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Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?

 
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/28/2012 11:20 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
JESUS IS SAYING THAT HE IS HUMAN AND NOT AN ALTERED CREATION OR A GENETICALLY MODIFIED OR ENGINERRIED BEAST.

HE IS "PURE" AND OF A MAN AND A WOMAN.

BORN OF A WOMAN AND A MAN = PURE AND HUMAN AND NOT

A CREATION FROM A LAB OR A DEVIANT OR A MODIFIED OR SPLICED OR SECTIONED ANOMALY.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15256858


correction:
born of a woman.

but, yes, not a modified or spliced/deviant hybrid of fallen angels and women.
 Quoting: Salt


His genetic Father was Gabriel, the body needed celestial DNA for the incarnation. Most of us starseeds coming in now have modified DNA too, in some manner. I do which is why I have been telepathic since a small child.

With the failure of the Adam and Eve mission, the races did not get adequate genetic uplift, so better DNA is being added in other ways. Jesus left behind 6 children which inserted Gabriel's dna into the population. One child with Mary M. The crucifixion separated them. 5 others with his second wife in India.
 Quoting: God Loves ALL


Candace? is that you?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
cool i can still get in,lol...the bible is metaphor's of our own lives from paradise/the womb with our male /female spirit/adam and eve,through the old testament<childhood with laws) to the new testament<adulthood knowing good and bad) until our death to the world<we realize we are spirit and we have no beginning and no end(no alpha and no omega) for the concepts of gods,goddesses,saviors,prophets,devils ,demons,etc do have an alpha and an omega...but the shared spirit within us all does not, for we existed before the concepts and we created the concepts...hf
 Quoting: T Ceti H.C. Radnarg


i hope its ok, my post here.. the thread needs help..

[link to www.g]
odlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2007554/pg40#34116199
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2012 11:23 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
...the races did not get adequate genetic uplift, so better DNA is being added in other ways. Jesus left behind 6 children which inserted Gabriel's dna into the population. One child with Mary M. The crucifixion separated them. 5 others with his second wife in India.
 Quoting: God Loves ALL


I cannot help but laugh..
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2012 11:25 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
He is the Son of God, made in the form of a Man. Of Man.
T Ceti H.C. Radnarg

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10/28/2012 11:25 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
cool i can still get in,lol...the bible is metaphor's of our own lives from paradise/the womb with our male /female spirit/adam and eve,through the old testament<childhood with laws) to the new testament<adulthood knowing good and bad) until our death to the world<we realize we are spirit and we have no beginning and no end(no alpha and no omega) for the concepts of gods,goddesses,saviors,prophets,devils ,demons,etc do have an alpha and an omega...but the shared spirit within us all does not, for we existed before the concepts and we created the concepts...hf
 Quoting: T Ceti H.C. Radnarg


thats very interesting. so adam and eve are metaphores for the human spirit; in the womb? birth is the consuption of the apple i.e. death of existence in the womb?
 Quoting: Dr.DoomLittle
here's the short version> the snake is free will and the spirit in the ark/baby chooses to be born with its free will...soooo the spirit in the baby ark gets kicked out of paradise and begets cain/desire and abel/humility as its personality grows but desire/cain kills abel/humility...sooooo,we must raise abel back to life within ourselfs to rule over his brother,cain/free will...cain also symbolizes pride and vanity...
How unfortunate for some rulers when men,women,and children continue to think... Keep repeating the lies loud enough and long enough and just maybe the people will start to believe the lies again and good luck with that...finding your energy open until mars becomes raging aries...
God Loves ALL

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10/28/2012 11:26 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Nephilim is a Hebrew word from the book of Genesis, translated to English having nothing to do with actual giants or fallen angels. The uninspired gnostic book of Enoch was not written by Enoch, and again has no inspiration. Jesus did not use the book of Enoch. It is not to be used as scripture.

[link to www.apostolic-churches.net]

Physical giants was the Hebrew word: rapha (Deu 2:11)

Angels do not breed or procreate. The passage has nothing to do with fallen angels, and all early Christian Bible commentators understood this.

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to davelivingston.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26103646


angels do not MARRY.
there is a big difference.
 Quoting: Salt


they don't? Oh yes they do, they just don't have reproducing bodies. So they don't have children. There are matches between angels that last billions of year.
The actual Lord's Prayer Given by Jesus 2000 years ago.

