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# the truth about electricity, voltage, n current

Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 21926154
United States
10/23/2012 09:53 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
There is no such thing as an electron. It is just a handy unit of measurement, comparable to a gram, or liter.

Electrical energy in a wire, is simply the wire vibrating at a certain frequency.

The "current" in a wire is the strength of the magnetic field.

The "voltage" in a wire is simply a reference. It means, if you plugged a reference wire into the energy source, that is the strength of the magnetic field you would get.

However, the wire you plug into the energy source will be different. It will have a different resistance, so you will get a magnetic field around the wire of a different strength.
A different current.

So is the universe electrical? Well... the universe consists of motion. Some of that motion occurs in the frequencies we call 'electrical'.

Nothing mystical or complex about any of this. Except that the textbooks are full of lies to confuse people.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154

electron is not a unit of measurement. A volt is a unit of measurement.

The "vibration" is measured in Hertz.

Current is measured in Amps.

Resistance is measured in Ohms.

Farads are a measure of capacitance.

I just completed a 6000 hour apprenticeship concerning electricity and it's production and distribution.

I am not trying to brow beat you but want to correct your interpretation of how electricity works

Do yourself a favor and order one of these... [link to www.uglysbooks.com]
Quoting: TDJ

the vibration is not a hert. A hert is when the magnetic field expands, rotating one direction, reaches a peak, and then shrinks, reverses rotation, and then peaks again.

That is one hert.

According to the textbook, an amp is a measure of how many electrons flow past a point per second.

But... this is just an inference, based on the incorrect fact that electrons are flowing in the first place. They are not.

The "resistance" you talked about. Wow. Yeah. It is measured. How do you think they measure it? How do you think they know it? They have a reference. Like I said. They get the strength of the magnetic field, produced in that circuit. They call that one amp. The reference has one ohm of resistance. And the energy source is said to have one volt.

Using these references, they then hook up various circuits to their 1 volt energy source. When the circuit is found to have a larger or smaller magnetic field than the reference circuit, they say it has larger or smaller resistance.

In fact, vacuum tubes, like florescent lights, have a negative resistance.

So... sorry. Read all the textbooks you want kid, and keep making good grades. Doesn't mean you know anything.
Keep2theCode

User ID: 20545539
United States
10/23/2012 09:58 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current

A "hert"?

Please, you're making my sides "hert"!

But seriously, Hertz is the name of the guy they named "cycles" after. To not know this, and think there's such a thing as a "hert".... oookaay.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Life and Love

User ID: 18613580
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10/23/2012 10:01 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current

A "hert"?

Please, you're making my sides "hert"!

But seriously, Hertz is the name of the guy they named "cycles" after. To not know this, and think there's such a thing as a "hert".... oookaay.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward

Singular of hertz. LOL :)
We become like that to which we are devoted. - Choose wisely.
WhatsItAllAbout Alfie

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10/23/2012 10:14 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
Niagara Falls. Slowly I turn. Step by step. Inch by inch
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 21926154
United States
10/23/2012 10:18 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current

A "hert"?

Please, you're making my sides "hert"!

But seriously, Hertz is the name of the guy they named "cycles" after. To not know this, and think there's such a thing as a "hert".... oookaay.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward

Singular of hertz. LOL :)
Quoting: Keep2theCode

Whatever man. All of the actual information there, and you focus on an obvious typo. Lets see, I'v never had to explain what 1Hz was in my entire life. And it feels natural to say hert. Get over yourself.

I know this is GLP. But if you don't know what you're talking about and are only regurgitating what you've read in a text book somewhere as opposed to having actually done something... don't say anything at all.

You obviously have no understanding of how meters work. Its all about magnetic fields.

And as far as the X-ray tech, who said that the cathode heats up and makes electrons...

It makes negative ions. Negative ions produced by heat are called thermions I believe. The word 'electron' is thrown around all over the place because its a bullshit word.

Anyways, I was just using GLP as a sounding board. Didn't expect to find any intelligent response. So I'm not that disappointed.

