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Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27227581
Romania
11/07/2012 10:52 AM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
I lie at work for my company, but so do the majority of my suppliers.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27081689
United States
11/07/2012 10:57 AM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
Do people who walk into the store have a right to know that you are recording their demographics? No.

A lie isn't actionable unless it is a lie to a cop, in which case you are interfering with an investigation, or unless it's a lie on the witness stand after you've been sworn in, or unless it's a lie under oath. So, enjoy the lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6904235


The problem with demographics this way is that if they sell their data, most of which is most likely not going to be accurate (do to the employee pushing just any buttons to get the line to go faster without much thought or guessing wrong) then the data collectors sell this flawed info to websites to get a profile on a worker, babysitter, contract, friend, fiance, etc...that may be flawed if that person ever figures out why they weren't hired or were maligned in some way, they would every right to sue for libel. The problem is most will never know what or why something happened.

You're credit report may contain errors and they are supposed to be tracking correctly, imagine someone getting paid minimum wage who hates his job doing this.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27226167
United Kingdom
11/07/2012 11:01 AM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
It is legal to lie, but they can not force you to lie under threat of termination. I believe that is against the law.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4428411


That's interesting, because I get the impression that there would be negative consequences for me were I to tell a customer what we're doing. Is that a federal law or does it change state by state? Google was no help in researching this topic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27102510


Now this where humans have to enforce their own personal power in thwarting the onslaught of business ect. If we allow it we are propagating this hellish system.
Why don't you talk to your boss and ask why you are being required to lie and deceive your customers, ask your boss why he sees fit to compromise your own integrity and morals, ask why. Tell your boss that you feel extremely uncomfortable doing this and that you cannot do it. Record the conversation and if you are excused from the deceitful practice, ask him to write it down and sign it and give it to you.
Stand up for what is right, it is vital.
Maybe it is just an experiment to see how many people tow the line and are willing to join the corruption for the sake of a wage.
I would like to see them in court explain why they sacked you because you refuse to be stressed and lie and deceive.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27226167
United Kingdom
11/07/2012 11:02 AM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
I lie at work for my company, but so do the majority of my suppliers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27227581


And who do you work for?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26867200
United Kingdom
11/07/2012 11:07 AM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
No politician has ever told the truth about anything so yes it's ok to lie.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27227581
Romania
11/07/2012 11:17 AM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
I lie at work for my company, but so do the majority of my suppliers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27227581


And who do you work for?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27226167


a romanian company who works for huge companies in the industiral field. my suppliers are german, french italians...romanians, they all look after thier interesst first. nationality doesn't matter we're all the same.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12590382
Canada
11/07/2012 11:18 AM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
OP, if you ARE going to bring this up with your boss, which I think you should (don't necessarily confront them, but let them know how you feel about it) you should wear personal recording equipment.

Let's face it OP, there's no real room to grow in retail, personally or professionally. Especially not with an athletic shoe company, the very fucking paragon of making money at the cost of all else. These are the same assholes who have children manufacture their products for pennies. They're probably collecting demographics to make extra money, since they probably wouldn't risk angering customers for stats alone.

So, fuck 'em. Talk to them about it, record everything. Or go anonymous, and flood the bastards with negative press. Post this on some business review sites anonymously, people will be pissed. All you have to do is whisper this story to the right ears, and it'll take care of yourself. Just try and keep your own name out of it, or these corporate fucks will try to make it personal.

But you are in a position to do FAR MORE damage to them by sullied reputation, then THEY can do to YOU by taking away a job with no future. These are hard times to find work at all, but that's partially because of unscrupulous money-gouging greedy fucks ruling the economy. Perhaps it's them that need doing away with before things can get better.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26612039
United States
11/07/2012 11:24 AM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
One place I shop a lot always asks for my zip code. It's kind of an innocent question and tells whether I'm local or not. You should not be required to lie.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12590382
Canada
11/07/2012 11:39 AM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
Thought on this a bit more.

Here's what you do OP:

Find an older friend or relative, one who hasn't been to your store before and who the other staff doesn't know. Have them browse around the store a while (preferably on your day off), and then get into line. When they get anywhere near the cash, have them demand to speak to the manager.

When the manager shows up, your friend will say the following:

"Excuse me, but I couldn't help notice you seem to be collecting information every time someone makes a purchase. I see they have a list of barcodes they scan, but never the same one twice. I asked several different employees what this information was for, and they tell me it's their employee numbers being logged. Now look, I've managed several retail locations, and I know you are collecting statistics and furthermore having your staff mislead customers about it. I demand to know what information you are collecting, and furthermore, what the fuck gives you the right to lie to me about it? I'm going to the Better Business Bureau about this."