"MY SPIRIT, YOU ARE OMNIPOTENT. YOUR NAME IS HOLY. MAY YOUR REALM BE INCARNATE IN ME. MAY YOUR POWER REVEAL ITSELF WITHIN ME, ON EARTH AND IN THE HEAVEN. GIVE ME TODAY MY DAILY BREAD, AND THUS, LET ME RECOGNIZE MY TRANSGRESSIONS AND ERRORS, AND I SHALL RECOGNIZE THE TRUTH. AND DO NOT LEAD ME INTO TEMPTATION AND CONFUSION, BUT DELIVER ME FROM ERROR. FOR YOURS IS THE REALM WITHIN ME AND THE POWER AND THE KNOWLEDGE FOREVER,
AMEN.

Nice video: [link to www.youtube.com] Make this World a Better One

Thread: Walter Russell Quotes Walter Russell thread
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/28/2012 11:35 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

matthew 22:30
T Ceti H.C. Radnarg

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10/28/2012 11:37 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
you think a 99 degree Freemason would know a few things that the public has been kept from but we doing the Ezekiel 7:19 thing this year as its the 14,400 year cycle ending,(144,000 in Revelations) we add and subtract zeros on numbers...adam died at 930 years,you add 5 zero's onto that and get the distance from the sun/adam from paradise/earth...the metaphors are layered into sciences including but not limited to metaphysical science...some of the ages of the 'biblical' charters are frequencies in hertz...maybe you have seen this frequency generator>pillar..each monkey is 10 hertz aka gamma or the "god feeling" like a present is near you...the alkaloid plants go into the black rubber bowls connected to the slim hollow base which is connected to the alternating metals of copper and magnetic iron...their wearing headpieces to concentrate the frequencies to their pineal glands for extra creativity to invent and such..
How unfortunate for some rulers when men,women,and children continue to think... Keep repeating the lies loud enough and long enough and just maybe the people will start to believe the lies again and good luck with that...finding your energy open until mars becomes raging aries...
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
He is the Son of God, made in the form of a Man. Of Man.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


whatever helps..
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/28/2012 11:38 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
The "Sons of God" Seen as Fallen Angels

First, one view commonly held today that teaches:

The Bible's definition of the "sons of God" is given in such Scriptures as Job 2:1 and Job 38:7 where the "sons of God" clearly are God's angels.

Angels can assume human form (Gen. 19, etc.) and when they do they appear as males.

II Peter 2:4 and Jude 6 say that some of the evil angels before the Flood left their proper abode (i.e. heaven) and came to Earth and had children by human women. For this reason, these particular angels have now been bound in Hell.

The resulting children became the Nephilim –a cross between the angel world and the human species. They were the mighty tyrants of "the world that then was."

Some of the early Christian leaders taught that the "sons of God" in Genesis 6:2 were fallen angels who had sexual intercourse with earthly women. Therefore, this ancient understanding should be viewed as the legitimate one.

The mixing between angels and women was so pronounced that by the time of the Flood only Noah (Gen. 6:9) was found to be, in the words of the King James Version, "perfect in his generations" (i.e. physical purity in blood line with no mixing of angelic/human ancestors).

To some, these reasons are an "open and shut case." Those who believe otherwise commit, in the words of one writer, "a rape of the biblical text."

Many more tentacles of this belief reach out and affect numerous other fields of understanding. However, this article will limit the issue to the items discussed above.
The Alternate View

Now let's examine the second view. The numbering will coincide with the points given in view one.
#1: How does the Bible interpret the phrase "sons of God"?

The first and most basic rule of biblical interpretation is letting the Bible explain itself by looking at all the scriptures on the subject. Picking and choosing and overlooking the biblical thread of the verses can lead to some very flawed conclusions.

The phrase "sons of God" is, indeed, used to describe the angels of God (Job 2:1, etc.). Even in these supposed "proof" texts of Job 1 and elsewhere where angels are called "sons of God," it is important to notice that only the righteous angels are the "sons of God."

For example, in Job 1, the devil is not included among their count. Rather he shows up suddenly without an invitation. Thus, the Lord's question to Satan of where he came from. (Interestingly, Satan's response was like that of a teenager who has been out all night and when his parents ask where he has been gives an evasive answer: "Just hangin' out.")

