The 2nd witness of Revelation 11 is the prince of Israel (ADAM) and the greatest of all servants of God

Proverb 9:
8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

The story of Joseph is the story of the last day servant(the 2nd witness of revelation):

I read a very good book on prophecy that I think many would enjoy it's called "Enigmatic Sunrise Todays Prophetic Secrets Revealed" and it talks about the last day servant. Here is one example: The story of Joseph..as christian people are taught that Joseph represents Jesus because the coat of many colors was dipped in goat's blood..the colors represent the many nations and the blood sacrificial of
what Jesus did on calvary. The Pharoah symbolic of GOD the Father and position of greatest authority on earth. Lets consider another idea involving 3 entities. Jesus
represents pharoah, as pharoah was the ruler of the greatest authority on earth at the time.He was also the provider of the bread and nourishment for the life of men. Joseph correctly interpreted the 7 year famine of food, saving the people from physical starvation. This is a foreshadow of the 7 year tribulation when this Joseph(last day servant) will rise up and save the people from spiritual starvation. When Joseph appeared before Pharoah, Joseph told pharoah that God made these things known to him. If Pharoah was symbolic of God, as has been taught by people today then Joseph would have responded "you pharoah, God have given me the interpretation of the dream!" So the first entity is GOD, as Joseph mentions GOD gave him the interpretation. The second entity is Pharoah, symbolic of the ruler of the kingdom and the source of life during the last seven years of the interpreted spiritual famine. A
type of bread of life or another name for Jesus, and he was the head of the kingdom. The third entity was Joseph himself, a servant to pharoah and, King of the kingdom. Pharoah appointed Joseph secondary head of the kingdom. Joseph became leader and commander through his witness, for he correctly interpreted the dream, and by his witness saved many from death. Not by his sacrifice as was the case Jesus bearing the cross, but by his, Josephs' witness was many saved!
Considering the blood of a goat on the coat of many colors. Jesus is not symbolic of the goat of God but he is the Lamb of GOD! why not the blood of a lamb if it was to symbolize Jesus or a ram at least a ram is a male sheep. A goat is a ruminant mammal related to the sheep, this is symbolic of the gentiles! Again we are dealing with a goat even depicted in the story of Jacob, covering his hands, works in goatskin! Did God direct Josephs' brothers to the goat and not to a lamb by mistake? Was God confused and couldn't find a sheep at the time, or perhaps he forgot the difference between a sheep and a goat! I think not!
Even as Joseph's brothers chose the blood of a goat and rejected the blood of a lamb. Even so would come the time when Joseph's brothers the jewish people, would for a second time reject the blood of the Lamb Of GOD! The blood is not the significant thing here it is what the blood symbolizes this is significant!The Word of God states the life of man is in the blood (Gen.9:4-6)....this is just a small portion
of this book..I would recommend it to everyone...it shows this last day servant(2nd witness of revelation) very clearly

Last Edited by waterman on 11/11/2012 11:53 PM

Wow! Where did you come from. There is nothing that you could teach others that would guarantee eternal life. Listening to some man will never give eternal life. If so Jesus would have came down, gave a few speeches and all would have found eternal life. He could have returned to His Father, no blood, no suffering, just a message. Wow at that rate God could have sent an angel with a message and all would have found eternal life. That would have saved Jesus a lot of time, trouble, pain, and suffering! Listen, do all of us, and you a big favor. Stop pretending you're someone and ask Jesus to come into your worthless, helpless, sinful life. Like all of us has done to find the truth of His reality. Then you'll know and understand the eternal life holder, and it certainly is not you! You may think you're one in spirit with your Father, and I believe you are; but it is not the God of the Bible, but the god of this world, that is your father. My lost friend you mock God's Word, and His Sacrifice, to save the lost like you. Search for one title..Child of the Most High..no pretense could be of a higher honor or order! All prophets and holy men before you and after you have always known that it is not words of wisdom that gives eternal life, but sacrifice alone. That my friend has already been accomplished, and no word or words that you speak is going to expunge that wonderious act of eternal life for all who believe.

