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Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?

 
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 08:39 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Really? Did you mean to type "i am" as Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic didn't use capitals.

Firstly to believe that "i am" means GOD you have to accept & believe evil Moses as representing GOD.

Good luck with that, because then you have to believe that YOUR GOD agreed with infanticide, slavery, mass murder, ethnic cleansing, stoning and all the other ugly Moses laws.

Oh and not to forget Moses feeding women dust from the floor in holy water as a curse to test if they had been unfaithful and that would abort a baby if they had. I showed this on another thread but it is a very important verse so here it is again.

Numbers 5:16-22 (NIV) “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord."

Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water.

After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.

Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you.

But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”—

here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.

May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”


Once you agree to take Moses' view on things then you have to go against what Jesus taught. According to Moses GOD spoke directly to him.

And after that if you can accept GOD would agree with all that Moses said you have to deal with what Jesus said

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Is Moses of Jesus lying... Now which one is it?

But it gets even more complex.

Why did Jesus say this?

Matthew 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.

People read this line, grab it and pretend it aligns with the OT "i am who i am" line from Moses the terrible, BUT, and miss the key word… Abraham!

If Jesus had have said “before adam I am” then that would have put him before man.

BUT Abraham? Abraham is nowhere near the first in this alleged genealogy.

Something is definitely wrong, and believers just read over it as if it was nothing.

Jesus is saying he goes back to before Abraham… This is a crazy choice knowing as GOD he has to go back to Adam at least another 19 generations according to this site!

[link to www.abetterhope.com]

So how do believers miss this stuff? How do they believe in the attrocities of Moses as "from GOD" - afterall Moses said GOD said to do it!

And how do they accept "i am" as meaning so much when it is very peculiarly used in both cases?

I have much, much more but I'm not sure believers want to know the truth... It's easier to believe the Bible with all it's immense flaws and to not have to think.

lolsign
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


I noticed that no-one has attempted to address the queries I put in the above post.

Now of course you may be away researching about why Jesus would say Matthew 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am. and I would love to hear your responses.

BUT another problem for believers just came to mind.

When Jesus was baptised this happened

Matthew 3:16-17 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


This is GOD stating that Jesus is his son! Loudly and Clearly!

But interestingly Jesus didn't have the holy spirit within him prior to this event?

The question then needs to be asked. When did Jesus know he was the "Son of God"?

After this Jesus goes into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

This too has problems.

How does a being so low as Satan tempt GOD? And can GOD really be tempted?

Well according to the Bible the answer is yes and yet that is quite illogical.

The temptations

Bread for his hunger - Well I am sure GOD doesn't need bread.

Casting himself down - Well GOD can stop himself hitting the pavement, surely.

Now these first two are absurd but the last one is unbelievable.

All the kingdoms of the world - Jesus who knows he is at least the Son of GOD or GOD depending on who you believe already knows he owns all the kingdoms of the world. There is no temptation!

These are temptations thrown at GOD by Satan and are complete rubbish.

BUT

According to the Bible there was a time when Satan tempted GOD and GOD took the temptation.

It is in the story of JOB.

Job 1 6-12

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
(the temptation)

Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
(the acceptance of the temptation)

Now there are three massive problems with this story.

1. This suggests GOD actually does get tempted, and by his arch enemy Satan!

2. How many INNOCENT people suffer due to this EGO fight between GOD and Satan?

3. This story totally undermmines the omniscience of GOD!

Afterall, an omniscient GOD would have known the outcome of JOB being tested and no-one needed to suffer.

These things need to be considered by believers.

They simply don't make any sense. Any thoughts?
God Loves ALL

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11/01/2012 08:56 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
...


He didn't die on the Cross Salt. he was only in a coma. But it was intended that ones there believe he died, so he could get the hell out of that hell hole. His apostles knew he would NOT die. He told them and he revealed himself to them a few times and ascended into a craft and went to Damascus. He met Saul there about 2 years later. He then hid and went out of there and eventually to India.
 Quoting: God Loves ALL


the urantia book is false. period, end of sentence.
 Quoting: Salt


This information I placed is NOT from the Urantia book Salt. In fact they don't actively mention ESU at all who continued on. They at that time for safety did not acknowledge the rest of the story. If you had actually READ the UB you would not have made the above statement. You cannot judge that which you have not read.

This above is the direct teaching of JESUS NOW,(the ESU portion of "jesus", and you can read it here: [link to www.freewebs.com]
 Quoting: God Loves ALL


the Jesus you speak of is not the real Jesus. it is the counterfeit Jesus whom you continue to be deceived by.

at the core of your beliefs, you continue to negate the cross and the purpose for Jesus' death.

i'm sorry, but you are so immersed in deception it is almost tragic.

i wish i could help you.
 Quoting: Salt


salt, there is nothing counterfiet about Jesus, except the one in the bible what stories were changed to not be true. He was for example not pierced in the chest, that was somebody else. He did not ascend into heaven, that was changed. There is so much changed in the bible, that for all practical purposes the counterfeit Jesus is the one in the bible. He name was not even Jesus. He was called Immanuel by his apostles. And that name is from the OT, as to who was coming.

There were 4 people at the same time from the same planet incarnate inthat same region. One went on to Japan, causing confusion, they think Jesus is buried there. One is unknown. One was also killed on the cross and actually did die, and was pierced in the chest. The actual Jesus was pierced in the thigh and survived.

Just like you have not read the Urantia book and I assume have not read other material, and you do not currently actually know Jesus, the two who played the singular role, you cannot cope me down like this. I know of what i speak. He and I have given some material unknown to this planet even in any known writings from olden days. This stuff is ancient with much mistranslation and deliberate fraud. There is even a bit of that in the UB, man does such, changes things. Its the nature of a world like this.

THEY are RETURNED. I never pointed out the Capricorn this summer, its out of site again, one of the craft Esu is usually aboard.

Last Edited by God Loves ALL on 11/01/2012 09:06 PM
The actual Lord's Prayer Given by Jesus 2000 years ago.

