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Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"

 
Anonymous Coward
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11/04/2012 10:26 PM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
this doesn't make any sense. Jesus Christ is the Lord God an you will never be able to prove He isn't because He is... so that would never happen. Dumb question Op, its called an education, get one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26863283


And here's the pot calling the kettle black. Prove that he is, rather than regurgitating some writings from a book. Prove it.
 Quoting: Cheshire~Cat


It is not a science class.


God's mechanism for salvation is by faith......believing without seeing.


The Jews many times saw the miracles of God firsthand......but were soonafter in rebellion against Him.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25839887


This entire reply made no sense. Can you elaborate?

Believing without seeing. I think your notion of "seeing" and mine are two different things.
 Quoting: Cheshire~Cat



Faith....for example.....being a teenage shephard boy.


And seeing the warriors of your country fearful......taking a rock and sling yourself.....and going out to stand before the giant......knowing that God will fight the battle for you.



Or the faith of a child......5 years old.....not capable of debating intellectually as an adult......nor knowing the history of each of his parents......but just trusting them......that they will take care of him.....and are good people......and therefore putting his life into their hands.
notgonna

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11/04/2012 10:26 PM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
For a person of faith, the problem really lies in your question. Inherent to faith is the understanding that we will never have "proof" acceptable to the non believing world so to accept there might be a circumstance where "proof" could override one's faith is antithetical to the belief system...

But to answer your question as best as I can, how could I ever feel bad about spreading a message hope, love, forgiveness, everlasting life, salvation, trust, security, peace etc...? I'm just a hungry beggar trying to tell the starving where they can find a loaf of bread, a refreshed soul pointing out the drink to a dying man...
Rising Son
Clear Eyes, Full Hearts

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11/04/2012 10:28 PM

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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
I understand - what frustrates you about religious people frustrates me just the same. Anyone who lives their life in contradiction is difficult to relate to, much less understand.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Indeed. You are wise :)
 Quoting: Cheshire~Cat


Thank you for saying so, but I have much to learn :-)
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Cheshire~Cat

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11/04/2012 10:29 PM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
...


And here's the pot calling the kettle black. Prove that he is, rather than regurgitating some writings from a book. Prove it.
 Quoting: Cheshire~Cat


It is not a science class.


God's mechanism for salvation is by faith......believing without seeing.


The Jews many times saw the miracles of God firsthand......but were soonafter in rebellion against Him.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25839887


This entire reply made no sense. Can you elaborate?

Believing without seeing. I think your notion of "seeing" and mine are two different things.
 Quoting: Cheshire~Cat



Faith....for example.....being a teenage shephard boy.


And seeing the warriors of your country fearful......taking a rock and sling yourself.....and going out to stand before the giant......knowing that God will fight the battle for you.



Or the faith of a child......5 years old.....not capable of debating intellectually as an adult......nor knowing the history of each of his parents......but just trusting them......that they will take care of him.....and are good people......and therefore putting his life into their hands.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25839887


Sorry, it would appear we're unable to communicate. Knowing God will fight for you? Relinquishing your own control to Omm 0000?

No thanks. Please continue your journey, it would appear that you're too smugly satisified with condemning others.
~How fine you look when dressed in rage. Your enemies are fortunate your condition is not permanent. You're lucky, too. Red eyes suit so few.

~Only a few find the way, some don't recognize it when they do - some... don't ever want to.
NalloArt

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11/04/2012 10:32 PM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
I would be very pleased with the way I have conducted myself. For I have given to the needy, been kind to strangers, taught myself to be humble and non judgmental, to listen first and then act, and to be a good person all around. If you seek to shame the world's religions, OP, you fail miserably. I embrace mine and the positive morals it teaches. Maybe you could learn a thing or two from people with faith. And not just Christians, but the Buddhists, who value life and love...
Wiccans, who respect the earth and home
Hindus, who believe that if you do good in life, good things will happen
The list goes on and on, I only put up the most popular. Faith is not wrong or evil. Only humans and how we use it. OP, learn to love and not judge. You'll be happier.

Also....TROLL ALERT! >:D I see right through you, OP!
And it's ironic too
'Cause what we tend to do
Is act on what they say
And then it is that way~Jem.
Northman

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11/04/2012 10:38 PM

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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
Why have reason when you can have faith? Reason requires a
thought process. Thinking can cause stress. Have faith, relax, don't trouble yourself with actually having to understand things.
Anonymous Coward
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11/04/2012 10:40 PM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
"No thanks. Please continue your journey, it would appear that you're too smugly satisified with condemning others."


