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The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26473972
United Kingdom
11/11/2012 08:15 AM
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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
Well this is stupid to argue about cremations since we know for fact that prisoners were dying daily from disease, and their bodies had to be burnt.

That does not automatically point to war crimes being committed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26473972

Exactly and btw... Assuming that the calculated capacity of the known crematoriums in that camp holds water, one should actually be excepting that all chimneys would be blowing smoke non-stop 24-7, just in order to keep up with what would be the death rate of a given town holding a population the size of the amount prisoners... in peacetime....
Problem is though, that the mainstream will then just claim that this is the reason for the need of the aledged mass graves...

But then, why the focus on smoke and chimneys in the first place and not the mass graves? Not enough of a horror factor in mass graves alone?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6603467


The fact that nobody could ever actually find any "mass graves" might have something to do with it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27510184


[link to www.dailymail.co.uk]

I suggest reading this whole article before you make such claims.
 Quoting: Dutch Rebel 27260028


And if you had taken your own advice you would have read this....."As Jewish religious law forbids disturbing burial sites"

Convenient eh.

Could just be a trench where the rubbish from the camp was buried.....like the landfill sites we have everywhere.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27510184
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11/11/2012 08:19 AM
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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
Well this is stupid to argue about cremations since we know for fact that prisoners were dying daily from disease, and their bodies had to be burnt.

That does not automatically point to war crimes being committed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26473972

Exactly and btw... Assuming that the calculated capacity of the known crematoriums in that camp holds water, one should actually be excepting that all chimneys would be blowing smoke non-stop 24-7, just in order to keep up with what would be the death rate of a given town holding a population the size of the amount prisoners... in peacetime....
Problem is though, that the mainstream will then just claim that this is the reason for the need of the aledged mass graves...

But then, why the focus on smoke and chimneys in the first place and not the mass graves? Not enough of a horror factor in mass graves alone?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6603467


The fact that nobody could ever actually find any "mass graves" might have something to do with it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27510184


[link to www.dailymail.co.uk]

I suggest reading this whole article before you make such claims.
 Quoting: Dutch Rebel 27260028


A: The article says 'thousands of bodies'

Thousands is not 6 million.

B: Who really cares anyway. I certainly don't.

Communist Jews murdered well over 30 million Orthodox Christians in the Soviet Union.

When is your gang of criminals going to apologize for THAT?
Harbringer

User ID: 27209687
11/11/2012 08:21 AM
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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
Well this is stupid to argue about cremations since we know for fact that prisoners were dying daily from disease, and their bodies had to be burnt.

That does not automatically point to war crimes being committed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26473972

Exactly and btw... Assuming that the calculated capacity of the known crematoriums in that camp holds water, one should actually be excepting that all chimneys would be blowing smoke non-stop 24-7, just in order to keep up with what would be the death rate of a given town holding a population the size of the amount prisoners... in peacetime....
Problem is though, that the mainstream will then just claim that this is the reason for the need of the aledged mass graves...

But then, why the focus on smoke and chimneys in the first place and not the mass graves? Not enough of a horror factor in mass graves alone?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6603467


The fact that nobody could ever actually find any "mass graves" might have something to do with it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27510184


[link to www.dailymail.co.uk]

I suggest reading this whole article before you make such claims.
 Quoting: Dutch Rebel 27260028


The Daily Mail :) and who OWNS it my dear chap :)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6603467
Denmark
11/11/2012 08:25 AM
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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
Well this is stupid to argue about cremations since we know for fact that prisoners were dying daily from disease, and their bodies had to be burnt.

That does not automatically point to war crimes being committed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26473972

Exactly and btw... Assuming that the calculated capacity of the known crematoriums in that camp holds water, one should actually be excepting that all chimneys would be blowing smoke non-stop 24-7, just in order to keep up with what would be the death rate of a given town holding a population the size of the amount prisoners... in peacetime....
Problem is though, that the mainstream will then just claim that this is the reason for the need of the aledged mass graves...

