Why does Jesus refer to Himself as the "son of man" and not the "son of God"?

This information I placed is NOT from the Urantia book Salt. In fact they don't actively mention ESU at all who continued on. They at that time for safety did not acknowledge the rest of the story. If you had actually READ the UB you would not have made the above statement. You cannot judge that which you have not read.

This above is the direct teaching of JESUS NOW,(the ESU portion of "jesus", and you can read it here: [link to www.freewebs.com]

the Jesus you speak of is not the real Jesus. it is the counterfeit Jesus whom you continue to be deceived by.

at the core of your beliefs, you continue to negate the cross and the purpose for Jesus' death.

i'm sorry, but you are so immersed in deception it is almost tragic.

i wish i could help you.

FAQ:

What other evidences for Enoch's authenticity (as a sacred text) are there?

Why isn't it in the Bible today?

Jesus said that angels can't have sex, proving this book's falsehood...

The idea that Jesus said that angels cannot have sex is a very common objection to The Book of Enoch and the angelic understanding of Genesis 6 in general. However it is also a very common misinterpretation of what he actually said. Go Here to read what he said (Matt 22:30), and to study this topic. Beyond that misunderstanding, there is no doubt today that The Book of Enoch was one of the most widely accepted and revered books of Jewish culture and doctrine in the century leading up to Jesus' birth.

It is usually noted first that New Testament author Jude directly quotes from 1 Enoch - "Behold he comes with ten thousands of his saints to execute judgment ..." (1 Enoch 2, Jude 14-15). Additionally, "the citations of Enoch by the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs... show that at the close of the second century B.C., and during the first century B.C., this book was regarded in certain circles as inspired" (1).

Aside from Jude, Peter and Paul's affirmations of the angelic/hybrid interpretation, recognition of 1 Enoch "... is given amply in the Epistle of Barnabus, and in the third century by Clement and Irenaeus" (1). The Catholic Church's Origen - known as "the father of theology" - affirmed both the Book of Enoch and the fact that angels could and did co-habitate with the daughters of men. He even warned against possible angelic and/or Nephilim infiltration of the church itself. Oddly, while thousands of his writings are still considered by them as "sacred," this very issue got him labeled as a heretic when the faulty Sons of Seth "doctrine" was conceived! (2)

Additionally, the Coptic Orthodox Churches of Egypt (est'd appx 50-100 A.D.) still include Enoch as canonized text in the Ethiopic Old Testament (2). This fact alone should carry great weight for Western Christians when honestly studying the "case" for Enoch. Given their 1900+ year history, the fact that they were never "ruled" by Rome's theology, and that they currently number over 10 million - this is a VERY significant portion of The Body of Christ that has historically esteemed 1 Enoch as inspired doctrine.

Some today (who do not seem to believe in the inspiration of scripture) claim that most major themes of the New Testament were in fact "borrowed" from 1 Enoch. "It appears that Christianity later adopted some of its ideas and philosophies from this book, including the Final Judgment, the concept of demons, the Resurrection, and the coming of a Messiah and Messianic Kingdom" (3). No doubt, these themes are major parts of 1 Enoch, and appear there as complete theologies a full 200 years before any other NT writings.

Christian author Stephen Quayle writes, "Several centuries before and after the appearance of Jesus in Jerusalem, this book had become well known to the Jewish community, having a profound impact upon Jewish thought. The Book of Enoch gave the jewish people their solar calendar, and also appears to have instilled the idea that the coming Messiah would be someone who had pre-existed as God (4)." Translator RH Charles also stated that "the influence of 1 Enoch on the New Testament has been greater than all of the other apocryphal and pseudepigraphical books put together" (3). The conclusions are somewhat inescapable given Enoch's dating and wide acceptance between 200 B.C. and 200 A.D. - either Christian authors, and especially the Nicene Council, did plagiarize their theology directly from Enoch, or the original version of Enoch was also inspired.

James H Charlesworth, director of Dead Sea Studies at Yale University, says in The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha & The New Testament (Trinity Press International),
"I have no doubt that the Enoch groups deemed the Book of Enoch as fully inspired as any biblical book. I am also convinced that the group of jewish people behind the Temple Scroll, which is surely pre-Qumranic, would have judged it to be quintessential Torah -- that is, equal to, and perhaps better than, Deuteronomy....Then we should perceive the Pseudepigrapha as they were apparently judged to be: God's revelation to humans(2 & 5)."

