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Say goodbye to cheap electricity

 
Kirk

User ID: 25384388
United States
11/07/2012 10:43 AM

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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
windy mills and corn
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 786321


doesn't pencil, not eveb close unless you move to a LITTLE house (two hundred square feet or less)
Worry is a misuse of the imagination.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27212869
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11/07/2012 10:43 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
Trin, nice looking setup, massive and very clean!

Is that bunker-looking structure with the vents and the hatch doors, where the batteries are?

How many square feet of panels is that?
Little Miss Sunshine

User ID: 27154174
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11/07/2012 10:43 AM

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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
With Coal on it's way out they will soon wish for the days where electricity was made for a mere $16 a megawatt.

It will now go to $167 per megawatt in PA. They will see the adjustment on their electric bills in a year or so and cry.

0hio will enjoy an adjustment to $357 per megawatt.


I guess that is what they wanted. They swung towards Obama. There are a lot of Coal miners and Coal mines shutting down ........


Say goodbye to cheap power. Those fools in those states are going to get a rude awakening.


The market-clearing price for new 2015 capacity – almost all natural gas – was $136 per megawatt. That’s eight times higher than the price for 2012, which was just $16 per megawatt. In the mid-Atlantic area covering New Jersey, Delaware, Pennsylvania, and DC the new price is $167 per megawatt. For the northern Ohio territory served by FirstEnergy, the price is a shocking $357 per megawatt.


Read more: [link to www.foxnews.com]
 Quoting: FatalW1shes


"GOING" to get a rude awakening?! My elect
Bill has gone from $127 a month to over $340 a mo.in the last 2 yrs.I have lived here 9 yrs and never seen prices like this!!! Its OBSCENE! When I called DP& L to find out why it has been so high.... she told me the lady that called right before me, broke down and cried and told her that her electr.bill is now more than her mortgage!!! The operator also told me that they have had to start recording all their calls due to death threats. These stupid ppl that voted for that muslim BACK IN... they can have fun when its-20 below and winds are are 35 mph and all their pipes have busted from being frozen!! They are gonna move fwd alright!! Boy, I cant wait til the crying begins! They have nobody to blame but themselves!! What a shame the rest of us have to suffer for their IGNORANCE!!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27212869
United States
11/07/2012 10:47 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
Low energy consumption: every one should move to the equator and live at somewhere between 3000 and 7000 feet, depending on whether they like warm or cool weather. Then that's the weather they will have year round.

A good clue is to live near coffee plantations. Coffee trees need a climate that humans like too, year around.

I am serious. Note that with the slight exception of Kona on Hawaii, and maybe Guam, we don't have that climate here in the USA. Florida isn't far enough south, nor does it have the required elevation.

As I said last night, it's looking like the USA isn't the right platform going forward.
Kirk

User ID: 25384388
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11/07/2012 10:48 AM

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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
On the other hand, in the even longer run if a lot of people install grid-tie solar, it will drive down the market price of power during sunny days, so again you'll be feeding the grid at low prices and often drawing power back at higher prices.

It's nice to have the grid to use as a battery though, where you can feed and withdraw power at will. Then you don't have to maintain your own battery!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27212869


works for a few only. Once more than 15% go solar the fractional generation cost starts to soar from the poor utilization factor. Not a real solution, sadly.
Worry is a misuse of the imagination.
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2012 10:48 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
A $500-$600 electricity bill where I live is absolutely unheard of.

I suspect it is hardly the "norm" for most Americans.

My energy needs are well met with a 6kw solar system, a wood stove and gas stove and range.

My home is in the Rocky mountains, 2300 sq. ft., 3 levels, 2 baths, 4 bedrooms and I have kids.
TTX8K82

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11/07/2012 10:49 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
...


not to mention that the panels themselves will not be producing anywhere near their original capacity.

most are down to 15% of what they did brand new by that much use/exposure to elements...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


the panels are rated for 20 years of output within 10% of original output... i.e. gaurenteed not to lose more than 10% of their power capacity for the next 20 years

the batteries however are only rated for 15 years
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


Those batteries never last 15 years!!!

