Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 1,840 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 211,164
Pageviews Today: 277,058Threads Today: 44Posts Today: 869
01:56 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27102510
United States
11/07/2012 07:47 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
The store where I work has recently implemented a new system for profiling our customers. Whenever somebody checks out, a screen pops up on our register asking us to enter customer information. They want to know basically the customers age, sex, and whether they're local or a tourist. We have a set of bar codes to scan which allow us to quickly enter each of these options during checkout.

Much of this is guess-work on my part, because under no circumstances am I allowed to ask the customers for any of this information. Which is good, because I wouldn't be comfortable asking for all this personal information anyway. But the company is extremely concerned about the customers discovering what we're doing, as we've been instructed to flat out lie if they notice that we're scanning something other than their purchases. If questioned by a customer, I have been told to give the "standard explanation" that I am entering my employee data. In other words, I'm supposed to tell them that I'm punching in my numbers to make sure I get credit for the sale. The customers are NEVER supposed to be told what we're actually doing. One of the e-mails we got from corporate says that they want feedback on customer reaction, and in parenthesis, they add "hopefully they won't notice."

So, is it legal for my employers to flat out demand that I lie to customers if one of them questions what I'm scanning? They obviously feel like it will look bad to customers. Is there any action I can/should take? I feel like if the company is that worried about this, maybe we shouldn't be doing it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2066658
United States
11/07/2012 07:51 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
What company? If you want respect here, man up, be honest.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27120400
United States
11/07/2012 07:52 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
What company? If you want respect here, man up, be honest.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2066658


really!, give it OP
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 27102510
United States
11/07/2012 07:53 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
What company? If you want respect here, man up, be honest.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2066658


really!, give it OP
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27120400


If you must know, Reebok.
Seeker of Truth
'Be the love that you are.'

User ID: 20607485
United States
11/07/2012 07:57 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
reebok has retail stores?hf
'Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.' - Dr. Seuss
'love has no opposite as it is the divine solvent that ends duality.' - m'Lord
'Be the love that you are' -m'Lord
The amount of love and good feelings you have at the end of your life is equal to the love and good feelings you create during your life.- mine
Yes, the things that others think, say, or do will sometimes hurt you— until they do
not anymore.What will get you from here to there most quickly is total honesty—
being willing to assert, acknowledge, and declare exactly how you feel about a thing.
Say your truth—kindly, but fully and completely. Live your truth, gently, but totally
and consistently. Change your truth easily and quickly when your experience brings
you new clarity.-God

[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 27102510
United States
11/07/2012 07:57 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
What company? If you want respect here, man up, be honest.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2066658


really!, give it OP
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27120400


If you must know, Reebok.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27102510


Actually, I should say Reebok/Rockport, since we're the same company and are run as a combo store. It may be happening at Adidas as well, since they actually own Reebok. They keep that brand separate from Reebok, but the corporate management is the same.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 27102510
United States
11/07/2012 07:58 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
reebok has retail stores?hf
 Quoting: Seeker of Truth


Yep.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26912620
United States
11/07/2012 08:03 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
attornies are legal and they lie, so yes its 'legal' to lie ....
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4428411
United States
11/07/2012 08:06 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
It is legal to lie, but they can not force you to lie under threat of termination. I believe that is against the law.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 27102510
United States
11/07/2012 08:10 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
It is legal to lie, but they can not force you to lie under threat of termination. I believe that is against the law.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4428411


That's interesting, because I get the impression that there would be negative consequences for me were I to tell a customer what we're doing. Is that a federal law or does it change state by state? Google was no help in researching this topic.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27081689
United States
11/07/2012 08:10 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
They know even non-conspiratist would not like this.
They could lose business if people pick up on this.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27120400
United States
11/07/2012 08:13 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
My question is...what the hell could you do with that kinda of limited data...

what good is knowing, "a Kim Kardashian look alike from Podunk, USA just bought a pair of ugly ass sneakers"

I mean what can ya really do with that?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 27102510
United States
11/07/2012 08:19 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
They know even non-conspiratist would not like this.
They could lose business if people pick up on this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27081689


Yeah, the general response from customers would be "that's none of your business" and they know it. I find the whole practice disgraceful myself. Rather than investing time/money/energy into coming up with new products and maybe updating our current products to make them more appealing to customers, they instead invest all of these resources into tracking, profiling, and implementing little tricks to manipulate the consumer. Now they want me to just plain lie to people, which flies in the face of all that "superior customer service" crap they're always feeding me. Seems like there's a point when enough would be enough.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4428411
United States
11/07/2012 08:19 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
It is legal to lie, but they can not force you to lie under threat of termination. I believe that is against the law.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4428411


That's interesting, because I get the impression that there would be negative consequences for me were I to tell a customer what we're doing. Is that a federal law or does it change state by state? Google was no help in researching this topic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27102510


I'd have to look it up, but it seems like asking people to compromise their morals or face termination would be against the law. But then again, this is America we are living in.
Stanfiem

User ID: 25760054
United States
11/07/2012 08:21 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
It is legal to lie, but they can not force you to lie under threat of termination. I believe that is against the law.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4428411

But could they fire him for not doing his job.

