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A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy

 
Lisa*Lisa

User ID: 1106916
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10/19/2012 07:11 PM

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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
Sorry OP, but I didn't read any of it after that because if that's how the post starts off, then the rest of it is also incorrect.

I didn't read the 3 pages of comments, so I don't know what was discussed afterwards, but I'm 100% confident on the bible not supporting a pre-trib rapture.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Aw come on, Lisa... I believe one thing you don't and I'm a complete failure? Anyway, I'm 100% sure that you're wrong. Fair enough?
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I"m not trying to hurt your feeling OP, not at all. Please forgive me if I have done that.

I"m just pointing out that your presentation is incorrect from the start, so how could the rest be accurate?

I'd LOVE to believe in a pre-trib rapture, but the Bible tells otherwise. Please read matthew chapter 24 that I posted above then tell me how you believe differently?

hf
Have You Accepted Jesus As Your Savior Yet? What Are You Waiting For?

____________________________


"Tell them, I love them" - Jesus Christ

"If love were a tree, compassion would be its fruit." - unknown
____________________________

A dear friend's website [link to www.savemenowjesus.com]

_____________________________

Do you have questions about God or need a friend to talk to? Email me at LisaLovesJesus7@gmail.com
___________________________

2 Corinthians 12:9 - "Each time he said, "My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness." So now I am glad to boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ can work through me."

_________________________

One of the greatest things you can do for God is to show love to His other kids.
Lisa*Lisa

User ID: 1106916
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10/19/2012 07:12 PM

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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
I don't need links, I just need the bible.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Cop out! The links are BASED on what the Bible says. And if that's not good enough for you, then I'm going to ignore EVERYTHING YOU SAY BECAUSE IT ISN'T THE BIBLE.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I posted matthew chapter 24. Please read it, then tell me if you still believe in pre-trib rapture. Let's stick with Jesus's words only, not any other articles or links.
Have You Accepted Jesus As Your Savior Yet? What Are You Waiting For?

____________________________


"Tell them, I love them" - Jesus Christ

"If love were a tree, compassion would be its fruit." - unknown
____________________________

A dear friend's website [link to www.savemenowjesus.com]

_____________________________

Do you have questions about God or need a friend to talk to? Email me at LisaLovesJesus7@gmail.com
___________________________

2 Corinthians 12:9 - "Each time he said, "My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness." So now I am glad to boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ can work through me."

_________________________

One of the greatest things you can do for God is to show love to His other kids.
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
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10/19/2012 07:14 PM
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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
Sorry OP, but I didn't read any of it after that because if that's how the post starts off, then the rest of it is also incorrect.

I didn't read the 3 pages of comments, so I don't know what was discussed afterwards, but I'm 100% confident on the bible not supporting a pre-trib rapture.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Aw come on, Lisa... I believe one thing you don't and I'm a complete failure? Anyway, I'm 100% sure that you're wrong. Fair enough?
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I"m not trying to hurt your feeling OP, not at all. Please forgive me if I have done that.

I"m just pointing out that your presentation is incorrect from the start, so how could the rest be accurate?

I'd LOVE to believe in a pre-trib rapture, but the Bible tells otherwise. Please read matthew chapter 24 that I posted above then tell me how you believe differently?

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa

This "feeling" is anger, not pain. It really ticks me off when people think they have everything sewed up so tight that not even God could disagree with them. It is fine to BELIEVE you have it right, but I BELIEVE you are wrong. And I will use your own standards against you; at the first sign of disagreement I'm always going to just cut you off and ignore you. See?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
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10/19/2012 07:15 PM
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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
I don't need links, I just need the bible.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Cop out! The links are BASED on what the Bible says. And if that's not good enough for you, then I'm going to ignore EVERYTHING YOU SAY BECAUSE IT ISN'T THE BIBLE.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I posted matthew chapter 24. Please read it, then tell me if you still believe in pre-trib rapture. Let's stick with Jesus's words only, not any other articles or links.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Do you really think I've never read Mt. 24?

Really?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Lisa*Lisa

User ID: 1106916
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10/19/2012 07:15 PM

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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
Sorry OP, but I didn't read any of it after that because if that's how the post starts off, then the rest of it is also incorrect.

I didn't read the 3 pages of comments, so I don't know what was discussed afterwards, but I'm 100% confident on the bible not supporting a pre-trib rapture.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Aw come on, Lisa... I believe one thing you don't and I'm a complete failure? Anyway, I'm 100% sure that you're wrong. Fair enough?
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I"m not trying to hurt your feeling OP, not at all. Please forgive me if I have done that.

I"m just pointing out that your presentation is incorrect from the start, so how could the rest be accurate?

I'd LOVE to believe in a pre-trib rapture, but the Bible tells otherwise. Please read matthew chapter 24 that I posted above then tell me how you believe differently?

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa

This "feeling" is anger, not pain. It really ticks me off when people think they have everything sewed up so tight that not even God could disagree with them. It is fine to BELIEVE you have it right, but I BELIEVE you are wrong. And I will use your own standards against you; at the first sign of disagreement I'm always going to just cut you off and ignore you. See?
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


You can be angry if you want, that's a sign of the flesh that we need to struggle against. This isn't about you or me, or what we "believe", but rather what Jesus Himself said.

I'm just asking you to read matthew chapter 24 and let's discuss it, ok?

hf
Have You Accepted Jesus As Your Savior Yet? What Are You Waiting For?

____________________________


"Tell them, I love them" - Jesus Christ

"If love were a tree, compassion would be its fruit." - unknown
____________________________

A dear friend's website [link to www.savemenowjesus.com]

_____________________________

Do you have questions about God or need a friend to talk to? Email me at LisaLovesJesus7@gmail.com
___________________________

2 Corinthians 12:9 - "Each time he said, "My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness." So now I am glad to boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ can work through me."

_________________________

One of the greatest things you can do for God is to show love to His other kids.
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
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10/19/2012 07:19 PM
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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
You can be angry if you want, that's a sign of the flesh that we need to struggle against. This isn't about you or me, or what we "believe", but rather what Jesus Himself said.

