The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either

But it is not eternal, that came from a mistranslation. It is only for an age.

that fire is in the presence of God.

To get into hell you have to belong to an 'army' that exists on earth on the days Jesus returns, that will get you into hell for the 1,000 years. Anybody in the grave before then does not go to hell, they spend the same time being asleep in a dreamless state, both are resurrected to life at the Great White Throne and even the ones in hell are clean and without sin at that point because being in hell was the full punishment God has determined, eternal means as long as hell exists.



Hello sis.
I want to ask you a couple of questions about what you are presenting.

First question:
Hell, people being in hell for a thousand years. Is that really true?

Can you explain Luke 16:20 to 26 ? That great gulf fixed, where is that?

Also can you explain 1 Peter 3:19 ?


I am not trying to set you up, but by knowing what I have learned, I think you are off a bit about what you have written above to us all.

Is there any books in the bible that talks all about the millennium ?

I know the answers to my questions, this is how I get into conversations with other Christians.
My object is not to change your mind in what and the way you believe, but to invite you and others to verify what you share.

In the book of Luke 16, how could the rich man talk with Lazarus and Abraham ? I am sure both Lazarus and Abraham is NOT in hell when the rich man speaks to them.

Is Lazarus and Abraham in heaven ?
Is the rich man in hell ?

This will be fun, if I do not upset your belief.
And since you are a newbie mod, don't banned me. lol

I say that because I know how many Christians get testy over how they see the Word. lol
blessings and much love in Christ sent to you.

Hebrew 12:29...
What does God look like?

The best things can't be told because they transcend thought.
The second best are misunderstood, because those are the thoughts that are supposed to refer to that which can't be thought about.
The third best are what we talk about.
-Joseph Campbell

Excellent stuff Salt.

Thanks for sharing.

don't know the exact time. the scriptures in their mechanical translation and Greek word studies show that it is for an aeon, or an age, which by definition doesn't have a set amount of time.

i think it takes as long as it takes.

some more or less than others.

however, some won't be purified.

and nobody dies the second death until judgment day, which happens after the thousand year reign.

the chasm?

this is exactly what my OP explains.

He rich man is in Hades, the place of purification, in the presence of the divine fire of God, which burns away all impurities.

one of my personal faves:

19 After being made alive,he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.


again, this clarifies the study i posted in the OP

Hey sis, I am still waiting to see what your other answers will be in your reply. I will set still waiting until you answer my questions completely.


My objective is to open minds and eyes, and is not to debate.

Peace and much brother and sister love in Christ.
Just wanted to let you know I am a guy. lol

Avatar name is from Job 38:7
blessings

Lazarus is not in Hades and walks in the heavenly realm with Abraham and the others that are already present there. This lends more credence to what is written in the study in my OP. Hades is not in an eternal place of suffering separated from God.

Lazarus and Abraham are in the heavenly realm. Is it the final resting place? the eternal place? i don't know. could be.

The rich man is being purified in Hades.

you can't upset my belief. if God brings me correction or instruction, i throw a party.

and i am not interested in banning anybody unless they break the rules.

give me a min. i am working and multi-tasking.

Remember when Christ told some ladies this "Don't hold me up I am about my Fathers business?"

1 Peter 3:19 is where Christ went. He pulled many over into paradise across the gulf as Luke 16:26 calls it because they were not under salvation at the time of Noah, but under the law. So salvation was given to many that had gone across the gulf which my new friend is in paradise.

I am sure you will disagree on that statement.

Spiritual prison is what 1 Peter 3:19 states, does it not?
So no one is burning yet, which I do see in your writings is correct.
Christ told the malefactor hanging next to him on his cross "This day ye shall be in paradise with me."

Many believe heaven is the same as paradise. But it is not.
Heaven is when the full God Head comes together at the end of the 1000 year rule of Christ.

I just wanted that clarified for newbies.

Blessings!