Righteous angels are the "sons of God" by creation – God is their Father in that limited sense. Scripture says that those who follow Satan have him as their father (John 8:44). It does not necessarily follow that the phrase "sons of God" always refers just to the righteous angels. Instead, the phrase and overall concept is overwhelmingly applied in Scripture – not to angels – but to believers!

First, let's look at some Old Testament examples where God's people are reckoned as His children, His sons and daughters. In the world after the Deluge, God called forth His people and saved them from Egyptian slavery. He gave them strict laws to obey. Notice how God addressed them:

"You are the sons of the LORD your God. [For this reason] you shall not cut yourselves or make any baldness on your forehead for the dead. For you are a people holy to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the people who are on the face of the earth." (Deuteronomy 14:1-2)

Even after the Lord dispersed Israel because of their sins, He promised to gather them from the four winds of the earth. And, God once again calls them His sons and daughters:

"Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, and from the west I will gather you. I will say to the north, Give up, and to the south, Do not withhold; bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the end of the earth, everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made" (Isaiah 43:5-7).

Such phrases are also used by the prophet Hosea in two places. In one a general term is used and in the second the specific word "son" is used:

"And in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people, it shall be said to them, 'Children of the living God'" (Hosea 1:10).

"When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son" (Hosea 11:1).

This latter verse is dual in meaning, referring to both Israel as God's "firstborn son" (Exodus 4:22-23) and the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ, the Father's only begotten Son. In all cases, we see a consistent usage referring to believers which agrees with a human – not angelic -- interpretation of Genesis 6:2.

[link to www.creationhistory.com]
T Ceti H.C. Radnarg

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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

matthew 22:30
 Quoting: Salt
...i guess so, we will be spirit again,out of the body...marriage is a concept anyways of the flesh...we are spirit within and share the spirit together anyways...and we will be asked of ourselfs,did we or didn't we overcome this world and its concepts or did the concepts overcome our spirit? if we didn't overcome this world,back we go to live here again..if we did overcome this world,on to another world we go...that which you bind here shall be bound in the universe,that which you loose here will be loosed in the universe...

Last Edited by T Ceti H.C. Radnarg on 10/28/2012 11:44 PM
How unfortunate for some rulers when men,women,and children continue to think... Keep repeating the lies loud enough and long enough and just maybe the people will start to believe the lies again and good luck with that...finding your energy open until mars becomes raging aries...
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2012 11:40 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

matthew 22:30
 Quoting: Salt


at the resurrection?

when people pass away, they will be like the angels in heaven..
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/28/2012 11:42 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

matthew 22:30
 Quoting: Salt


at the resurrection?

when people pass away, they will be like the angels in heaven..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26510026


nobody is in Heaven until after judgment day. the dead are asleep (or in a temporary place).
Aikan

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10/28/2012 11:46 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

matthew 22:30
 Quoting: Salt


at the resurrection?

when people pass away, they will be like the angels in heaven..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26510026


nobody is in Heaven until after judgment day. the dead are asleep (or in a temporary place).
 Quoting: Salt


Thread: The sons of God - Fallen angels or the children of God? Nephilim..

do the angels mate? or not? this point is very well covered in the later part of the video. starts getting into it at about 5 or 10 minutes into the video..

Last Edited by Aikan on 10/29/2012 02:04 AM
Aikan
T Ceti H.C. Radnarg

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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

matthew 22:30
 Quoting: Salt


at the resurrection?

when people pass away, they will be like the angels in heaven..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26510026


nobody is in Heaven until after judgment day. the dead are asleep (or in a temporary place).
 Quoting: Salt
asleep means you only got 2 eyes,awake means you got 3 eyes...2 eyes is a calcified pineal gland and 3 eyes is a clean pineal gland and the rest of the temple...if you got 3 eyes you can see the scripture in First Person for we are the spirit within,not a concept that came later and with it the correct translations...for its written> the spirit brings all former things back to remembrance...

Last Edited by T Ceti H.C. Radnarg on 10/28/2012 11:50 PM
How unfortunate for some rulers when men,women,and children continue to think... Keep repeating the lies loud enough and long enough and just maybe the people will start to believe the lies again and good luck with that...finding your energy open until mars becomes raging aries...
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2012 11:48 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
abandonment issues?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26501904


Typical Oztard
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Deut 3:11
For only Og the king of Bashan was left of the remnant of the Rephaim. Behold, his bed was a bed of iron. Is it not in Rabbah of the Ammonites? Nine cubits was its length, and four cubits its breadth, according to the common cubit.)