But perhaps the most telling argument for 1 Enoch's "inspiration" may well be that the Jewish understanding of the term "Son of Man" as a Messianic title comes - not truly from our Old Testament canon - but from the Book of Enoch! Ever wonder why Jesus refers to himself in the gospels as the "Son of Man" rather than the Son of God? (2) Of over 100 uses of the phrase "son of man" in the OT, it refers almost always to "normal" men (93 times specifically of Ezekiel, and certainly not as Messiah!), but is used only one time in the entire OT, in one of Daniel's heavenly visions, to refer to divinity. Despite the Old Testament's frequent lack of divine application of the phrase, 1 Enoch records several trips to heaven, using the title "Son of Man" unceasingly to refer to the pre-incarnate Christ. Of particular Messianic significance, Enoch describes the following scene (2):

The angels "glorify with all their power of praise; and He sustains them in all that act of thanksgiving while they laud, glorify and exalt the name of the Lord of Spirits forever and ever... Great was their joy. They blessed, glorified and exalted because the name of the Son of Man was revealed to them (1 Enoch 68:35-38)." Both His disciples, and especially the Sanhedrein knew what Jesus was claiming - 84 times in the gospels! - when referring to Himself as the "Son of Man." This claim was considered an obvious blasphemy to the Pharisees & Saducees, but it is eternal life to all who confess that Jesus of Nazareth was, and is, the Son of Man, The Messiah, God in the flesh, The Holy One of Israel, God's Christ - the Lord of All to whom every knee shall bow (Philippians 2:8-10).

Using "normal rules" of scriptural interpretation, we are never to draw firm doctrine from only one passage of scripture. Right? Daniel's single use of "Son of Man" (in a "night vision" at that - Dan 7:13), would not be sufficient to claim that the phrase is indeed Messianic, especially given the other 107 times it is not used in that way. 1 Enoch is the missing "second witness" needed (according to all other rules of interpretation) to understand the phrase's double meaning as an enduring Messianic title. It has been argued ever since Enoch's first English translation, that by using this title so familiar to the jewish people, Jesus was actually affirming the truth of this book, that the prophet was taken on many trips to heaven before his "final" translation, and that HE WAS THE ONE whom Enoch saw there - the pre-existent Son of Man, whom Enoch prophesied would judge the souls of all men.

Interestingly, Daniel is ALSO the only OT use of the term "watcher" to ever refer to angels (Daniel 4:13, 17, 23 KJV). Strong's Concordance defines a watcher as a "guardian angel" (Strong's 5894). "The distinguishing character of the Watcher (opposed to other angels in the canon) appears to be that it spends much time among men, overseeing what they are doing. It is also interesting to note that both times one of these angels appeared to Daniel, he took pains to note that it was "an holy one," suggesting that some Watchers are not aligned with God while others are (4)." Found nowhere else in the OT canon but the book of Daniel, "watcher" is patently Enoch's term for these angels. Likewise, Daniel alone used Enoch's term "Son of Man" to refer to the pre-incarnate Christ, adding further intrigue to the case for 1 Enoch's inspiration, and an overall understanding of it's doctrinal acceptance among both Old and New Testament writers.

What we lose out on today by not examining 1 Enoch - even if only for its historical significance - is that it is actually more splendid than ANY OTHER book in our canon in its exultation of Christ as King! It also gives clear, stern and oft-repeated warnings to the unsaved of swift destruction at the Coming of The Lord, but is also full of amazing promises of future glory for the elect! We are of course wise to stay clear of dangerous heresy, but... ask yourself if the below sounds like false doctrine? Keep in mind, this was written at least 200 years before Christ walked the earth, and perhaps before Noah's birth:

Then shall the kings, the princes, and all who possess the earth, glorify Him who has dominion over all things, Him who was concealed; for from eternity the Son of Man was concealed, whom the Most High preserved in the presence of
His power and revealed to the elect.

He shall sow the congregation of the saints, and of the elect; and all the elect shall stand before Him in that day.
All the kings, the princes, the exalted, and those who rule
over the earth shall fall down on their faces before Him,
and shall worship Him. They shall fix their hopes on this Son of Man...

Then the sword of the Lord of Spirits shall be drunk from them (the lost); but the saints and the elect shall be safe in that day; nor the face of the sinners and the ungodly shall they thence-forth behold. The Lord of Spirits shall remain over them; And with this Son of Man shall they dwell, eat, lie down, and rise up for ever and ever...

Enoch 61:10-13

Literally Translated from the Ethiopic by Richard Laurence LL.D.
Archbishop of Cashel
Late Professor of Hebrew in the University of Oxford

Pretty simple really... Jesus came to serve man - not to be worshiped. No offense, but have you actually read the words of Jesus? Sounds like you have been brainwashed by religion.

Askrealjesus.com

Salt, we wish to speak to you on matters which cant be disguised publically do you have a email? You have said things which only those intune can and if thou knoweth whom is asking you for your email then we have much to reveal.

Salt, we wish to speak to you on matters which cant be disguised publically do you have a email? You have said things which only those intune can and if thou knoweth whom is asking you for your email then we have much to reveal.

Salt, we wish to speak to you on matters which cant be disguised publically do you have a email? You have said things which only those intune can and if thou knoweth whom is asking you for your email then we have much to reveal.

Really? Did you mean to type "i am" as Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic didn't use capitals.

Firstly to believe that "i am" means GOD you have to accept & believe evil Moses as representing GOD.