"MY SPIRIT, YOU ARE OMNIPOTENT. YOUR NAME IS HOLY. MAY YOUR REALM BE INCARNATE IN ME. MAY YOUR POWER REVEAL ITSELF WITHIN ME, ON EARTH AND IN THE HEAVEN. GIVE ME TODAY MY DAILY BREAD, AND THUS, LET ME RECOGNIZE MY TRANSGRESSIONS AND ERRORS, AND I SHALL RECOGNIZE THE TRUTH. AND DO NOT LEAD ME INTO TEMPTATION AND CONFUSION, BUT DELIVER ME FROM ERROR. FOR YOURS IS THE REALM WITHIN ME AND THE POWER AND THE KNOWLEDGE FOREVER,
AMEN.

Nice video: [link to www.youtube.com] Make this World a Better One

Thread: Walter Russell Quotes Walter Russell thread
God Loves ALL

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11/01/2012 09:07 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
You seem to research older material. Is there anything published to study about the great works of Joseph of A in England/Europe after the crucifixion?
The actual Lord's Prayer Given by Jesus 2000 years ago.

"MY SPIRIT, YOU ARE OMNIPOTENT. YOUR NAME IS HOLY. MAY YOUR REALM BE INCARNATE IN ME. MAY YOUR POWER REVEAL ITSELF WITHIN ME, ON EARTH AND IN THE HEAVEN. GIVE ME TODAY MY DAILY BREAD, AND THUS, LET ME RECOGNIZE MY TRANSGRESSIONS AND ERRORS, AND I SHALL RECOGNIZE THE TRUTH. AND DO NOT LEAD ME INTO TEMPTATION AND CONFUSION, BUT DELIVER ME FROM ERROR. FOR YOURS IS THE REALM WITHIN ME AND THE POWER AND THE KNOWLEDGE FOREVER,
AMEN.

Nice video: [link to www.youtube.com] Make this World a Better One

Thread: Walter Russell Quotes Walter Russell thread
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 21291600
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11/01/2012 10:44 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
...


the urantia book is false. period, end of sentence.
 Quoting: Salt


This information I placed is NOT from the Urantia book Salt. In fact they don't actively mention ESU at all who continued on. They at that time for safety did not acknowledge the rest of the story. If you had actually READ the UB you would not have made the above statement. You cannot judge that which you have not read.

This above is the direct teaching of JESUS NOW,(the ESU portion of "jesus", and you can read it here: [link to www.freewebs.com]
 Quoting: God Loves ALL


the Jesus you speak of is not the real Jesus. it is the counterfeit Jesus whom you continue to be deceived by.

at the core of your beliefs, you continue to negate the cross and the purpose for Jesus' death.

i'm sorry, but you are so immersed in deception it is almost tragic.

i wish i could help you.
 Quoting: Salt


Salt, we wish to speak to you on matters which cant be disguised publically do you have a email? You have said things which only those intune can and if thou knoweth whom is asking you for your email then we have much to reveal.
 Quoting: Spiritoftruth 26530436


who is "we"?

give me your email and i will message you.
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 11:00 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Pretty simple really... Jesus came to serve man - not to be worshiped. No offense, but have you actually read the words of Jesus? Sounds like you have been brainwashed by religion.

Askrealjesus.com
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/01/2012 11:08 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Pretty simple really... Jesus came to serve man - not to be worshiped. No offense, but have you actually read the words of Jesus? Sounds like you have been brainwashed by religion.

Askrealjesus.com
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26822945


well, i am a seminary student, so i have to study the words of Jesus.
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 11:54 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
To answer this question, one must be familiar with the Genesis epic, the book of Enoch, and the Nephilim. It is important to realize that during the time of Genesis and the hybrids called the Nephilim that sometimes it was difficult to know who was a hybrid and who was born of natural causes (birthed by a woman, conceived by a man).

Jesus is clarifying that He is a 'son of man'. And, why would God Himself refer to Himself as the 'son of Himself'?

He wouldn't.

Jesus is God.

FAQ:

What other evidences for Enoch's authenticity (as a sacred text) are there?

Why isn't it in the Bible today?

Jesus said that angels can't have sex, proving this book's falsehood...


The idea that Jesus said that angels cannot have sex is a very common objection to The Book of Enoch and the angelic understanding of Genesis 6 in general. However it is also a very common misinterpretation of what he actually said. Go Here to read what he said (Matt 22:30), and to study this topic. Beyond that misunderstanding, there is no doubt today that The Book of Enoch was one of the most widely accepted and revered books of Jewish culture and doctrine in the century leading up to Jesus' birth.

It is usually noted first that New Testament author Jude directly quotes from 1 Enoch - "Behold he comes with ten thousands of his saints to execute judgment ..." (1 Enoch 2, Jude 14-15). Additionally, "the citations of Enoch by the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs... show that at the close of the second century B.C., and during the first century B.C., this book was regarded in certain circles as inspired" (1).

Aside from Jude, Peter and Paul's affirmations of the angelic/hybrid interpretation, recognition of 1 Enoch "... is given amply in the Epistle of Barnabus, and in the third century by Clement and Irenaeus" (1). The Catholic Church's Origen - known as "the father of theology" - affirmed both the Book of Enoch and the fact that angels could and did co-habitate with the daughters of men. He even warned against possible angelic and/or Nephilim infiltration of the church itself. Oddly, while thousands of his writings are still considered by them as "sacred," this very issue got him labeled as a heretic when the faulty Sons of Seth "doctrine" was conceived! (2)

Additionally, the Coptic Orthodox Churches of Egypt (est'd appx 50-100 A.D.) still include Enoch as canonized text in the Ethiopic Old Testament (2). This fact alone should carry great weight for Western Christians when honestly studying the "case" for Enoch. Given their 1900+ year history, the fact that they were never "ruled" by Rome's theology, and that they currently number over 10 million - this is a VERY significant portion of The Body of Christ that has historically esteemed 1 Enoch as inspired doctrine.

Some today (who do not seem to believe in the inspiration of scripture) claim that most major themes of the New Testament were in fact "borrowed" from 1 Enoch. "It appears that Christianity later adopted some of its ideas and philosophies from this book, including the Final Judgment, the concept of demons, the Resurrection, and the coming of a Messiah and Messianic Kingdom" (3). No doubt, these themes are major parts of 1 Enoch, and appear there as complete theologies a full 200 years before any other NT writings.

