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PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME

 
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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10/12/2012 02:21 PM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
dear neim,i could be a little mixed up with the verses but thats generally what jesus said
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14956348


Yes you are right he said suffer little children to come unto me. The message wasa very deep message that we must take on the nature of children in humility and come to him in the innoccence of a child.

Yes to children who kowing nothing of the creator and dies at a tender age they go to paradise, not heaven! which is the place called abarahms bosom.

EVEN ADULTS OF THE WORLD WHO LIVED ALL THEIR LIVES AND NEVER HEARD THE WORD , THEY TOO WILL BE EXCUSEABLE AND ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM TO COME
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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10/12/2012 05:50 PM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
hf
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
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10/12/2012 06:01 PM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
bsflag
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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10/12/2012 08:16 PM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
bsflag
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25074058


11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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10/12/2012 08:29 PM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
This has been on an going debate on glp with christians and now we end the debate about who goes to heaven. I have been showing scripture upon scripture showing that no person goes to heaven when you die.It has been shown that only until the resurrection will the elect and saints be made immortal as they meet the messiah in the air.

I did another thread before showing that only 144000 the twelve tribes of Israel at the coming of the lord in the end time are the only ones will be in heaven and always with messiah where ever he goes and to join the Lord's army.

Thread: THE TWO WITNESSES/ THE TWO OLIVE TREES/ AND THE 144000 PART # 2 & PART # 3 "COMPLETED!" THANK YOU


SO LET US LOOK AT THE FACTS AVBOUT MESSIAH AND WE SEE HE IS THE FIRST FRUIT MEANING THE FIRST ONE WHO DIED AND WENT TO HEAVEN ACCORDING TO YOUR BIBLE!

The book of Acts chp 1

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven


c mklyh


Corinthians chp 15

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming



NOW LET US LOOK AT "THEY THAT ARE CHRIST'S" IN THE CONTEXT OF WHY HE WAS SENT. THIS IS IN NO WAY TO TAKE AWAY FROM THE GENTILES WHO ARE GRAFTED IN AND HAVE JOINED THEMSELVES TO MESSIAH.THEY WILL HAVE THEIR REWARD


ihttg

Book of Acts chp 5

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.



The book of john chp 4

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews[Israelites].

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.



The Book of Matt chp 15
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel




NOTE:
LET US LOOK AGAIN NOW IN SCRIPTURE FOR THE GROUP THAT IS CALLED THE FIRSTFRUITS UNTO GOD AND MESSIAH.
We will identify that group who ascended to heaven on a cloud just like messiah did.



The Book of Revelation chapter 11 Verse 12
11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

THE NORTHERN KINGDOM AND THE SOUTHERN KINGDOM "ISARAEL AND JUDAH" THE TWO WITNESSES


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Reference:The Book of Revelation chapter 14
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb
.

*NOTICE THEY WENT INTO HEAVEN IN REVEALTION 11 AND IN REVELATION 14 WE SEE THEY FOLLOW THE LAMB WHEREEVER HE GOES*
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YOU DECIDE AND FIGURE IT OUT! TOGETHER I WILL INCLUDE THE WHOLE STUDY IN THE FOLLOWING LINK
Thread: WHAT REALLY HAPPENS WHEN MESSIAH COMES AGAIN? DON'T BE FOOLED "THE OBEDIENT TO HIS LAWS" WILL BE IN HIS ARMY-COMPLETED THANK YOU!
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


look stupid

After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

After this I saw a vast crowd, too great to count, from every nation and tribe and people and language, standing in front of the throne and before the Lamb. They were clothed in white robes and held palm branches in their hands.

After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

so according to this there was a great number that was to many to count, can you count to 144,000? most people can.

the 144,000 you speak of will be here in the end times to preach the gospel.

why would you believe out of every person ever born since the beginning of time which goes into the billions maybe trillions, that only 144,000 would make it.lol.

quit preaching your jew lies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25421215


revelation 7:9
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25421215



ISAIAH CHAPTER 6

9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
Mt 13:14 Luke 8:10 John 12:40 Acts 28:26

10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
Mt 13:15 Mark 4:12 Acts 28:27

1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2012 08:32 PM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
The only false teacher I see is the One that calls Jesus the messiah =/
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2012 08:36 PM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
Tankah/Torah(or "OT")= Word of the Almighty
New Testament = word of man

Deuteronomy 13
If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord
Ozicell

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10/12/2012 08:44 PM

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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
You can show all the scriptural references you want but they provide ZERO proof of anything!!!