But then, why the focus on smoke and chimneys in the first place and not the mass graves? Not enough of a horror factor in mass graves alone?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6603467


The fact that nobody could ever actually find any "mass graves" might have something to do with it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27510184


AFAIK there where mass graves in that camp, but they came late... As in, very very late and have therefore since been logically connected with 'it must be the corpses of the ones that couldn't/wouldn't be evacuated westward who then got killed off so that they couldn't tell any tales'
But in that case... How come that the ruskies could liberate 7000 prisoners when they arrived?
Why would the Germans follow such a logic and then on the other hand leave 7000 prisoners behind anyway?
I dunno, this is just plain curious...
Thor's Hamster

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11/11/2012 08:28 AM
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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
Great thread, OP. I look forward to posting on it a little later today when I have more time. 5*s.
Apollo astronauts couldn't have passed through Van Allen's Belt. Van Allen wore suspenders.
Une époque formidable

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France
11/11/2012 08:30 AM

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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
Gas Chamber Doors - A Comparison in Photos

[link to www.historiography-project.com]

Keep in mind that Cyanidrique acid (Zyklon B) is highly volatile
"Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers."

Voltaire
A_Historian (OP)

User ID: 22596999
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11/12/2012 07:20 PM
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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.


Yeah, unless you'll be able to show links to the other 10's of thousends of pictures you claim are taken, I'll stick to the number of approx 30.

Funny, because both links you have attached as proof, are in line with THAT number, and not the number you claim.

Again, Dino Brugioni clearly states the following:

In retrospect, it is a fact that by the time the Soviet Army reached Auschwitz on January 27, 1945, the Allies had photographed the Auschwitz-Birkenau Extermination Complex at least 30 times.



He doesn't state he had access of 30 photo's of Auschwitz, no, he clearly states that all in all the allies had photographed Auschwitz at leat 30 times by the time the Russians reached it.

Then look at your second link.

On April 4th, 1944, a Mosquito plane from 60 Photo Recon Squadron of the South African Air Force flew out of Foggia base in Southern Italy to photograph the factory. It was the IG Farben factory at Monowitz, only 4km from Birkenau. In order to ensure complete coverage of the target, it was common practice to start the camera rolling ahead of time, and stop it slightly over time. As a result, the Auschwitz camp was photographed for the first time

It clearly states that on April 4th, 1944, Auschwitz was photographed for THE FIRST TIME. You claim it has been photographed from late 1941.

Your link goes on giving preciesly 9 dates on which Allied airplanes took pictures from Auschwitz, the last one being January 14th, 1945.

So, the links YOU give to prove your theory of tens of thousands of pictures taken from the end of 1941, actually show the first picture was taken in April 1944, and give evidence of only 9 flights taking pictures, and approx 30 pictures being available.

Now, let's have a look at the photo's on the Auschwitz album link. Look at this picture.

[link to www1.yadvashem.org]

In the top right of the pic, you can see smoke.

Now you have to take 2 things in account. In general the planes were flying at about 27.000 ft!! The chimney's at Auschwitz were approximately 8 meters tall. A chimney that size will produce enough smoke clearly visible for people on the ground / in the camp, but not enough smoke to be clearly visible from 27.000 ft.
 Quoting: Dutch Rebel


We can agree to disagree on the photo issue.
One thing I did not realize is that the cameras were triggered manually rather than as a projector type operation. There is no way for me to prove that thousands of pictures were taken but even the US National Archives
has more than thirty that have been declassified.

If the government admitted to have taken photos of Auschwitz earlier on then the whole issue of the rubber crisis and the fact that the photos show absolutely no indication of abuse or murder of the prisoners would surface.

Here are about ninety.
[link to arcweb.archives.gov]

Once on the results page click on the digital images link and they will show.

The key pictures for this discussion will have been taken of Birkenau during the summer of 1944. That was the time when the killing of the Hungarian Jews was alleged to have been at its high point.