*********************************************


Smug?......not sure where I condemned you. Can you elaborate? Sorry.


The cross itself......is offensive to many. Most rejected Christ......even when He walked this earth.


I myself am a wretched sinner.......hopelessly stained with sin. My sins are over my head.


All others.....better than me.


I am but a servant.
Anonymous Coward
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11/04/2012 10:46 PM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
But I will also feel glad as I lived my life being the best human being as I could.
 Quoting: CripplingLies


You don't need faith for that.

Are you starting to see the bigger picture?
 Quoting: Cheshire~Cat


Yes, this is known as good values. Depends on how one is brought up.
Ever hear: do unto others as you wish them to do unto you?
I am old enough to have lived in the times kids were brought up properly.
The newer generations have a lot to learn or we are all in a pickle.
 Quoting: Fly n Fox


What planet are you on?
Anonymous Coward
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11/04/2012 10:48 PM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
old people
Anonymous Coward
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11/04/2012 10:53 PM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
I can ask you the very same question. What would you feel when you die and stand in front of the heavens gates?

I'm a man of faith, if, for some reason, my faith is proven to be wrong, I will feel upset, yes. But I will also feel glad as I lived my life being the best human being as I could.

So, if I'm wrong, I would have wasted some time worshiping a God that supposedly should exist, but nothing beyond that. But if you are wrong, then you have lost your soul. Who's got more to lose here?
 Quoting: CripplingLies


Incorrect. You will not be held accountable for beliefs alone, only for what you know for fact.



And true faith should be a bit more substantial than merely 'soul insurance'. How might God feel if he found out you only believed in him just in case?
Anonymous Coward
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11/04/2012 10:56 PM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
"And true faith should be a bit more substantial than merely 'soul insurance'. How might God feel if he found out you only believed in him just in case?"


*********************************


God knows what is in the hearts and minds of all 6 Billion people on this planet......even as I type this.
Anonymous Coward
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11/04/2012 11:02 PM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
Reasonable question to ask.

I think it's interesting that people get upset at thinking about it, without considering the OP isn't questioning the faith you have, we all know that's real, they're questioning what it is you have faith in.

I see people split on it, some are very adamant that they are infallible, and could never be wrong about anything regarding the bible, or the Quran, or any other books, and some take a more relaxed approach to it and accept the fact that there's no way we could ever accurately know what god planned, to an arbitrary precision.

There are literally thousands, if not millions of different predictions/version/explanations of god, they can't always be right about everything, so I would think a reasonable person would be able to accept they were wrong about some things.
Klink
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11/04/2012 11:07 PM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
The "faith of Jesus" is founded upon a long HISTORY & SCIENCE. It is not 'blind faith' as some believe.

Atheism is a NWO lie w/faith in evolution & 'caveman'.
Anonymous Coward
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11/04/2012 11:14 PM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
Faith and Religion are in no way related. ....My child.
Anonymous Coward
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11/05/2012 12:22 AM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
Faith...what a ridiculous concept. Here is a glass of water. It's full of water, ok? What?? You can't see the water? Oh, uh...well just BELIEVE it's full of water! What do you mean will it quench your thirst?! Yes!!! But you have to believe it will.
Ok, give me a sip then. I absolutely believe it has water in it.
Oi! The glass is empty!
Well, you didn't believe hard enough...

If you're going to cop out and 'believe' in something you've lost the game from the word go. Believing in god in case he exists is just as ridiculous.
Which god does one believe in?!?!
There are a myriad of gods out there proclaiming all sorts of 'truth'.

Of course, those who love their gods cannot think beyond them and so there is no point in arguing.
Attempting to disprove my luminous purple dragonfish is equally impossible...
Anonymous Coward
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11/05/2012 12:48 AM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
I don't try to convince others, I remind people of HIM when they are down. I also testify to what he does for me, personally, to other Christians to remind them of HIS awesomeness.

If some scientists said they found proof HE doesn't exist, it would mean nothing to me. When I call on Jesus, I see HIM working in my life.

HE has saved my butt way too many times for me to ever doubt HIM.
Rising Son
Clear Eyes, Full Hearts

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11/05/2012 01:15 AM

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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
Faith...what a ridiculous concept. Here is a glass of water. It's full of water, ok? What?? You can't see the water? Oh, uh...well just BELIEVE it's full of water! What do you mean will it quench your thirst?! Yes!!! But you have to believe it will.
Ok, give me a sip then. I absolutely believe it has water in it.
Oi! The glass is empty!
Well, you didn't believe hard enough...