I'm just asking you to read matthew chapter 24 and let's discuss it, ok?

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Oh please... now I'm fleshly and spiritually immature because I take exception to your claim of infallibility.

Discuss it? That's not the Bible so I would only ignore everything you say. It's no different than A LINK to an article that "discusses it". And some of those links are to my own words, my own studies.

And you still act like I never read Mt. 24.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 10/19/2012 07:19 PM
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Lisa*Lisa

User ID: 1106916
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10/19/2012 07:19 PM

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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
Oh please... now I'm fleshly and spiritually immature because I take exception to your claim of infallibility.

Discuss it? That's not the Bible so I would only ignore everything you say. It's no different than A LINK to an article that "discusses it". And some of those links are to my own words, my own studies.

And you still act like I never read Mt. 24.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Ok then, have a nice day sister. God bless.
Have You Accepted Jesus As Your Savior Yet? What Are You Waiting For?

____________________________


"Tell them, I love them" - Jesus Christ

"If love were a tree, compassion would be its fruit." - unknown
____________________________

A dear friend's website [link to www.savemenowjesus.com]

_____________________________

Do you have questions about God or need a friend to talk to? Email me at LisaLovesJesus7@gmail.com
___________________________

2 Corinthians 12:9 - "Each time he said, "My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness." So now I am glad to boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ can work through me."

_________________________

One of the greatest things you can do for God is to show love to His other kids.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14105059
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10/19/2012 07:26 PM
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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
I know this, but many people lose faith, gain it back, lose faith, gain it back, they go in and out, for years, and back and forth from one set of beliefs to the next, from one church to another, etc. Almost very similar to people and AA programs/groups. For them, they like to say they aren't cured, no matter how long they've been sober.

So, I'm confused how can it be a singular event when some people keep having to do it all over again, some for years ?

Are you of the belief that just because somebody loses faith in god that they are no longer saved, even though they did the whole " I accept Jesus, according to the process described by group " x " ?
 Quoting: !saac


Compare this to any human relationship. What kind of relationship is it when people keep "breaking up" and "making up" all the time? When we see people doing that, we wonder what they saw in each other in the first place.

With salvation I have the same question: how can people have understood the gospel or knew the God they were supposed to be accepting and then keep doing this spiritual bungee-jumping? This sounds exactly what the Bible calls "being tossed back and forth by every wind of doctrine", like a ship without an anchor. Some people actually seem to like it this way, as a sort of martyr complex where they get sympathy for their struggles.

You're probably familiar with the "eternal security" debate at some level, from what you said here; correct me if I'm wrong about that. But again, whether people are continually lost/saved/lost/saved or backslidden/restored/backslidden/restored is irrelevant; what matters is this back and forth pattern, which as I said indicates a faulty grasp of reconciliation and relationship.

This is what I think you alluded to with "I accept Jesus...". So many have been told that salvation means having some big emotional blowout about your sins, walking an aisle in a church, and telling a preacher that you want to be saved (often these emotional scenes are the result of what I described in my previous comment). And the preacher says "invite Jesus into your heart" or something like that, which means nothing and isn't in scripture. They focus on feelings of remorse and then outward good behavior, which of course must include forking over a "tithe" to the church.

So while I do hold to "eternal security", my question for such people is always about the relationship and what they were told when they "got saved".
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Indeed, if you can't definitively say what your relationship to something is, then how do you even know what it is that you think you have a relationship with ?

I'm not really familiar with the typical arguments/stances on a lot of these topics, they've not been part of my life until this year, so excuse my ignorance about what the bible says, etc, I've not read it, yet.

I do hear a lot of that, " Accept him into your heart ", etc, but in a group discussion about what that's even supposed to mean, it's another topic were each answer is different, sometimes drastically.

My own reconciliations with god when i was getting ready to die, preparing myself, were probably very different from what people would have told me to do, had I asked. There was no bible or church attendance for me, so it leaves me wondering what it was i did, and why it happened.
Keep2theCode (OP)

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10/19/2012 07:32 PM
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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
Indeed, if you can't definitively say what your relationship to something is, then how do you even know what it is that you think you have a relationship with ?

I'm not really familiar with the typical arguments/stances on a lot of these topics, they've not been part of my life until this year, so excuse my ignorance about what the bible says, etc, I've not read it, yet.

I do hear a lot of that, " Accept him into your heart ", etc, but in a group discussion about what that's even supposed to mean, it's another topic were each answer is different, sometimes drastically.

My own reconciliations with god when i was getting ready to die, preparing myself, were probably very different from what people would have told me to do, had I asked. There was no bible or church attendance for me, so it leaves me wondering what it was i did, and why it happened.
 Quoting: !saac


This is where I point to the written Bible as valuable and necessary, since it takes us back to the source when we get confused. Had nothing been written down (as some people think it should be), it would truly be impossible to know anything about God for sure.

So tell me, what is your understanding of God and how did you reconcile with him?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2012 08:06 PM
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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
Indeed, if you can't definitively say what your relationship to something is, then how do you even know what it is that you think you have a relationship with ?

I'm not really familiar with the typical arguments/stances on a lot of these topics, they've not been part of my life until this year, so excuse my ignorance about what the bible says, etc, I've not read it, yet.

I do hear a lot of that, " Accept him into your heart ", etc, but in a group discussion about what that's even supposed to mean, it's another topic were each answer is different, sometimes drastically.

My own reconciliations with god when i was getting ready to die, preparing myself, were probably very different from what people would have told me to do, had I asked. There was no bible or church attendance for me, so it leaves me wondering what it was i did, and why it happened.
 Quoting: !saac


This is where I point to the written Bible as valuable and necessary, since it takes us back to the source when we get confused. Had nothing been written down (as some people think it should be), it would truly be impossible to know anything about God for sure.

So tell me, what is your understanding of God and how did you reconcile with him?
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I tend to keep my view of god simplistic, god just is, and god just does what god does, likely outside of my understanding, I just accept it on faith that god exists, but is far outside human definition.

I also think the universe is far stranger then we know, or can know, and so is god, ultimately. Maybe god doesn't even know where god came from.