OP, I'd be at least that pissed off if I actually shopped there. I'd do this for you myself if I lived nearby.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27029291
Australia
11/07/2012 12:33 PM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
print screen the email, get a soft and hard copy and sue.

they are not entitled to profile their customer without their consent.

you win and you get jackpot, more if they are asking you to lie.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27236500
United States
11/07/2012 01:08 PM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
Only in an Islamic State
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18432713
United States
11/07/2012 01:17 PM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
They know even non-conspiratist would not like this.
They could lose business if people pick up on this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27081689


Yeah, the general response from customers would be "that's none of your business" and they know it. I find the whole practice disgraceful myself. Rather than investing time/money/energy into coming up with new products and maybe updating our current products to make them more appealing to customers, they instead invest all of these resources into tracking, profiling, and implementing little tricks to manipulate the consumer. Now they want me to just plain lie to people, which flies in the face of all that "superior customer service" crap they're always feeding me. Seems like there's a point when enough would be enough.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27102510


dude, this could be so much fun. jus enter the opposite of what people really are!!

Enter male when they are female. Enter 80+ when they are under 16. Enter under 16 for all the cheap and nasty crap with no taste, enter 50+ for all the so called cool stuff.

Think how hilarious itll be when they star trying to market to the 50+ crowd thinking that is where their demographic is... this is a goldmine of hilarity!!

you just gotta use your imagination.
 Quoting: where is your imagination 1449133


This is exactly what I would do...then, when questioned by the management later, I would reply: You wanted me to guess. I am not allowed to ask the customer, so you are asking for my opinion.

They would be better off reviewing store security footage and marking that down.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25390958
United States
11/07/2012 01:20 PM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
only if you work for a gummint bureaucrat and he has the power to destroy your life if you dont do what he says.
If the lies start at the tope, they permeate all the way down to the janitors
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27235315
United States
11/07/2012 01:25 PM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
A business cannot demand that you lie to a officer conducting a criminal investigation or in court. Other than that,corporations are all about lies.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27239276
Brazil
11/07/2012 01:32 PM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
If they want you to lie. Lie!

Make it up as you go.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27239276
Brazil
11/07/2012 01:33 PM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
If they want you to lie. Lie!

Make it up as you go.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27239276


The data that is.

And lie to the costumers too.

You will get gratification from it.

Unless lying to anyone is against your principles.
Kirk

User ID: 25384388
United States
11/07/2012 01:35 PM

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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27102510


It is unbelievable that, that question even need be asked.

It is only true for you if you place the laws of man, over the laws of God!
And don't think that if you do not believe in God etc., that it does not effect you just because you do not believe, God is not a product of your belief.
God's laws are absolute, and the TRUTH is vital in sustaining a living society, lies destroy it. If you value your job and your wage payer over your soul and it's maker... then I am very sorry for you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27226167


true words
Worry is a misuse of the imagination.
Kirk

User ID: 25384388
United States
11/07/2012 01:36 PM

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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
Do people who walk into the store have a right to know that you are recording their demographics? No.

A lie isn't actionable unless it is a lie to a cop, in which case you are interfering with an investigation, or unless it's a lie on the witness stand after you've been sworn in, or unless it's a lie under oath. So, enjoy the lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6904235


The problem with demographics this way is that if they sell their data, most of which is most likely not going to be accurate (do to the employee pushing just any buttons to get the line to go faster without much thought or guessing wrong) then the data collectors sell this flawed info to websites to get a profile on a worker, babysitter, contract, friend, fiance, etc...that may be flawed if that person ever figures out why they weren't hired or were maligned in some way, they would every right to sue for libel. The problem is most will never know what or why something happened.

You're credit report may contain errors and they are supposed to be tracking correctly, imagine someone getting paid minimum wage who hates his job doing this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27081689

garbage in, gospel out
our "society"
Worry is a misuse of the imagination.
ThreeSevens
User ID: 977376
United States
11/07/2012 02:15 PM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
Get an on-duty law enforcement official to come in, buy something (for use in official capacity), and ask what's up, can the clerk lie then?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24643310
Czech Republic
11/07/2012 02:15 PM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
Just a way to submit YOU aS a worker by adding one more stupid task to your job. It allows your employer to fire you if you screw up scanning those barcodes.