Peace.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 23142272
Canada
10/23/2012 10:37 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
Ohm my Gawd.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25878315

yes! lol
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1310035
New Zealand
10/23/2012 10:40 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
There has always been alternating thoeries on this.
You come across very direct though?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24469727

There will be resistance

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25878315

There better not be or people will get Hz
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12527214
United States
10/23/2012 10:45 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
you still keep saying "vibration" when it is a wave. energy travels in two waves when passing threw matter. one being the electrical current, the other being a magnet wave. no electron has been passed along from one source to another. the energy uses the neutron,proton, and the electron(what makes up an atom, not sure if everyone knows that)to pass threw the matter.

if you want to see for yourself what i just said, get a cooking pan and put just enough water to cover the pan. next find a power source, one you can move around if needed. a household outlet will work find, just use a surge protector. take an old lamp plug and cut the end off and separate the two wires. try not to shock yourself from here on out. plug in the cord and now put the two ends in the water. might have to move them closer till you get them to arc under the water.

no electron passed from the copper wire to the water but the energy still passed threw both. the energy simply just used the atoms of each to move along, transferring from one to the next.

hope that helps clear up what it is you are measuring.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1610534
United States
10/23/2012 10:54 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
I've thought about this stuff myself alot. I am also ex-navy (opticalman). I understand, electrically, what Tesla was trying to do except I don't understand how he was going to transmit it around the earth.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25559036

Tesla was working with scalar potentials. Charging them up, and then devising controlled releases of them. He realized that the entire planet had scalar potentials that could be tapped, especially since natural processes such as earthquakes and lightning acted as charge balancing mechanisms. So you wouldn't have to "fill up" the whole planet, but just introduce a local imbalace that you could control, to act as an EM spigot - or gun barrel, depending on your needs.

This tech has been ferociously pursued since then by black ops. Nukes are long obsolete.

If ETs are concerned at all with human tech potential, it's over the abuse of scalar weapons, not nukes.
jhamil76

User ID: 12725843
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10/23/2012 10:57 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
an ion is an atom missing or having an extra electron from its orbital shell. an atom is made of a proton(+) and a nuetron(nuetral)as its nucleus. surrounded by orbitl shell up to 7 shells. the 7th being most dense like you. on these shells eletrons(-) move within the layer of each shell. held together by electromagnetics. neg to pos. right? electrons have no mass. where each element is mesured by its atomic weight proton+nuetron= amu. number of electrons on shell is 2(N)squared. a 1/2jawbreaker is a great model of a atom. all the dots are electrons! layers orbital shells and of course the nucleus the center.
gus
User ID: 26188197
Brazil
10/23/2012 11:04 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
So... sorry. Read all the textbooks you want kid, and keep making good grades. Doesn't mean you know anything.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154

I know what u mean OP.. electrons don't really exist. It's just man-made abstraction to confuse people. What really exists is force, energy, vibration.

Electricity is essentialy a magnetic phenomenom, but in order to measure it they need a reference, hence the "electron".

corpuscular theory is the dumbed down version for sheeple who don't really understand reality, no matter how much "educated" they think they are. It's pathetic when they start talking about their non-existing particles as if it somehow explains the phenomenom.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12527214
United States
10/23/2012 11:04 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
an ion is an atom missing or having an extra electron from its orbital shell. an atom is made of a proton(+) and a nuetron(nuetral)as its nucleus. surrounded by orbitl shell up to 7 shells. the 7th being most dense like you. on these shells eletrons(-) move within the layer of each shell. held together by electromagnetics. neg to pos. right? electrons have no mass. where each element is mesured by its atomic weight proton+nuetron= amu. number of electrons on shell is 2(N)squared. a 1/2jawbreaker is a great model of a atom. all the dots are electrons! layers orbital shells and of course the nucleus the center.
Quoting: jhamil76

an electron has mass, it is made up of the same matter as its neutron and proton. did the proton not come from the neutron, or the electron come from the proton? if you have another theory on how they are created i would sure like to hear it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1018225
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10/23/2012 11:07 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
O.K. Ill bite electrical energy is a wave or oscillation, but nothing physically moves, this is what you are saying right op? O.K. now examine the concept of the battery, why does it discharge if all it is carrying is a vibration?
How does a disconnected battery not lose its charge to physical resistance of the medium?
After pondering that consider static electricity, it has no magnetic field, yet it is a electrical charge.
If you discharge a static charge it generates a magnetic field that can be observed by simply listening to an A.M. radio.
Please explain.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26189346
United States
10/23/2012 11:10 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
There is no such thing as an electron. It is just a handy unit of measurement, comparable to a gram, or liter.

Electrical energy in a wire, is simply the wire vibrating at a certain frequency.