I would rather live life with an attitude of feeling grateful for the experience of living, as opposed to not.

As far as my reconciliations, they were just me talking with god, in the privacy of my own home, there was no praying on my knees. There is no constant every day prayer for me, aside from my prayers for others done in the privacy of my own house.

I think I have a very casual relationship that I take very seriously, if that makes any sense, but to some people I say this to, they tell me what I'm doing is wrong, how I'm doing it is wrong, etc.

It's more of a sentiment then anything, but it's how you really feel on the inside inside that determines the strength of the relationship with god, right ?

It's not about how loud you pray in front of other people, or how much scripture you can recite, it's something that's seen in how you live as an example to others, and whether or not you choose to live life striving to be a positive example, and be as kind, compassionate, and tolerant to people as you can, all the while striving to improve yourself as well, as opposed to being the biggest ego, loudest mouth, etc.

Personally, I think the people who pray the loudest are the ones jesus would avoid hanging out with in a casual setting.

.....but that's just me

So, who knows ? I like to believe I did something right, if I hadn't, I think I'd be dead by now.tounge
Keep2theCode (OP)

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10/19/2012 08:21 PM
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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
I tend to keep my view of god simplistic, god just is, and god just does what god does, likely outside of my understanding, I just accept it on faith that god exists, but is far outside human definition.

I also think the universe is far stranger then we know, or can know, and so is god, ultimately. Maybe god doesn't even know where god came from.

I would rather live life with an attitude of feeling grateful for the experience of living, as opposed to not.

As far as my reconciliations, they were just me talking with god, in the privacy of my own home, there was no praying on my knees. There is no constant every day prayer for me, aside from my prayers for others done in the privacy of my own house.

I think I have a very casual relationship that I take very seriously, if that makes any sense, but to some people I say this to, they tell me what I'm doing is wrong, how I'm doing it is wrong, etc.

It's more of a sentiment then anything, but it's how you really feel on the inside inside that determines the strength of the relationship with god, right ?

It's not about how loud you pray in front of other people, or how much scripture you can recite, it's something that's seen in how you live as an example to others, and whether or not you choose to live life striving to be a positive example, and be as kind, compassionate, and tolerant to people as you can, all the while striving to improve yourself as well, as opposed to being the biggest ego, loudest mouth, etc.

Personally, I think the people who pray the loudest are the ones jesus would avoid hanging out with in a casual setting.

.....but that's just me

So, who knows ? I like to believe I did something right, if I hadn't, I think I'd be dead by now.tounge
 Quoting: !saac


I think that your view of God is fine, and your "serious/casual" relationship is fine. Any good, close relationship could be described that way; you would give up your life for someone yet are relaxed around them. Also agree completely about prayer. To me, prayer is not as much about the words as it is about the meanings, and we're praying to God, not to impress other people.

I wrote something I called "Three Laws Saved" that you might be interested in. It's linked at the bottom of [link to www.fether.net] , which is my all-in-one basics of Christianity blog post. Here it is:

If you’re familiar with the science fiction movie I, Robot or with writer Isaac Asimov, you know about the Three Laws of Robotics. In the movie there is a slogan about the newest line of human-like robots being “Three Laws Safe”, meaning humans could completely trust them.

But I think Christianity could use a “three laws” kind of thing, as an alternative to the pedantic complexity that confuses some people, makes others conceited, and is largely ignored by most. The “deep things of God” (1 Cor. 2:10) are a vast treasure trove of knowledge, but not everyone is interested in going there. They just want to live.

So I came up with this as a first draft and would be interested in any feedback:

Law One
A Christian must believe that Jesus, the embodiment of the one and only God, died to reconcile mankind to God and rose physically from the dead.

Law Two
A Christian must live to please God above all: by avoiding anything God has called ‘sin’, by adopting an attitude of humility and service toward others, their property, and the natural world, and by taking reasonable care of all of those as s/he is able.

Law Three
A Christian is free to act and believe as s/he chooses, provided such actions and beliefs do not conflict with, add to, or subtract from the First or Second Law.

Basically, the first law means you can’t add Jesus to an existing religion or subtract belief in His death and resurrection. The second means no “lording over” or poor stewardship. The third means no micromanagement.
 Quoting: fether.net

Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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10/20/2012 11:11 AM
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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
I believe the two end-time witnesses of Revelation will be who the jews know as Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David.

The purpose of these two individuals is to first messiah ben Joseph gathers the lost 10 tribes and then messiah ben David re-unites both houses of Isreal once again

Messiah ben Joseph is the suffering servant and a forerunner to and Messiah ben David (the conquering king.)
Many christians claim Jesus is both Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David(first He came as Messiah ben Joseph(suffering servant) then He will return as Messiah ben David(conquering king.) Jesus wasn't from the tribe of Ephraim, which is what "ben Joseph" means and was a tribe in Northern Israel(Lost 10 tribes). Jesus was from the tribe of Judah. Jesus is the atonement for sin but the Messiah ben Joseph being talked about is one that gathers the lost 10 tribes and brings them to Jerusalem and is a warrior and is killed at the east gate in jerusalem by armilus(this never happened to Jesus)

Most people can only associate the word "messiah" with Jesus but "messiah" simply means "annointed one" A messiah is a savior or liberator of a people in the Jewish, Christian, Islamic or other religions.

In the Hebrew Bible a messiah (or mashiach) is a king or High Priest traditionally anointed with holy anointing oil and we know from Zechariah 4:14

the two witnesses of Revelation are the two "annointed ones" spoken of here in Zechariah

11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and no man comes to the father but by him John 14:6(there is no salvation but by Jesus Christ, only by believing by faith that Jesus died on the cross for the atonement for you sins are you saved)

This Chapter In Ezekiel shows Messiah ben David and Messiah ben Joseph(Joseph gathers and David unites the two sticks or houses of Israel back to one house)

Ezekeil 37 paraphrased:
1 God takes "son of man" to valley of dry bones

2.God tells "son of man" these dry bones are Israel

3.God tells "son of man to take "two sticks" one for Judah and one for Joseph and combine the two sticks which represent two houses of Israel that separated during the time of solomon.