Why??

Simply because it is a KNOWN fact that NT scripture is based almost entirely on hearsay!
That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon.
Ozicell

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10/12/2012 08:45 PM

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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
Another point that you may consider is that Heaven isn't a place - it's a state of being!
That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon.
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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10/12/2012 09:09 PM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
Another point that you may consider is that Heaven isn't a place - it's a state of being!
 Quoting: Ozicell


OK
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
ANHEDONIC

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10/13/2012 12:21 AM

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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
Really feel like you need to expand the scope of your awareness to include ideas and thoughts that can't necessarily be sourced in a religious text. You are limiting/confining yourself. There are personal truths out there that you may be overlooking in the process.

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2012 12:41 AM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
jehovahs witness bull.. your false god is Charles taz russel..

you will burn.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25427628


find something contrary to what the end time prophecy declares..it is right there before you in your bible
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


The 144,000 of Israel are sealed just prior to God's wrath.

God's wrath......7th Seal trumpet and bowl judgments.


The 144,000 of Israel will remain on earth during God's wrath......as they are mentionned during the 5th trumpet judgment.


"They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their forehead." (Rev. 9: 4)


The Gentile Christians however were caught up by the angels just prior to the 7th Seal......a large multitude which no one could number.....from all the nations......who could wear robes.....and have palm branches in their hands.



First fruits was also used by Paul and James when they were writing to the first group of believers

Romans 8: 23
Eph 1: 12
James 1: 18

Rev 7: 9


Those believers who die now......their spirit goes to be with the Lord. They will be given their immortal bodies later on.


Paul:

"For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

"But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell.

"For I am hard pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better."

Phil 1: 21-23
Anonymous Coward
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
bible quotes

bsflag

misrepresentations in bad faith.


take a dare, think for yourself.
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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10/13/2012 06:13 AM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
jehovahs witness bull.. your false god is Charles taz russel..

you will burn.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25427628


find something contrary to what the end time prophecy declares..it is right there before you in your bible
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


The 144,000 of Israel are sealed just prior to God's wrath.

God's wrath......7th Seal trumpet and bowl judgments.


The 144,000 of Israel will remain on earth during God's wrath......as they are mentionned during the 5th trumpet judgment.

"They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their forehead." (Rev. 9: 4)

The Gentile Christians however were caught up by the angels just prior to the 7th Seal......a large multitude which no one could number.....from all the nations......who could wear robes.....and have palm branches in their hands.

First fruits was also used by Paul and James when they were writing to the first group of believers

Romans 8: 23
Eph 1: 12
James 1: 18

Rev 7: 9


Those believers who die now......their spirit goes to be with the Lord. They will be given their immortal bodies later on.


Paul:

"For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

"But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell.

"For I am hard pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better."

Phil 1: 21-23
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24909996


You need to really study before putting out the information you just did, It is not biblical what you posted. Readtthis again.The angels are the ones he told do not hurt the earth

The 144000 are caught up to heaven to be with the messiah and willalways be with him where ever he goes.


The Book of Revelation chapter 11 Verse 12
11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

THE NORTHERN KINGDOM AND THE SOUTHERN KINGDOM "ISARAEL AND JUDAH" THE TWO WITNESSES


-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

Reference:The Book of Revelation chapter 14
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb
.

*NOTICE THEY WENT INTO HEAVEN IN REVEALTION 11 AND IN REVELATION 14 WE SEE THEY FOLLOW THE LAMB WHEREEVER HE GOES*

Messiah came to the lost tribes of Israel! His message was to them what?

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


REV CHP 21
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel


17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

THIS THE HOLY CITY WITH THE MANSIONS WHICH WILL EVENTUALLY COME DOWN TO EARTH AFTER THE 1000 YEAR REIGN ON EARTH.THE 144000 WILL SERVE WITH MESSIAH WHEREEVER HE GOES BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN THE FIRSTFRUITS UNTO HIM AND THE FATHER. THEY WILL FUNCTION ALSO IN THE MILLENIAL KINGDOM WITH MESSIAH.



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At the resurrection the mixed multitude will be caught up in the air "not in heaven" to become immortal and will most asuredly join the lords army to fight the wicked of the earth.



please look at the precepts in this link Thread: WHAT REALLY HAPPENS WHEN MESSIAH COMES AGAIN? DON'T BE FOOLED "THE OBEDIENT TO HIS LAWS" WILL BE IN HIS ARMY-COMPLETED THANK YOU!