That computer isn't hooked up to anything OP...

Hahaaaaa (evil laugh)
TheStargazer

User ID: 10537044
United States
11/07/2012 02:18 PM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
Anonymous Coward, is keeping your job a priority for you? You think it's easy to find a job now days. On second thought go ahead and speak your mind to the highest ranking manager you can find. I'll be first in line to replace you.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18645917
United States
11/07/2012 02:23 PM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
The store where I work has recently implemented a new system for profiling our customers. Whenever somebody checks out, a screen pops up on our register asking us to enter customer information. They want to know basically the customers age, sex, and whether they're local or a tourist. We have a set of bar codes to scan which allow us to quickly enter each of these options during checkout.

Much of this is guess-work on my part, because under no circumstances am I allowed to ask the customers for any of this information. Which is good, because I wouldn't be comfortable asking for all this personal information anyway. But the company is extremely concerned about the customers discovering what we're doing, as we've been instructed to flat out lie if they notice that we're scanning something other than their purchases. If questioned by a customer, I have been told to give the "standard explanation" that I am entering my employee data. In other words, I'm supposed to tell them that I'm punching in my numbers to make sure I get credit for the sale. The customers are NEVER supposed to be told what we're actually doing. One of the e-mails we got from corporate says that they want feedback on customer reaction, and in parenthesis, they add "hopefully they won't notice."

So, is it legal for my employers to flat out demand that I lie to customers if one of them questions what I'm scanning? They obviously feel like it will look bad to customers. Is there any action I can/should take? I feel like if the company is that worried about this, maybe we shouldn't be doing it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27102510


It is against the law!! Companies are crazy to make their employees lie. All they have to do is fire one, and guess what.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26919383
United States
11/07/2012 04:22 PM
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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
Thought on this a bit more.

Here's what you do OP:

Find an older friend or relative, one who hasn't been to your store before and who the other staff doesn't know. Have them browse around the store a while (preferably on your day off), and then get into line. When they get anywhere near the cash, have them demand to speak to the manager.

When the manager shows up, your friend will say the following:

"Excuse me, but I couldn't help notice you seem to be collecting information every time someone makes a purchase. I see they have a list of barcodes they scan, but never the same one twice. I asked several different employees what this information was for, and they tell me it's their employee numbers being logged. Now look, I've managed several retail locations, and I know you are collecting statistics and furthermore having your staff mislead customers about it. I demand to know what information you are collecting, and furthermore, what the fuck gives you the right to lie to me about it? I'm going to the Better Business Bureau about this."

OP, I'd be at least that pissed off if I actually shopped there. I'd do this for you myself if I lived nearby.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12590382


^ this...
Snickrot

User ID: 27286490
United States
11/08/2012 12:23 AM

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Re: Is it legal for a business to require employees to lie?
The store where I work has recently implemented a new system for profiling our customers. Whenever somebody checks out, a screen pops up on our register asking us to enter customer information. They want to know basically the customers age, sex, and whether they're local or a tourist. We have a set of bar codes to scan which allow us to quickly enter each of these options during checkout.

Much of this is guess-work on my part, because under no circumstances am I allowed to ask the customers for any of this information. Which is good, because I wouldn't be comfortable asking for all this personal information anyway. But the company is extremely concerned about the customers discovering what we're doing, as we've been instructed to flat out lie if they notice that we're scanning something other than their purchases. If questioned by a customer, I have been told to give the "standard explanation" that I am entering my employee data. In other words, I'm supposed to tell them that I'm punching in my numbers to make sure I get credit for the sale. The customers are NEVER supposed to be told what we're actually doing. One of the e-mails we got from corporate says that they want feedback on customer reaction, and in parenthesis, they add "hopefully they won't notice."

So, is it legal for my employers to flat out demand that I lie to customers if one of them questions what I'm scanning? They obviously feel like it will look bad to customers. Is there any action I can/should take? I feel like if the company is that worried about this, maybe we shouldn't be doing it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27102510



The solution is simple. Lie right back at them. Make up completely false data and send it into the system. It will throw off all their marketing. I do it all the time when i volunteer for surveys.
The economy is doing great. More green shoots each day. Consumer confidence is great. Unemployment is dropping. Stocks are soaring. Europe is saved. I like flouride. Chemtrails are pretty. FEMA camps sound fun. ~Anonymous Coward 1382145

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