4.God will gather the children of Israel from among the heathen and bring them into their own land

5.God will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations,neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all(This has to be an endtime event because the Northern kingdom, lost 10 tribes hasn't came back yet.)

6.And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes,
and do them.

7.And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.(How long is forever?)

Paraphrase of what messiah ben Joseph does: Regathers the lost 10 tribes and rebuilds the temple and is killed at the east gate by armilus

Paraphrase of what messiah ben David does: resurrects messiah ben joseph(they are the two witnesses of revelation), Re-unites the two houses Of Israel (Northern kingdom with the southern kingdom), and becomes the prince as mentioned in Ezekiel 37:7 This man will feed the people during the spiritual famine that will be in the land: Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD...just as Joseph provided physical food for the famine in Egypt this man will provide spiritual food during this spiritual famine and because he can interpret the plan he will be awarded with being 2nd in command under Jesus.

What is the purpose of Mashiach? The Mashiachis an individual who is responsible for, and who, either overtly, or covertly, spearheads a collective process of tikkun. Tikkunis perhaps the single most important concept in all of Judaism The word tikkunmeans ‘rectification’ or ‘mending.’ In the Kabbalah, tikkunalso refers to a process of ‘elevation’ and ‘transformation.’ Whereas thesecond definition implies taking something that is already complete into a more refined state, the first definition implies that something has broken, or become torn, and the immediate goal is only to return it to its original state of completion.These are the processes, or modes, of tikkun.The one who performs that act of restoration is said to be its redeemer (goel ),which is another quality and name for messiah Therefore, the Messiah is simply the one who is responsible for the restoration—the tikkun—and the redemption of creation.”

Origin and Sources of the messiah ben Joseph Tradition

Scholars and theologians have been unsuccessful in determining the origin of the Messiah ben joseph tradition. Without knowing where or from whom the tradition originated, one can only make a vain attempt to explain the ambiguities relating to the tradition. Coming to a full understanding of the MBJ tradition is difficult considering the fact that every rabbi and scholar have expressed different ideas or theories surrounding it. I have included a brief summary of the earliest known sources of the MBJ tradition which may be helpful. The Messiah ben joseph traditions are found in at least four sources: (1) The Talmud, which is a collection of rabbinical discussions pertaining to Jewish law, custom, and history. The discussions of the rabbis were kept orally for several centuries and were eventually recorded around AD 200.[3] (2) The Targumim, which are Aramaic translations of the Hebrew Bible compiled in Babylon or Israel during the Second Temple Period (537–20 BC). (3) Kabbalistic writings, which contain Jewish mystical traditions regarding the creation of the earth and other ideas concerning God and spirituality. (4) The apocryphal and pseudepigraphical writings, which are religious and extrabiblical texts resembling books of scripture. These texts were not included with the other canonical books and date from around 300 BC to AD 100.

According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, Armilus is "a king who will arise at the end of time against the Messiah ben joseph, and will be conquered by him after having brought much distress upon Israel", similar to Gog. He is spoken of in both Midrash Vayosha and Sefer Zerubbabel, in which he defeats the Messiah ben Joseph. The Messiah ben David comes and raises messiah ben joseph from the dead and the ministry of the two witnesses(messiah ben joseph, messiah ben david) shortly begins
 Quoting: waterman


I haven't checked to make absolutely sure, but this isn't in The hebrew scriptures, the torah, the "law and the prophets", the "old testament" is it? this ben joseph, ben david stuff? I'm writing this really quickly, b/c it was one of several things I wanted to write yesterday, result being, I didn't write any of them. Tired of all this swirling in my head, making me feel guilty for not telling.

How about this?: Meticulously kept temple genealogies were destroyed in 70 CE. No one can ever again prove they have the correct lineage to be the Messiah, that is, descended from David on his mother's side [yes his actual mother] and for good measure on his adoptive father Joseph's side ,too. He thus had the natural descent, and the legal descent through Joseph.
I guess this is why all the frenzied genome research is conducted, to have dna evidence replace those records. And I've read it's been discovered that the Cohen name supposedly indicates descent from Aaron, and also read" Levitical descent is not so pure,b/c their wives weren't so virtuous"!["And he shall pu-u-rify, and he shall purify-y-y-y-y-y-y-y-y-y-y-y-{total of 33 y's} the SONS of Levi",Georg Friedrich Handel, Messiah]. But it sounds maybe doubtful that this research will satisfy everyone's questions? [putting it mildly]

What you say above about spiritual famine, and the correspondence w/Joseph being in a position to feed his brothers [and ,later,father], who'd sold him into slavery, out of their jealousy of him,once they'd humbled themselves and, in an manner of speaking, admitted to themselves they were
starving enough to go to Egypt, and [skipping forward a little] recognized their brother, and were 1st afraid of him and then truly repentant. As with Pharaoh ,regarding Joseph, i believe there has been someone appointed over the master's possessions on earth to give them their proper spiritual food at the proper time. They are assembled together, so that this is possible, but also still assembling a "vast mixed company", like the one that
eventually came back out of Egypt, with Moses.

I realize this needs severe editing for clarity and that one big bulky construction above is not even a sentence, yet goes on and on assembling a predicate without ever graduating to a full sentence. I'm posting this anyway out of fear it'll disappear. I've seen some very strange behavior in this 'reply' function before, but never as much as will this post. At one point it wasn't letting me scroll, but dancing crazily all over the place. It was in 'character' with stuff that's happened before, but in degree, off the charts.
Anonymous Coward
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"I realize this needs severe editing for clarity and that one big bulky construction above is not even a sentence, yet goes on and on assembling a predicate without ever graduating to a full sentence. I'm posting this anyway out of fear it'll disappear. I've seen some very strange behavior in this 'reply' function before, but never as much as will this post. At one point it wasn't letting me scroll, but dancing crazily all over the place. It was in 'character' with stuff that's happened before, but in degree, off the charts."