However, looking at the images show nothing out of the ordinary, and the smoke you said you saw...
I'll leave that up to the readers to decide if they see it as well.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27623079
United States
11/12/2012 07:41 PM
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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
Problem with the dubmshit is people dont know what a "white" person or a "jewish person", or a aryan is aparently,

The aryan marches the jewish peoples to death, then has a little bulshivist free for all,
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

They are known as the replacement killers, the decimate and take what is not thiers. It is the hidden force behind Christianity, many today dont understand it is indeed and was the Christians in germany that murdered the jews. It is referred to in thier book of genocides as "I will give to you houses you did not build and wells you did not dig" a promice or covenant made with the fake jews or synagog of satan in the bible.

You can easily look at nazi propaganda, and the famous aryan propaganda, but we now know the aryan is a dark skinned mad from the desert and western asia, known as cauc-asian. The baphomet (upside down) bs you know as jewish people today are aryan, caucasian, black haired man created by zeus, the fallen son of all religions. You find him with all his faces on lord shivas belt known as the destroyer of worlds.


The true jewish person you see time and time again, but never on tv, nor public places for he was caste down forever remember. He is the reddish blond haired man being burnt time and time again, even now, as seen in the bank of america murals, and the dia murlas by him being missing. He has standard genetic traits you see in the coffins but not on the dancing youth.

This burning is the christian wheat from the chaff bs, pluck up the "weeds" and burn them. Thanks for playing, you have decimated all that was good and holy on this planet. Next stop, this planet become mars like, this the last stop of these great fallen angels of the book known as aryan.
G. House

User ID: 27617126
United States
11/12/2012 08:16 PM

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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
I know it is very difficult to speak and discuss about this Topic,
let me tell you that you look just for the Extremes
but forget that all the single Points accumulate!

Yes, there was "Death Marches" and Yes, there was "Camp-Evacuations",
Germany thought they need all this Work Force
because all the German Soldiers (Males) was already death or in PoW-Camps!

But so many People was weak already after all this Torture
and when they started it was Winter-Time,
there was no Food and not even hot Water.
Many People had only simple Clothes and many not even had Shoes.

It was the final Point for many People!
 Quoting: the mighty Atom


You are missing the entire point about the marches.
They were not meant to kill the prisoners or use them as a work force in another camp....they were meant to save them
Germany gave their word that they would evacuate the prisoners ahead of the approaching Red Army....Why?

Because the communist prisoners knew that to be turned over to the Red Army meant death and if they were Russian Army POW's meant death for their families as well. Earlier on in the war, particularly at the onset of Barbarossa, Red Army troops surrendered by the tens of thousands overwhelming the Nazi camp system. some of the reasons for this surrender was because Stalin purged the Army leadership during the thirties, and the troops no longer trusted him.
In addition, due to the mass murder of millions of his own people, the common man no longer trusted him either since no family was fully spared from the loss of loved ones.

As a result of these mass surrenders, Stalin enacted Stavka Orders which are essentially the same as Executive Orders given by Obama today.

Stalin's orders were to put a stop to what he considered cowardice among his army. Basically, any troop who surrendered or was captured was considered a traitor and the penalty was death. When that was not sufficient he enacted another that carried the penalty to the families.

No one wanted to return to the Soviet Union because certain death awaited them.

Read here. [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Quote:
The shtrafbats were created by Joseph Stalin on July 1942, via Stavka Order No. 227

Order No. 227 was a desperate effort to re-instill discipline after the panicked routs of the first year of combat with Germany. The order用opularized as the "Not one step back!" This Order introduced severe punishments, including summary execution, for unauthorized retreats.


Regarding the evacuation of the camps...the prisoners were given a choice to leave with the Germans or remain at the camp awaiting the Red Army.
Reread the telegrams I posted and you will see the Germans were true to their word.

The Germans told the prisoners that those who were in the infirmaries will be abandoned to the Russians and that only the healthy prisoners will be required to leave Auschwitz. However, a rumor spread among the prisoners that the Germans were really going to kill all of the patients before they left.

