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please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug

 
Serendipity
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10/12/2012 10:01 AM
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please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug up people from every time period in history but still NO biblical characters.

Not trying to be disrespectful, but blind faith is good for no-one.

Let us debate and show evidence. I am ready. Are you?

Christians! It's time to witness....
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2012 10:04 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
You search for proof.

I'm searching for God. He's available...
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2012 10:05 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
Ha ha, you hit the nail on the head. Nice one! However, you're wasting your time here saying that cos the spittle mouthed frothing rabid believers will shower you with FAITH as proof.

You might as well fart into a hurricane, you'll get motre of a result.
Serendipity (OP)
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10/12/2012 10:06 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
You search for proof.

I'm searching for God. He's available...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1183343


Jesu said to stick your fingers in the holes if you doubt, but you cannot come up with any physical evidence?????

How strange.
Serendipity (OP)
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10/12/2012 10:08 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
Ha ha, you hit the nail on the head. Nice one! However, you're wasting your time here saying that cos the spittle mouthed frothing rabid believers will shower you with FAITH as proof.

You might as well fart into a hurricane, you'll get motre of a result.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24431486


You would think, with so many of them, there would be at least one who could debate with some sense....or at least with some conviction.
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2012 10:09 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug up people from every time period in history but still NO biblical characters.

Not trying to be disrespectful, but blind faith is good for no-one.

Let us debate and show evidence. I am ready. Are you?

Christians! It's time to witness....
 Quoting: Serendipity 24942595


Do you believe that Julius Caesar lived?


We haven't found his body...
Serendipity (OP)
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10/12/2012 10:11 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug up people from every time period in history but still NO biblical characters.

Not trying to be disrespectful, but blind faith is good for no-one.

Let us debate and show evidence. I am ready. Are you?

Christians! It's time to witness....
 Quoting: Serendipity 24942595


Do you believe that Julius Caesar lived?


We haven't found his body...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16151153


No, but I'm pretty sure that we have correspondence that he actually wrote.

I have yet to see any letters or books written by Jesus. You could enlighten me.
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2012 10:11 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
As you've likely heard before, "proof" of God defeats the purpose of faith, which is central to the belief system.

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

But, same link from hijacked thread about abortion:

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

In response to guy who highlights 1988 carbon dating to 13th/14th century, read the whole article and don't just look at the parts that question the shroud's authenticity.
Serendipity (OP)
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10/12/2012 10:21 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
As you've likely heard before, "proof" of God defeats the purpose of faith, which is central to the belief system.

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

But, same link from hijacked thread about abortion:

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

In response to guy who highlights 1988 carbon dating to 13th/14th century, read the whole article and don't just look at the parts that question the shroud's authenticity.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24741268


Where does it state that faith must be blind? A faith that is tested surely is stronger?

I still don't see how the shroud is proof of anything except they still don't know. Could it have been done with a camera obscura, by the master da Vinci? Probably.
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2012 10:26 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug up people from every time period in history but still NO biblical characters.

Not trying to be disrespectful, but blind faith is good for no-one.

Let us debate and show evidence. I am ready. Are you?

Christians! It's time to witness....
 Quoting: Serendipity 24942595


Do you believe that Julius Caesar lived?


We haven't found his body...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16151153


There are MANY, MANY, independent sources that support his existence.

Not so for those in the original question.
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2012 10:27 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
I do remember that they found a coin with one of the maji that came to see the Christ child on it.
Serendipity (OP)
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10/12/2012 10:30 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
WTH?

Even the devil has an advocate.
Face Palmer
Rated "P" for pathetic.

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10/12/2012 10:32 AM

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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
You people spewing here do know such thing exists like google?

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Now STFU

Last Edited by Face Palmer on 10/12/2012 10:33 AM
"The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title."

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Unit 1
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10/12/2012 10:34 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
How about dna of Mohammed, Confucius, etc.....
Serendipity (OP)
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10/12/2012 10:42 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
You people spewing here do know such thing exists like google?

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Now STFU
 Quoting: Face Palmer


Nearly all of those references include the words "they think is about Jesus." they think....or "is universally acknowledged."

There is an actual document in a temple somewhere, written by Mohammad that includes his hand print.
Serendipity (OP)
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10/12/2012 10:44 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
You people spewing here do know such thing exists like google?

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Now STFU
 Quoting: Face Palmer


Nearly all of those references include the words "they think is about Jesus." they think....or "is universally acknowledged."

There is an actual document in a temple somewhere, written by Mohammad that includes his hand print.
 Quoting: Serendipity 24942595


[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2012 10:44 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
Where does it state that faith must be blind? A faith that is tested surely is stronger?

I still don't see how the shroud is proof of anything except they still don't know. Could it have been done with a camera obscura, by the master da Vinci? Probably.
 Quoting: Serendipity 24942595


A faith that is "tested" is indeed stronger. A faith that is scientifically proven is not faith at all.