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 10/13/2012 06:46 AM
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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10/13/2012 06:15 AM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
bible quotes

bsflag

misrepresentations in bad faith.


take a dare, think for yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6231580


SHOW SCRIPTURE AND VERSE THAT OPPOSES THE BOOK OF REVELATION ACCOUNTS AS i PRESENTED IT...
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
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10/13/2012 06:36 AM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
Tankah/Torah(or "OT")= Word of the Almighty
New Testament = word of man

Deuteronomy 13
If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25408273


The NT is about Almighty´s Word became flesh aka Jesus Christ.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2012 06:48 AM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
1ST CORINTHIANS CHAPTER 15


51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.



54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.[/color
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


nobody cares, because everyone who is going there will eventually get there

if you're going to dig for deep truth, please dig for something useful
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2012 07:31 AM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
This reminds me of the Catholic church which also
diminishes the power of the Blood of Christ.

All of our righteousness are as filthy rags,
says the Lord.

Are we to be unrighteous? God forbid, but all of the righteous deeds done by all of the righteous men
who ever have or ever will live, could NOT earn one
nanosecond in Heaven.

The ONLY way ANYONE gets into Heaven is if CHRIST'S
PERFECT RIGHTEOUSNESS is imputed to him, through FAITH.

The 144,000 are the jewish disciples ordained during
the Great Tribulation to preach the gospel.
Yes there will be a great jewish conversion then.

Jesus shed Blood was and is sufficient to save every
person who ever has or ever will come into this world.
Relatively few will accept His atonement however.

It isn't what WE do that gets us into Heaven,
it is WHAT HE DID ON CALVARY.
AmericanJedi

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10/13/2012 07:34 AM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
The only thing this is 'proof' of is that first cousins should never breed.
(GLP aka American Jedi)

Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth.
Kenny Powers

If you steal the dreams of others long enough, sooner or later you'll end up in a nightmare.
American Jedi

Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.
Albert Einstein

Satis Eloquentiae, Sapientiae Parum....

"The last of the old?"

"No, the first of the new."
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2012 08:01 AM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
The Jehovah witness believe that the anointed ( 144k ) are the ones that are with Jesus in heaven while everyone else is resurrected. And live on earth ... There are still a few alive very old , but all the 144k are accounted for
Anonymous Coward
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
This has been on an going debate on glp with christians and now we end the debate about who goes to heaven. I have been showing scripture upon scripture showing that no person goes to heaven when you die.It has been shown that only until the resurrection will the elect and saints be made immortal as they meet the messiah in the air.

I did another thread before showing that only 144000 the twelve tribes of Israel at the coming of the lord in the end time are the only ones will be in heaven and always with messiah where ever he goes and to join the Lord's army.

Thread: THE TWO WITNESSES/ THE TWO OLIVE TREES/ AND THE 144000 PART # 2 & PART # 3 "COMPLETED!" THANK YOU


SO LET US LOOK AT THE FACTS AVBOUT MESSIAH AND WE SEE HE IS THE FIRST FRUIT MEANING THE FIRST ONE WHO DIED AND WENT TO HEAVEN ACCORDING TO YOUR BIBLE!

The book of Acts chp 1

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven


:c mklyh:


Corinthians chp 15

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming



NOW LET US LOOK AT "THEY THAT ARE CHRIST'S" IN THE CONTEXT OF WHY HE WAS SENT. THIS IS IN NO WAY TO TAKE AWAY FROM THE GENTILES WHO ARE GRAFTED IN AND HAVE JOINED THEMSELVES TO MESSIAH.THEY WILL HAVE THEIR REWARD


:ihttg:

Book of Acts chp 5

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.



The book of john chp 4

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews[Israelites].

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.



The Book of Matt chp 15
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel




NOTE:
LET US LOOK AGAIN NOW IN SCRIPTURE FOR THE GROUP THAT IS CALLED THE FIRSTFRUITS UNTO GOD AND MESSIAH.
We will identify that group who ascended to heaven on a cloud just like messiah did.



The Book of Revelation chapter 11 Verse 12
11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

THE NORTHERN KINGDOM AND THE SOUTHERN KINGDOM "ISARAEL AND JUDAH" THE TWO WITNESSES


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Reference:The Book of Revelation chapter 14
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb
.