Subject I mean, not predicate!
Anonymous Coward
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"I realize this needs severe editing for clarity and that one big bulky construction above is not even a sentence, yet goes on and on assembling a predicate without ever graduating to a full sentence. I'm posting this anyway out of fear it'll disappear. I've seen some very strange behavior in this 'reply' function before, but never as much as will this post. At one point it wasn't letting me scroll, but dancing crazily all over the place. It was in 'character' with stuff that's happened before, but in degree, off the charts."

Subject I mean, not predicate!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10858311


And another thing I meant to put with above ^ is that the law covenant-Mosaic law's main purpose was to keep descent of "seed" promised to Abraham, to come through him ,through which" all the nations would bless themselves", and narrowed down --went through Rahab,Ruth and Boaz, for instance, through David,again-- to keep descent-PURE and beyond dispute. Once the Messiah ,Jesus Christ, appeared, the Law covenant which had served as a "fence" keeping them [somewhat? or completely?]in their tribes ,and in their bounds of behavior, and separate from everybody else in the world,again:LAW was no longer needed. People had been able to join up all along , but they had to scrupulously keep the law too. All so no one concerned could dispute the Messiah's lineage.

I just realized that the word, separate, must have as roots, se-"self" and parate-"birthed". "inbred", in a GOOD way.

I'm posting this and will come back with some scriptures, such as Jesus' genealogy, which no one on GLP ever acts like they've ever noticed , that I've ever noticed them noticing anyway.
Keep2theCode (OP)

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10/20/2012 01:34 PM
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And another thing I meant to put with above ^ is that the law covenant-Mosaic law's main purpose was to keep descent of "seed" promised to Abraham, to come through him ,through which" all the nations would bless themselves", and narrowed down --went through Rahab,Ruth and Boaz, for instance, through David,again-- to keep descent-PURE and beyond dispute. Once the Messiah ,Jesus Christ, appeared, the Law covenant which had served as a "fence" keeping them [somewhat? or completely?]in their tribes ,and in their bounds of behavior, and separate from everybody else in the world,again:LAW was no longer needed. People had been able to join up all along , but they had to scrupulously keep the law too. All so no one concerned could dispute the Messiah's lineage.

I just realized that the word, separate, must have as roots, se-"self" and parate-"birthed". "inbred", in a GOOD way.

I'm posting this and will come back with some scriptures, such as Jesus' genealogy, which no one on GLP ever acts like they've ever noticed , that I've ever noticed them noticing anyway.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10858311


This is what so many fail to grasp about the whole choosing of Abram and then the law which came 400 years after the promise. It also shows itself whenever someone uses the term "Abrahamic religions", since they ignore the line through Isaac and Jacob as the line of promise. And that promise, as you know, is the Seed of the Woman, the Messiah, Jesus. Having come, he fulfilled (made no longer in effect) the law for the Jews, but they "cut him off" and were scattered.

So since then, God has turned to the Gentiles and will not turn back to finish the Jewish prophecies until "the full number of Gentiles has come in", at which point the "age of grace" is over. This is yet another support for my belief in the pre-trib Rapture; the final judgments are not for the Bride but for unbelieving Israel and the rebellious world. We are not to suffer the wrath of God with them, since we are in Christ and thus are no longer under condemnation.

I haven't addressed all this other stuff about the two witnesses because I think it ignores too much scripture, and because it's really not pertinent to the topic here about a sequence rather than chasing every rabbit trail, as I said in my OP.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 10/20/2012 01:34 PM
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waterman

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10/20/2012 01:34 PM

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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
Here is part of a post I did on what the story of who Joseph represents. People can't see the true end time meaning because they mirror every story to Jesus and Jesus is in the volume of the book, but there is also the first begotten of Jesus who will get a double portion and he will be over the entire household. Here is part of a very good book I read on the subject of Joseph that you haven't seen before:

I read a very good book on prophecy that I think many would enjoy it's called "Enigmatic Sunrise Todays Prophetic Secrets Revealed" and it talks about the last day moshiach. Here is one example: The story of Joseph..as christian people are taught that Joseph represents Jesus because the coat of many colors was dipped in goat's blood..the colors represent the many nations and the blood sacrificial of
what Jesus did on calvary. The Pharoah symbolic of GOD the Father and position of greatest authority on earth. Lets consider another idea involving 3 entities. Jesus
represents pharoah, as pharoah was the ruler of the greatest authority on earth at the time.He was also the provider of the bread and nourishment for the life of men. Joseph correctly interpreted the 7 year famine of food, saving the people from physical starvation. This is a foreshadow of the 7 year tribulation when this Joseph(moshiach) will rise up and save the people from spiritual starvation. When Joseph appeared before Pharoah, Joseph told pharoah that God made these things known to him. If Pharoah was symbolic of God, as has been taught by people today then Joseph would have responded "you pharoah, God have given me the interpretation of the dream!" So the first entity is GOD, as Joseph mentions GOD gave him the interpretation. The second entity is Pharoah, symbolic of the ruler of the kingdom and the source of life during the last seven years of the interpreted spiritual famine. A
type of bread of life or another name for Jesus, and he was the head of the kingdom. The third entity was Joseph himself, a servant to pharoah and, King of the kingdom. Pharoah appointed Joseph secondary head of the kingdom. Joseph became leader and commander through his witness, for he correctly interpreted the dream, and by his witness saved many from death. Not by his sacrifice as was the case Jesus bearing the cross, but by his, Josephs' witness was many saved!
Considering the blood of a goat on the coat of many colors. Jesus is not symbolic of the goat of God but he is the Lamb of GOD! why not the blood of a lamb if it was to symbolize Jesus or a ram at least a ram is a male sheep. A goat is a ruminant mammal related to the sheep, this is symbolic of the gentiles! Again we are dealing with a goat even depicted in the story of Jacob, covering his hands, works in goatskin! Did God direct Josephs' brothers to the goat and not to a lamb by mistake? Was God confused and couldn't find a sheep at the time, or perhaps he forgot the difference between a sheep and a goat! I think not!
Even as Joseph's brothers chose the blood of a goat and rejected the blood of a lamb. Even so would come the time when Joseph's brothers the jewish people, would for a second time reject the blood of the Lamb Of GOD! The blood is not the significant thing here it is what the blood symbolizes this is significant!The Word of God states the life of man is in the blood (Gen.9:4-6)....this is just a small portion
of this book..I would recommend it to everyone...it shows this last day moshiach very clearly
Heed the warning or endure the mourning
Anonymous Coward
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[link to wol.jw.org]
Genealogy of Jesus Christ
Keep2theCode (OP)

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[link to wol.jw.org]
Genealogy of Jesus Christ
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10858311


I'd prefer a non-JW link, if you have one. Of course, it's plainly listed in the gospels anyway, so no need for other sources.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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10/20/2012 01:45 PM
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Christianity and Islam are only God's tools to help the chosen people become the masters of this planet and defeat evil once and for all. You have fallen victim to an epic con. When the misery of your existence is revealed to you by the one who you thought loved you unconditionally you will weep and you will suffer as your soul is harvested for its energy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4443279

I'm sure you're convinced you're right, but I disagree of course. Time will reveal the truth. And I don't even need to condemn or threaten you in return.