The "current" in a wire is the strength of the magnetic field.

The "voltage" in a wire is simply a reference. It means, if you plugged a reference wire into the energy source, that is the strength of the magnetic field you would get.

However, the wire you plug into the energy source will be different. It will have a different resistance, so you will get a magnetic field around the wire of a different strength.
A different current.

So is the universe electrical? Well... the universe consists of motion. Some of that motion occurs in the frequencies we call 'electrical'.

Nothing mystical or complex about any of this. Except that the textbooks are full of lies to confuse people.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154

i think you are misunderstanding what an electron is. an electron is made of the same matter as its proton is. it positions its self around the proton using the two magnetic fields(one field from the proton one from the electron). the interaction of these two causes energy to be produced. the energy travels in a wave, which is how it moves through other matter. and yes the vastness of the universe is full of potential for electricity
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12527214

go ahead and show just one example of someone actually observing an electron in a specific area of space. 100% guarantee not a single person on this planet on our level can measure a single electron. Electron cloud theory.

We measure electrons by the indirect force that is generated from as you stated. One flaw though, they are definitely NOT of the same matter. Electrons do not produce mass only protons and neutrons do that.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25559036
United States
10/23/2012 11:12 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
I've thought about this stuff myself alot. I am also ex-navy (opticalman). I understand, electrically, what Tesla was trying to do except I don't understand how he was going to transmit it around the earth.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25559036

Tesla was working with scalar potentials. Charging them up, and then devising controlled releases of them. He realized that the entire planet had scalar potentials that could be tapped, especially since natural processes such as earthquakes and lightning acted as charge balancing mechanisms. So you wouldn't have to "fill up" the whole planet, but just introduce a local imbalace that you could control, to act as an EM spigot - or gun barrel, depending on your needs.

This tech has been ferociously pursued since then by black ops. Nukes are long obsolete.

If ETs are concerned at all with human tech potential, it's over the abuse of scalar weapons, not nukes.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1610534

Thanx for your input.
gus
User ID: 26188197
Brazil
10/23/2012 11:15 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
you still keep saying "vibration" when it is a wave. energy travels in two waves when passing threw matter. one being the electrical current, the other being a magnet wave. no electron has been passed along from one source to another. the energy uses the neutron,proton, and the electron(what makes up an atom, not sure if everyone knows that)to pass threw the matter.

...

no electron passed from the copper wire to the water but the energy still passed threw both. the energy simply just used the atoms of each to move along, transferring from one to the next.

hope that helps clear up what it is you are measuring.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12527214

wait a minute dude. let's rewind the tape.

"wave"? "neutron"? "proton"? "electron"? "atom"?

Pay close attention to what I'll say: none of these things you mentioned even exist. They are just abstract and imaginary concepts / entities for the purpose of literal measurement and interpretation of reality. You learn nothing when you try to understand reality in terms of imaginary entities.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26189346
United States
10/23/2012 11:17 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
craziest thing I ever learned about quantum physics, is that at the very smallest level of what we think exists, exists no pressure. Its the theory why the universe is constantly expanding because energy has no resistance at the bottom level, thus will always spread out in all directions. Kinda interesting as that explains infinity quite well :)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12527214
United States
10/23/2012 11:18 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
So... sorry. Read all the textbooks you want kid, and keep making good grades. Doesn't mean you know anything.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154

I know what u mean OP.. electrons don't really exist. It's just man-made abstraction to confuse people. What really exists is force, energy, vibration.

Electricity is essentialy a magnetic phenomenom, but in order to measure it they need a reference, hence the "electron".

corpuscular theory is the dumbed down version for sheeple who don't really understand reality, no matter how much "educated" they think they are. It's pathetic when they start talking about their non-existing particles as if it somehow explains the phenomenom.
Quoting: gus 26188197

i have seen electron moving around the proton, there are many videos on this so you can see it yourself. an electron has nothing to do with currents as i have said in 2 other post already. energy(byproduct of 2 magnet fields interacting) travels in waves, passing from one atom to the next. the electron within the matter the current is passing threw does the same thing it was before the current, travels around its proton. nothing changes, a copper wire is still a copper wire is it not? i will say it again with caps AN ELECTRON HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ELECTRIC CURRENT, AN ELECTRON IS PART OF AN ATOM, MANY ATOMS MAKE MATTER. don't mean to sound rude but i stated your misunderstanding twice already.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19932676
United States
10/23/2012 11:20 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
so, OP

what is an arc jumping? what is it that is visible, hot, and moving...and can be seen to move in slow motion....some 'thing' moves
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1018225
United States
10/23/2012 11:22 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
you still keep saying "vibration" when it is a wave. energy travels in two waves when passing threw matter. one being the electrical current, the other being a magnet wave. no electron has been passed along from one source to another. the energy uses the neutron,proton, and the electron(what makes up an atom, not sure if everyone knows that)to pass threw the matter.