Last Edited by Little Star on 11/19/2012 02:59 PM

the only burning that takes place is in Hades, and is not eternal. this is a divine purification process.

the second death is the eternal one.
this is the separation from God.

anyone burning in Hades is being purified for an aeon, or however long it takes, until judgment day.

the set date of judgment day takes into consideration these factors. judgment day WILL NOT COME until every single human soul is either purified or destined to die the second death.

I am sorry, I can't find anywhere in my bible that tells me the rich man is being purified in Hades, can you show me that scripture?
I hope I have not miss lead anyone in the past....

By the way sis, I follow the "formula" of 2 Cor. 13:1 to verify the Word.
Many do not know that formula ( I dislike that word formula but it is the simplest way I can help others know that there are sister verse's that back up most verse's in the bible.)

Blessings and I will wait patiently and I truly appreciate this chat.
Again, good going on being a new mod!

I understand eon and age.

Like the Katabole! That happened at the end of the first earth age.

blessings

when you understand what/where Hades is, the scripture is clear.

the scripture that comes before, about dogs is interesting. remember the mother that said "even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the master's table" ?

that scripture is about the one's that come "after" to God.

Luke 16:20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Matthew 15

The Faith of the Canaanite Woman

21Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession.”

23Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

24He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

25The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs.”

27“Yes, Lord,” she said, “but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.”

28Then Jesus answered, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

i think "Eden" and "paradise" are essentially the same environment. However, I think that after judgment day, we will actually be in the presence of God.

this is my hunch. don't have scripture to back it up.

Thanks so much. I got that Hades is what it is. So Christ went to Hades that petrification location as 1 Peter 3 tells us? Right?
And the gulf separates that location as written in Luke 16. They can't come over to "paradise" and those in paradise cannot come over to "Hades".

Now the reason I asked all this is this.
I am saying something personal, you can take this any way you wish, believe it or not.

In 1993 I had a NDE and I crossed over. I was not even a Christian at that time. I saw both paradise and Hades as you call it. I call it the spiritual prison.

ON the side of paradise I saw those who were with Christ on earth, in other words believed on Christ. They had a light about 3 inches off of their bodies, yet across the gulf you could see them and they had no light around their bodies. (James 1:17)Father of lights.

But I did not see anyone across the gulf with fire or lights around their bodies. I did not see anyone being petrified like you are talking about.

What was told to me was they were in a holding place until the time of Christ was to come back to earth to rule.

And at that time, those across the gulf will be taught the truth. At the end of that thousand years time frame, Satan will be released one more time to test those across the gulf.

Where will they be at that time of teaching? Again, I know and can use the bible to tell us where they will be during that teachings.

I do not expect you to believe in what I just said, and that is okay. The Word will confirm everything I have shared so far.

blessings

So when Christ said to the malefactor hanging next to Christ, "This day you shall be with Me in paradise" it was Eden ?

Are you a Joseph Campbell follower in his teachings?

I have a E. Bullinger bible with the Massorah within it.

Yes, after judgment day we will be in Heaven with the full God head. And boy what a day that will be.

In my next postings I will tell you why I bought a Bullingers bible, if you don't mind listening to me.

blessings

purified, not petrified.

a NDE is not the same as dying.

as far as the men hanging on the cross with Jesus - depending on where you would put the comma (there is no punctuation in the original greek) would determine the meaning of that scripture:

I tell you on this day, you will be with me in paradise
I tell you, on this day you will be with me in paradise

which one is correct?

perhaps Jesus saw his great faith and repentence and there was no need for any further purification? don't know.

as far as where Jesus went after he died - i don't know for sure. maybe he actually experienced the second death?

Joseph Campbell is a false teacher/prophet

i wouldn't follow him anywhere

So here goes Sis "Salt".

All my early 20's and above I tried to find God and tried to learn about the saviour Jesus.

I kept going from church to church to church to church.

And each one of them had different beliefs as to what they thought the bible was talking about.

Many of them out right were rude to each other.