OP: Has anyone asked what you are doing yet?

This sounds a little fishy. Why do you need the set of barcodes It seems like there is a much less noticable way to go about taking this information. It is almost as if they are trying to gauge the customers reaction and see if they will notice.
Stanfiem
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4428411
United States
11/07/2012 08:24 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
Evidently, it varies from state to state, but from a simple search I found that it IS in fact legal for a business to require you to lie.

In most states, an employee can be fired for any reason or no reason at all.

The only exemption to this would be if you were able to obtain whistleblower status and that would require manipulating the legalspeak from lying to "fraud."
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 27102510
United States
11/07/2012 08:30 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
My question is...what the hell could you do with that kinda of limited data...

what good is knowing, "a Kim Kardashian look alike from Podunk, USA just bought a pair of ugly ass sneakers"

I mean what can ya really do with that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27120400


The data isn't just limited, but completely inaccurate. One of the requirements is age. Some people don't look their age. Another requirement is local shopper vs. tourist shopper. I'm supposed to know that without asking? Yeah, if they speak with an accent or are exceptionally chatty, I can probably glean that they're not from around here. But I'm not going to be right 100% of the time.

Another thing is, this is just one more thing we have to do at checkout now. On top of recommending additonal shoes, socks, shoe care products, asking for phone number and e-mail, and possibly asking for cancer donations at certain times of the year, now I also have to take a moment to secretly profile the consumer. Corporate has been very clear that we are not to skip any of these steps even if there is a long line. Knowing the employees at my store, many of them will probably just start scanning a random code without looking, just to try and speed things up.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24425839
United States
11/07/2012 08:35 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
If you want to keep your job, keep entering data they request.

When people came for interviews, after they left, the company would mark (for record) the race, etc of person. They did not ask the person, they just kept record for their own reason.

Companies are not asking customers to provide info.

If you are not liking what is required, find another job.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 27102510
United States
11/07/2012 08:38 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
It is legal to lie, but they can not force you to lie under threat of termination. I believe that is against the law.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4428411

But could they fire him for not doing his job.

OP: Has anyone asked what you are doing yet?

This sounds a little fishy. Why do you need the set of barcodes It seems like there is a much less noticable way to go about taking this information. It is almost as if they are trying to gauge the customers reaction and see if they will notice.
 Quoting: Stanfiem


We just started doing this yesterday, so nobody has noticed yet as far as I know. And yes, they did in fact ask us to report the customers reaction to this. They didn't say what the consequences would be if we told the truth to customers, but they probably figure that they don't have to spell it out for me.

I'll be leaving for work in a minute, so won't be able to respond to this thread for a while. But I'd love to hear is anybody has any recommendations for how to handle this ethically. Although I doubt I really have much recourse other than finding another job.

P.S. Thanks for the pin!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3946954
United States
11/07/2012 08:39 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
i have not bought anything from reebok since the early 90's... i liked the "hexacell technology" but they stopped making those shoes around 1994... about the same time their shoes switched to something horribly uncomfortable and resembled something addidas would make... it all makes sense now.
where is your imagination
User ID: 1449133
Australia
11/07/2012 08:39 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
They know even non-conspiratist would not like this.
They could lose business if people pick up on this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27081689


Yeah, the general response from customers would be "that's none of your business" and they know it. I find the whole practice disgraceful myself. Rather than investing time/money/energy into coming up with new products and maybe updating our current products to make them more appealing to customers, they instead invest all of these resources into tracking, profiling, and implementing little tricks to manipulate the consumer. Now they want me to just plain lie to people, which flies in the face of all that "superior customer service" crap they're always feeding me. Seems like there's a point when enough would be enough.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27102510


dude, this could be so much fun. jus enter the opposite of what people really are!!

Enter male when they are female. Enter 80+ when they are under 16. Enter under 16 for all the cheap and nasty crap with no taste, enter 50+ for all the so called cool stuff.

Think how hilarious itll be when they star trying to market to the 50+ crowd thinking that is where their demographic is... this is a goldmine of hilarity!!

you just gotta use your imagination.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3946954
United States
11/07/2012 08:40 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
i have not bought anything from reebok since the early 90's... i liked the "hexacell technology" but they stopped making those shoes around 1994... about the same time their shoes switched to something horribly uncomfortable and resembled something addidas would make... it all makes sense now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3946954


It is legal to lie, but they can not force you to lie under threat of termination. I believe that is against the law.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4428411

But could they fire him for not doing his job.

