Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie? | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 2066658 11/07/2012 07:51 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 27120400 11/07/2012 07:52 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 27102510 11/07/2012 07:53 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Seeker of Truth 'Be the love that you are.' User ID: 20607485 11/07/2012 07:57 AM ![]() Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | reebok has retail stores? 'Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.' - Dr. Seuss 'love has no opposite as it is the divine solvent that ends duality.' - m'Lord 'Be the love that you are' -m'Lord [link to www.youtube.com] |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 27102510 11/07/2012 07:57 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27102510 Actually, I should say Reebok/Rockport, since we're the same company and are run as a combo store. It may be happening at Adidas as well, since they actually own Reebok. They keep that brand separate from Reebok, but the corporate management is the same. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 27102510 11/07/2012 07:58 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 26912620 11/07/2012 08:03 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 4428411 11/07/2012 08:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 27102510 11/07/2012 08:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It is legal to lie, but they can not force you to lie under threat of termination. I believe that is against the law. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4428411 That's interesting, because I get the impression that there would be negative consequences for me were I to tell a customer what we're doing. Is that a federal law or does it change state by state? Google was no help in researching this topic. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 27081689 11/07/2012 08:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 27120400 11/07/2012 08:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 27102510 11/07/2012 08:19 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | They know even non-conspiratist would not like this. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27081689 They could lose business if people pick up on this. Yeah, the general response from customers would be "that's none of your business" and they know it. I find the whole practice disgraceful myself. Rather than investing time/money/energy into coming up with new products and maybe updating our current products to make them more appealing to customers, they instead invest all of these resources into tracking, profiling, and implementing little tricks to manipulate the consumer. Now they want me to just plain lie to people, which flies in the face of all that "superior customer service" crap they're always feeding me. Seems like there's a point when enough would be enough. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 4428411 11/07/2012 08:19 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It is legal to lie, but they can not force you to lie under threat of termination. I believe that is against the law. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4428411 That's interesting, because I get the impression that there would be negative consequences for me were I to tell a customer what we're doing. Is that a federal law or does it change state by state? Google was no help in researching this topic. I'd have to look it up, but it seems like asking people to compromise their morals or face termination would be against the law. But then again, this is America we are living in. |
| Stanfiem User ID: 25760054 11/07/2012 08:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It is legal to lie, but they can not force you to lie under threat of termination. I believe that is against the law. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4428411 But could they fire him for not doing his job. OP: Has anyone asked what you are doing yet? This sounds a little fishy. Why do you need the set of barcodes It seems like there is a much less noticable way to go about taking this information. It is almost as if they are trying to gauge the customers reaction and see if they will notice. Stanfiem |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 4428411 11/07/2012 08:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Evidently, it varies from state to state, but from a simple search I found that it IS in fact legal for a business to require you to lie. In most states, an employee can be fired for any reason or no reason at all. The only exemption to this would be if you were able to obtain whistleblower status and that would require manipulating the legalspeak from lying to "fraud." |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 27102510 11/07/2012 08:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My question is...what the hell could you do with that kinda of limited data... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27120400 what good is knowing, "a Kim Kardashian look alike from Podunk, USA just bought a pair of ugly ass sneakers" I mean what can ya really do with that? The data isn't just limited, but completely inaccurate. One of the requirements is age. Some people don't look their age. Another requirement is local shopper vs. tourist shopper. I'm supposed to know that without asking? Yeah, if they speak with an accent or are exceptionally chatty, I can probably glean that they're not from around here. But I'm not going to be right 100% of the time. Another thing is, this is just one more thing we have to do at checkout now. On top of recommending additonal shoes, socks, shoe care products, asking for phone number and e-mail, and possibly asking for cancer donations at certain times of the year, now I also have to take a moment to secretly profile the consumer. Corporate has been very clear that we are not to skip any of these steps even if there is a long line. Knowing the employees at my store, many of them will probably just start scanning a random code without looking, just to try and speed things up. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 24425839 11/07/2012 08:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you want to keep your job, keep entering data they request. When people came for interviews, after they left, the company would mark (for record) the race, etc of person. They did not ask the person, they just kept record for their own reason. Companies are not asking customers to provide info. If you are not liking what is required, find another job. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 27102510 11/07/2012 08:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It is legal to lie, but they can not force you to lie under threat of termination. I believe that is against the law. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4428411 But could they fire him for not doing his job. OP: Has anyone asked what you are doing yet? This sounds a little fishy. Why do you need the set of barcodes It seems like there is a much less noticable way to go about taking this information. It is almost as if they are trying to gauge the customers reaction and see if they will notice. We just started doing this yesterday, so nobody has noticed yet as far as I know. And yes, they did in fact ask us to report the customers reaction to this. They didn't say what the consequences would be if we told the truth to customers, but they probably figure that they don't have to spell it out for me. I'll be leaving for work in a minute, so won't be able to respond to this thread for a while. But I'd love to hear is anybody has any recommendations for how to handle this ethically. Although I doubt I really have much recourse other than finding another job. P.S. Thanks for the pin! |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 3946954 11/07/2012 08:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | i have not bought anything from reebok since the early 90's... i liked the "hexacell technology" but they stopped making those shoes around 1994... about the same time their shoes switched to something horribly uncomfortable and resembled something addidas would make... it all makes sense now. |