Amos 2:9
“Yet it was I who destroyed the Amorite before them, whose height was like the height of the cedars and who was as strong as the oaks; I destroyed his fruit above and his roots beneath.

Deut 2:10
The Emim formerly lived there, a people great and many, and tall as the Anakim.

1Chron 20:8
These were descended from the giants in Gath, and they fell by the hand of David and by the hand of his servants. (Goliath)

research: Amorites,Anakim, Canaanites, Hittites, Raphaims, Morites, and more (all tribes of Nephilim who survived the flood by taking to caves)

bible tells of many battles/wars in efforts to kill off the Nephilim
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Jesus is God.
 Quoting: Salt


Jesus is not his Father.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

matthew 22:30
 Quoting: Salt


at the resurrection?

when people pass away, they will be like the angels in heaven..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26510026


nobody is in Heaven until after judgment day. the dead are asleep (or in a temporary place).
 Quoting: Salt


LOL, Henoch and Eliah, AT LEAST.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
And why does the Bible say this when Jesus called himself "Son of Man" all the time?

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

AMAZING!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


read above

It's Son NOT son
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22241004


Sorry BUT it can't be... Jesus spoke Aramaic...

There are no capitals in Aramaic or Hebrew.

Next false teaching!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


"The key to this title and Jesus' use of it is the imagery of Dan. 7:13-14, where the term is not a title but a description of a figure who rides the clouds and receives authority directly from God in heaven. The Old Testament background to the title does not emerge immediately in Jesus' ministry, but is connected to remarks made to the disciples at the Olivet discourse and Jesus' reply at his examination by the Jewish leadership.

The title is appropriate because of its unique fusion of human and divine elements. A 'son of man' is simply an expression that describes a human being.

In contrast to the strange beasts of Dan. 7, this is a figure who is normal, except for the authority he receives.

In riding the clouds, this man is doing something otherwise left only to the description of divinity in the Old Testament (Exod. 14:20; 34:5; Num. 10:34; Ps. 104:3; Isa. 19:1).

In addition, the title was in Aramaic an indirect way to refer to oneself, making it a less harsh way to make a significant claim. Despite its indirectness, the nature of Jesus' consistent use of the term makes it clear that he was referring to himself, not someone else"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22241004


In addition, the title was in Aramaic an indirect way to refer to oneself, making it a less harsh way to make a significant claim. Despite its indirectness, the nature of Jesus' consistent use of the term makes it clear that he was referring to himself, not someone else"

As I said, read above.

Seeing isn't believing.

Matt 16:4\/\/\/

A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22241004


I am confused... all this seems like Bible babble to justify something that can't be justified.

As Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic didn't have capitals it changes many things.

Exodus 3:14 "i am who i am" or "i am that i am" for instance. Moany versions of the Bible have it all in capitals "I AM THAT I AM" and many have it as some capitals "I Am That I Am".

This can't be and yet Christians are quite happy with it. Why? Isn't accuracy in translation important?
Sevens8

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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
(1390.1) 126:3.6 In the course of this year Jesus found a passage in the so-called Book of Enoch which influenced him in the later adoption of the term “Son of Man” as a designation for his bestowal mission on Urantia. He had thoroughly considered the idea of the Jewish Messiah and was firmly convinced that he was not to be that Messiah. He longed to help his father’s people, but he never expected to lead Jewish armies in overthrowing the foreign domination of Palestine. He knew he would never sit on the throne of David at Jerusalem. Neither did he believe that his mission was that of a spiritual deliverer or moral teacher solely to the Jewish people. In no sense, therefore, could his life mission be the fulfillment of the intense longings and supposed Messianic prophecies of the Hebrew scriptures; at least, not as the Jews understood these predictions of the prophets. Likewise he was certain he was never to appear as the Son of Man depicted by the Prophet Daniel.

(1390.2) 126:3.7 But when the time came for him to go forth as a world teacher, what would he call himself? What claim should he make concerning his mission? By what name would he be called by the people who would become believers in his teachings?