This is showing the "daughter" of Zion is a besieged city. Israel is always the firstborn son. This "daughter" of Zion is the United States being destroyed

everything is run on computers....these days anyone could hack defense computers, make it look like everything is o.k until a few nukes are detonated a few miles above the middle of u.s and we have an emp and all the grid goes black

Here it is and will be redone with more technology
Ezekiel 21:
21 For the king of Babylon(enemy) stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright(nuclear warheads), he consulted with images(computers), he looked in the liver.
22 At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem(capital)(washington d.c(capital)), to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort.
23 And it shall be unto them as a false divination(computer says everything is fine) in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths(do you solemnly swear to uphold the....): but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken.

Last Edited by waterman on 11/12/2012 12:27 PM

The real nobody(last day servant of God) is the "first born" and that is why it will be given to him first

You claim to be fortified in the truth b/c you follow some Indian traditions. I have known some who claimed to have been followers of Indian, Hopi, Sioux traditions. Now that they are followers of Christ, like waterman, they no long need to be fortified in some kind of truth..they know the truth, and its more than some Indian prophecies and dead grandfathers appearing through the power of demonic spirits. Follow Christ and His teachings. for He is the truth, and get off your high horse. I'm sure you're a good Indian, but a terrible excuse for any sort of Christian!

Here are my thoughts regarding the New Jerusalem.

Since I believe Jacob/Israel will be present during the last days, and that he will be called from the esternmost end of the Asian continent where there are many islands, the New Jerusalem (which is a city coming down from heaven), will most likely be planted near where he lives.

Now here are some facts about the geometry of the New Jerusalem:



This city will be so high, that its ceiling would be inside the exosphere (where the atmosphere will be so thin) if rested on the earth's surface.

The only way to avoid this problem is for the the base of the city to be planted below sea level, and the sea where the city is planted will be dried up.



The sea located at the easternmost end of the Asian continent which is wide enough and deep enough for the New Jerusalem to be planted in is the Philippine Sea:



Note that the Philippine sea has an estimated surface are of 5 million km² and that the base of the New Jerusalem would have been equal to 4.9 million square kilometers, which is almost an exact fit!

Here is a picture of the Philippine Sea:
[link to upload.wikimedia.org]

Good point if it were applicable to this present world and time. That is the point, it will not be in this world, but a new world and a new heaven (atmosphere). So therefore, God can station new Jerusalem anywhere He likes. He seems to prefer Israel. Just saying!

Malachi 4:5-6 Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the Lord

We know from this verse Elijah will come two times.
Once at the great Day of the Lord
Again at the dreadful day of the Lord

The great Day of the Lord was when Jesus our salvation came.
The dreadful Day of the Lord is when judgement comes.

Matthew 17:
10The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”

11Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12But I tell you, Elijah has already came, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

In Matthew 17:11 Jesus says to be sure, Elijah comes(future tense) and will restore all things.....and then goes on to say Elijah already came(past tense) as John the baptist.

Elijah always comes doing 2 things:
1. Forewarning of judgement and a call to repentance
2. Foretelling of something good coming

Elijah pronounced judgement/repentance coming the first time he came.(Ahab and Jezzebel)
Then after he prayed God closed the heavens for 42 months, Then he prayed again 42 months later for rain and it came...(judgement then rain)

John the baptist (spirit of Elijah) same thing happens:
1 John calls for the people to repent because judgement is coming.
2. John calls Jesus the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world(John introduced the greatest thing in the world)

Last day Elijah will forewarn the nation that it is about to come under judgement if they don't repent once again.

Last day Elijah will introduce the last day servant. Just as John was Jesus' forerunner/call to repentance, so this Elijah will be used to call the nation to repentance on a national scale(Elijah will not call the people to repentance on youtube where he may get a half million hits. When God sent Jonah to nivevah the whole nation knew they needed to repent not just 10 percent. So watch for one that addresses the whole nation to step up very soon.

