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Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25206546
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11/01/2012 12:20 AM
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Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
[link to news.cnet.com]

Ummmmmmm what???? Really? If this is true we need to shin this pit immediately and get the freaking word out. I employ your help, though, GLP to help me read and research this to see if I am missing something. This is not right...

In fact, this is how our fucking freedoms steadily erode. They chip away and chip away at it like this. This disgusts me. And the fact that this is just the start of it... Before long, it will just be part of the standard process of being a human being living in the United States of America...

They are saying this type of surveillance does not violate the 4th amendment I guess? Am I missing anything here guys? Please point out I am missing something...
------------------------------------------------------------


In latest case to test how technological developments alter Americans' privacy, federal court sides with Justice Department on police use of concealed surveillance cameras on private property.

by Declan McCullagh October 30, 2012 10:45 AM PDT
Follow @declanm

Police are allowed in some circumstances to install hidden surveillance cameras on private property without obtaining a search warrant, a federal judge said yesterday.

CNET has learned that U.S. District Judge William Griesbach ruled that it was reasonable for Drug Enforcement Administration agents to enter rural property without permission -- and without a warrant -- to install multiple "covert digital surveillance cameras" in hopes of uncovering evidence that 30 to 40 marijuana plants were being grown.

This is the latest case to highlight how advances in technology are causing the legal system to rethink how Americans' privacy rights are protected by law. In January, the Supreme Court rejected warrantless GPS tracking after previously rejecting warrantless thermal imaging, but it has not yet ruled on warrantless cell phone tracking or warrantless use of surveillance cameras placed on private property without permission.

Yesterday Griesbach adopted a recommendation by U.S. Magistrate Judge William Callahan dated October 9. That recommendation said that the DEA's warrantless surveillance did not violate the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable searches and requires that warrants describe the place that's being searched.

"The Supreme Court has upheld the use of technology as a substitute for ordinary police surveillance," Callahan wrote.

Two defendants in the case, Manuel Mendoza and Marco Magana of Green Bay, Wis., have been charged with federal drug crimes after DEA agent Steven Curran claimed to have discovered more than 1,000 marijuana plants grown on the property, and face possible life imprisonment and fines of up to $10 million. Mendoza and Magana asked Callahan to throw out the video evidence on Fourth Amendment grounds, noting that "No Trespassing" signs were posted throughout the heavily wooded, 22-acre property owned by Magana and that it also had a locked gate.

(Picture of AG Santelle here and caption in parentheses below is the caption to this photo)-
U.S. Attorney James Santelle, who argued that warrantless surveillance cameras on private property "does not violate the Fourth Amendment."

Callahan based his reasoning on a 1984 Supreme Court case called Oliver v. United States, in which a majority of the justices said that "open fields" could be searched without warrants because they're not covered by the Fourth Amendment. What lawyers call "curtilage," on the other hand, meaning the land immediately surrounding a residence, still has greater privacy protections.

"Placing a video camera in a location that allows law enforcement to record activities outside of a home and beyond protected curtilage does not violate the Fourth Amendment," Justice Department prosecutors James Santelle and William Lipscomb told Callahan.

As digital sensors become cheaper and wireless connections become more powerful, the Justice Department's argument would allow police to install cameras on private property without court oversight -- subject only to budgetary limits and political pressure.

About four days after the DEA's warrantless installation of surveillance cameras, a magistrate judge did subsequently grant a warrant. But attorneys for Mendoza and Magana noticed that the surveillance took place before the warrant was granted.

"That one's actions could be recorded on their own property, even if the property is not within the curtilage, is contrary to society's concept of privacy," wrote Brett Reetz, Magana's attorney, in a legal filing last month. "The owner and his guest... had reason to believe that their activities on the property were not subject to video surveillance as it would constitute a violation of privacy."
A jury trial has been scheduled for January 22.

5a5a5a5a5a5a5a5a
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/01/2012 12:41 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
Key bump. Can anyone help me out with this one? Is this truly warrantless surveillance getting the okay? Any strings in this one that I am missing?

Ughhh

bumpbump

Hoping someone comes in and lets me know this is:

bsflagbsflagbsflag
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 01:23 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
I believe gang stalking surveillance types have done this to me. I had a handful of "odd" wireless networks pop up around my house...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/01/2012 01:23 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
thanks for the pin mods. First one ever. Long time reader but I do not post too much. This article caught my eye, though. It is not really mentioned on MSM.

I am not as smart or intuitive as most of you guys, though. Could use some expert insight on this sorta scary article :\

I get really paranoid about things like this...