| where is your imagination User ID: 1449133 11/07/2012 08:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | They know even non-conspiratist would not like this. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27081689 They could lose business if people pick up on this. Yeah, the general response from customers would be "that's none of your business" and they know it. I find the whole practice disgraceful myself. Rather than investing time/money/energy into coming up with new products and maybe updating our current products to make them more appealing to customers, they instead invest all of these resources into tracking, profiling, and implementing little tricks to manipulate the consumer. Now they want me to just plain lie to people, which flies in the face of all that "superior customer service" crap they're always feeding me. Seems like there's a point when enough would be enough. dude, this could be so much fun. jus enter the opposite of what people really are!! Enter male when they are female. Enter 80+ when they are under 16. Enter under 16 for all the cheap and nasty crap with no taste, enter 50+ for all the so called cool stuff. Think how hilarious itll be when they star trying to market to the 50+ crowd thinking that is where their demographic is... this is a goldmine of hilarity!! you just gotta use your imagination. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 3946954 11/07/2012 08:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | i have not bought anything from reebok since the early 90's... i liked the "hexacell technology" but they stopped making those shoes around 1994... about the same time their shoes switched to something horribly uncomfortable and resembled something addidas would make... it all makes sense now. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3946954 It is legal to lie, but they can not force you to lie under threat of termination. I believe that is against the law. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4428411 But could they fire him for not doing his job. OP: Has anyone asked what you are doing yet? This sounds a little fishy. Why do you need the set of barcodes It seems like there is a much less noticable way to go about taking this information. It is almost as if they are trying to gauge the customers reaction and see if they will notice. We just started doing this yesterday, so nobody has noticed yet as far as I know. And yes, they did in fact ask us to report the customers reaction to this. They didn't say what the consequences would be if we told the truth to customers, but they probably figure that they don't have to spell it out for me. I'll be leaving for work in a minute, so won't be able to respond to this thread for a while. But I'd love to hear is anybody has any recommendations for how to handle this ethically. Although I doubt I really have much recourse other than finding another job. P.S. Thanks for the pin! ya, forward my statement to "them". |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 27102510 11/07/2012 08:45 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you want to keep your job, keep entering data they request. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24425839 When people came for interviews, after they left, the company would mark (for record) the race, etc of person. They did not ask the person, they just kept record for their own reason. Companies are not asking customers to provide info. If you are not liking what is required, find another job. My objection isn't just about collecting the data. I'm not a fan of that, but there's nothing really illegal/unethical about it exactly. I just think it's a waste of time when there are other things to company could focus on that might have a REAL impact on sales. My main objection is that they require me to lie if the customer questions me. And yeah, I'm thinking of finding another job. Even if what they're asking of me is legal, it's still disgraceful, in my opinion. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 25865505 11/07/2012 09:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Stanfiem User ID: 25760054 11/07/2012 09:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you want to keep your job, keep entering data they request. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24425839 When people came for interviews, after they left, the company would mark (for record) the race, etc of person. They did not ask the person, they just kept record for their own reason. Companies are not asking customers to provide info. If you are not liking what is required, find another job. My objection isn't just about collecting the data. I'm not a fan of that, but there's nothing really illegal/unethical about it exactly. I just think it's a waste of time when there are other things to company could focus on that might have a REAL impact on sales. My main objection is that they require me to lie if the customer questions me. And yeah, I'm thinking of finding another job. Even if what they're asking of me is legal, it's still disgraceful, in my opinion. I think this is not for the company per se. I think it is more to gauge the reactions of the customers and also the employees. Trying to see if the average person is OK with profiling, and also getting blue collar workers used to doing the bidding of the corporate overlords. Another thing to think about is middle management is most likely analyzing employee reaction to the new system as well and reporting their findings to the people above them. "get in line or GTFO" There are actually several things they could be testing other than the ASL of the customer. Like the poster above said what is the company really going to do with the age sex and tourist or local. I would say as far as morality goes either quite now. Or take a stand with the company and refuse but I feel like the only thing this will accomplish is getting fired. You could just continue to take the data, and if anyone asks just tell them. The more I think about it are you sure your entire story is not just a metaphor? Seems very fitting. Last Edited by Stanfiem on 11/07/2012 09:28 AM Stanfiem |
| Saddletramp User ID: 1052341 11/07/2012 09:33 AM ![]() Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The courts say it's legal for cops to lie to you about probable cause, laws, etc... So yeah, this sounds legal in America... Just because you're paranoid don't mean they ain't out to get ya! Paranoid?!?!? I wish! Shit son, we're hell and gone from paranoid... We don't rent pigs... Come and take it! |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 6904235 11/07/2012 09:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Do people who walk into the store have a right to know that you are recording their demographics? No. A lie isn't actionable unless it is a lie to a cop, in which case you are interfering with an investigation, or unless it's a lie on the witness stand after you've been sworn in, or unless it's a lie under oath. So, enjoy the lie. |
| Rrrrright In High Ground User ID: 11417221 11/07/2012 10:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 27226542 11/07/2012 10:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 18581143 11/07/2012 10:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 27226167 11/07/2012 10:51 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It is unbelievable that, that question even need be asked. It is only true for you if you place the laws of man, over the laws of God! And don't think that if you do not believe in God etc., that it does not effect you just because you do not believe, God is not a product of your belief. God's laws are absolute, and the TRUTH is vital in sustaining a living society, lies destroy it. If you value your job and your wage payer over your soul and it's maker... then I am very sorry for you. |