I read everything up to "I believe in the pre-tribulation rapture" and stopped. No real to need for me to absorb more of what nearly all Christians falsly believe. Reread Mathew 24 especially verses 24 thru 31.
 Quoting: Chip


I've read the whole Bible many times, also parts in other languages (German and koine Greek). So I can assure you that I do not "falsly" believe anything. Feel free to read the huge amount of material at the Thomas Ice link I gave in the OP for well-argued defenses of the pre-trib Rapture.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Yes, you do falsely believe a lie. Further, thr Lord warns us about your deception and not to believe it in this passage:

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
Keep2theCode (OP)

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10/20/2012 01:52 PM
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Yes, you do falsely believe a lie. Further, thr Lord warns us about your deception and not to believe it in this passage:

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13584098


No, I don't, as the very passage you cited proves. Read the whole chapter, and see that Paul was refuting a forged letter saying that the Day of the Lord had already come. He told them what had to precede that Day, such that since the preceding events had not yet come, then neither had the Day. And what were those preceding events?

-- the Departure
-- then the revealing of the Son of Perdition

So it is YOU who Paul would have classified as a deceiver!

And let me remind you, so I don't have to delete any other posts you may make in this thread, that you're not to turn this into what you think is wrong with me. It's about a possible scenario, not a flame war. Consider yourself warned.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
AmericanJedi

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10/20/2012 01:55 PM
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Have you ever considered that Bible 'prophecy' is allegorical in nature and this is what happens to all empires? Birth, Rise, Fall, Decline?

That it is an allegory of the homeostatic nature of humanity.
(GLP aka American Jedi)

Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth.
Kenny Powers

If you steal the dreams of others long enough, sooner or later you'll end up in a nightmare.
American Jedi

Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.
Albert Einstein

Satis Eloquentiae, Sapientiae Parum....

"The last of the old?"

"No, the first of the new."
Keep2theCode (OP)

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10/20/2012 01:57 PM
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Have you ever considered that Bible 'prophecy' is allegorical in nature and this is what happens to all empires? Birth, Rise, Fall, Decline?

That it is an allegory of the homeostatic nature of humanity.
 Quoting: AmericanJedi


I've looked at it, and most other Bible-related topics, from ever conceivable angle. The opinions I hold are based upon my conclusions of having done what I believe is more than adequate study. But thanks for asking.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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And another thing I meant to put with above ^ is that the law covenant-Mosaic law's main purpose was to keep descent of "seed" promised to Abraham, to come through him ,through which" all the nations would bless themselves", and narrowed down --went through Rahab,Ruth and Boaz, for instance, through David,again-- to keep descent-PURE and beyond dispute. Once the Messiah ,Jesus Christ, appeared, the Law covenant which had served as a "fence" keeping them [somewhat? or completely?]in their tribes ,and in their bounds of behavior, and separate from everybody else in the world,again:LAW was no longer needed. People had been able to join up all along , but they had to scrupulously keep the law too. All so no one concerned could dispute the Messiah's lineage.

I just realized that the word, separate, must have as roots, se-"self" and parate-"birthed". "inbred", in a GOOD way.

I'm posting this and will come back with some scriptures, such as Jesus' genealogy, which no one on GLP ever acts like they've ever noticed , that I've ever noticed them noticing anyway.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10858311


This is what so many fail to grasp about the whole choosing of Abram and then the law which came 400 years after the promise. It also shows itself whenever someone uses the term "Abrahamic religions", since they ignore the line through Isaac and Jacob as the line of promise. And that promise, as you know, is the Seed of the Woman, the Messiah, Jesus. Having come, he fulfilled (made no longer in effect) the law for the Jews, but they "cut him off" and were scattered.

So since then, God has turned to the Gentiles and will not turn back to finish the Jewish prophecies until "the full number of Gentiles has come in", at which point the "age of grace" is over. This is yet another support for my belief in the pre-trib Rapture; the final judgments are not for the Bride but for unbelieving Israel and the rebellious world. We are not to suffer the wrath of God with them, since we are in Christ and thus are no longer under condemnation.

I haven't addressed all this other stuff about the two witnesses because I think it ignores too much scripture, and because it's really not pertinent to the topic here about a sequence rather than chasing every rabbit trail, as I said in my OP.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


thanks for writing back. I have to leave right now, but want you to know how much I enjoy both your writing, and how seriously you take this. I seem to recognize in you the same thing i feel so important to me,- "seeking to establish God's righteousness". I guess we're all maybe guilty of seeking to establish our own, to various degrees.
All works-in-progress? I suspected nothing of what I've come to regard as the endlessly fascinating Bible contents, a few years ago. now i want to tell as many as possible as much as possible about this book, a wonderful body of evidence of God's righteousness.
Yes you did get under my skin. For one thing, I knew you were right about attributions. I think you may be a left-brain [oh, i mean brian] -dominant person? [have you thought this?], and I a right brian- dominant. It's happened a few times that left-brainers I know, and love, have gotten legitimately [not fakely, as i implied in your case] upset with me , thinking I was doing the things that annoyed them deliberately, to insult them, but I wasn't. And I am a hothead, but I'm better than I was ,I hope, and at least know that's not the way- now. I still stand by what I said last week "wouldn't want to be deprived of you."
Keep2theCode (OP)