...

no electron passed from the copper wire to the water but the energy still passed threw both. the energy simply just used the atoms of each to move along, transferring from one to the next.

hope that helps clear up what it is you are measuring.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12527214

wait a minute dude. let's rewind the tape.

"wave"? "neutron"? "proton"? "electron"? "atom"?

Pay close attention to what I'll say: none of these things you mentioned even exist. They are just abstract and imaginary concepts / entities for the purpose of literal measurement and interpretation of reality. You learn nothing when you try to understand reality in terms of imaginary entities.
Quoting: gus 26188197

The same can be said for mathematics.
It is an entirely imaginary construct based on mans perception.
Consider the base ten system that everyone uses, it is not a coincidence that we have eight fingers and two thumbs.
Just because we count things does not mean that the universe actually does, it is just a tool.
In reality either something is there or it is not.
The universe does not care if something is or isn't, but humans do.
We do not perceive the universe as it is, we speculate and imagine how it works, and when we get tied down to dogmas, science is no better than religion.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12527214
United States
10/23/2012 11:24 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
you still keep saying "vibration" when it is a wave. energy travels in two waves when passing threw matter. one being the electrical current, the other being a magnet wave. no electron has been passed along from one source to another. the energy uses the neutron,proton, and the electron(what makes up an atom, not sure if everyone knows that)to pass threw the matter.

...

no electron passed from the copper wire to the water but the energy still passed threw both. the energy simply just used the atoms of each to move along, transferring from one to the next.

hope that helps clear up what it is you are measuring.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12527214

wait a minute dude. let's rewind the tape.

"wave"? "neutron"? "proton"? "electron"? "atom"?

Pay close attention to what I'll say: none of these things you mentioned even exist. They are just abstract and imaginary concepts / entities for the purpose of literal measurement and interpretation of reality. You learn nothing when you try to understand reality in terms of imaginary entities.
Quoting: gus 26188197

then explain what matter is made of.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24207628
United States
10/23/2012 11:25 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
Niagara Falls. Slowly I turn. Step by step. Inch by inch
Quoting: WhatsItAllAbout Alfie

DON'T CALL ME DUDE!
jhamil76

User ID: 12725843
United States
10/23/2012 11:26 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
you still keep saying "vibration" when it is a wave. energy travels in two waves when passing threw matter. one being the electrical current, the other being a magnet wave. no electron has been passed along from one source to another. the energy uses the neutron,proton, and the electron(what makes up an atom, not sure if everyone knows that)to pass threw the matter.

...

no electron passed from the copper wire to the water but the energy still passed threw both. the energy simply just used the atoms of each to move along, transferring from one to the next.

hope that helps clear up what it is you are measuring.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12527214

wait a minute dude. let's rewind the tape.

"wave"? "neutron"? "proton"? "electron"? "atom"?

Pay close attention to what I'll say: none of these things you mentioned even exist. They are just abstract and imaginary concepts / entities for the purpose of literal measurement and interpretation of reality. You learn nothing when you try to understand reality in terms of imaginary entities.
Quoting: gus 26188197

there for you do not exist. and your just a vibration.
gus
User ID: 26188197
Brazil
10/23/2012 11:26 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
i have seen electron moving around the proton, there are many videos on this so you can see it yourself.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12527214

no you haven't. these are just computer simulations or graphics based on data extracted from energy signals. "atom" is just a mathematic model. it doesn't really exist.

an electron has nothing to do with currents as i have said in 2 other post already. energy(byproduct of 2 magnet fields interacting) travels in waves, passing from one atom to the next. the electron within the matter the current is passing threw does the same thing it was before the current, travels around its proton. nothing changes, a copper wire is still a copper wire is it not? i will say it again with caps AN ELECTRON HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ELECTRIC CURRENT, AN ELECTRON IS PART OF AN ATOM, MANY ATOMS MAKE MATTER. don't mean to sound rude but i stated your misunderstanding twice already.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12527214