Last Edited by waterman on 11/12/2012 06:11 PM

Now here is a song =). Haven't listened to it in a while, but since I've been here and should all the biblical stuff about the ending of the world / big changes etc be true. It sheds a slightly different light on his lyrics.



Last Edited by e.Y.e on 11/12/2012 11:22 PM

There are 2 houses of Israel the jew and the (gentile christian)

The bible has a pattern of dealing with the physical and then the spiritual

The reason gentiles were offered salvation was to make the Jews jealous

When you read Isaiah, Jeremiah and the prophets, those books are showing you first the physical Israel and they did exactly what america is doing

In the end you can read Isaiah, Jeremiah and the prophets, and see what will happen to spiritual Israel(United States)

America is referred to as Jacob in the book of Isaiah.
Jacob later was changed to the name Israel.

Jacob was described as a liar, deceiver, and a worm, but after he wrestled with the angel he became Israel.

This is a foreshadow of America. When judgement comes they are like Jacob and will wrestle with the angel but after a 42 month period of the furnace of affliction and the destruction of all their idols they have a change of heart and will be known as Israel

Then will come the 7 year tribulation(7 year famine of the word of God) and just as God raised up Moses in the time of the children of Israel being slaves, so again will he raise up a moses and send an elijah with him(two witnesses) to lead the children of God.

In Isaiah the spiritual Israel is called Jacob and becomes Israel is a nation but it is also the servant that comes at the end of the 42 month furnace of affliction the United States goes through, because the servant goes through the furnace of affliction also because he starts out a Jacob(deceiver, liar, worm) but then becomes an Israel(Gods first born)

Last Edited by waterman on 11/13/2012 09:46 AM

I heard a good story on the radio:

It said Eskimos take a knife and put seal blood on it
Then they freeze it and keep adding layers of blood and freezing it, until it makes a blood popsicle.

Then the eskimo plants the knife blade sticking straight up.

A wolf comes and starts licking the blood popsicle.
The wolf becomes so crazy for the taste of the blood that it doesn't realize it has licked down to the knife blade and now the blood it is tasting is its own blood as the knife slices the wolfs tongue. The wolf bleeds to death and that is how to hunt a wolf with a blood popsicle.

The moral of the story is this is how sin will destroy your life. It starts out pleasurable and you think there is no way you could get hurt, but then that sin consumes your life and sooner or later you have bled to death from the thing that you thought would never hurt you.

Got sin in your life?(of course we all do), but to be forgiven of those sins and get a new start is what Jesus Christ offers. The bible says without faith it is impossible to please God. Your faith part is to believe Jesus Christ(the Son of God) died on the cross to be a perfect atonement for the sins of the world and that he rose from the grave 3 days later and is seated at the right hand of God the father. If you prayed to God that you want a new start through Jesus Christ, repent of your sins(ask for forgiveness) and turn from those sins to the best of your ability. The bible say when you ask Jesus into your life you become new person and the spirit of God lives in you to help you to be a child of God and to live a holy life....God Bless and read your bible, it is a love letter from God, it is a book of secrets and it has the instructions on how to walk with God. A good place to start would be Matthew, Mark, Luke or John as these 4 books explain the good news of what Jesus did for you.

I've always have seen spiritual Israel as a more global thing, not dependent on territory, the borders of countries can be viewed as cracks in the world, laying claim to land they don't really own, but sure acting like it's the case.

I agree spiritual Israel is global, but for the majority of the ones that make up spiritual Israel they are going to be in the land of milk and honey just as God promised would happen. Just because we have a country called Germany doesn't mean only people living in that country are Germans but it does mean the vast majority live there..the same is with the United States, at one time they were made up of a christian nation. Now they are a mixture of everything and they have kicked God out of the country, so God won't just give up on his children, but he will allow the enemy to come and a furnace of affliction will come and the people will go into captivity until they turn back to God, just as it always happens when the people turn from God.

I try to show 2 things in this thread:

1. The destruction of Israel in Isaiah, Jeremiah, and the prophets is a rehearsal for the United States.

The bible has a pattern of doing the physical first and the spiritual second. We saw physical Israel in those books. The same thing is happening to the United States, first Israel turned from God. Then took God out of the land, just as the U.S has.