OP: Has anyone asked what you are doing yet?

This sounds a little fishy. Why do you need the set of barcodes It seems like there is a much less noticable way to go about taking this information. It is almost as if they are trying to gauge the customers reaction and see if they will notice.
 Quoting: Stanfiem


We just started doing this yesterday, so nobody has noticed yet as far as I know. And yes, they did in fact ask us to report the customers reaction to this. They didn't say what the consequences would be if we told the truth to customers, but they probably figure that they don't have to spell it out for me.

I'll be leaving for work in a minute, so won't be able to respond to this thread for a while. But I'd love to hear is anybody has any recommendations for how to handle this ethically. Although I doubt I really have much recourse other than finding another job.

P.S. Thanks for the pin!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27102510


ya, forward my statement to "them".
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 27102510
United States
11/07/2012 08:45 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
If you want to keep your job, keep entering data they request.

When people came for interviews, after they left, the company would mark (for record) the race, etc of person. They did not ask the person, they just kept record for their own reason.

Companies are not asking customers to provide info.

If you are not liking what is required, find another job.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24425839


My objection isn't just about collecting the data. I'm not a fan of that, but there's nothing really illegal/unethical about it exactly. I just think it's a waste of time when there are other things to company could focus on that might have a REAL impact on sales.

My main objection is that they require me to lie if the customer questions me. And yeah, I'm thinking of finding another job. Even if what they're asking of me is legal, it's still disgraceful, in my opinion.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25865505
United States
11/07/2012 09:14 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
reebok has retail stores?hf
 Quoting: Seeker of Truth


Yep.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27102510


Outlet stores...
Stanfiem

User ID: 25760054
United States
11/07/2012 09:20 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
If you want to keep your job, keep entering data they request.

When people came for interviews, after they left, the company would mark (for record) the race, etc of person. They did not ask the person, they just kept record for their own reason.

Companies are not asking customers to provide info.

If you are not liking what is required, find another job.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24425839


My objection isn't just about collecting the data. I'm not a fan of that, but there's nothing really illegal/unethical about it exactly. I just think it's a waste of time when there are other things to company could focus on that might have a REAL impact on sales.

My main objection is that they require me to lie if the customer questions me. And yeah, I'm thinking of finding another job. Even if what they're asking of me is legal, it's still disgraceful, in my opinion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27102510

I think this is not for the company per se. I think it is more to gauge the reactions of the customers and also the employees. Trying to see if the average person is OK with profiling, and also getting blue collar workers used to doing the bidding of the corporate overlords. Another thing to think about is middle management is most likely analyzing employee reaction to the new system as well and reporting their findings to the people above them.

"get in line or GTFO"

There are actually several things they could be testing other than the ASL of the customer. Like the poster above said what is the company really going to do with the age sex and tourist or local.

I would say as far as morality goes either quite now. Or take a stand with the company and refuse but I feel like the only thing this will accomplish is getting fired. You could just continue to take the data, and if anyone asks just tell them.

The more I think about it are you sure your entire story is not just a metaphor? Seems very fitting.

Last Edited by Stanfiem on 11/07/2012 09:28 AM
Stanfiem
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 1052341
United States
11/07/2012 09:33 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
The courts say it's legal for cops to lie to you about probable cause, laws, etc...

So yeah, this sounds legal in America...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6904235
United States
11/07/2012 09:35 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
Do people who walk into the store have a right to know that you are recording their demographics? No.

A lie isn't actionable unless it is a lie to a cop, in which case you are interfering with an investigation, or unless it's a lie on the witness stand after you've been sworn in, or unless it's a lie under oath. So, enjoy the lie.
Rrrrright In High Ground
User ID: 11417221
Germany
11/07/2012 10:24 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
Who lies lose. The most important. Your dignity. Can such loss be ordered?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27226542
United States
11/07/2012 10:39 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
Enter male when they are female. Enter 80+ when they are under 16. Enter under 16 for all the cheap and nasty crap with no taste, enter 50+ for all the so called cool stuff.

 Quoting: where is your imagination 1449133

it would be on camera that he entered incorrect data.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18581143
United States
11/07/2012 10:42 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
doesn't matter - this is now amerika
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27226167
United Kingdom
11/07/2012 10:51 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27102510


It is unbelievable that, that question even need be asked.

It is only true for you if you place the laws of man, over the laws of God!
And don't think that if you do not believe in God etc., that it does not effect you just because you do not believe, God is not a product of your belief.
God's laws are absolute, and the TRUTH is vital in sustaining a living society, lies destroy it. If you value your job and your wage payer over your soul and it's maker... then I am very sorry for you.

News