Christian author Stephen Quayle writes, "Several centuries before and after the appearance of Jesus in Jerusalem, this book had become well known to the Jewish community, having a profound impact upon Jewish thought. The Book of Enoch gave the jewish people their solar calendar, and also appears to have instilled the idea that the coming Messiah would be someone who had pre-existed as God (4)." Translator RH Charles also stated that "the influence of 1 Enoch on the New Testament has been greater than all of the other apocryphal and pseudepigraphical books put together" (3). The conclusions are somewhat inescapable given Enoch's dating and wide acceptance between 200 B.C. and 200 A.D. - either Christian authors, and especially the Nicene Council, did plagiarize their theology directly from Enoch, or the original version of Enoch was also inspired.

James H Charlesworth, director of Dead Sea Studies at Yale University, says in The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha & The New Testament (Trinity Press International),
"I have no doubt that the Enoch groups deemed the Book of Enoch as fully inspired as any biblical book. I am also convinced that the group of jewish people behind the Temple Scroll, which is surely pre-Qumranic, would have judged it to be quintessential Torah -- that is, equal to, and perhaps better than, Deuteronomy....Then we should perceive the Pseudepigrapha as they were apparently judged to be: God's revelation to humans(2 & 5)."

But perhaps the most telling argument for 1 Enoch's "inspiration" may well be that the Jewish understanding of the term "Son of Man" as a Messianic title comes - not truly from our Old Testament canon - but from the Book of Enoch! Ever wonder why Jesus refers to himself in the gospels as the "Son of Man" rather than the Son of God? (2) Of over 100 uses of the phrase "son of man" in the OT, it refers almost always to "normal" men (93 times specifically of Ezekiel, and certainly not as Messiah!), but is used only one time in the entire OT, in one of Daniel's heavenly visions, to refer to divinity. Despite the Old Testament's frequent lack of divine application of the phrase, 1 Enoch records several trips to heaven, using the title "Son of Man" unceasingly to refer to the pre-incarnate Christ. Of particular Messianic significance, Enoch describes the following scene (2):

The angels "glorify with all their power of praise; and He sustains them in all that act of thanksgiving while they laud, glorify and exalt the name of the Lord of Spirits forever and ever... Great was their joy. They blessed, glorified and exalted because the name of the Son of Man was revealed to them (1 Enoch 68:35-38)." Both His disciples, and especially the Sanhedrein knew what Jesus was claiming - 84 times in the gospels! - when referring to Himself as the "Son of Man." This claim was considered an obvious blasphemy to the Pharisees & Saducees, but it is eternal life to all who confess that Jesus of Nazareth was, and is, the Son of Man, The Messiah, God in the flesh, The Holy One of Israel, God's Christ - the Lord of All to whom every knee shall bow (Philippians 2:8-10).

Using "normal rules" of scriptural interpretation, we are never to draw firm doctrine from only one passage of scripture. Right? Daniel's single use of "Son of Man" (in a "night vision" at that - Dan 7:13), would not be sufficient to claim that the phrase is indeed Messianic, especially given the other 107 times it is not used in that way. 1 Enoch is the missing "second witness" needed (according to all other rules of interpretation) to understand the phrase's double meaning as an enduring Messianic title. It has been argued ever since Enoch's first English translation, that by using this title so familiar to the jewish people, Jesus was actually affirming the truth of this book, that the prophet was taken on many trips to heaven before his "final" translation, and that HE WAS THE ONE whom Enoch saw there - the pre-existent Son of Man, whom Enoch prophesied would judge the souls of all men.

Interestingly, Daniel is ALSO the only OT use of the term "watcher" to ever refer to angels (Daniel 4:13, 17, 23 KJV). Strong's Concordance defines a watcher as a "guardian angel" (Strong's 5894). "The distinguishing character of the Watcher (opposed to other angels in the canon) appears to be that it spends much time among men, overseeing what they are doing. It is also interesting to note that both times one of these angels appeared to Daniel, he took pains to note that it was "an holy one," suggesting that some Watchers are not aligned with God while others are (4)." Found nowhere else in the OT canon but the book of Daniel, "watcher" is patently Enoch's term for these angels. Likewise, Daniel alone used Enoch's term "Son of Man" to refer to the pre-incarnate Christ, adding further intrigue to the case for 1 Enoch's inspiration, and an overall understanding of it's doctrinal acceptance among both Old and New Testament writers.

What we lose out on today by not examining 1 Enoch - even if only for its historical significance - is that it is actually more splendid than ANY OTHER book in our canon in its exultation of Christ as King! It also gives clear, stern and oft-repeated warnings to the unsaved of swift destruction at the Coming of The Lord, but is also full of amazing promises of future glory for the elect! We are of course wise to stay clear of dangerous heresy, but... ask yourself if the below sounds like false doctrine? Keep in mind, this was written at least 200 years before Christ walked the earth, and perhaps before Noah's birth:

Then shall the kings, the princes, and all who possess the earth, glorify Him who has dominion over all things, Him who was concealed; for from eternity the Son of Man was concealed, whom the Most High preserved in the presence of
His power and revealed to the elect.

He shall sow the congregation of the saints, and of the elect; and all the elect shall stand before Him in that day.
All the kings, the princes, the exalted, and those who rule
over the earth shall fall down on their faces before Him,
and shall worship Him. They shall fix their hopes on this Son of Man...

Then the sword of the Lord of Spirits shall be drunk from them (the lost); but the saints and the elect shall be safe in that day; nor the face of the sinners and the ungodly shall they thence-forth behold. The Lord of Spirits shall remain over them; And with this Son of Man shall they dwell, eat, lie down, and rise up for ever and ever...

Enoch 61:10-13


Literally Translated from the Ethiopic by Richard Laurence LL.D.
Archbishop of Cashel
Late Professor of Hebrew in the University of Oxford
 Quoting: Salt


Thread: The Book of Enoch, ETs, and the Church Coverup


There is a book in the Dead Sea Scrolls (and also the bible) that talks about how Lamech was not sure if his wife was pregnant from his own seed or was taken by one of the Watchers. (Lamech's son would be Noah). In the book in the Dead Sea Scrolls, he confronts his wife about it. She insists the unborn baby is Lamech's but Lamech doesn't believe her right away (even tho he wants to very much).




When Jesus says he is the 'son of man', He is clarifying that He was born of a woman.
 Quoting: Salt


coz jesus not God Or son Of God he is a prophet like the other prophet of God. and the one who comes with ten thousands of his saints to execute judgment is the prophet mohammed when he retun to makkah and conquer it
Anonymous Coward
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11/02/2012 01:06 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Pretty simple really... Jesus came to serve man - not to be worshiped. No offense, but have you actually read the words of Jesus? Sounds like you have been brainwashed by religion.