(1390.3) 126:3.8
>>While turning all these problems over in his mind, he found in the synagogue library at Nazareth, among the apocalyptic books which he had been studying, this manuscript called “The Book of Enoch”; and though he was certain that it had not been written by Enoch of old, it proved very intriguing to him, and he read and reread it many times. There was one passage which particularly impressed him, a passage in which this term “Son of Man” appeared. The writer of this so-called Book of Enoch went on to tell about this Son of Man,<<>> describing the work he would do on earth and explaining that this Son of Man, before coming down on this earth to bring salvation to mankind, had walked through the courts of heavenly glory with his Father, the Father of all; and that he had turned his back upon all this grandeur and glory to come down on earth to proclaim salvation to needy mortals.<<

As Jesus would read these passages (well understanding that much of the Eastern mysticism which had become admixed with these teachings was erroneous), he responded in his heart and recognized in his mind that of all the Messianic predictions of the Hebrew scriptures and of all the theories about the Jewish deliverer, none was so near the truth as this story tucked away in this only partially accredited Book of Enoch;<<

>> and he then and there decided to adopt as his inaugural title “the Son of Man.”<<

And this he did when he subsequently began his public work. Jesus had an unerring ability for the recognition of truth, and truth he never hesitated to embrace, no matter from what source it appeared to emanate.

[link to www.urantia.org]

This is the book that led us to 2 expeditions to 1st Eden(the beginning) submerged off the coast of Cyprus submerged and verified.

In addition we know where Dilmun/Babel and Dalamatia City where the planet first library exists.

To find Dilmun/Babel just follow the Sphinx and you will find the 7 commands Pre Noahic times.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
Sevens8

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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
The bringing forth of the beginning where the end comes is the witness of the end times. Going back to the beginning for the future.

from various books

Jesus seemed to see the end from the beginning.
He "declares the end from the beginning"
The Universal Father sees the end from the beginning
He who was from the beginning
He comprehends the end from the beginning.

The Seven paths is from the Beginning.
.....................
(18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will come to pass." Jesus said, "Then have you laid bare the beginning, so that you are seeking the end? For the end will be where the beginning is. Blessed is the person who stands at rest in the beginning. And that person will be acquainted with the end and will not taste death."

[link to www.earlychristianwritings.com]

and music

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
urantia books are false. period, end of sentence
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Who cares?
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Praise Jesus!!!!!
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
To answer this question, one must be familiar with the Genesis epic, the book of Enoch, and the Nephilim. It is important to realize that during the time of Genesis and the hybrids called the Nephilim that sometimes it was difficult to know who was a hybrid and who was born of natural causes (birthed by a woman, conceived by a man).

Jesus is clarifying that He is a 'son of man'. And, why would God Himself refer to Himself as the 'son of Himself'?

He wouldn't.

Jesus is God.

FAQ:

What other evidences for Enoch's authenticity (as a sacred text) are there?

Why isn't it in the Bible today?

Jesus said that angels can't have sex, proving this book's falsehood...


The idea that Jesus said that angels cannot have sex is a very common objection to The Book of Enoch and the angelic understanding of Genesis 6 in general. However it is also a very common misinterpretation of what he actually said. Go Here to read what he said (Matt 22:30), and to study this topic. Beyond that misunderstanding, there is no doubt today that The Book of Enoch was one of the most widely accepted and revered books of Jewish culture and doctrine in the century leading up to Jesus' birth.

It is usually noted first that New Testament author Jude directly quotes from 1 Enoch - "Behold he comes with ten thousands of his saints to execute judgment ..." (1 Enoch 2, Jude 14-15). Additionally, "the citations of Enoch by the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs... show that at the close of the second century B.C., and during the first century B.C., this book was regarded in certain circles as inspired" (1).

Aside from Jude, Peter and Paul's affirmations of the angelic/hybrid interpretation, recognition of 1 Enoch "... is given amply in the Epistle of Barnabus, and in the third century by Clement and Irenaeus" (1). The Catholic Church's Origen - known as "the father of theology" - affirmed both the Book of Enoch and the fact that angels could and did co-habitate with the daughters of men. He even warned against possible angelic and/or Nephilim infiltration of the church itself. Oddly, while thousands of his writings are still considered by them as "sacred," this very issue got him labeled as a heretic when the faulty Sons of Seth "doctrine" was conceived! (2)

Additionally, the Coptic Orthodox Churches of Egypt (est'd appx 50-100 A.D.) still include Enoch as canonized text in the Ethiopic Old Testament (2). This fact alone should carry great weight for Western Christians when honestly studying the "case" for Enoch. Given their 1900+ year history, the fact that they were never "ruled" by Rome's theology, and that they currently number over 10 million - this is a VERY significant portion of The Body of Christ that has historically esteemed 1 Enoch as inspired doctrine.