Good luck with that, because then you have to believe that YOUR GOD agreed with infanticide, slavery, mass murder, ethnic cleansing, stoning and all the other ugly Moses laws.

Oh and not to forget Moses feeding women dust from the floor in holy water as a curse to test if they had been unfaithful and that would abort a baby if they had. I showed this on another thread but it is a very important verse so here it is again.

Numbers 5:16-22 (NIV) “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord."

Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water.

After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.

Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you.

But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”—

here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.

May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

Once you agree to take Moses' view on things then you have to go against what Jesus taught. According to Moses GOD spoke directly to him.

And after that if you can accept GOD would agree with all that Moses said you have to deal with what Jesus said

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Is Moses of Jesus lying... Now which one is it?

But it gets even more complex.

Why did Jesus say this?

Matthew 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.

People read this line, grab it and pretend it aligns with the OT "i am who i am" line from Moses the terrible, BUT, and miss the key word… Abraham!

If Jesus had have said “before adam I am” then that would have put him before man.

BUT Abraham? Abraham is nowhere near the first in this alleged genealogy.

Something is definitely wrong, and believers just read over it as if it was nothing.

Jesus is saying he goes back to before Abraham… This is a crazy choice knowing as GOD he has to go back to Adam at least another 19 generations according to this site!

[link to www.abetterhope.com]

So how do believers miss this stuff? How do they believe in the attrocities of Moses as "from GOD" - afterall Moses said GOD said to do it!

And how do they accept "i am" as meaning so much when it is very peculiarly used in both cases?

I have much, much more but I'm not sure believers want to know the truth... It's easier to believe the Bible with all it's immense flaws and to not have to think.

Spiritoftruth... teach me the truth.

You are being all secretive and mysterious - sort of like a secret agent for GOD...lol

I've seen on one of your threads that Elijah, Moses and Jesus will come together for the end times.

But as I have shown many times Moses was not a good man.

Are you members oh The True Jesus Organization?

I am willing to learn... but why must it be secret?

You can't blame mankind for it's failings if you have all these secrets and don't explain things intelligibly.

I noticed that no-one has attempted to address the queries I put in the above post.

Now of course you may be away researching about why Jesus would say Matthew 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am. and I would love to hear your responses.

BUT another problem for believers just came to mind.

When Jesus was baptised this happened

Matthew 3:16-17 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

This is GOD stating that Jesus is his son! Loudly and Clearly!

But interestingly Jesus didn't have the holy spirit within him prior to this event?

The question then needs to be asked. When did Jesus know he was the "Son of God"?

After this Jesus goes into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

This too has problems.

How does a being so low as Satan tempt GOD? And can GOD really be tempted?

Well according to the Bible the answer is yes and yet that is quite illogical.

The temptations

Bread for his hunger - Well I am sure GOD doesn't need bread.

Casting himself down - Well GOD can stop himself hitting the pavement, surely.

Now these first two are absurd but the last one is unbelievable.

All the kingdoms of the world - Jesus who knows he is at least the Son of GOD or GOD depending on who you believe already knows he owns all the kingdoms of the world. There is no temptation!

These are temptations thrown at GOD by Satan and are complete rubbish.

BUT

According to the Bible there was a time when Satan tempted GOD and GOD took the temptation.

It is in the story of JOB.

Job 1 6-12

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? (the temptation)

Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord. (the acceptance of the temptation)

Now there are three massive problems with this story.

1. This suggests GOD actually does get tempted, and by his arch enemy Satan!

2. How many INNOCENT people suffer due to this EGO fight between GOD and Satan?

3. This story totally undermmines the omniscience of GOD!

Afterall, an omniscient GOD would have known the outcome of JOB being tested and no-one needed to suffer.

These things need to be considered by believers.

They simply don't make any sense. Any thoughts?

who is "we"?

give me your email and i will message you.

God can not do anything that is in contradiction to what is good, this is how thou shall know what is from God which is good and what was altered through Satan which is evil, for scriptures contain also deceptions as well and it takes the eye of beholder to know which is which.

Behold the story of job as it written and interpeted by man is deception, there was no event of Satan making a bet with God.

2. How many INNOCENT people suffer due to this EGO fight between GOD and Satan?

You think thats god? lol

Tell Venus to stop eating mars ego lol


[link to greatmindsoftoday.com]

God can not do anything that is in contradiction to what is good, this is how thou shall know what is from God which is good and what was altered through Satan which is evil, for scriptures contain also deceptions as well and it takes the eye of beholder to know which is which.

Behold the story of job as it written and interpeted by man is deception, there was no event of Satan making a bet with God.

man can not understand the things of man how be it they understand the things of heaven? What do you seek to know I reveal only that which is written to be revealed...

Pretty simple really... Jesus came to serve man - not to be worshiped. No offense, but have you actually read the words of Jesus? Sounds like you have been brainwashed by religion.

Askrealjesus.com

well, i am a seminary student, so i have to study the words of Jesus.