Askrealjesus.com
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26822945


well, i am a seminary student, so i have to study the words of Jesus.
 Quoting: Salt


Hi Salt,

I didn't realise you are a seminary student. I should have picked up on it as I had typed something and then just knew I shouldn't leave it in the post. So I removed it.

Things work with me a bit that way.

The detailed thinking and study for me spans many years. When I study, the things that just don't make sense leap off the page at me. I was brought up on traditional Christian thinking BUT it just never rang true enough for me to believe it. So much of what is taught undermines God's omnipotence, omnipresence & omniscience.

In fact people are so busy defending the Bible (the book) and man's teachings that they forget to study the Bible.

I don't want to confuse your studies with what I have discovered as that would be unfair.

All I want people to do is study correctly and as your signature says look at all things. Sadly that is not what happens.

I wish you all the best with your studies.
Anonymous Coward
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11/02/2012 01:11 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
...


This information I placed is NOT from the Urantia book Salt. In fact they don't actively mention ESU at all who continued on. They at that time for safety did not acknowledge the rest of the story. If you had actually READ the UB you would not have made the above statement. You cannot judge that which you have not read.

This above is the direct teaching of JESUS NOW,(the ESU portion of "jesus", and you can read it here: [link to www.freewebs.com]
 Quoting: God Loves ALL


the Jesus you speak of is not the real Jesus. it is the counterfeit Jesus whom you continue to be deceived by.

at the core of your beliefs, you continue to negate the cross and the purpose for Jesus' death.

i'm sorry, but you are so immersed in deception it is almost tragic.

i wish i could help you.
 Quoting: Salt


Salt, we wish to speak to you on matters which cant be disguised publically do you have a email? You have said things which only those intune can and if thou knoweth whom is asking you for your email then we have much to reveal.
 Quoting: Spiritoftruth 26530436


who is "we"?

give me your email and i will message you.
 Quoting: Salt


Oh Oh a secret society. Be wary Salt!

What can't be disguised (discussed) publicly Spiritoftruth 26530436?

By you not discussing it you are disguising it publicly...

1rof1
spiritoftruth
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11/02/2012 02:09 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
...


This information I placed is NOT from the Urantia book Salt. In fact they don't actively mention ESU at all who continued on. They at that time for safety did not acknowledge the rest of the story. If you had actually READ the UB you would not have made the above statement. You cannot judge that which you have not read.

This above is the direct teaching of JESUS NOW,(the ESU portion of "jesus", and you can read it here: [link to www.freewebs.com]
 Quoting: God Loves ALL


the Jesus you speak of is not the real Jesus. it is the counterfeit Jesus whom you continue to be deceived by.

at the core of your beliefs, you continue to negate the cross and the purpose for Jesus' death.

i'm sorry, but you are so immersed in deception it is almost tragic.

i wish i could help you.
 Quoting: Salt


Salt, we wish to speak to you on matters which cant be disguised publically do you have a email? You have said things which only those intune can and if thou knoweth whom is asking you for your email then we have much to reveal.
 Quoting: Spiritoftruth 26530436


who is "we"?

give me your email and i will message you.
 Quoting: Salt


Do you have means to privately msg you the email? The things we wish to speak about are sacred. What thou knoweth of the two tribes? Read my postings and see how feel from it from links given.
Spiritoftruth
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11/02/2012 02:10 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
...


This information I placed is NOT from the Urantia book Salt. In fact they don't actively mention ESU at all who continued on. They at that time for safety did not acknowledge the rest of the story. If you had actually READ the UB you would not have made the above statement. You cannot judge that which you have not read.

This above is the direct teaching of JESUS NOW,(the ESU portion of "jesus", and you can read it here: [link to www.freewebs.com]
 Quoting: God Loves ALL


the Jesus you speak of is not the real Jesus. it is the counterfeit Jesus whom you continue to be deceived by.

at the core of your beliefs, you continue to negate the cross and the purpose for Jesus' death.

i'm sorry, but you are so immersed in deception it is almost tragic.

i wish i could help you.
 Quoting: Salt


Salt, we wish to speak to you on matters which cant be disguised publically do you have a email? You have said things which only those intune can and if thou knoweth whom is asking you for your email then we have much to reveal.
 Quoting: Spiritoftruth 26530436


who is "we"?

give me your email and i will message you.
 Quoting: Salt


I am not alone and do not speak on my own, for the greater has always been with the lesser the mystery to be revealed in the day of thunder and lightning.
Anonymous Coward
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11/02/2012 07:57 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Spiritoftruth... teach me the truth.

You are being all secretive and mysterious - sort of like a secret agent for GOD...lol

I've seen on one of your threads that Elijah, Moses and Jesus will come together for the end times.

But as I have shown many times Moses was not a good man.

Are you members oh The True Jesus Organization?

I am willing to learn... but why must it be secret?

You can't blame mankind for it's failings if you have all these secrets and don't explain things intelligibly.
spiritoftruth
User ID: 26530436
Australia
11/02/2012 08:44 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Spiritoftruth... teach me the truth.

You are being all secretive and mysterious - sort of like a secret agent for GOD...lol

I've seen on one of your threads that Elijah, Moses and Jesus will come together for the end times.

But as I have shown many times Moses was not a good man.

Are you members oh The True Jesus Organization?

I am willing to learn... but why must it be secret?

You can't blame mankind for it's failings if you have all these secrets and don't explain things intelligibly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


man can not understand the things of man how be it they understand the things of heaven? What do you seek to know I reveal only that which is written to be revealed...
Spiritoftruth
User ID: 26530436
Australia
11/02/2012 09:22 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Really? Did you mean to type "i am" as Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic didn't use capitals.

Firstly to believe that "i am" means GOD you have to accept & believe evil Moses as representing GOD.

Good luck with that, because then you have to believe that YOUR GOD agreed with infanticide, slavery, mass murder, ethnic cleansing, stoning and all the other ugly Moses laws.

Oh and not to forget Moses feeding women dust from the floor in holy water as a curse to test if they had been unfaithful and that would abort a baby if they had. I showed this on another thread but it is a very important verse so here it is again.

Numbers 5:16-22 (NIV) “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord."

Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water.

After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.

Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you.

But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”—

here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.

May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”


Once you agree to take Moses' view on things then you have to go against what Jesus taught. According to Moses GOD spoke directly to him.

And after that if you can accept GOD would agree with all that Moses said you have to deal with what Jesus said

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Is Moses of Jesus lying... Now which one is it?

But it gets even more complex.

Why did Jesus say this?

Matthew 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.

People read this line, grab it and pretend it aligns with the OT "i am who i am" line from Moses the terrible, BUT, and miss the key word… Abraham!

If Jesus had have said “before adam I am” then that would have put him before man.

BUT Abraham? Abraham is nowhere near the first in this alleged genealogy.

Something is definitely wrong, and believers just read over it as if it was nothing.

Jesus is saying he goes back to before Abraham… This is a crazy choice knowing as GOD he has to go back to Adam at least another 19 generations according to this site!

[link to www.abetterhope.com]

So how do believers miss this stuff? How do they believe in the attrocities of Moses as "from GOD" - afterall Moses said GOD said to do it!

And how do they accept "i am" as meaning so much when it is very peculiarly used in both cases?

I have much, much more but I'm not sure believers want to know the truth... It's easier to believe the Bible with all it's immense flaws and to not have to think.

lolsign
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


I noticed that no-one has attempted to address the queries I put in the above post.

Now of course you may be away researching about why Jesus would say Matthew 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am. and I would love to hear your responses.

BUT another problem for believers just came to mind.

When Jesus was baptised this happened

Matthew 3:16-17 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


This is GOD stating that Jesus is his son! Loudly and Clearly!

But interestingly Jesus didn't have the holy spirit within him prior to this event?

The question then needs to be asked. When did Jesus know he was the "Son of God"?

After this Jesus goes into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

This too has problems.

How does a being so low as Satan tempt GOD? And can GOD really be tempted?

Well according to the Bible the answer is yes and yet that is quite illogical.

The temptations

Bread for his hunger - Well I am sure GOD doesn't need bread.

Casting himself down - Well GOD can stop himself hitting the pavement, surely.

Now these first two are absurd but the last one is unbelievable.

All the kingdoms of the world - Jesus who knows he is at least the Son of GOD or GOD depending on who you believe already knows he owns all the kingdoms of the world. There is no temptation!

These are temptations thrown at GOD by Satan and are complete rubbish.

BUT

According to the Bible there was a time when Satan tempted GOD and GOD took the temptation.

It is in the story of JOB.

Job 1 6-12

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
(the temptation)

Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
(the acceptance of the temptation)

Now there are three massive problems with this story.

1. This suggests GOD actually does get tempted, and by his arch enemy Satan!

2. How many INNOCENT people suffer due to this EGO fight between GOD and Satan?

3. This story totally undermmines the omniscience of GOD!

Afterall, an omniscient GOD would have known the outcome of JOB being tested and no-one needed to suffer.

These things need to be considered by believers.

They simply don't make any sense. Any thoughts?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


God can not do anything that is in contradiction to what is good, this is how thou shall know what is from God which is good and what was altered through Satan which is evil, for scriptures contain also deceptions as well and it takes the eye of beholder to know which is which.

Behold the story of job as it written and interpeted by man is deception, there was no event of Satan making a bet with God.
Goofy for God
Do everything with love

User ID: 16845676
United States
11/02/2012 09:33 AM

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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Let me give a common understanding and then a more sophisticated historical understanding.

[link to www.christianity.com]

hf

He was a son of man, that is, a human being. And he is the Son of God, in that he has always existed as the Eternally Begotten One who comes forth from the Father forever. He always has, and he always will. He is the Second Person of the Trinity with all of the divine nature fully in him.

Last Edited by Goofy for God on 11/02/2012 09:33 AM
Proverbs 15:1
A soft answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
11/02/2012 09:40 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Spiritoftruth... teach me the truth.

You are being all secretive and mysterious - sort of like a secret agent for GOD...lol

I've seen on one of your threads that Elijah, Moses and Jesus will come together for the end times.

But as I have shown many times Moses was not a good man.

Are you members oh The True Jesus Organization?

I am willing to learn... but why must it be secret?

You can't blame mankind for it's failings if you have all these secrets and don't explain things intelligibly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


man can not understand the things of man how be it they understand the things of heaven? What do you seek to know I reveal only that which is written to be revealed...
 Quoting: spiritoftruth 26530436


Well reveal to me that which is written to be revealed. See you now have a blank canvas start writing!

You said I can't understand the trinity and yet I can... I can see that if you look at it only on the surface it is very appealing BUT it is contradicted by Jesus' teachings as well.

Do you consider yourself a star seed or a divine being?

Why do you pretend to come from Australia when you don't?

Why all the secrecy?

Do you know God Loves All?

I have read some of your posts and they are very imprecise... Do you have a website or know of one that explains things better?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26787355
United Kingdom
11/02/2012 09:46 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
2. How many INNOCENT people suffer due to this EGO fight between GOD and Satan?

You think thats god? lol

Tell Venus to stop eating mars ego lol


[link to greatmindsoftoday.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26787355
United Kingdom
11/02/2012 09:46 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
2. How many INNOCENT people suffer due to this EGO fight between GOD and Satan?

You think thats god? lol

Tell Venus to stop eating mars ego lol


[link to greatmindsoftoday.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
11/02/2012 09:47 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Really? Did you mean to type "i am" as Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic didn't use capitals.

Firstly to believe that "i am" means GOD you have to accept & believe evil Moses as representing GOD.

Good luck with that, because then you have to believe that YOUR GOD agreed with infanticide, slavery, mass murder, ethnic cleansing, stoning and all the other ugly Moses laws.

Oh and not to forget Moses feeding women dust from the floor in holy water as a curse to test if they had been unfaithful and that would abort a baby if they had. I showed this on another thread but it is a very important verse so here it is again.

Numbers 5:16-22 (NIV) “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord."

Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water.

After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.

Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you.

But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”—

here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.

May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”


Once you agree to take Moses' view on things then you have to go against what Jesus taught. According to Moses GOD spoke directly to him.

And after that if you can accept GOD would agree with all that Moses said you have to deal with what Jesus said

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Is Moses of Jesus lying... Now which one is it?

But it gets even more complex.

Why did Jesus say this?

Matthew 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.