Ok sorry. Now I get what you're saying; it makes sense and is a more advanced form of understanding than the common view of "free-moving" electrons on a wire. but one can go even further in the way they understand electricity and electrical current when they realize that atoms don't really exist. That's the only thing I was challenging in your post.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1018225
United States
10/23/2012 11:28 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
craziest thing I ever learned about quantum physics, is that at the very smallest level of what we think exists, exists no pressure. Its the theory why the universe is constantly expanding because energy has no resistance at the bottom level, thus will always spread out in all directions. Kinda interesting as that explains infinity quite well :)
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26189346

The universe is not expanding, if you want to check take a optical measurement using angles, if the universe were expanding as some claim to explain gravity you would not be able to see the light or shape of the planets as in the time it takes for the light to reach you your eye would be so much larger than the object, it would show as what we call an atom.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
10/23/2012 11:31 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
So help me out here. No puns to contribute.

So I put some water in an electric skillet, plug "electricity" into the pan, and the resistance(or heat of resistance) of the pan heats the water. Very simple.

Buuuttt. What I really want to know is how can I get electricity from heated matter. Can we reverse the skillet/water thing. The atmosphere around us, in fact everything higher than absolute zero, is filled with heat that we need to translate into electrical energy.

So can a Tesla coil receive the electrical energy that fills the air and can it be processed to provide electrical energy that we can use?

OP?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25701943
Australia
10/23/2012 11:32 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
Wire we still talking about this?
gus
User ID: 26188197
Brazil
10/23/2012 11:33 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
then explain what matter is made of.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12527214

Matter is just energy taking shape / form.

The real question is, what is energy made of?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12527214
United States
10/23/2012 11:35 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
There is no such thing as an electron. It is just a handy unit of measurement, comparable to a gram, or liter.

Electrical energy in a wire, is simply the wire vibrating at a certain frequency.

The "current" in a wire is the strength of the magnetic field.

The "voltage" in a wire is simply a reference. It means, if you plugged a reference wire into the energy source, that is the strength of the magnetic field you would get.

However, the wire you plug into the energy source will be different. It will have a different resistance, so you will get a magnetic field around the wire of a different strength.
A different current.

So is the universe electrical? Well... the universe consists of motion. Some of that motion occurs in the frequencies we call 'electrical'.

Nothing mystical or complex about any of this. Except that the textbooks are full of lies to confuse people.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154

i think you are misunderstanding what an electron is. an electron is made of the same matter as its proton is. it positions its self around the proton using the two magnetic fields(one field from the proton one from the electron). the interaction of these two causes energy to be produced. the energy travels in a wave, which is how it moves through other matter. and yes the vastness of the universe is full of potential for electricity
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12527214

go ahead and show just one example of someone actually observing an electron in a specific area of space. 100% guarantee not a single person on this planet on our level can measure a single electron. Electron cloud theory.

We measure electrons by the indirect force that is generated from as you stated. One flaw though, they are definitely NOT of the same matter. Electrons do not produce mass only protons and neutrons do that.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26189346

the cloud is the light produced by the magnet fields of the proton and electron interacting. so yes we have seen it. if that is not what is causing the light then please explain what is. and an electron comes from the proton, after you try to explain the first one explain where a electron comes from as you can not say there is no such thing as a electron.
Anonymous Coward
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10/23/2012 11:35 PM
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Re: the truth about electricity, voltage, n current
So help me out here. No puns to contribute.

So I put some water in an electric skillet, plug "electricity" into the pan, and the resistance(or heat of resistance) of the pan heats the water. Very simple.

Buuuttt. What I really want to know is how can I get electricity from heated matter. Can we reverse the skillet/water thing. The atmosphere around us, in fact everything higher than absolute zero, is filled with heat that we need to translate into electrical energy.

So can a Tesla coil receive the electrical energy that fills the air and can it be processed to provide electrical energy that we can use?

OP?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25931926

You are looking for the Edison effect, it is how vacuum tubes work.
The plate in a vacuum tube is heated (Either self heated, or by a heating element) and electrons are boiled off into the vacuum. There are grids that can adjusted for voltage by external sources to push or pull the electrons, and the electrons are then collected for final use.