We have several solar water pumps on our ranches, we finally just threw out the battery set ups and just went to where they only pump when the sun shines...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


these are trojan 2 volt 1046ah wet cells

they are warrantied for 15 years

last even longer they say

you do have to water them ever 3 or 4 months but that's about it as far as maintenance goes

if you don't water them the plates will get destroyed and they won't last obviously

but if you water them they should last..

so far I've had them going 2 or 3 years and they are working fine
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


THX for the info - I am thinking of installing an off grid system
Bluebird

User ID: 730536
United States
11/07/2012 10:50 AM

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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
Really nice set-up Trin. And I agree that the average person can't afford to go green at this phase of the development of technology.

Also manufacturing requires electricity and not knowing how much it is going to cost in this country now is not conducive to anyone starting a business.
One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one.

Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway.

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2012 10:51 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
I was reading a report from an power company about six months ago and........... regardless of the coal powered plant issue............... the study they did concluded that power everywhere in North America is going to see an increase of between 150 and 300% over the next decade and a half, depending on location. They believe it will become a major financial hurdle for most people and especially pensioners on fixed incomes.

The future is not bright. Everyday items are going to be hard for many people to handle. It not only will affect you with your home, the rates will be reflected in the prices of just about everything you do or buy. People really need to get a grip on it and start planning and preparing for what is coming down the pike.
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2012 10:52 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
A $500-$600 electricity bill where I live is absolutely unheard of.

I suspect it is hardly the "norm" for most Americans.

My energy needs are well met with a 6kw solar system, a wood stove and gas stove and range.

My home is in the Rocky mountains, 2300 sq. ft., 3 levels, 2 baths, 4 bedrooms and I have kids.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26487248


*sorry, I meant 3 baths.
Dinkytuff

User ID: 1080388
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11/07/2012 10:55 AM

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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
With Coal on it's way out they will soon wish for the days where electricity was made for a mere $16 a megawatt.

It will now go to $167 per megawatt in PA. They will see the adjustment on their electric bills in a year or so and cry.

0hio will enjoy an adjustment to $357 per megawatt.


I guess that is what they wanted. They swung towards Obama. There are a lot of Coal miners and Coal mines shutting down ........


Say goodbye to cheap power. Those fools in those states are going to get a rude awakening.


The market-clearing price for new 2015 capacity – almost all natural gas – was $136 per megawatt. That’s eight times higher than the price for 2012, which was just $16 per megawatt. In the mid-Atlantic area covering New Jersey, Delaware, Pennsylvania, and DC the new price is $167 per megawatt. For the northern Ohio territory served by FirstEnergy, the price is a shocking $357 per megawatt.


Read more: [link to www.foxnews.com]
 Quoting: FatalW1shes


I think we may even experience a lack of electricity at times. What better way to demoralize, control, scare, and gather the people to you than to put them in the dark.
And by and by Christopher Robin came to an end of things, and he was silent, and he sat there, looking out over the world, just wishing it wouldn't stop.

FEMA Sector VII

I have asked the plants and the plants do not remember, the plants have asked the rocks and the rocks do not recall...even the rocks do not recall. Jak and Daxter Precurser Legacy
Kirk

User ID: 25384388
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11/07/2012 10:57 AM

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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
30kW. Man Trin you are set up there for a nice life now.

To replicate that, I'd have to swap out my crummy 6.5 kW gasoline generator for a 30kW diesel, preferably an old military unit. I wouldn't need a permit for it, but the switch (connect / disconnect from the grid) isn't built for that much either.

I am doing OK here running 4 computes, a TV, and my regular oil heating and propane cooking and well. Even the clothes washer. But when I tried to run the clothes dryer, it just about choked, the voltage went down to 220, etc.

Really I am jealous, but here we don't get as much sun anyway.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27212869


even with my battery storage I still have a 30kw backup propane generator hooked up to 1000 gallons of propane in the ground

in august I never saw the sun and the house kicked over to generator 3 nights that month...

the panels will still generate power when it's cloudy but not enough to keep up with demand so after a week or two of clouds it starts to run low at about 2 or 3 am

solar isn't the miracle solution the green tards make it out to be

sure it's cool if you have the money and are inclined to do such a thing

but just not feasible for normal people
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


Wrong.