Some today (who do not seem to believe in the inspiration of scripture) claim that most major themes of the New Testament were in fact "borrowed" from 1 Enoch. "It appears that Christianity later adopted some of its ideas and philosophies from this book, including the Final Judgment, the concept of demons, the Resurrection, and the coming of a Messiah and Messianic Kingdom" (3). No doubt, these themes are major parts of 1 Enoch, and appear there as complete theologies a full 200 years before any other NT writings.

Christian author Stephen Quayle writes, "Several centuries before and after the appearance of Jesus in Jerusalem, this book had become well known to the Jewish community, having a profound impact upon Jewish thought. The Book of Enoch gave the jewish people their solar calendar, and also appears to have instilled the idea that the coming Messiah would be someone who had pre-existed as God (4)." Translator RH Charles also stated that "the influence of 1 Enoch on the New Testament has been greater than all of the other apocryphal and pseudepigraphical books put together" (3). The conclusions are somewhat inescapable given Enoch's dating and wide acceptance between 200 B.C. and 200 A.D. - either Christian authors, and especially the Nicene Council, did plagiarize their theology directly from Enoch, or the original version of Enoch was also inspired.

James H Charlesworth, director of Dead Sea Studies at Yale University, says in The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha & The New Testament (Trinity Press International),
"I have no doubt that the Enoch groups deemed the Book of Enoch as fully inspired as any biblical book. I am also convinced that the group of jewish people behind the Temple Scroll, which is surely pre-Qumranic, would have judged it to be quintessential Torah -- that is, equal to, and perhaps better than, Deuteronomy....Then we should perceive the Pseudepigrapha as they were apparently judged to be: God's revelation to humans(2 & 5)."

But perhaps the most telling argument for 1 Enoch's "inspiration" may well be that the Jewish understanding of the term "Son of Man" as a Messianic title comes - not truly from our Old Testament canon - but from the Book of Enoch! Ever wonder why Jesus refers to himself in the gospels as the "Son of Man" rather than the Son of God? (2) Of over 100 uses of the phrase "son of man" in the OT, it refers almost always to "normal" men (93 times specifically of Ezekiel, and certainly not as Messiah!), but is used only one time in the entire OT, in one of Daniel's heavenly visions, to refer to divinity. Despite the Old Testament's frequent lack of divine application of the phrase, 1 Enoch records several trips to heaven, using the title "Son of Man" unceasingly to refer to the pre-incarnate Christ. Of particular Messianic significance, Enoch describes the following scene (2):

The angels "glorify with all their power of praise; and He sustains them in all that act of thanksgiving while they laud, glorify and exalt the name of the Lord of Spirits forever and ever... Great was their joy. They blessed, glorified and exalted because the name of the Son of Man was revealed to them (1 Enoch 68:35-38)." Both His disciples, and especially the Sanhedrein knew what Jesus was claiming - 84 times in the gospels! - when referring to Himself as the "Son of Man." This claim was considered an obvious blasphemy to the Pharisees & Saducees, but it is eternal life to all who confess that Jesus of Nazareth was, and is, the Son of Man, The Messiah, God in the flesh, The Holy One of Israel, God's Christ - the Lord of All to whom every knee shall bow (Philippians 2:8-10).

Using "normal rules" of scriptural interpretation, we are never to draw firm doctrine from only one passage of scripture. Right? Daniel's single use of "Son of Man" (in a "night vision" at that - Dan 7:13), would not be sufficient to claim that the phrase is indeed Messianic, especially given the other 107 times it is not used in that way. 1 Enoch is the missing "second witness" needed (according to all other rules of interpretation) to understand the phrase's double meaning as an enduring Messianic title. It has been argued ever since Enoch's first English translation, that by using this title so familiar to the jewish people, Jesus was actually affirming the truth of this book, that the prophet was taken on many trips to heaven before his "final" translation, and that HE WAS THE ONE whom Enoch saw there - the pre-existent Son of Man, whom Enoch prophesied would judge the souls of all men.