*NOTICE THEY WENT INTO HEAVEN IN REVEALTION 11 AND IN REVELATION 14 WE SEE THEY FOLLOW THE LAMB WHEREEVER HE GOES*
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YOU DECIDE AND FIGURE IT OUT! TOGETHER I WILL INCLUDE THE WHOLE STUDY IN THE FOLLOWING LINK
Thread: WHAT REALLY HAPPENS WHEN MESSIAH COMES AGAIN? DON'T BE FOOLED "THE OBEDIENT TO HIS LAWS" WILL BE IN HIS ARMY-COMPLETED THANK YOU!
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


look stupid

After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

After this I saw a vast crowd, too great to count, from every nation and tribe and people and language, standing in front of the throne and before the Lamb. They were clothed in white robes and held palm branches in their hands.

After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

so according to this there was a great number that was to many to count, can you count to 144,000? most people can.

the 144,000 you speak of will be here in the end times to preach the gospel.

why would you believe out of every person ever born since the beginning of time which goes into the billions maybe trillions, that only 144,000 would make it.lol.

quit preaching your jew lies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25421215


revelation 7:9
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25421215



ISAIAH CHAPTER 6

9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
Mt 13:14 Luke 8:10 John 12:40 Acts 28:26

10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
Mt 13:15 Mark 4:12 Acts 28:27

 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


dear neim are you so blind and hard hearted that you can not see the verses quoted above are written FOR YOU...ABOUT YOU...dont you get it.hes talking about you.as for abrahams bosom....Its a PARABLE, jesus spoke in parables but you,the hardened of heart cannot discern,you will be one who mourns as one who has lost an only son...the one you have denied ,jesus the christ....because of your hardheartedness and puffed up sense of knowledge ,you will be saved After the gentiles,which is in fact gods plan.can you not see you are a modern day pharasees and all your knowledge will come to nothing?
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
This reminds me of the Catholic church which also
diminishes the power of the Blood of Christ.

All of our righteousness are as filthy rags,
says the Lord.

Are we to be unrighteous? God forbid, but all of the righteous deeds done by all of the righteous men
who ever have or ever will live, could NOT earn one
nanosecond in Heaven.

The ONLY way ANYONE gets into Heaven is if CHRIST'S
PERFECT RIGHTEOUSNESS is imputed to him, through FAITH.

The 144,000 are the jewish disciples ordained during
the Great Tribulation to preach the gospel.
Yes there will be a great jewish conversion then.

Jesus shed Blood was and is sufficient to save every
person who ever has or ever will come into this world.
Relatively few will accept His atonement however.

It isn't what WE do that gets us into Heaven,
it is WHAT HE DID ON CALVARY.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25480617


It isn't what WE do that gets us into Heaven,
it is WHAT HE DID ON CALVARY.

This is the dumbest expression I have ever seen and heard

You think the messiah died on the tree and this gives you a free pass with out any resposibility to walk into the kingdom smoking your cigarettes and eatinf apple pie.

Sorry lazy chritians you are accountable to work out your salvation.MESSIAH MADE PROVISION THAT YOU MIGHT BE SAVED

Further more he did not die for you directly "acts chapter 5". you as a gentile was grafted in the the origianl tree "Romans chp 11"

AND LASTLY NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN EXCEPT THE 144000 WHO WILL BE WITH HIM WHEREVER HE GOES

All other believers will inherithte earth in the millenial kingdom..So go ask your sunday school teacher about that

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 10/13/2012 08:23 AM
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
you know niem,you talk alot of sense and honestly it isnt my intention to discredit what you believe.i can only give my opinion and this is it,NEITHER CHRISTIAN OR JEW HAVE IT TOTALLY RIGHT.both have half of the truth,jews believe we must keep the law whilst denying jesus is the messiah,whilst christians believe we are saved by grace alone and do believe jesus is messiah.BOTH HAVE ONLY HALF THE TRUTH!!!we must believe in the keeping of the commandments(as it is pleasing to the lord) and believe that jesus christ is the son of god and infact the only messiah. You are totally right that we should try our very best to keep the law,but keeping the law alone cant save anyone as its impossible to be 100percent perfect,that is why we need messiah,to atone for our short comings and make us acceptable before god.am i making any sense brother,two halfs of one truth.
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
you know niem,you talk alot of sense and honestly it isnt my intention to discredit what you believe.i can only give my opinion and this is it,NEITHER CHRISTIAN OR JEW HAVE IT TOTALLY RIGHT.both have half of the truth,jews believe we must keep the law whilst denying jesus is the messiah,whilst christians believe we are saved by grace alone and do believe jesus is messiah.BOTH HAVE ONLY HALF THE TRUTH!!!we must believe in the keeping of the commandments(as it is pleasing to the lord) and believe that jesus christ is the son of god and infact the only messiah. You are totally right that we should try our very best to keep the law,but keeping the law alone cant save anyone as its impossible to be 100percent perfect,that is why we need messiah,to atone for our short comings and make us acceptable before god.am i making any sense brother,two halfs of one truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10051412


been through this and we know this but if one is conformed to the teaching of messiah in obedience then there should be no opposition to uphold the law .The holy spirit is given to those who obey.