It's completely feasible for "normal" people.
It's called a solar lease and you should look into it.
Many large solar companies offer it and it's a "miracle solution" at ZERO money down.

I've had it installed on my home for FREE and my attic roof reinforced for FREE and I pay way less for electricity now and I get a reimbursement at the end of every year for power Ive sold back to the electric company so yes I do laugh all the way to the bank and no I'm not full of shit, friend.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26487248


That's because you aren't counting the solar credit uncle sugar gave the installer. Tax dollars. Your scheme socializes the cost and privatizes the profit, the way Wall Street does math. Redistribution fails because it creates NOTHING. No free lunch, never was - never will be. Without the Federal incentives you would not have your solar lease.
Worry is a misuse of the imagination.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27212869
United States
11/07/2012 11:04 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
On the other hand, in the even longer run if a lot of people install grid-tie solar, it will drive down the market price of power during sunny days, so again you'll be feeding the grid at low prices and often drawing power back at higher prices.

It's nice to have the grid to use as a battery though, where you can feed and withdraw power at will. Then you don't have to maintain your own battery!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27212869


works for a few only. Once more than 15% go solar the fractional generation cost starts to soar from the poor utilization factor. Not a real solution, sadly.
 Quoting: Kirk


From an engineering perspective, this is true. But how will that inefficiency cost be passed on to consumers? In generally higher rates? In taxes on solar panels? Or in hourly pricing that accounts for the marginal generation pricing differences?

In either of the first two, it's a big win to get your solar panels installed now. In the first case you can even install them later, and maybe benefit from cheaper / better panels as they are developed. I've heard thin film is promising.

In the third, you'll end up feeding the grid at cheap prices and drawing at higher prices, but if solar gets cheap enough, I guess it'll probably still be worth it.

And in all cases, apartment dwellers are screwed.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27212869
United States
11/07/2012 11:07 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
30kW. Man Trin you are set up there for a nice life now.

To replicate that, I'd have to swap out my crummy 6.5 kW gasoline generator for a 30kW diesel, preferably an old military unit. I wouldn't need a permit for it, but the switch (connect / disconnect from the grid) isn't built for that much either.

I am doing OK here running 4 computes, a TV, and my regular oil heating and propane cooking and well. Even the clothes washer. But when I tried to run the clothes dryer, it just about choked, the voltage went down to 220, etc.

Really I am jealous, but here we don't get as much sun anyway.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27212869


even with my battery storage I still have a 30kw backup propane generator hooked up to 1000 gallons of propane in the ground

in august I never saw the sun and the house kicked over to generator 3 nights that month...

the panels will still generate power when it's cloudy but not enough to keep up with demand so after a week or two of clouds it starts to run low at about 2 or 3 am

solar isn't the miracle solution the green tards make it out to be

sure it's cool if you have the money and are inclined to do such a thing

but just not feasible for normal people
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


Wrong.

It's completely feasible for "normal" people.
It's called a solar lease and you should look into it.
Many large solar companies offer it and it's a "miracle solution" at ZERO money down.

I've had it installed on my home for FREE and my attic roof reinforced for FREE and I pay way less for electricity now and I get a reimbursement at the end of every year for power Ive sold back to the electric company so yes I do laugh all the way to the bank and no I'm not full of shit, friend.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26487248


That's because you aren't counting the solar credit uncle sugar gave the installer. Tax dollars. Your scheme socializes the cost and privatizes the profit, the way Wall Street does math. Redistribution fails because it creates NOTHING. No free lunch, never was - never will be. Without the Federal incentives you would not have your solar lease.
 Quoting: Kirk


For most people, including me tbh, that translates to "better get in on the deal before that cost is rolled into the price."

Would you shy away from any deal that has an unsustainable government subsidy? Really? If so, you're a better (or less financially constrained) man than I am.
Captain Spaulding
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11/07/2012 11:07 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
what's the big deal?

all you need is $250,000 and a spare football field at your house and you can go solar!

everyones doing it!

it's the way of the future!
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


Doesn't take that much space, I have plenty on my roof and I can sell the excess back to the grid.

Now for those city-dwelling Obama voters who live in apartments, I guess they are truly fucked, but they voted for it so they should enjoy it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27212869


In Cally, a lot of schools have gone solar. I don't think it covers all of the electricity but a good amount of it.