The physical Israel saw the wrath of God come and were taken away into slavery when the enemy came and Israel had no God to protect them. It doesn't matter how powerful your country is, if God is against you then you will lose.

If physical Israel was taken into captivity do you not think spiritual Israel(United States) will be taken into captivity also?




The 2nd thing I try to show is that God raises up a deliverer, just as God always does when calamity comes. This servant will be Gods greatest of all servants and will claim to be the first begotten of Jesus. If you read through the thread you will see this last day servant builds the temple of God, and again God already had a physical temple 2 times and they were destroyed, this temple the last day servant is building is a spiritual temple that can't be destroyed....please read through the thread and if you like it......share it on facebook by clicking on the link in the right hand corner of the first page, also share it on twitter by doing the same thing in the twitter link.....thank you

Last Edited by waterman on 11/13/2012 07:01 PM

Hmm taken away into slavery or held captive in slavery?

I think the USA may be heading down the road into the second.

The ones held captive in slavery will be of the fema camp victims within this nation. This is of Satan's wrath against a once Godly nation, who allowed wickedness to rule over them. These captives will be held in this land, for a short season,(6 to 9 months). Many if not most will be raped, starved, and tortured to death. Sadly men of evil will not come to their aid nor fight against wicked deeds. Such men only live in fear of their own safety, and will not help their fellows in captivity at that time.

The second group taken into slavery will be after this nation is attacked by many nuclear weapons by a great nation. This will be within a year period from now, thus the end of the fema camps. The second group taken away in slavery is God's wrath against a rebellious people, and all idols will be burned away from the land. This second group will be purposed to suffer in captivity for two full years,(2yrs. 9mos)two full years. This captivity will be in other nations, but their full servitude must be forty and two months, even as waterman has testified also. They (Jacob)(U.S.A.) even runs to their brother nation, (Canada), to escape the enemy, but their brother will not hide them or welcome them into their border,(Obad.6-15). Do not be mislead by names of regions, for they are germane only through discernment.

God's purpose for this group is to bring forth a holy people, void of all idols, repentant of all sins, seeking God in all mercy. A nation torn and a people crying out in their captivity will both be heard by a merciful God, and He shall show His favor once again to a people and a nation forgotten by all, but only after the full second year. These are the times of Jacob's trouble (42 mos.), many will be saved and many will not. Those who seek to save their lives shall be lost! Hiding in other countries, storing up in hidden lands will not allow you to escape the wrath of God. Those who trust in God will be shown the path of eternal life! After that time, the Tribulation period commences! Pray you have escaped in God's grace by then.

This is why many think the rapture comes after the tribulation times. Others say no, but before those 7 years. Both are correct. What they failed to see is the time of Jacob's trouble is also part of a tribulation period for the church, this nation, this world. For the destruction of the United States is going to lead the World into starvation, death, wars, and the Anti- Christ. First though God must come forth to receive a bride, holy, spotless, wrinkled free. Only heat takes away wrinkles, only hot water takes away spots. So after these troubles, then the rapture, but first great sorrow will come and hundreds of millions must perish, most will be the people of this nation to start.

However, all those who are trusting in the rapture to save them, are lost already. Jesus Christ alone is your salvation. Trusting anything outside of Him, will not allow you an easy escapism to the good, pleasant, comfortable eternity you so much desire! God knows the heart, trusting in a happening (rapture) is not the salvation Christ paid so dearly for. Jesus wants you to trust in Him. He can get you home safely. Those who will trust in the rapture are deceived within their own heart. The heart is evil, and desperately wicked, above all things, who can know it. Rejoice in the thought of the rapture, but put no trust in a happening. This is a form of Idol worship and God is not in this! No image, no sign, no play on words can deceive His sheep. His sheep hears His voice, and they alone cannot be deceived. If you can not trust in Christ first, and live for Him now. How shall you stand in the days of evil, hate, murder, rape and starvation. How will you love your enemy, and if not, how will you please Christ?