People read this line, grab it and pretend it aligns with the OT "i am who i am" line from Moses the terrible, BUT, and miss the key word… Abraham!

If Jesus had have said “before adam I am” then that would have put him before man.

BUT Abraham? Abraham is nowhere near the first in this alleged genealogy.

Something is definitely wrong, and believers just read over it as if it was nothing.

Jesus is saying he goes back to before Abraham… This is a crazy choice knowing as GOD he has to go back to Adam at least another 19 generations according to this site!

[link to www.abetterhope.com]

So how do believers miss this stuff? How do they believe in the attrocities of Moses as "from GOD" - afterall Moses said GOD said to do it!

And how do they accept "i am" as meaning so much when it is very peculiarly used in both cases?

I have much, much more but I'm not sure believers want to know the truth... It's easier to believe the Bible with all it's immense flaws and to not have to think.

lolsign
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


I noticed that no-one has attempted to address the queries I put in the above post.

Now of course you may be away researching about why Jesus would say Matthew 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am. and I would love to hear your responses.

BUT another problem for believers just came to mind.

When Jesus was baptised this happened

Matthew 3:16-17 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


This is GOD stating that Jesus is his son! Loudly and Clearly!

But interestingly Jesus didn't have the holy spirit within him prior to this event?

The question then needs to be asked. When did Jesus know he was the "Son of God"?

After this Jesus goes into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

This too has problems.

How does a being so low as Satan tempt GOD? And can GOD really be tempted?

Well according to the Bible the answer is yes and yet that is quite illogical.

The temptations

Bread for his hunger - Well I am sure GOD doesn't need bread.

Casting himself down - Well GOD can stop himself hitting the pavement, surely.

Now these first two are absurd but the last one is unbelievable.

All the kingdoms of the world - Jesus who knows he is at least the Son of GOD or GOD depending on who you believe already knows he owns all the kingdoms of the world. There is no temptation!

These are temptations thrown at GOD by Satan and are complete rubbish.

BUT

According to the Bible there was a time when Satan tempted GOD and GOD took the temptation.

It is in the story of JOB.

Job 1 6-12

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
(the temptation)

Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
(the acceptance of the temptation)

Now there are three massive problems with this story.

1. This suggests GOD actually does get tempted, and by his arch enemy Satan!

2. How many INNOCENT people suffer due to this EGO fight between GOD and Satan?

3. This story totally undermmines the omniscience of GOD!

Afterall, an omniscient GOD would have known the outcome of JOB being tested and no-one needed to suffer.

These things need to be considered by believers.

They simply don't make any sense. Any thoughts?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


God can not do anything that is in contradiction to what is good, this is how thou shall know what is from God which is good and what was altered through Satan which is evil, for scriptures contain also deceptions as well and it takes the eye of beholder to know which is which.

Behold the story of job as it written and interpeted by man is deception, there was no event of Satan making a bet with God.
 Quoting: Spiritoftruth 26530436


See this makes sense Spiritoftruth - People are always saying GOD is perfect and yet all the lessons they teach show imperfection.

I am very tough on Moses because he did so many horrendous things that undermine the concept of a loving, perfect GOD.

I want to break open the Bible and sort the charf from the wheat to know the truth.

As I have said elsewhere... My test is that of Omniscience... If something undermines the omniscience of GOD then it can't be true!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26787355
United Kingdom
11/02/2012 09:48 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Let me give a common understanding and then a more sophisticated historical understanding.

[link to www.christianity.com]

hf

He was a son of man, that is, a human being. And he is the Son of God, in that he has always existed as the Eternally Begotten One who comes forth from the Father forever. He always has, and he always will. He is the Second Person of the Trinity with all of the divine nature fully in him.
 Quoting: Goofy for God


...:)

[link to farm4.static.flickr.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 21291600
United States
11/02/2012 09:49 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
...


the Jesus you speak of is not the real Jesus. it is the counterfeit Jesus whom you continue to be deceived by.

at the core of your beliefs, you continue to negate the cross and the purpose for Jesus' death.

i'm sorry, but you are so immersed in deception it is almost tragic.

i wish i could help you.
 Quoting: Salt


Salt, we wish to speak to you on matters which cant be disguised publically do you have a email? You have said things which only those intune can and if thou knoweth whom is asking you for your email then we have much to reveal.
 Quoting: Spiritoftruth 26530436


who is "we"?

give me your email and i will message you.
 Quoting: Salt


Do you have means to privately msg you the email? The things we wish to speak about are sacred. What thou knoweth of the two tribes? Read my postings and see how feel from it from links given.
 Quoting: spiritoftruth 26530436


um, at this point the only way you will be able to msg me is to set up an account here at GLP.

FYI, people who say "ye", "thee" and "knoweth" in normal conversation give me the creeps
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
11/02/2012 09:51 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
2. How many INNOCENT people suffer due to this EGO fight between GOD and Satan?

You think thats god? lol

Tell Venus to stop eating mars ego lol


[link to greatmindsoftoday.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26787355



I think the story in Job is a load of garbage. So no of course I don't think that is GOD.

But tell that to believers it appears they worship the dusty old book more than GOD.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26797763
Ireland
11/02/2012 10:03 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Really? Did you mean to type "i am" as Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic didn't use capitals.

Firstly to believe that "i am" means GOD you have to accept & believe evil Moses as representing GOD.

Good luck with that, because then you have to believe that YOUR GOD agreed with infanticide, slavery, mass murder, ethnic cleansing, stoning and all the other ugly Moses laws.

Oh and not to forget Moses feeding women dust from the floor in holy water as a curse to test if they had been unfaithful and that would abort a baby if they had. I showed this on another thread but it is a very important verse so here it is again.

Numbers 5:16-22 (NIV) “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord."

Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water.

After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.

Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you.

But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”—

here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.

May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”


Once you agree to take Moses' view on things then you have to go against what Jesus taught. According to Moses GOD spoke directly to him.

And after that if you can accept GOD would agree with all that Moses said you have to deal with what Jesus said

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Is Moses of Jesus lying... Now which one is it?

But it gets even more complex.

Why did Jesus say this?

Matthew 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.

People read this line, grab it and pretend it aligns with the OT "i am who i am" line from Moses the terrible, BUT, and miss the key word… Abraham!

If Jesus had have said “before adam I am” then that would have put him before man.