This also removes our dependence on a centralized company for energy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7061022


Same here in Maricopa county Arizona. The local civic centers (courthouse, cop shop, administrative buildings), library's, and a lot of stores are solar. My Mother had it installed in her two bedroom house and pays a $88 per month electric bill even in the summer when the air conditioning is blasting 24/7 for six months. She didn't have to put anything down. The highest others in her neighborhood are paying is around $120 a month. Some had to pay 5 grand up front, and some, like my Mom didn't have to pay anything up front. It also raised her property value.

It took a crew of 8 guys to install the system, three electricians to hook it all up. There's a maintenance crew that comes out ever few months to clean the panels on the roof and check the system. And she still needs bonded/licensed/insured electricians like anyone else.

The people that work in coal are hard working and intelligent. They'll be forced to learn different skills.

I've seen the thin panel technology that's being developed (and suppressed). It's being incorporated into paint, window panes and roofing tiles so your whole house becomes an electrical generator. And that industry NEEDS workers for production, installation and maintenance.

There's even wind turbines that don't use propeller type blades that don't make noise and kill birds and bats. It still requires a work force for the same things.

It's kind of funny to see when there's a wind storm here (lots of them in the edge of the desert) all the houses with panels are lit up, and all the houses that don't have the panels completely dark.

The communities are using the technology for street and traffic lights too. Which still require crews for installation and maintenance.
FatalW1shes (OP)

User ID: 18009481
United States
11/07/2012 11:08 AM

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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
Holy shit Trinity.


That is very impressive.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26487248
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11/07/2012 11:11 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
30kW. Man Trin you are set up there for a nice life now.

To replicate that, I'd have to swap out my crummy 6.5 kW gasoline generator for a 30kW diesel, preferably an old military unit. I wouldn't need a permit for it, but the switch (connect / disconnect from the grid) isn't built for that much either.

I am doing OK here running 4 computes, a TV, and my regular oil heating and propane cooking and well. Even the clothes washer. But when I tried to run the clothes dryer, it just about choked, the voltage went down to 220, etc.

Really I am jealous, but here we don't get as much sun anyway.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27212869


even with my battery storage I still have a 30kw backup propane generator hooked up to 1000 gallons of propane in the ground

in august I never saw the sun and the house kicked over to generator 3 nights that month...

the panels will still generate power when it's cloudy but not enough to keep up with demand so after a week or two of clouds it starts to run low at about 2 or 3 am

solar isn't the miracle solution the green tards make it out to be

sure it's cool if you have the money and are inclined to do such a thing

but just not feasible for normal people
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


Wrong.

It's completely feasible for "normal" people.
It's called a solar lease and you should look into it.
Many large solar companies offer it and it's a "miracle solution" at ZERO money down.

I've had it installed on my home for FREE and my attic roof reinforced for FREE and I pay way less for electricity now and I get a reimbursement at the end of every year for power Ive sold back to the electric company so yes I do laugh all the way to the bank and no I'm not full of shit, friend.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26487248


That's because you aren't counting the solar credit uncle sugar gave the installer. Tax dollars. Your scheme socializes the cost and privatizes the profit, the way Wall Street does math. Redistribution fails because it creates NOTHING. No free lunch, never was - never will be. Without the Federal incentives you would not have your solar lease.
 Quoting: Kirk


Does nothing?

It takes my home about 90% off coal fired plants and uses power from a renewable source.

Fed incentives are hardly a windfall where I live buddy. Sure the solar company gets them with a lease but with life insurance on the system including a multithousand dollar sunny boy inverter that will need replaced every 10 years, I'll take that deal.

I come out WAY ahead and so does the planet and every living thing on it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27213481
United States
11/07/2012 11:14 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
[link to www.youtube.com]


How about down the street?
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 1052341
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11/07/2012 11:18 AM

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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
...


not to mention that the panels themselves will not be producing anywhere near their original capacity.

most are down to 15% of what they did brand new by that much use/exposure to elements...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


the panels are rated for 20 years of output within 10% of original output... i.e. gaurenteed not to lose more than 10% of their power capacity for the next 20 years

the batteries however are only rated for 15 years
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


Those batteries never last 15 years!!!