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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
thanks for writing back. I have to leave right now, but want you to know how much I enjoy both your writing, and how seriously you take this. I seem to recognize in you the same thing i feel so important to me,- "seeking to establish God's righteousness". I guess we're all maybe guilty of seeking to establish our own, to various degrees.
All works-in-progress? I suspected nothing of what I've come to regard as the endlessly fascinating Bible contents, a few years ago. now i want to tell as many as possible as much as possible about this book, a wonderful body of evidence of God's righteousness.
Yes you did get under my skin. For one thing, I knew you were right about attributions. I think you may be a left-brain [oh, i mean brian] -dominant person? [have you thought this?], and I a right brian- dominant. It's happened a few times that left-brainers I know, and love, have gotten legitimately [not fakely, as i implied in your case] upset with me , thinking I was doing the things that annoyed them deliberately, to insult them, but I wasn't. And I am a hothead, but I'm better than I was ,I hope, and at least know that's not the way- now. I still stand by what I said last week "wouldn't want to be deprived of you."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10858311


Just so you don't also stand by "that woman you gave me". cool2 Thanks. (And I have stayed out of that debate thread because it's supposed to be between you and the OP about JW teachings.)
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
Here is part of a post I did on what the story of who Joseph represents. People can't see the true end time meaning because they mirror every story to Jesus and Jesus is in the volume of the book, but there is also the first begotten of Jesus who will get a double portion and he will be over the entire household. Here is part of a very good book I read on the subject of Joseph that you haven't seen before:

I read a very good book on prophecy that I think many would enjoy it's called "Enigmatic Sunrise Todays Prophetic Secrets Revealed" and it talks about the last day moshiach. Here is one example: The story of Joseph..as christian people are taught that Joseph represents Jesus because the coat of many colors was dipped in goat's blood..the colors represent the many nations and the blood sacrificial of
what Jesus did on calvary. The Pharoah symbolic of GOD the Father and position of greatest authority on earth. Lets consider another idea involving 3 entities. Jesus
represents pharoah, as pharoah was the ruler of the greatest authority on earth at the time.He was also the provider of the bread and nourishment for the life of men. Joseph correctly interpreted the 7 year famine of food, saving the people from physical starvation. This is a foreshadow of the 7 year tribulation when this Joseph(moshiach) will rise up and save the people from spiritual starvation. When Joseph appeared before Pharoah, Joseph told pharoah that God made these things known to him. If Pharoah was symbolic of God, as has been taught by people today then Joseph would have responded "you pharoah, God have given me the interpretation of the dream!" So the first entity is GOD, as Joseph mentions GOD gave him the interpretation. The second entity is Pharoah, symbolic of the ruler of the kingdom and the source of life during the last seven years of the interpreted spiritual famine. A
type of bread of life or another name for Jesus, and he was the head of the kingdom. The third entity was Joseph himself, a servant to pharoah and, King of the kingdom. Pharoah appointed Joseph secondary head of the kingdom. Joseph became leader and commander through his witness, for he correctly interpreted the dream, and by his witness saved many from death. Not by his sacrifice as was the case Jesus bearing the cross, but by his, Josephs' witness was many saved!
Considering the blood of a goat on the coat of many colors. Jesus is not symbolic of the goat of God but he is the Lamb of GOD! why not the blood of a lamb if it was to symbolize Jesus or a ram at least a ram is a male sheep. A goat is a ruminant mammal related to the sheep, this is symbolic of the gentiles! Again we are dealing with a goat even depicted in the story of Jacob, covering his hands, works in goatskin! Did God direct Josephs' brothers to the goat and not to a lamb by mistake? Was God confused and couldn't find a sheep at the time, or perhaps he forgot the difference between a sheep and a goat! I think not!
Even as Joseph's brothers chose the blood of a goat and rejected the blood of a lamb. Even so would come the time when Joseph's brothers the jewish people, would for a second time reject the blood of the Lamb Of GOD! The blood is not the significant thing here it is what the blood symbolizes this is significant!The Word of God states the life of man is in the blood (Gen.9:4-6)....this is just a small portion
of this book..I would recommend it to everyone...it shows this last day moshiach very clearly
 Quoting: waterman


looking interesting.
have to leave and can't really take it in right now.-later-
but ben -joseph could refer to Jesus in being in Joseph the steward's position? ,as well as son of Joseph,[legally that is]. And he "reassembles them", in several senses.

But the one I believe to be the one and only messiah, also "transforms and elevates them", as he himself was transformed and elevated.
Shiloh-"He who has the legal right, or he to whom it belongs" [it=scepter which "shall not depart from Judah", until...]
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
Sorry OP, but I didn't read any of it after that because if that's how the post starts off, then the rest of it is also incorrect.

I didn't read the 3 pages of comments, so I don't know what was discussed afterwards, but I'm 100% confident on the bible not supporting a pre-trib rapture.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Aw come on, Lisa... I believe one thing you don't and I'm a complete failure? Anyway, I'm 100% sure that you're wrong. Fair enough?
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I"m not trying to hurt your feeling OP, not at all. Please forgive me if I have done that.

I"m just pointing out that your presentation is incorrect from the start, so how could the rest be accurate?

I'd LOVE to believe in a pre-trib rapture, but the Bible tells otherwise. Please read matthew chapter 24 that I posted above then tell me how you believe differently?

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


I looked at the verses in question and wonder if you were referring to the part where Jesus speaks about the 'elect.'

'they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other'

I watched a religious program where the preacher taught about the harvesting of fields back in Israel in those days.

First, they would harvest the first-fruits.

1st Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Jesus has been described as the first-fruits in the Bible.

Then, according to the program I watched, would come the main harvest (rapture).

They were commanded to always leave the four corners of their fields at harvest.

Leviticus 19:9 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.
10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God
.

This preacher was saying that not everyone would be raptured. The 'elect' would be left behind. I'm guessing the reason would be to teach the unbelievers.

As it says in Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

How could those people make it through the tribulation without any believers to guide them? This is what the Bible says concerning the encounter between Philip and the eunuch.

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.