Hence the reason messiah died

acts chapter 5
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.


WHEN A MAN OR WOMAN LOVES THE lORD AND WALK UPRIGHTLY THE LAW IS WRITTEN IN HIS HEART AND HE WILL LONG TO PLEASE HIS CREATOR BY WALKING UPRIGHTLY.MESSIAH DID NOT COME FOR YOU TO TELL HIM HOW WE SHOULD LIVE HIS LAWS..HIS PURPOSE WAS TO RESTORE HIS PEOPLE AS YOU SEE ABOVE


THE PEOPLE WHO ARE OPPOSED TO THIS ARE THOSE WHO ARE NOT IN ONE WITH THE MESSIAH AND THE WORDS HE BROUGHT.

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 10/13/2012 08:45 AM
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
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10/13/2012 09:07 AM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
Stop taking something written thousands of years ago and understanding it your way (with previous stuff determined by society) and claiming that it's truth.

144.000 does not mean 144.000 persons exactly.


Please, don't do what has been done for centuries.
 Quoting: 1908247


CENTURIES OF LIES AND DECEPTION BY YOUR PAGAN INSTITUTIONS WHO REWROTE AND TWISTED THE HOLY ORACLES
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


My pagan institutions?

Anyways, calm down, I feel like you are yelling at me.
And.. your thread shows a clear misunderstanding.
 Quoting: 1908247


Yes and I tell you this.The ignorance we see today is a generation and generations of lies passed down to people since 321ad. The books have been tampered with and people today in the christian world are discouraged and not taught to read the old testament.

If you do not undertand the history of Gods chosen people and the prophecies as messiah clearly rebuked the pharasees for. Then you will never beable to make the association when in fully undertanding the new testament.

YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THE HISTORY AND THE FACTS.

THE MEN WHO PRESENTED THE NEW TESTAMENT STUDIED FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT..


MESSIAH READ AND TACHED FROM THE TORAH AND THE PROPHETS.


The point I am making here is that there is a gap of missing information and the churches continue to indoctrinate and propell misinformation into this new christian movement with the lies and misrepresentations of scriptures and it is for one purpose.


IF YOU GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE PRECEPTS THAT I LAYED OUT FROM THE BIBLE ..

GET YOUR BIBLE READ THE THREAD FROM THE TOP TO BOTTOM...READ IT LINE BY LINE NOT LIKE I MADE IT UP! YOU WILL SEE BUT IF YOU JUST GLIMPSE AT IT LIKE IT WAS SOMETHING I GAVE MY OPINION ON THEN YOU MISS THE TRUTH.
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


Okay, so JESUS is a "false messiah", who is not valid. You do not follow him.

HOWEVER, you are attempting to quote and teach from the book of Revelation(and various New Testament authors) to show that in fact, only the Jews will go to heaven to rule over the world with God.

Do you see the logical disconnect between claiming that Jesus is not valid, and then using the writings of those who followed him and were inspired by him to illustrate your apparent point that only the 144,000 of the Tribe of Israel will be saved? If Jesus wasn't the true Messiah, then his followers writing's are not valid sources of teaching. This is quite easy to understand.


Now, moving on to another logical problem in your interpretation itself---

The great multitude before the throne of God have to be on Earth, not Heaven, because they are praising "day and night", and since God would light up Heaven, there could be no night for them praise in.

