY SPIRIT."



There is water baptism.

There is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.



Christ: "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.(John 3: 5)


Jesus baptizes people with the Holy Spirit (Mark Chp 1)


A characteristic of a true child of God is that they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8: 5-17)

Mk 1:8, is not telling us baptism is not necessary. Only that the Holy Ghost is at work as well.

"Buried with him in baptism, wherein also you are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." Colossians 2:12

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. ... knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Romans 6:4-6

Yes people run out and find your baptism, I did!

bless you

reincarnation is fact

the brainwashed story of Christianity is fiction

Out of context. The "dead" Paul is referring to there is Jesus. Paul's whole argument there is that IF Jesus were not risen, then nobody is. Yet we are baptized in His name, so what good is that if He's still dead? You have to take the whole argument and not a piece out of context.


Again, context. I think someone already addressed this, but you apparently need to hear it from me.

Paul and John the Baptist (of all people) contrasted water baptism with fire (Spirit) baptism. Paul even said that he was happy he hadn't baptized many people, a strange statement for something you claim is necessary. And not once in any gospel explanation is water baptism mentioned. "By grace you are saved, through faith" means exactly what it says.

And there is no point in referring to LDS links; I will ignore them all.

For that matter, do we have a record of Jesus himself baptizing anyone?

Nope. In fact it says it was actually his disciples: John 4:1-2 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.

Thanks, that's the way I remembered it.

And then there's 1 Peter 3:21

"and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

Do you think it is too far fetched to use baptism (baptiso) in the Great Commission (Matt 28.19) as immersing them in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? That is, immersing them relationally as well as or in addition to the baptism rite? The idea of immersing them into a relationship with Father seems to be more consistent with the progression of discipling, baptizing (immersing), and teaching.

I do.

Are you contradicting Mark 16:16?

Please provide biblical references for your assertions.

I've pondered that at times, and don't think it's far-fetched at all. There's really a lot more going on in the GC than meets the eye, IMHO:

-- Spoken to the disciples, before the coming of the Holy Spirit
-- Given only after Jesus had "all authority"
-- It says "make disciples" rather than "evangelize"
-- Each Person is named separately; not "in the names of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit" but "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"
-- It includes "teaching them to obey"

Whoever Jesus meant to include in this (only "leaders"? everybody?), they were all to do everything: make disciples, baptize, teach. But why only because Jesus had all authority? It seems to me that this is a delegation of what he himself had been doing, and water immersion was not something he did. The authority is in the sender, not the sent, such that there is no need to have specially-trained or anointed people doing these things. Which all means that there is no clergy class with the exclusive power to do these immersions, or to teach, or to go everywhere making disciples.

The emphasis here on the Trinity is good to remember when reading Acts, where the Gentiles were first given the Holy Spirit. They didn't know who the HS was because they had only been immersed in the name of Jesus. This all could add up to a requirement to be immersed in all three Persons. Yet in other instances we see that the HS came upon them before any water immersion was done, such that those who claim this must be done in order to receive the HS are in error.

Very interesting passage.


For general notice... the Great Commisssion
Mat. 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

I'll add one more point to your very good list: that is, Jesus announced that the old authority of Temple, Torah, and National Identity now became resident in Him and Him alone.

No contradiction at all. Show me the word "water" in that verse. And explain all the other instances where any mention of water baptism is conspicuous by its absence.

Though I would have presumed someone like you who purports to know the scriptures would hardly need the references, here you are:
Matthew 3:11
Luke 3:16
John 1:33
1 Corinthians 1:14
1 Corinthians 1:17
1 Corinthians 15:1-8
Eph. 2:8-9

ADDED: The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20 in Mark 16.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 10/13/2012 09:42 PM

Yep! We also remember that the veil in the Temple was ripped in two, signifying that there was no longer any "holiest place" sealed off from ordinary people, and thus no more of the old priesthood and its inseparable Law.