If you're going to cop out and 'believe' in something you've lost the game from the word go. Believing in god in case he exists is just as ridiculous.
Which god does one believe in?!?!
There are a myriad of gods out there proclaiming all sorts of 'truth'.

Of course, those who love their gods cannot think beyond them and so there is no point in arguing.
Attempting to disprove my luminous purple dragonfish is equally impossible...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1349923


The question was asked to those of faith, and was advertised as such in the thread title. Still, you entered this thread anyway with the sole intention to mock those with faith. What does that say about the kind of person you are? Are you that uncomfortable or unhappy with your own life that you must ridicule others to make yourself feel better? The road you are on is lonely and it leads to a dead end, I know this because I traveled down the same road. You have the power to change who you are, but you must first admit that you are lost. Well, that was the hardest thing for me to do anyway. You either humble yourself enough to admit you are lost, or life humbles you and leaves you with no choice but to change. It's your choice.

Last Edited by Rising Son on 11/05/2012 01:19 AM
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Anonymous Coward
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11/05/2012 02:29 AM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
Faith...what a ridiculous concept. Here is a glass of water. It's full of water, ok? What?? You can't see the water? Oh, uh...well just BELIEVE it's full of water! What do you mean will it quench your thirst?! Yes!!! But you have to believe it will.
Ok, give me a sip then. I absolutely believe it has water in it.
Oi! The glass is empty!
Well, you didn't believe hard enough...

If you're going to cop out and 'believe' in something you've lost the game from the word go. Believing in god in case he exists is just as ridiculous.
Which god does one believe in?!?!
There are a myriad of gods out there proclaiming all sorts of 'truth'.

Of course, those who love their gods cannot think beyond them and so there is no point in arguing.
Attempting to disprove my luminous purple dragonfish is equally impossible...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1349923


The question was asked to those of faith, and was advertised as such in the thread title. Still, you entered this thread anyway with the sole intention to mock those with faith. What does that say about the kind of person you are? Are you that uncomfortable or unhappy with your own life that you must ridicule others to make yourself feel better? The road you are on is lonely and it leads to a dead end, I know this because I traveled down the same road. You have the power to change who you are, but you must first admit that you are lost. Well, that was the hardest thing for me to do anyway. You either humble yourself enough to admit you are lost, or life humbles you and leaves you with no choice but to change. It's your choice.

 Quoting: Rising Son


Really now?
From what I see on GLP I'd say the christians are just as guilty of jumping on threads they feel are pertinent to them. Someone asks a question from others who've used a Ouija board and next thing the god squad are all over it crying 'DEMONS!'.
So, please!
Now, you also seem to be an expert on my personal life but seeing as you aren't, here's a wee breakdown for you.
I'm no youngster, have a beautiful girlfriend (for the last 13 years), an amazing job, and 2 beSautiful kids. I play in a rock band ( that evil stuff) and have a great life. And I do it without an invisible chum!

In my youth (20's) I got involved in christianity and to cut a long story short, I wish I couod have those 2 years back.

So, there you go sunshine. We don't all fall for that shit and some of us still have rational minds...
Anonymous Coward
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11/05/2012 03:05 AM
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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
Raised Catholic, so will always have this inherent 'fear' that thinking on my own is going to damn me to some realm where there will exist eternal pain, BUT ONLY filled with the souls of people who don't say "I'm sorry" after they: murder, rape, cheat, lie, steal, hate, covet, or cause harm to in any way.

Ok, I don't fear that...because it's silly.

My basics:
I believe in everything and I believe in nothing. My only true fear is not figuring out the entire puzzle before the table falls and the pieces are scattered. We are all one and we are all separate. The only true existence is that of me....for me. Only I am the one who creates the world around me because the singularity of the soul is all that can be used to define the universe that I see and exist within.
Either/Both everything and everyone else is just parts to guide me on my journey, or/and each is within their own realm to make an equivalent understanding of oneself. (This is where I see the 'multiverse' of current quantum physics theories).

Cliche but, everything/one is created from the same thing at the quantum layer. Just different frequencies. Therefore, all that you experience: see, touch, hear, smell, taste, think....is the truth.
Astrology- Yes and even (to a degree)proven in physics (tides, planetary orbits, magnetism, etc). If we are all the same basic product, then any external influence pulling or pushing will generate a different 'being' whose frequencies are slightly modified due to those external forces.
Numerology- Sure, based on the same lowest level principle of frequency. If there are base freq differences, then there would be different values for determining the harmonics of that being.
Color Therapy/ Chromatherapy- Same thing. Every color is a reflection of the frequencies of visible light that cannot pass through the frequency field that exists as the color which it being represented. Finding the right frequency of 'color' which negates a shift of one's own frequency, is entirely possible as a healing therapy.