Your problem is that you think this "day and night" is interpreted literally, or that God will literally light up heaven so that there is no night. I'm not sure which, if any, is true, but logically we can see an issue---

It's clear from the scripture that God is sitting on that Throne they are worshiping, in addition to the Lamb(Jesus) being there. Since God is sitting on the Throne, he would light up the world too, such that there is no night, by your reasoning. Given that, the phrase "day and night" is meant to be interpreted more as "they are worshiping him constantly, without end".
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
we are both destined to be redeemed by god.we should stand together in friendship and simply agree to disagree upon the method and timing.we are both(jew and gentile)his daughters and in his time,according to his plan our salvation will be revealed.jewish hearts are blinded to jesus whilst christian hearts are blinded to the law.the lord has veiled both our hearts until the time is revealed when we are redeemed.christians who disregard the law are about to be left behind during the trib to learn the hard way.theres a verse many use to defend their not needind to keep the law and its the one about not putting old wine in new wineskins and vice versa.this verse in fact imho states that the new wine and old wine will be kept seperatly until the lords plan will bring us together as gods people during the millenial reign. His plan is playing out perfectly for jew and gentile alike.would you not agree?
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
we are both destined to be redeemed by god.we should stand together in friendship and simply agree to disagree upon the method and timing.we are both(jew and gentile)his daughters and in his time,according to his plan our salvation will be revealed.jewish hearts are blinded to jesus whilst christian hearts are blinded to the law.the lord has veiled both our hearts until the time is revealed when we are redeemed.christians who disregard the law are about to be left behind during the trib to learn the hard way.theres a verse many use to defend their not needind to keep the law and its the one about not putting old wine in new wineskins and vice versa.this verse in fact imho states that the new wine and old wine will be kept seperatly until the lords plan will bring us together as gods people during the millenial reign. His plan is playing out perfectly for jew and gentile alike.would you not agree?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10051412


I am not for you or against you..but I uphold the truth and that offends many.Every war started because there are thse of you who argue with the word, I only present it as is.

"I am not jewish" jewish means you are not really it like child-ish..
I am hebrew the "jewish gentile people" are the ones who picked up our teachings and polluted it they are the same paharasees zionists today who don't believe in messiah of the new testament.

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 10/13/2012 09:27 AM
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
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10/13/2012 09:29 AM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
we are both destined to be redeemed by god.we should stand together in friendship and simply agree to disagree upon the method and timing.we are both(jew and gentile)his daughters and in his time,according to his plan our salvation will be revealed.jewish hearts are blinded to jesus whilst christian hearts are blinded to the law.the lord has veiled both our hearts until the time is revealed when we are redeemed.christians who disregard the law are about to be left behind during the trib to learn the hard way.theres a verse many use to defend their not needind to keep the law and its the one about not putting old wine in new wineskins and vice versa.this verse in fact imho states that the new wine and old wine will be kept seperatly until the lords plan will bring us together as gods people during the millenial reign. His plan is playing out perfectly for jew and gentile alike.would you not agree?
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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10/13/2012 10:09 AM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
we are both destined to be redeemed by god.we should stand together in friendship and simply agree to disagree upon the method and timing.we are both(jew and gentile)his daughters and in his time,according to his plan our salvation will be revealed.jewish hearts are blinded to jesus whilst christian hearts are blinded to the law.the lord has veiled both our hearts until the time is revealed when we are redeemed.christians who disregard the law are about to be left behind during the trib to learn the hard way.theres a verse many use to defend their not needind to keep the law and its the one about not putting old wine in new wineskins and vice versa.this verse in fact imho states that the new wine and old wine will be kept seperatly until the lords plan will bring us together as gods people during the millenial reign. His plan is playing out perfectly for jew and gentile alike.would you not agree?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10051412


My mother, brother, sister and friends are those who obey the father and and the son.We will be in one accord. do not be unevenly yoked and also jeremiah warned us walk not in the ways of the gentiles.
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
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10/13/2012 10:28 AM
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Re: PROOF THAT NOBODY GOES TO HEAVEN AS YOU DIE,THE ONLY FIRST FRUITS IN HEAVEN ARE THE 144000 AT THE END TIME
Dude you're a Jewish quit talking about Jesus.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25075805


Thats typically the attitude of chosen, an obsessive effort to apply an array of rules and contractual restriction and entitlements that collectively exclude all but a chosen elect based on some manner of tribal heredity and not strictly intent, in an effort to suggest that a strictly tribal god serves only a tribe and ignores and cares not for any others of his creation.
The problem with this concept of an exclusive tribal god is that it suggests that other tribal gods are creatable and that there is yet a potential chief god of all the tribal god.
YOU have to ask yourself what is the exact nature of a 'god', whether it is human in attitude and intent, with the personality of a mafia don or something else with a more universal set of priorities and goals.
How many thing a god should are for all of his creation, on this planet and throughout the universe?
Just remember the god of the old testament is a strictly tribal god that doesnt have anything positive for non tribe members. This is in contradistinction to the new testament god which offers all the same potential based not on tribe but on intent.
It's up to you to understand the fundamental differences, and up to you to determine why they exist.

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