In his book "Night" Elie Wiesel tells us that he could have stayed in the hospital and that he also could have managed to have his father admitted to the hospital and then waited for the Russians. He tells us that he persuaded his father to allow themselves to be evacuated with the healthy prisoners.

He wrote the following regarding his decision to join the Germans on the march out of Auschwitz:

The choice was in our hands. For once we could decide our fate for ourselves. We could both stay in the hospital, where I could, thanks to my doctor, get him (his father) entered as a patient or nurse. Or else we could follow the others. "Well, what shall we do, father?" He was silent. "Let's be evacuated with the others," I told him.
The rumors turned out to be false. The Germans did leave the patients behind unharmed in the camp infirmaries.


The Wiesels joined the exodus of prisoners marching in the snow. The prisoners had been allowed to pile on extra layers of clothing before they left by the Germans.

Among those who stayed were Primo Levi author of Survival in Auschwitz and Otto Frank, father of Anne Frank.

In all there were about 6000 prisoners left behind.

Here is a first hand account of an interview with a survivor named John Mandel. Mr. Mandel participated in the death march. You can read the text of his interview or listen directly to the audio.
[link to holocaust.umd.umich.edu]

Here in extensive detail is an article from the Holocaust Research Project regarding the marches. [link to www.holocaustresearchproject.org]

Comments welcome
 Quoting: A_Historian


Yeah the Germans were great humanitarians concerned with the well being of their prisoners.

These are approximate numbers as EXACT numbers are impossible at this point but...

5.7 million Russian soldiers were taken captive by the Germans in WWII.

3.5 million Russian soldiers died in captivity.

Great stewardship there, great compassion for their well being.

You seem to think the Germans would be truthful in stating their intentions through back channels?

What kind of BS are you trying to spout?

It was WRONG for the Germans to round up the Jewish people in the first place let alone whatever they did to them.

That's about all that really needs to be said about the matter.

You've never watched the films? Of when the Allies first entered the death camps? Were they ALL contrived? Ever read the accounts of when they made the local townspeople come in to bury the bodies? Or are you just selective in what you "research"?
"Everybody lies."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27418740
United States
11/12/2012 08:37 PM
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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
I know it is very difficult to speak and discuss about this Topic,
let me tell you that you look just for the Extremes
but forget that all the single Points accumulate!

Yes, there was "Death Marches" and Yes, there was "Camp-Evacuations",
Germany thought they need all this Work Force
because all the German Soldiers (Males) was already death or in PoW-Camps!

But so many People was weak already after all this Torture
and when they started it was Winter-Time,
there was no Food and not even hot Water.
Many People had only simple Clothes and many not even had Shoes.

It was the final Point for many People!
 Quoting: the mighty Atom


You are missing the entire point about the marches.
They were not meant to kill the prisoners or use them as a work force in another camp....they were meant to save them
Germany gave their word that they would evacuate the prisoners ahead of the approaching Red Army....Why?

Because the communist prisoners knew that to be turned over to the Red Army meant death and if they were Russian Army POW's meant death for their families as well. Earlier on in the war, particularly at the onset of Barbarossa, Red Army troops surrendered by the tens of thousands overwhelming the Nazi camp system. some of the reasons for this surrender was because Stalin purged the Army leadership during the thirties, and the troops no longer trusted him.
In addition, due to the mass murder of millions of his own people, the common man no longer trusted him either since no family was fully spared from the loss of loved ones.

As a result of these mass surrenders, Stalin enacted Stavka Orders which are essentially the same as Executive Orders given by Obama today.

Stalin's orders were to put a stop to what he considered cowardice among his army. Basically, any troop who surrendered or was captured was considered a traitor and the penalty was death. When that was not sufficient he enacted another that carried the penalty to the families.

No one wanted to return to the Soviet Union because certain death awaited them.