We have several solar water pumps on our ranches, we finally just threw out the battery set ups and just went to where they only pump when the sun shines...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


these are trojan 2 volt 1046ah wet cells

they are warrantied for 15 years

last even longer they say

you do have to water them ever 3 or 4 months but that's about it as far as maintenance goes

if you don't water them the plates will get destroyed and they won't last obviously

but if you water them they should last..

so far I've had them going 2 or 3 years and they are working fine
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


In my experience with solar wells, battery technology has been the limiting factor for solar...

Curious, is your warranty on a depreciating scale or full replacement cost?!?!?

Ours was a depreciating warranty, only covered about 1/10 of the replacement cost. Replaced batteries after about 3 to 4 years, twice, finally scraped the battery setup and just put in water storage.

I admittedly don't have much experience with the new batteries and the indoor house setups...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 11/07/2012 11:20 AM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Kirk

User ID: 25384388
United States
11/07/2012 11:23 AM

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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
Coal fired plants can be easilly converted to NG which produces less than half the carbon as coal and is cheaper to operate and easier to maintain. NG also produces no ash or mercury. The U.S. has trillions of C.F. Of Ng, enough to last hundreds of years. NG is also abundant throughout the world. Coal still has high value and can produce uncountable other products without the carbon dioxide.
 Quoting: Northman


abundant, yes, but without the economic competition of coal prices will easily soar 10x from the current depressed price.
Worry is a misuse of the imagination.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26487248
United States
11/07/2012 11:24 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
...


the panels are rated for 20 years of output within 10% of original output... i.e. gaurenteed not to lose more than 10% of their power capacity for the next 20 years

the batteries however are only rated for 15 years
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


Those batteries never last 15 years!!!

We have several solar water pumps on our ranches, we finally just threw out the battery set ups and just went to where they only pump when the sun shines...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


these are trojan 2 volt 1046ah wet cells

they are warrantied for 15 years

last even longer they say

you do have to water them ever 3 or 4 months but that's about it as far as maintenance goes

if you don't water them the plates will get destroyed and they won't last obviously

but if you water them they should last..

so far I've had them going 2 or 3 years and they are working fine
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


In my experience with solar wells, battery technology has been the limiting factor for solar...

Curious, is your warranty on a depreciating scale or full replacement cost?!?!?

Ours was a depreciating warranty, only covered about 1/10 of the replacement cost. Replaced batteries after about 3 to 4 years, twice, finally scraped the battery setup and just put in water storage.

I admittedly don't have much experience with the new batteries and the indoor house setups...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


The new Tesla/Solar City battery is a huge advance over this battery setup and it is available today.

Look into it.
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2012 11:25 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
With Coal on it's way out they will soon wish for the days where electricity was made for a mere $16 a megawatt.

It will now go to $167 per megawatt in PA. They will see the adjustment on their electric bills in a year or so and cry.

0hio will enjoy an adjustment to $357 per megawatt.


I guess that is what they wanted. They swung towards Obama. There are a lot of Coal miners and Coal mines shutting down ........


Say goodbye to cheap power. Those fools in those states are going to get a rude awakening.


The market-clearing price for new 2015 capacity – almost all natural gas – was $136 per megawatt. That’s eight times higher than the price for 2012, which was just $16 per megawatt. In the mid-Atlantic area covering New Jersey, Delaware, Pennsylvania, and DC the new price is $167 per megawatt. For the northern Ohio territory served by FirstEnergy, the price is a shocking $357 per megawatt.


Read more: [link to www.foxnews.com]
 Quoting: FatalW1shes


Another thing I'd like to point out (OP) Libs are to stupid to know food prices are tied with the price of gas. So when they go shopping,they don't understand WHY food is becoming really spendy.
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2012 11:27 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
Also, watch fuel prices sore in the coming weeks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23761243

I guess "No Child Left Behind" did not work, in this case.
Kirk

User ID: 25384388
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11/07/2012 11:27 AM

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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
Where do you guys get this 'war on coal' business
Obama has supported the coal industry and particularly oil and gas.

I think coal workers obviously know that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7061022


Oh boy.

What rock have you been hiding under?


Google War on Coal.....What websites do you trust?

I started with Fox News then put one up from the left from CBS.