And I agree that the shroud is not direct proof of anything but it is certainly a remarkable artifact. Some of the key points that make me think it is authentic:

"The details of the image on the shroud are not easily distinguishable by the naked eye, and were first observed after the advent of photography."
This I think is one of the strongest arguments. You're telling me a medieval artist somehow encoded, via a method not understood by modern society, intricate, hidden details into a picture that no technology would be able to reveal for 500 years?

According to textile expert Mechthild Flury-Lemberg of Hamburg, a seam in the cloth corresponds to a fabric found at the fortress of Masada near the Dead Sea, which dated to the 1st century. The weaving pattern, 3:1 twill, is consistent with first-century Syrian design, according to the appraisal of Gilbert Raes of the Ghent Institute of Textile Technology in Belgium. Flury-Lemberg stated, "The linen cloth of the Shroud of Turin does not display any weaving or sewing techniques which would speak against its origin as a high-quality product of the textile workers of the first century."[77]
Joseph Kohlbeck from the Hercules Aerospace Company in Utah and Richard Levi-Setti of the Enrico Fermi Institute examined some dirt particles from the Shroud surface. The dirt was found to be travertine aragonite limestone.[81] Using a high-resolution microprobe, Levi-Setti and Kolbeck compared the spectra of samples taken from the Shroud with samples of limestone from ancient Jerusalem tombs. The chemical signatures of the Shroud samples and the tomb limestone were found identical except for minute fragments of cellulose linen fiber that could not be separated from the Shroud samples.[82]


In 1997 Avinoam Danin, a botanist at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, reported that he had identified the type of Chrysanthemum coronarium, Cistus creticus and Zygophyllum whose pressed image on the shroud was first noticed by Alan Whanger in 1985 on the photographs of the shroud taken in 1931. He reported that the outlines of the flowering plants would point to March or April and the environs of Jerusalem.[90][91] In a separate report in 1978 Danin and Uri Baruch reported on the pollen grains on the cloth samples, stating that they were appropriate to the spring in Israel.[92] Max Frei, a Swiss police criminologist who initially obtained pollen from the shroud during the STURP investigation stated that of the 58 different types of pollens found, 45 were from the Jerusalem area, while 6 were from the eastern Middle East, with one pollen species growing exclusively in Constantinople, and two found in Edessa, Turkey.[93] Mark Antonacci argues that the pollen evidence and flower images are inherently interwoven and strengthen each other.[94]

In 1976 Pete Schumacher, John Jackson and Eric Jumper analysed a photograph of the shroud image using a VP8 Image Analyzer, which was developed for NASA to create 3D images of the moon.[109][110][111] They found that, unlike any photograph they had analyzed, the shroud image has the property of decoding into a 3-dimensional image, when the darker parts of the image are interpreted to be those features of the man that were closest to the shroud and the lighter areas of the image those features that were farthest. The researchers could not replicate the effect when they attempted to transfer similar images using techniques of block print, engravings, a hot statue, and bas-relief.[112]

NASA researchers Jackson, Jumper, and Stephenson report detecting the impressions of coins placed on both eyes after a digital study in 1978.[113] The two-lepton coin on the right eyelid was presumably coined under Pilate in 29-30,[114] while the one-lepton coin on the left eyebrow was minted in 29.[115] The authenticity of the alleged coins has come under dispute.[116]


If indeed a hoax, the attention to detail is astounding. Bringing in the correct dirt and pollen contamination? The impression of period-accurate coins on the eyelids, again invisible until the advancement of digital imaging 600+ years later?
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2012 10:47 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug up people from every time period in history but still NO biblical characters.

Not trying to be disrespectful, but blind faith is good for no-one.

Let us debate and show evidence. I am ready. Are you?

Christians! It's time to witness....
 Quoting: Serendipity 24942595


Do you believe that Julius Caesar lived?


We haven't found his body...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16151153


But we do have coins with his name and image on them so STFU
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2012 10:50 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
You people spewing here do know such thing exists like google?

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Now STFU
 Quoting: Face Palmer


Nearly all of those references include the words "they think is about Jesus." they think....or "is universally acknowledged."

There is an actual document in a temple somewhere, written by Mohammad that includes his hand print.
 Quoting: Serendipity 24942595


[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Serendipity (OP)
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10/12/2012 10:50 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
If indeed a hoax, the attention to detail is astounding. Bringing in the correct dirt and pollen contamination? The impression of period-accurate coins on the eyelids, again invisible until the advancement of digital imaging 600+ years later?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24741268


Da Vinci's patrons were the most powerful and wealthy men and organizations on the planet. He gave them whatever they paid him for, whether the blue-prints for a machine gun or flying machine or a religious icon.

The weapons he developed were also 600 years before their time.
Mickeyblue
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10/12/2012 10:51 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
Dear poster
When the Smithsonian Institute needs confirmation wherein they have little evidence they acutally prefer biblical origination over a lot of other stuff.

You would if you opened your heart find an amazing journey of validation archeology and hisorical evidence if you would just look. It is there for the observant.
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2012 10:52 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
"If indeed a hoax, the attention to detail is astounding. Bringing in the correct dirt and pollen contamination? The impression of period-accurate coins on the eyelids, again invisible until the advancement of digital imaging 600+ years later?'