Some of them even tried to make me give up money and other things like my art work. The one church members came to my home and said I had done evil with my paintings which were nothing but landscape images and etc. (No nudes or nothing at all like that.)

Half way through that I told them to get out. On that day I walked away trying to find out the truth.

I gave up.
It was not until 1993 of Dec. 31 when I crossed over did I know the truth that God is for real and that paradise is real and that we are all Gods children. All!

Nine days after I was put back into my flesh body, I got baptized and have walked with the Lord every day since.
But as usual at the church I was powerplayed and all because I did not see the Word just like they did.
So I talked to God in prayer and asked God to open the Word up to me so I can help others to see that we are all the children of God from the beginning.

Well, one day I asked the pastor this question....
"When do we learn the Song of Moses". He said, we learn it in heaven. I said can you show me that verse in the bible that we learn it in heaven. Well that day I was ousted because I had asked the question that I did and the pastor said I sinned against him and the congregation.
Rev. 15:3 says we those who overcome sing that song. And I had learned that on my own without some man or church system.
So that is when I knew God had answered my prayer of learning the Word. It is a bit confusing to many and from that time my objective has been to help others see the depth of the Word.

Do you know what the song of Moses is in scripture?

Testing you now. I hope you don't mind this. It tells me on what level I can chat with ya. okay.

I don't want to offend anyone so that is why I am trying to be as gentle as I can.

Blessings to you

Thank is good to know!

What denomination are you, may I ask?

If you wish not to say, I will understand.

blessings

well, i don't subscribe to any denomination.
i know which ones i'm not. maybe that helps.

regarding church:

keep this in mind -

the church is the body of believers

the temple is a house of worship

two different things

Sorry about the word "purified." I am a bit nervous talking with you and I am dyslexic and do those kinds of things like mis-spelling words and writing the wrong words. lol
One of my shortcomings. I often wondered if Moses had that same issue.

What I am sharing is this about paradise. Christ did go to paradise and did go across the gulf and did bring many over to paradise.
And yes you are correct the man saw that Christ was the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and repented and believed. I can assure it it was not by accident that the malefactor was hanging there next to Christ. It was meant to be, just like the blind man sitting at the temple gate waiting and then being able to see for the first time in his life.
All of Christ's teachings have this same type of scenario where He uses people to help us the reader to see greater things in the Word.

On your question about what Christ said, well lets just say the message did get delivered and sounds like you are a English major or teacher asking me that question. I don't mind. Keeps me on my English grammar toes. lol But don't expect me to be that way with you, it is impossible for me to be that way.

So the message is true, the malefactor did go to paradise that day with Christ.

That is what I am trying to share with you that Christ did go across the gulf to pull many out of that spiritual prison. And He did pull a multitude across to paradise.

Thanks for this chat, I needed this sis.

I hope you don't mind me asking these questions.
If you have had enough, just tell me, okay ?

blessings

Then if you are not of any denomination, then we both have something in common. I do not belong to any church at all.

But I do go to churches to share what I have learned, if they want to listen.

I try and dig deep into the Word.

Like I have found acrostics, metaphors, figures of speech, Hebraisms, symbolics and etc. which the Word confirms all of them within itself. I think that is pretty cool.

I went to a church this summer and chatted with a pastor and he knew nothing about them. He gave me strict orders to keep my mouth shut at his church if I wished to attend.

I shared some things with him and he got lost , yet I used the Word to prove them, again using 1 Cor. 13:1 as my formula to prove what I was sharing with him.

What is a Hebraism I asked him.
Do you know sis ?

Because if you don't know about them, you will miss translate the verse's in the bible.

I can show you one if you don't know and then let the Lord lead you after that.
blessings

Last Edited by Little Star on 11/19/2012 04:05 PM

i attend a couple local churches here. i go regular. but, i am also able to separate myself from the creepy people who are still stuck in the big "lie" and operate from discernment.

but, after a long search i found a couple that bring a good word each week.

one of them is a black church, which i like very much.

Yep, I got ya and thanks!