Here is one from Forbes.


Obama’s preferred strategy has been to implement whatever policies increase the price of energy to American consumers. He proved this by striving mightily to impose a cap-and-trade program on fossil fuels so that “if somebody wants to build a coal-fired plant, the can, but it will bankrupt them, because they’re going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.”

[link to www.forbes.com]

Not convinced?

I don't know how else to explain it to you. Perhaps when you get your electric bill in the future, that has doubled, you can call and argue your point with your power company that your President is coal friendly and your bill should reflect that.


The millions of coal miners being laid off will probably disagree with you as well.
 Quoting: FatalW1shes


Those are scare tactics. Scare tactics by the right wing and you know it.

Obama support clean coal and I guess you know that too.

He just wants them to clean up their shit.

Why don't you want that too?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7061022

another retard commenting about engineering decisions.
Obama said we could, sure Sparky.
Worry is a misuse of the imagination.
Anonymous Coward
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11/07/2012 11:29 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
With that kind of a rise in a utility there will be many elderly that will die each winter.
Good job Obama, killing the elderly!
What great guy!
Kirk

User ID: 25384388
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11/07/2012 11:33 AM

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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
what's the big deal?

all you need is $250,000 and a spare football field at your house and you can go solar!

everyones doing it!

it's the way of the future!
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


Doesn't take that much space, I have plenty on my roof and I can sell the excess back to the grid.

Now for those city-dwelling Obama voters who live in apartments, I guess they are truly fucked, but they voted for it so they should enjoy it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27212869


lol

just because you have a few solar panels on your roof does NOT make you fully energy independent

you have a GRID TIE system

that does NOT provide for all your power needs AT ALL and you know that as you STILL get a power bill

I happen to be 100% off grid and I KNOW what it takes to do it...

Solar is not practical in real world practice

take it from someone who has actually done it

I'm glad I did because I'm self sufficient but for the average person in the average neighborhood it just aint happening
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


Good point Trin. A few points of my own:

1. I am not an average person in an average neighborhood. I know what I'm talking about, about this. I even know more than you do about it, no offense. I've worked in the energy industry and am an electrical engineer.

2. I am not trying to get off the grid with this system. I don't need to, to remove the effect of Obamaprices from my life. All I need to do is, on the average, to feed back the same amount to the grid as I take at other times.

3. I am currently off the grid anyway. I am in the NYC suburbs which, as you've heard, has had some recent weather events. A week after Sandy and I am still running off my gasoline generator.

4. Being off the grid with solar would be nice, but quite expensive because of mainly the batteries to store sufficient power. A grid-tie system, with emergy energy storage via gasoline or propane rather than batteries, seems reasonable to me at current prices.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27212869

You are an electrical engineer and you advocate gasoline powered "storage"? You are as much an engineer as my cat.
What utter rubbish.
Worry is a misuse of the imagination.
Philly Girl
User ID: 26693155
United States
11/07/2012 11:33 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
what's the big deal?

all you need is $250,000 and a spare football field at your house and you can go solar!

everyones doing it!

it's the way of the future!
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


People in Ohio are in for a HUGE surprise.

Obama's war on coal is going to turn a lot of democrats over into republicans. Only it will be too late.


The best way to wake people up is to hit them in their checkbooks and bank accounts...or...



People in Ohio, VA, PA must be rich. Obviously they have spoken and can afford to have their bills double and triple. They can afford the millions of laid off workers joining the unemployment lines in their states due to a decimated industry.

They must love Green energy.
 Quoting: FatalW1shes
No - the people in those states who voted for Obama - most of them don't pay for their utilities anyway - they get theirs free - courtesy of the taxpayer, so what do they care - free is free - and they're too uneducated to realize that the makers can/will carry their burden for only so long. Bye Bye Miss American Pie.
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 1052341
United States
11/07/2012 11:33 AM

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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
...


Those batteries never last 15 years!!!

We have several solar water pumps on our ranches, we finally just threw out the battery set ups and just went to where they only pump when the sun shines...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


these are trojan 2 volt 1046ah wet cells

they are warrantied for 15 years

last even longer they say

you do have to water them ever 3 or 4 months but that's about it as far as maintenance goes

if you don't water them the plates will get destroyed and they won't last obviously

but if you water them they should last..

so far I've had them going 2 or 3 years and they are working fine
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


In my experience with solar wells, battery technology has been the limiting factor for solar...