Christianity- Of course there is truth in this, as there is in every religion, but not the way it is used as a leash. Son of God? Why not, aren't we all? The only difference is the self definition of 'God'. This is the part where I have a difficult time explaining my position. Mainly because I don't like to insult peoples' personal convictions. And sure, there are plenty who would be accepted at whatever the next stage of the game is (Heaven, Awareness, Reunification with the Self, etc). But I have found so much anger, resentment, greed, hate, pity, disrespect from most people with an unwavering belief that what they hear and repeat at Church, every Sunday, is the true 'way'. I can't imagine that, should he come back for a 2nd round, the person who has been truly pious their entire life but don't believe in the King James Bible and don't think it has been altered throughout time, over the person who sits on the corner spewing hate about some gay dudes wanting to spend the rest of their lives happy together as a married couple.

The only passage(s) that I ever heard in Church that actually stuck out and stuck with me:

Beware of the ascribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the bhighest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;
- Luke 20:46

Which devour widows’ houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.
- Luke 20:47

As I sat there and watched the priest in his robe (who would often be the center of dinners, parties, etc), I realized that I was being led down a road that man has defiled with his own perversion of the Lessons brought here by Jesus (and Buddha, and Krishna, Jehovah, etc). I looked around and realized that some of these very people, who sit in these pews in long prayers, were the same who would call me a spic, as a young child...elementary, middle, high school... (FYI, 1/2 Puerto Rican but born and raised in the country...was one of only, hm, 1 or maybe 2, Hispanics in my grad class.)

"Jesus, I believe in you and will repeat things that someone has translated in this book to show you how much of a changed person I am. Oh, and Jesus, what is that little spic doing in your church?" This is what I'd imagine went on in the minds of those who would stare at me as if inferior because of a difference in the color of my skin (I'm even a light skinned PR, but no matter...the hate was always the same).


====================

Current and future thinking:

I never really held any animosity for those who spewed the racism at me but, obviously, grew up feeling worthless. But, back then, I always had the deepest belief that everyone, even the worst of the worst most horrible criminals, had a really good side....but that side was boxed into a corner and left to die long ago for many.

But, by adulthood, my belief in the Good of Man had become a joke to me. For years now, I have grown to hate everything about existence, people, society, life...

{Back Story for the 'Now' in my life}
=========
I had chosen celibacy for about 1-1/2 years toward the end of high school, because the whole process of bar-to-bed just never seemed 'good', but dirty and selfish. I was called a 'boy' by girls who I refused. Of course, as human nature is, once they were gone, I'd wish they would come back..... But, in the end, I'd have rejected them again even if they had come back.
Eventually, a friend set me up w/ a girl he was friends w/ through work. He said we always ended up crying in our beer by the end of the night. He'd call us something like, "Drunken Martyrs For Humanity".
Dated, married, children....then the fighting. Worse and worse, love starts just disappearing. Venom fills our words from both sides.
=========

I needed to find out what went wrong so I dove inside myself (not promoting, but some 'tools' were used to assist reaching deep into my own self to understand where things changed). I learned where our problems stemmed from....neither of us was doing anything w/ respect to where our childhood selves wanted to be. We both wanted to help, heal, uplift....instead she's beaten down w/ spoiled kids and I'm beaten down by the failure of capitalism destroying the job market (possibly for good) as I get to worry constantly if I will be fired, to make sure that targets are reached for investors.

I went back and put my entire life together, childhood, church, friends, drugs, strange things that couldn't be explained, deaths, births......and I realized it is all just 'It, He, She, We, I, God'. I was fooled into forgetting what is and what should be and had it replaced with anger, venom, I began counting how often I'd be brought to anger by others in my current world, for the most trivial things. I would be so sickened by the fact that I had gotten to 30 before lunch that day, that I knew it must change.