Oh whoopie shit, so the shroud is really from 1st century. Now prove it is then image of Jesus, rather some random Mofo who was buried in it. Sheesh, is there no end the the denial?
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2012 10:58 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
"If indeed a hoax, the attention to detail is astounding. Bringing in the correct dirt and pollen contamination? The impression of period-accurate coins on the eyelids, again invisible until the advancement of digital imaging 600+ years later?'

Oh whoopie shit, so the shroud is really from 1st century. Now prove it is then image of Jesus, rather some random Mofo who was buried in it. Sheesh, is there no end the the denial?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24431486


I believe the image in the shroud was created at the moment of Christ's resurrection. Now let's hear your hypothesis of how the image was created.
The Guy
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10/12/2012 11:05 AM

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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
You people spewing here do know such thing exists like google?

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Now STFU
 Quoting: Face Palmer


Nearly all of those references include the words "they think is about Jesus." they think....or "is universally acknowledged."

There is an actual document in a temple somewhere, written by Mohammad that includes his hand print.
 Quoting: Serendipity 24942595


[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Serendipity 24942595


That's allegedly a copy. The original doesn't exist anymore.
It's good to be open-minded, just don't let your brain fall out.
Serendipity (OP)
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10/12/2012 11:06 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
Dear poster
When the Smithsonian Institute needs confirmation wherein they have little evidence they acutally prefer biblical origination over a lot of other stuff.

You would if you opened your heart find an amazing journey of validation archeology and hisorical evidence if you would just look. It is there for the observant.
 Quoting: Mickeyblue 9806228


Ah, see....you assume that I know nothing. There was never I bigger Jesus freak than me 13 years ago. So I started researching the historical jesus....and the history of the church.....and here I am.

In truth, there is more evidence for the Greek Gods than for anything in the bible.
Serendipity (OP)
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10/12/2012 11:08 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
That's allegedly a copy. The original doesn't exist anymore.
 Quoting: The Guy


Very true.

But there is far more historical evidence for the existence of this document than for jesus christ.
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2012 11:11 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
"If indeed a hoax, the attention to detail is astounding. Bringing in the correct dirt and pollen contamination? The impression of period-accurate coins on the eyelids, again invisible until the advancement of digital imaging 600+ years later?'

Oh whoopie shit, so the shroud is really from 1st century. Now prove it is then image of Jesus, rather some random Mofo who was buried in it. Sheesh, is there no end the the denial?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24431486


I believe the image in the shroud was created at the moment of Christ's resurrection. Now let's hear your hypothesis of how the image was created.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24741268


You 'believe'. That's the crux of your argument and you totally missed my point. I agree the shroud could be a contemporary relic, but prove the image and corpse was that of Jesus.

Other than you believe or have faith, you offer no evidence only hearsay. SHOW me a forensic trail right beack to the actual body.
The Guy
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10/12/2012 11:14 AM

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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
That's allegedly a copy. The original doesn't exist anymore.
 Quoting: The Guy


Very true.

But there is far more historical evidence for the existence of this document than for jesus christ.
 Quoting: Serendipity 24942595


So you admit that direct physical evidence isn't necessary for people to respect the ideals something or someone represents.
It's good to be open-minded, just don't let your brain fall out.
Serendipity (OP)
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10/12/2012 11:22 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
That's allegedly a copy. The original doesn't exist anymore.
 Quoting: The Guy


Very true.

But there is far more historical evidence for the existence of this document than for jesus christ.
 Quoting: Serendipity 24942595


So you admit that direct physical evidence isn't necessary for people to respect the ideals something or someone represents.
 Quoting: The Guy


No-one doubts that the document existed, non of the references have "are believed to be"....they state that the document really was real, they show who had it when, how the copy(s) were made, etc. etc. and how the original was destroyed....the chain of authenticity is never broken or doubted.
Serendipity (OP)
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10/12/2012 11:24 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
That's allegedly a copy. The original doesn't exist anymore.
 Quoting: The Guy


Very true.

But there is far more historical evidence for the existence of this document than for jesus christ.
 Quoting: Serendipity 24942595


So you admit that direct physical evidence isn't necessary for people to respect the ideals something or someone represents.
 Quoting: The Guy


Respect is earned....or it ends up being that which is cast before swine.
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2012 11:25 AM
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Re: please show me DNA and archaeological evidence of: Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, John the Baptist, Jesus....ANYONE....by this point we have dug
You people spewing here do know such thing exists like google?

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Now STFU
 Quoting: Face Palmer


Nearly all of those references include the words "they think is about Jesus." they think....or "is universally acknowledged."

There is an actual document in a temple somewhere, written by Mohammad that includes his hand print.
 Quoting: Serendipity 24942595


[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Serendipity 24942595


That's allegedly a copy. The original doesn't exist anymore.
 Quoting: The Guy


Not what I heard.

[link to www.dailymail.co.uk]

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