BUT Abraham? Abraham is nowhere near the first in this alleged genealogy.

Something is definitely wrong, and believers just read over it as if it was nothing.

Jesus is saying he goes back to before Abraham… This is a crazy choice knowing as GOD he has to go back to Adam at least another 19 generations according to this site!

[link to www.abetterhope.com]

So how do believers miss this stuff? How do they believe in the attrocities of Moses as "from GOD" - afterall Moses said GOD said to do it!

And how do they accept "i am" as meaning so much when it is very peculiarly used in both cases?

I have much, much more but I'm not sure believers want to know the truth... It's easier to believe the Bible with all it's immense flaws and to not have to think.

lolsign
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


I noticed that no-one has attempted to address the queries I put in the above post.

Now of course you may be away researching about why Jesus would say Matthew 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am. and I would love to hear your responses.

BUT another problem for believers just came to mind.

When Jesus was baptised this happened

Matthew 3:16-17 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


This is GOD stating that Jesus is his son! Loudly and Clearly!

But interestingly Jesus didn't have the holy spirit within him prior to this event?

The question then needs to be asked. When did Jesus know he was the "Son of God"?

After this Jesus goes into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

This too has problems.

How does a being so low as Satan tempt GOD? And can GOD really be tempted?

Well according to the Bible the answer is yes and yet that is quite illogical.

The temptations

Bread for his hunger - Well I am sure GOD doesn't need bread.

Casting himself down - Well GOD can stop himself hitting the pavement, surely.

Now these first two are absurd but the last one is unbelievable.

All the kingdoms of the world - Jesus who knows he is at least the Son of GOD or GOD depending on who you believe already knows he owns all the kingdoms of the world. There is no temptation!

These are temptations thrown at GOD by Satan and are complete rubbish.

BUT

According to the Bible there was a time when Satan tempted GOD and GOD took the temptation.

It is in the story of JOB.

Job 1 6-12

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
(the temptation)

Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
(the acceptance of the temptation)

Now there are three massive problems with this story.

1. This suggests GOD actually does get tempted, and by his arch enemy Satan!

2. How many INNOCENT people suffer due to this EGO fight between GOD and Satan?

3. This story totally undermmines the omniscience of GOD!

Afterall, an omniscient GOD would have known the outcome of JOB being tested and no-one needed to suffer.

These things need to be considered by believers.

They simply don't make any sense. Any thoughts?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


God can not do anything that is in contradiction to what is good, this is how thou shall know what is from God which is good and what was altered through Satan which is evil, for scriptures contain also deceptions as well and it takes the eye of beholder to know which is which.

Behold the story of job as it written and interpeted by man is deception, there was no event of Satan making a bet with God.
 Quoting: Spiritoftruth 26530436


See this makes sense Spiritoftruth - People are always saying GOD is perfect and yet all the lessons they teach show imperfection.

I am very tough on Moses because he did so many horrendous things that undermine the concept of a loving, perfect GOD.

I want to break open the Bible and sort the charf from the wheat to know the truth.

As I have said elsewhere... My test is that of Omniscience... If something undermines the omniscience of GOD then it can't be true!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


You claim to follow Yeshua and reject Moses yet Yeshua was in perfect union with Moses. Moses was only the Prophet of God, bringing the people the holy law of God, the Torah. You are seriously erring to the right and to the left. The scriptures are our foundation and without the old, there would be no new testament since the two are interwoven.

Here is some verses showing that Yeshua was pro-Moses and fully accepted him.


Matthew 23:2-3


23 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. Matthew 19:8

And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Matthew 17:3


I will pray for you Brother.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26787355
United Kingdom
11/02/2012 10:08 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
2. How many INNOCENT people suffer due to this EGO fight between GOD and Satan?

You think thats god? lol

Tell Venus to stop eating mars ego lol


[link to greatmindsoftoday.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26787355



I think the story in Job is a load of garbage. So no of course I don't think that is GOD.

But tell that to believers it appears they worship the dusty old book more than GOD.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


They say a picture is worth a thousand words... :)


[link to ldmart315.edublogs.org]
Spiritoftruth
User ID: 26530436
Australia
11/02/2012 10:11 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Really? Did you mean to type "i am" as Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic didn't use capitals.

Firstly to believe that "i am" means GOD you have to accept & believe evil Moses as representing GOD.

Good luck with that, because then you have to believe that YOUR GOD agreed with infanticide, slavery, mass murder, ethnic cleansing, stoning and all the other ugly Moses laws.

Oh and not to forget Moses feeding women dust from the floor in holy water as a curse to test if they had been unfaithful and that would abort a baby if they had. I showed this on another thread but it is a very important verse so here it is again.

Numbers 5:16-22 (NIV) “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord."

Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water.

After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.

Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you.

But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”—

here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.

May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”


Once you agree to take Moses' view on things then you have to go against what Jesus taught. According to Moses GOD spoke directly to him.

And after that if you can accept GOD would agree with all that Moses said you have to deal with what Jesus said

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Is Moses of Jesus lying... Now which one is it?

But it gets even more complex.

Why did Jesus say this?

Matthew 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.

People read this line, grab it and pretend it aligns with the OT "i am who i am" line from Moses the terrible, BUT, and miss the key word… Abraham!

If Jesus had have said “before adam I am” then that would have put him before man.

BUT Abraham? Abraham is nowhere near the first in this alleged genealogy.

Something is definitely wrong, and believers just read over it as if it was nothing.

Jesus is saying he goes back to before Abraham… This is a crazy choice knowing as GOD he has to go back to Adam at least another 19 generations according to this site!

[link to www.abetterhope.com]

So how do believers miss this stuff? How do they believe in the attrocities of Moses as "from GOD" - afterall Moses said GOD said to do it!

And how do they accept "i am" as meaning so much when it is very peculiarly used in both cases?

I have much, much more but I'm not sure believers want to know the truth... It's easier to believe the Bible with all it's immense flaws and to not have to think.

lolsign
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


I noticed that no-one has attempted to address the queries I put in the above post.

Now of course you may be away researching about why Jesus would say Matthew 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am. and I would love to hear your responses.

BUT another problem for believers just came to mind.

When Jesus was baptised this happened

Matthew 3:16-17 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


This is GOD stating that Jesus is his son! Loudly and Clearly!

But interestingly Jesus didn't have the holy spirit within him prior to this event?