So, the 'four winds' in Matthew could be a reference to the 'corners' of the field at harvest.

That's one explanation. We'll just have to wait and see how everything all comes together.

As to whether it will be pre-trib or not, I'm guessing pre-trib.

In Luke 17 it says
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

So it appears that life will be going on as normal when it happens. I would think if the tribulation was in full force, they'd be hiding out in caves, tents, or bunkers, not resting comfortably in bed. Since believers won't be able to buy or sell without the mark, I don't think they'd be allowed to work their jobs as if nothing was going on either (grinding together - two men shall be in the field).

Just something to think about. Those are some verses that explain a possible pre-trib rapture. I really don't think anyone can know for sure exactly how it will all take place though until it actually happens.
Keep2theCode (OP)

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I watched a religious program where the preacher taught about the harvesting of fields back in Israel in those days... This preacher was saying that not everyone would be raptured. The 'elect' would be left behind. I'm guessing the reason would be to teach the unbelievers. ... So, the 'four winds' in Matthew could be a reference to the 'corners' of the field at harvest.

So it appears that life will be going on as normal when it happens. I would think if the tribulation was in full force, they'd be hiding out in caves, tents, or bunkers, not resting comfortably in bed. Since believers won't be able to buy or sell without the mark, I don't think they'd be allowed to work their jobs as if nothing was going on either (grinding together - two men shall be in the field).

Just something to think about. Those are some verses that explain a possible pre-trib rapture. I really don't think anyone can know for sure exactly how it will all take place though until it actually happens.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2849260


Thanks for bringing up the matter of "the four winds of heaven". It's an interesting take. But I think the fact that it's "the heavens" and not "the earth" could mean that he gathers his elect from all over heaven, where they've been since the Rapture.

But the better point you raised is the issue of normalcy; one would hardly call the events even of the Seal judgments "business as usual". I think that when the Mark of the Beast is enforced, it's because the food is so tightly rationed that everyone will have to get in line for it.

Generally, I hold Mt. 24 to be almost entirely about the Tribulation, while the Rapture is discussed in other passages. We also have to include OT prophetic details, and not just from Daniel; this is why I posted the links in my OP. But I wholeheartedly agree with you about no one knowing, which is another thing I tried to convey in my OP.

This also reminds me of what is one possible event either just before or just after the Rapture: the flattening of Damascus in an overnight assault, which also exacts a heavy toll on Israel. This is from Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
thanks for writing back. I have to leave right now, but want you to know how much I enjoy both your writing, and how seriously you take this. I seem to recognize in you the same thing i feel so important to me,- "seeking to establish God's righteousness". I guess we're all maybe guilty of seeking to establish our own, to various degrees.
All works-in-progress? I suspected nothing of what I've come to regard as the endlessly fascinating Bible contents, a few years ago. now i want to tell as many as possible as much as possible about this book, a wonderful body of evidence of God's righteousness.
Yes you did get under my skin. For one thing, I knew you were right about attributions. I think you may be a left-brain [oh, i mean brian] -dominant person? [have you thought this?], and I a right brian- dominant. It's happened a few times that left-brainers I know, and love, have gotten legitimately [not fakely, as i implied in your case] upset with me , thinking I was doing the things that annoyed them deliberately, to insult them, but I wasn't. And I am a hothead, but I'm better than I was ,I hope, and at least know that's not the way- now. I still stand by what I said last week "wouldn't want to be deprived of you."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10858311


Just so you don't also stand by "that woman you gave me". cool2 Thanks. (And I have stayed out of that debate thread because it's supposed to be between you and the OP about JW teachings.)
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


that was an- obviously lame- attempt at humor. " Woman you gave to be with me", says NWT, if that helps. I was kind of referring to the idea that the thread is like his real estate or something, you 2 are privately p-m-ing ,and I felt by the end of the day, like I'd been put through my paces already, by your attitude of Madame Parliamentarian, and that you seemed to regard the rules as so obvious to all as to not need a mention, until violated by 'moi' , 'a threat to the whole western tradition', it appeared. That's when I thought you were being disingenuous, but now I see that is probably a blind spot for me, and that the way I just drift around, allowing myself to be corralled like livestock [and you're the day-wrangler?], under a thread title like that one, vaguely planning to explain that I don't think 'debate' is appropriate to this subject.... It can lead to misunderstandings.
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10/20/2012 03:27 PM
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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
I think that when the Mark of the Beast is enforced, it's because the food is so tightly rationed that everyone will have to get in line for it.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


But it's also supposedly going to be ridiculously expensive. Who is going to bother receiving a Mark for the privilege of "buying" stuff they can't even afford?
Keep2theCode (OP)

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10/20/2012 03:33 PM
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Re: A Possible Sequence of Events According to Bible Prophecy
that was an- obviously lame- attempt at humor. " Woman you gave to be with me", says NWT, if that helps. I was kind of referring to the idea that the thread is like his real estate or something, you 2 are privately p-m-ing ,and I felt by the end of the day, like I'd been put through my paces already, by your attitude of Madame Parliamentarian, and that you seemed to regard the rules as so obvious to all as to not need a mention, until violated by 'moi' , 'a threat to the whole western tradition', it appeared. That's when I thought you were being disingenuous, but now I see that is probably a blind spot for me, and that the way I just drift around, allowing myself to be corralled like livestock [and you're the day-wrangler?], under a thread title like that one, vaguely planning to explain that I don't think 'debate' is appropriate to this subject.... It can lead to misunderstandings.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10858311


Humor really doesn't come across in writing very well, so in the future you might consider adding a smiley or something. Far as I could tell you were just blame-shifting.

The debate thread that your opponent started really is "his real estate". And it's difficult for me to stand idly by and watch someone have to debate people who weren't even invited (the still-unidentified sources), and not be given a chance to respond between many posts in a row. The PM was ONE brief exchange wherein he expressed gratitude for my efforts on his behalf. If one accepts an invitation to a debate, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to know what that means. And I have no clue what you mean by "a threat to western tradition".

Anyway, that's all I'm going to say about it, especially here. Hopefully we can all return to the topic of sequence in Bible prophecy.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)

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