Interestingly, Daniel is ALSO the only OT use of the term "watcher" to ever refer to angels (Daniel 4:13, 17, 23 KJV). Strong's Concordance defines a watcher as a "guardian angel" (Strong's 5894). "The distinguishing character of the Watcher (opposed to other angels in the canon) appears to be that it spends much time among men, overseeing what they are doing. It is also interesting to note that both times one of these angels appeared to Daniel, he took pains to note that it was "an holy one," suggesting that some Watchers are not aligned with God while others are (4)." Found nowhere else in the OT canon but the book of Daniel, "watcher" is patently Enoch's term for these angels. Likewise, Daniel alone used Enoch's term "Son of Man" to refer to the pre-incarnate Christ, adding further intrigue to the case for 1 Enoch's inspiration, and an overall understanding of it's doctrinal acceptance among both Old and New Testament writers.

What we lose out on today by not examining 1 Enoch - even if only for its historical significance - is that it is actually more splendid than ANY OTHER book in our canon in its exultation of Christ as King! It also gives clear, stern and oft-repeated warnings to the unsaved of swift destruction at the Coming of The Lord, but is also full of amazing promises of future glory for the elect! We are of course wise to stay clear of dangerous heresy, but... ask yourself if the below sounds like false doctrine? Keep in mind, this was written at least 200 years before Christ walked the earth, and perhaps before Noah's birth:

Then shall the kings, the princes, and all who possess the earth, glorify Him who has dominion over all things, Him who was concealed; for from eternity the Son of Man was concealed, whom the Most High preserved in the presence of
His power and revealed to the elect.

He shall sow the congregation of the saints, and of the elect; and all the elect shall stand before Him in that day.
All the kings, the princes, the exalted, and those who rule
over the earth shall fall down on their faces before Him,
and shall worship Him. They shall fix their hopes on this Son of Man...

Then the sword of the Lord of Spirits shall be drunk from them (the lost); but the saints and the elect shall be safe in that day; nor the face of the sinners and the ungodly shall they thence-forth behold. The Lord of Spirits shall remain over them; And with this Son of Man shall they dwell, eat, lie down, and rise up for ever and ever...

Enoch 61:10-13


Literally Translated from the Ethiopic by Richard Laurence LL.D.
Archbishop of Cashel
Late Professor of Hebrew in the University of Oxford
 Quoting: Salt


Thread: The Book of Enoch, ETs, and the Church Coverup


There is a book in the Dead Sea Scrolls (and also the bible) that talks about how Lamech was not sure if his wife was pregnant from his own seed or was taken by one of the Watchers. (Lamech's son would be Noah). In the book in the Dead Sea Scrolls, he confronts his wife about it. She insists the unborn baby is Lamech's but Lamech doesn't believe her right away (even tho he wants to very much).




When Jesus says he is the 'son of man', He is clarifying that He was born of a woman.
 Quoting: Salt


Maybe, but I believe it originally meant 'human'. A human would be born of a woman. It's always been an oddity to me also. Son of man...look
anonymous
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10/29/2012 10:32 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Jesus was/is "son of man (physical) and Son of God (spiritual, eternal). He is indeed the 2nd Adam. He said "no man is good only my Father in heaven....".
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Because he was just a man, like the rest of us.

a good man, but just a man.

his message was you can be like me,

maybe skip being the martyr part, but he tried.

he tried
 Quoting: Skin Suit


Technically more than a man, because he had a higher 'christ' consciousness, which all can attain, but seldom do. He was anointed when the dove came down as the holy spirit. Anything is possible during that time. Healing, psyhic ability...it's like magic, but that energy is real. Even communing with the christ one on one.
Life and Love

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10/29/2012 10:42 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Who cares?
 Quoting: Frangas non Flectes


I am enjoying reading the OP's posts.

I am not enjoying the off-topic doctrinal food fight posts.
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
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10/29/2012 11:04 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
urantia books are false. period, end of sentence
 Quoting: Salt


I agree on the urantia, lol

Have you read the Nag hammadi? It says son of man and son of god a lot in there.

Son of man referring to humanity-adamas or pigeradamas.

Son of god referring to yaldebaoth, the gods that 'rule' or created this world.

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