The question then needs to be asked. When did Jesus know he was the "Son of God"?

After this Jesus goes into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

This too has problems.

How does a being so low as Satan tempt GOD? And can GOD really be tempted?

Well according to the Bible the answer is yes and yet that is quite illogical.

The temptations

Bread for his hunger - Well I am sure GOD doesn't need bread.

Casting himself down - Well GOD can stop himself hitting the pavement, surely.

Now these first two are absurd but the last one is unbelievable.

All the kingdoms of the world - Jesus who knows he is at least the Son of GOD or GOD depending on who you believe already knows he owns all the kingdoms of the world. There is no temptation!

These are temptations thrown at GOD by Satan and are complete rubbish.

BUT

According to the Bible there was a time when Satan tempted GOD and GOD took the temptation.

It is in the story of JOB.

Job 1 6-12

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
(the temptation)

Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
(the acceptance of the temptation)

Now there are three massive problems with this story.

1. This suggests GOD actually does get tempted, and by his arch enemy Satan!

2. How many INNOCENT people suffer due to this EGO fight between GOD and Satan?

3. This story totally undermmines the omniscience of GOD!

Afterall, an omniscient GOD would have known the outcome of JOB being tested and no-one needed to suffer.

These things need to be considered by believers.

They simply don't make any sense. Any thoughts?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


God can not do anything that is in contradiction to what is good, this is how thou shall know what is from God which is good and what was altered through Satan which is evil, for scriptures contain also deceptions as well and it takes the eye of beholder to know which is which.

Behold the story of job as it written and interpeted by man is deception, there was no event of Satan making a bet with God.
 Quoting: Spiritoftruth 26530436


See this makes sense Spiritoftruth - People are always saying GOD is perfect and yet all the lessons they teach show imperfection.

I am very tough on Moses because he did so many horrendous things that undermine the concept of a loving, perfect GOD.

I want to break open the Bible and sort the charf from the wheat to know the truth.

As I have said elsewhere... My test is that of Omniscience... If something undermines the omniscience of GOD then it can't be true!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


It is not God but Satan which brings destruction, Gods wrath is simply to step aside and let justice occur as it must by eternal law.
Spirtoftruth
User ID: 26530436
Australia
11/02/2012 10:18 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Spiritoftruth... teach me the truth.

You are being all secretive and mysterious - sort of like a secret agent for GOD...lol

I've seen on one of your threads that Elijah, Moses and Jesus will come together for the end times.

But as I have shown many times Moses was not a good man.

Are you members oh The True Jesus Organization?

I am willing to learn... but why must it be secret?

You can't blame mankind for it's failings if you have all these secrets and don't explain things intelligibly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


man can not understand the things of man how be it they understand the things of heaven? What do you seek to know I reveal only that which is written to be revealed...
 Quoting: spiritoftruth 26530436


Well reveal to me that which is written to be revealed. See you now have a blank canvas start writing!

You said I can't understand the trinity and yet I can... I can see that if you look at it only on the surface it is very appealing BUT it is contradicted by Jesus' teachings as well.

Do you consider yourself a star seed or a divine being?

Why do you pretend to come from Australia when you don't?

Why all the secrecy?

Do you know God Loves All?

I have read some of your posts and they are very imprecise... Do you have a website or know of one that explains things better?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


A flower to grow must be given sunlight and water and time in seasons to develop. Patience is a virtue that is required to gain truth.

Starseed concept flawed, divine begin as understand from many other sources flawed. Man is fallen spirits bound in the realms of darkness destined for eternal condemnation, God is the intervention which came to give opportunity to change eternal outcome. It is known by God whom shall accept offer and whom continues unto their rightful condemnation.

That which I speak is given so as the reader interpets based on their spirits. Not all shall know the deeper meaning of what is said, some spirits are not good enough to recieve the light of truth for they be more evil in state.

I reside in Australia.
niphtrique

User ID: 14748444
Netherlands
11/02/2012 10:24 AM

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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
It is not easy to make sense of religion.
The Plan for the Future: [link to www.naturalmoney.org]
Blitz the storm-striker

User ID: 26761074
Canada
11/02/2012 10:33 AM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
It is not easy to make sense of religion.
 Quoting: niphtrique


relig - ion

spiritual - ity

ion = action causing external change either it is controled or not, willfull or not.

ity = Reality. not an action but rather a sensation. an action is the result of a perception. a reality is a sense of perception.
To live is to believe in the power of dreams! To dream is to believe in the power of love! To love is to Know the truth!
The Desire to Be fuel the belief that you Are which ignite the Will to Become which bring back forth the desire to be...
Let it be-come you! It means Stop seeking your higher self! It is seeking you! Stand still in your mind to calm the waters of your mind and then it shall find you, so you can ride those waves together!
your true self lies somewhere between your heart and your consciousness. It is called the heart consciousness,which is the creator, which is you!
The heart create the emotions and our mind evoke its purpose, from which we dream the life we live in order to imagine the nature of reality and finally remember love!

The highest Purpose of our mind is the ability to Forget! Go on and Forgive yourself!
There is no love in truth but there is truth in love!
Be authentic, nobody else can do it for you!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26854594
United States
11/02/2012 12:34 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Pretty simple really... Jesus came to serve man - not to be worshiped. No offense, but have you actually read the words of Jesus? Sounds like you have been brainwashed by religion.

Askrealjesus.com
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26822945


well, i am a seminary student, so i have to study the words of Jesus.
 Quoting: Salt


AC was right on it, seminary = brainwashing.

I just don't get you people that try to connect to the Creator via MAN !!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 21291600
United States
11/02/2012 02:57 PM
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Re: Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?
Pretty simple really... Jesus came to serve man - not to be worshiped. No offense, but have you actually read the words of Jesus? Sounds like you have been brainwashed by religion.

Askrealjesus.com
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26822945


well, i am a seminary student, so i have to study the words of Jesus.
 Quoting: Salt


AC was right on it, seminary = brainwashing.

I just don't get you people that try to connect to the Creator via MAN !!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26854594


how do you know? have you been to seminary training?
do you know what type of classes are taught?

really ignorant statement. really ignorant.

maybe in catholic seminary there is brainwashing. there would have to be in order to teach such a twisted version of scripture.

but, i am in protestant seminary.

hint: there are tons of history classes at seminary. tons.

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