Since then, I've attempted to curb my stress about...well....everything. In the end, I realized, it doesn't matter what happens here. We're all on a ride on this big ball and we'll eventually get dropped off at destination yet unknown. I now enjoy letting as many people ahead of me in traffic, as is possible before someone behind me slams their horn. I chat about little nothingness topics to strangers in the store just so I can same something to get them to laugh (my favorite is getting behind someone at the grocery where they have 1-2 items and I have a cart. I tap their shoulder and ask, "Do you mind if I go ahead of you? I have a lot more than you"

I now see how much anger and veonom and general disrespect that people trend toward nowadays. I almost feel like there are few other emotions that people can prepared for a day. I am hoping to get people to look inside and see something similar. Once people unload their own baggage of pointless angst, I think we can move forward on our journey to the next level.

Oddly, as I think more in this way and try to express it, it almost seems as if someone who isn't me is trying to pull my strings back into 'normalcy' or whatever we call this anger filled 'now' time.

=================================================


Wow, I must apologize....I can't believe I have been rambling this long. I don't even know where I bled into each different segment w/o noticing it.

In short, I rediscovered something in myself that I thought was gone. And now, it seems to point me to a belief that there is good and there is evil. Jesus was right as is the atheist w/ a logical viewpoint of the heavens as long as he/she has a morality and understanding of the human condition and how massive this is.

The evil seems to be ruling the modern world. And I keep fearing that people can't be saved, especially those who think they are pure of heart, go to Church weekly, then kill wolves from helicopters for fun. There is so much darnkess inside of everyone, and I'm still trying to shake all of mine out.

Again, I am sorry for the rambling and I am sorry to anyone whom I've offended or demeaned in this thread (or anywhere else in my life).

==================================================

And please keep your prayers and good energy and positive chi and herbal healing toward the people who have lost everything on the East coast AS WELL AS EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD. We are all here, let's just joke about how silly it is until we forget how angry we were.
Rising Son
Clear Eyes, Full Hearts

User ID: 26324052
United States
11/05/2012 07:30 AM

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Re: Hypothetical question to those with "Faith"
Faith...what a ridiculous concept. Here is a glass of water. It's full of water, ok? What?? You can't see the water? Oh, uh...well just BELIEVE it's full of water! What do you mean will it quench your thirst?! Yes!!! But you have to believe it will.
Ok, give me a sip then. I absolutely believe it has water in it.
Oi! The glass is empty!
Well, you didn't believe hard enough...

If you're going to cop out and 'believe' in something you've lost the game from the word go. Believing in god in case he exists is just as ridiculous.
Which god does one believe in?!?!
There are a myriad of gods out there proclaiming all sorts of 'truth'.

Of course, those who love their gods cannot think beyond them and so there is no point in arguing.
Attempting to disprove my luminous purple dragonfish is equally impossible...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1349923


The question was asked to those of faith, and was advertised as such in the thread title. Still, you entered this thread anyway with the sole intention to mock those with faith. What does that say about the kind of person you are? Are you that uncomfortable or unhappy with your own life that you must ridicule others to make yourself feel better? The road you are on is lonely and it leads to a dead end, I know this because I traveled down the same road. You have the power to change who you are, but you must first admit that you are lost. Well, that was the hardest thing for me to do anyway. You either humble yourself enough to admit you are lost, or life humbles you and leaves you with no choice but to change. It's your choice.

 Quoting: Rising Son


Really now?
From what I see on GLP I'd say the christians are just as guilty of jumping on threads they feel are pertinent to them. Someone asks a question from others who've used a Ouija board and next thing the god squad are all over it crying 'DEMONS!'.
So, please!
Now, you also seem to be an expert on my personal life but seeing as you aren't, here's a wee breakdown for you.
I'm no youngster, have a beautiful girlfriend (for the last 13 years), an amazing job, and 2 beSautiful kids. I play in a rock band ( that evil stuff) and have a great life. And I do it without an invisible chum!

In my youth (20's) I got involved in christianity and to cut a long story short, I wish I couod have those 2 years back.

So, there you go sunshine. We don't all fall for that shit and some of us still have rational minds...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1349923


I am not going to excuse those who feel they are justified in judging others. However, their behavior does not in itself justify you doing the same thing. If you can see that what they are doing is wrong, then why have you chosen to follow their example?

Perhaps I was wrong to assume anything of you, but you still seem unhappy to me, despite your efforts at trying to convince me otherwise. Those who are happy or satisfied with their life do not need validation from anyone else, either positive or negative.

I would hope that you see my concern for you, rather than what you assume and misinterpret to be judgment. If Christianity turned out to be a bad experience for you, do not assume those whose experience with it differs from yours is due to ignorance. If you expect others to take the time to understand you, it may help to return the favor.

hf

Last Edited by Rising Son on 11/05/2012 07:31 AM
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

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