Isn't there SOMETHING we can stand up and do against measures like this???

wtf hiding
Cosmic Eye Open
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11/01/2012 01:23 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
burnit
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/01/2012 01:25 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
I believe gang stalking surveillance types have done this to me. I had a handful of "odd" wireless networks pop up around my house...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26567448


Again, I am not as smart as most posters here, but do you think this is something that has been going on for a long time anyways against us, and now the court is just legitimizing it?
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 01:37 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
I believe gang stalking surveillance types have done this to me. I had a handful of "odd" wireless networks pop up around my house...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26567448


Again, I am not as smart as most posters here, but do you think this is something that has been going on for a long time anyways against us, and now the court is just legitimizing it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25206546


I know they were driving by multiple times daily until the wireless networks showed up. I know they know when I go outside (a small airplane will fly over). I know they know when I have company ( they will drive by). I know they know when I get back home after being out because, again, they will drive by. I have been gang stalked for over ten years now. You would think that if they thought I was a terrorist that something besides gang stalking would be happening. I'm not exactly sure what they hope to accomplish....
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 01:43 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
In the beginning they deleted my car registrations from my state's computers, broke into friends and family's places, had local and state police pull me over and harass me all the time, made loud noises outside my house very late at night (banging a sheet of tin or firing a gun or honking their car horns). I even had an incident where six apache helicopters hovered over me for twenty minutes.
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 01:47 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
Corrupt Judicatory System Sucks !!
NowUNoIT
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11/01/2012 01:56 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
Great post OP!

Let's see..."I think this person may be a terrorist" Let's instal a camera and violate American citizens constitutional rights...
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 01:56 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
All of the wireless networks have the ssid in all caps and all use a word with a number at the end.
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 02:10 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
It all started when I became vocal against chemtrails.
Later on I had to become security conscious because I was losing files on my computer and/or it would crash all the time. I then became aware of the udp port 1025 backdoor, and later on, the port 1935 and 8080 backdoors. I'm aware of the malformed gif technique used as a browser backdoor, or the use of youtubes as a computer surveillance mechanism, or the use of embedded 'footprint' ip's, and other javascript and flash exploits.

I guess in their eyes this makes me a dangerous terrorist to be watched.
Practicing freedom of speech comes with a cost....
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 02:25 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
hiding
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 02:30 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
There is no LAW.

take these things down
ChipModerator
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11/01/2012 02:31 AM

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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
Pretty soon we'll see a headline that reads "Court Ok's the local district attorney, sheriff, and police to rape your wife."

...and the public will love it...just as they always do!

Last Edited by Chip on 11/01/2012 02:32 AM
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. ~Arthur C. Clarke

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every-citizen
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 03:15 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
Slowly the constitution goes out the window - piece by piece until you don't realize it's gone.
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 03:34 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
Maybe those making these laws should have......Warrantless use of hidden surveillance on them........constantly...... ;) Just so that they understand what it feels like..... hfpeace
UseLess RepEATER
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11/01/2012 05:08 AM

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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras

Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
~U.R.~

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 05:15 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
welcome to the new Soviet Union. it started with the Patriot Acts and it just keeps on going. but hey, film a cop and you could go to jail for that.
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 05:41 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
Legalise Drugs and manage the problem then this type of illegal surveillance has no foundation. Oh wait! Drugs are already legal but the Pharmaceutical Corporations don’t want any competition from the little folk. Once again the US regime is using a social problem against their Human Capital. They honestly aren’t trying to find solutions that will benefit the masses.
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 06:21 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
All judges esp supreme court should be elected not appointed
And specific terms not for life
Because once corrupt, how can you dismiss them?
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 06:34 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
Come on. We all know that it's just a piece of paper. Ain't that what G.W. told us?
stormer

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11/01/2012 06:48 AM

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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
Fuck the 4th amendment!

snarl

obigbrooyesbutt
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery - Bob Marley
godblessamerika!
User ID: 26705050
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11/01/2012 06:54 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
Great post OP!

Let's see..."I think this person may be a terrorist" Let's instal a camera and violate American citizens constitutional rights...
 Quoting: NowUNoIT 26404601


Well it's okay as long as they think they might be terrorists because they're just trying to keep us safe!

Yup yup yup! ohyeah
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 07:01 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
"Don't thread on me" and all that jazz.

You had a republic if you could keep it.

Oh well... cool2
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 07:05 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
So there should be no problem with secretly filming the police, secretly filming the courts....
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 07:08 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
secret footage from an unauthorized camera surveillance!!!! [link to www.youtube.com]
hehe ur fooled
User ID: 26772196
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11/01/2012 07:10 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
So there should be no problem with secretly filming the police, secretly filming the courts....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11677814


exactly since they are public trustees and supposed to be benefitting the people .
Chosenwarrior4God

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11/01/2012 07:18 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
We have no rights, this is not a country, it's a corporation, a business. Anyone can be detained while walking down the street based on "suspicious activity", the patriot act sound familiar?
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 07:37 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
Have you guys seen stories of people who are (in a phantom manner) on the No Fly List. People who have done nothing, have been in no trouble, and they show up to airports and are considered dangerous?

WTF?! That shit all plays in together. This is such a violation of our freedoms. It is why I do not support this entire system that we are a part of...
Anonymous Coward
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11/01/2012 07:40 AM
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Re: Court Ok's Use of Warrantless Use of Hidden Surveillance Cameras
Do any of you really think that the PTB, the government, the courts, businesses need any type of permission to use surveillance cameras, or any other type of surveillance technology? Besides, with the creation of the "Internet", and all the associated "information" technologies, we are all under constant ubiquitous surveillance. Do you see the CCTV cameras everywhere? Do you realize that biometric technologies do much more than capture images? While you rant and rave about warrantless this or that, the PTB have you under constant surveillance, and you're not even aware that its happening!

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