Curious, is your warranty on a depreciating scale or full replacement cost?!?!?

Ours was a depreciating warranty, only covered about 1/10 of the replacement cost. Replaced batteries after about 3 to 4 years, twice, finally scraped the battery setup and just put in water storage.

I admittedly don't have much experience with the new batteries and the indoor house setups...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


good question on the warranty

I'm not sure on that

were your batteries gel cells?

like you never had to put water in them?

those only last 3-5 years normally anyway
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


Our warranty was a five year depreciating deal, they were nickle cadmium if I remember right, I know they weren't gel cells, we checked the water on them about once a month. They actually looked a lot like Marine batteries, but with more cells, I believe these were six volt batteries. It's been about four or five years since I messed with them.

You have to realize, this was ten years ago, so I'm sure battery tech has come a long ways.

I think the real problem with those batteries was these wells are way out in the country, so they're in outdoor battery boxes. And these boxes were insulated, but I think the temperature variation was hard on them over time. Indoor systems will have a much more constant temp, which will help battery life I'm sure.

When we first put the solar wells in, the panel tech was moving fast, but the battery tech seemed to lag. That may have changed. I get along fine with just pumping during daylight, and water storage, so I haven't kept up with the battery tech as much...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 11/07/2012 11:42 AM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
thyme

User ID: 9143700
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11/07/2012 11:37 AM
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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
That's just great. My whole house is electric except for 2 fireplaces with insulators. Time to put the plastic on the windows and buy wood. It's got to be cheaper than the electric bill.
Kirk

User ID: 25384388
United States
11/07/2012 11:37 AM

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Re: Say goodbye to cheap electricity
With Coal on it's way out they will soon wish for the days where electricity was made for a mere $16 a megawatt.

It will now go to $167 per megawatt in PA. They will see the adjustment on their electric bills in a year or so and cry.

0hio will enjoy an adjustment to $357 per megawatt.


I guess that is what they wanted. They swung towards Obama. There are a lot of Coal miners and Coal mines shutting down ........


Say goodbye to cheap power. Those fools in those states are going to get a rude awakening.


The market-clearing price for new 2015 capacity – almost all natural gas – was $136 per megawatt. That’s eight times higher than the price for 2012, which was just $16 per megawatt. In the mid-Atlantic area covering New Jersey, Delaware, Pennsylvania, and DC the new price is $167 per megawatt. For the northern Ohio territory served by FirstEnergy, the price is a shocking $357 per megawatt.


Read more: [link to www.foxnews.com]
 Quoting: FatalW1shes


you should come down to Texas

we pay about .06c kwh for our business/residence

this state is on a different grid than the rest of the country, and the governor will fight the EPA the whole way down

it DOES matter where you live...and strength in numbers. If you don't think the policies in your state work, go to one where people who think like you are in the majority

at least then if the thing falls apart, you know its because those policies suck, and you take responsibility for it.

The other way, you feel helpless , which is a crappy way to go through life

gltu OP
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14348632


Oh I'm in Fort Worth Texas. There is a train that goes by daily that is full of coal cars full of coal.

The power plant on Lake Arlington is a coal plant....
According to 2005 data from the Energy Information Administration, Texas has 20 operating coal-fired power stations, including 40 generating units, totaling 21,238 megawatts (MW) of capacity. 39 of the generating units are larger than 50MW.

[link to www.sourcewatch.org]


I have no idea how many there are today.


I do know Ohio is 88% coal powered. They are so fucking fucked I want to see the looks on their faces when they see their electric bills. Bastards turned to Obama again. They will soon pay for what they got.
 Quoting: FatalW1shes


My "uncle" told me he saw an add on the tv that is called the "water cigarette". The thing works by using the water to capture smoke into a steam, and therefore doesnot emit smoke into the air. The coal-using companies can do the same thing, but of course, on a grander scale.- yes, size does matter
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27140421


you and your "uncle" would benefit from a course in thermodynamics..........Did you vote for Obama?
Worry is a misuse of the imagination.

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