Read here. [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Quote:
The shtrafbats were created by Joseph Stalin on July 1942, via Stavka Order No. 227

Order No. 227 was a desperate effort to re-instill discipline after the panicked routs of the first year of combat with Germany. The order用opularized as the "Not one step back!" This Order introduced severe punishments, including summary execution, for unauthorized retreats.


Regarding the evacuation of the camps...the prisoners were given a choice to leave with the Germans or remain at the camp awaiting the Red Army.
Reread the telegrams I posted and you will see the Germans were true to their word.

The Germans told the prisoners that those who were in the infirmaries will be abandoned to the Russians and that only the healthy prisoners will be required to leave Auschwitz. However, a rumor spread among the prisoners that the Germans were really going to kill all of the patients before they left.

In his book "Night" Elie Wiesel tells us that he could have stayed in the hospital and that he also could have managed to have his father admitted to the hospital and then waited for the Russians. He tells us that he persuaded his father to allow themselves to be evacuated with the healthy prisoners.

He wrote the following regarding his decision to join the Germans on the march out of Auschwitz:

The choice was in our hands. For once we could decide our fate for ourselves. We could both stay in the hospital, where I could, thanks to my doctor, get him (his father) entered as a patient or nurse. Or else we could follow the others. "Well, what shall we do, father?" He was silent. "Let's be evacuated with the others," I told him.
The rumors turned out to be false. The Germans did leave the patients behind unharmed in the camp infirmaries.


The Wiesels joined the exodus of prisoners marching in the snow. The prisoners had been allowed to pile on extra layers of clothing before they left by the Germans.

Among those who stayed were Primo Levi author of Survival in Auschwitz and Otto Frank, father of Anne Frank.

In all there were about 6000 prisoners left behind.

Here is a first hand account of an interview with a survivor named John Mandel. Mr. Mandel participated in the death march. You can read the text of his interview or listen directly to the audio.
[link to holocaust.umd.umich.edu]

Here in extensive detail is an article from the Holocaust Research Project regarding the marches. [link to www.holocaustresearchproject.org]

Comments welcome
 Quoting: A_Historian


Yeah the Germans were great humanitarians concerned with the well being of their prisoners.

These are approximate numbers as EXACT numbers are impossible at this point but...

5.7 million Russian soldiers were taken captive by the Germans in WWII.

3.5 million Russian soldiers died in captivity.

Great stewardship there, great compassion for their well being.

You seem to think the Germans would be truthful in stating their intentions through back channels?

What kind of BS are you trying to spout?

It was WRONG for the Germans to round up the Jewish people in the first place let alone whatever they did to them.

That's about all that really needs to be said about the matter.

You've never watched the films? Of when the Allies first entered the death camps? Were they ALL contrived? Ever read the accounts of when they made the local townspeople come in to bury the bodies? Or are you just selective in what you "research"?
 Quoting: G. House


They were, actually.

How many German soldiers did the USSR take captive?

It's pretty hard to feed prisoners when allied bombing have destroyed all you food supply routes and your citizens are even starving.

What kind of BS are YOU trying to spout?

They rounded up J-ews because: Firstly, because all Jews of the world declared financial war on Germany. Secondly, Jews in Germany stabbed Germany in the back and directly caused the German loss in WW1. Thirdly, after WW1 Jewish banks in Germany stole nearly all the remaining wealth in Germany. Fourthly, Jewish communists constantly tried to overthrow the German government to genocide Whites just like they did in Russia. Lastly, Jews where totally overrepresented in German government, they own half the media, all the banks, and made up 3/4 of all German Judges.

Films don't mean shit, it's common knowledge that J-ews own all the media in the US. Jews own 96% of all the world's media and spin nearly everything in media to be pro-Jewish. They also all the book publishing houses and use that influence to twist history into being pro-jewish. It you really believe any of the shit spewing out of your idiot box, why are you here?
violentoppisition

User ID: 10411349
United States
11/12/2012 08:45 PM
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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
lol
hide it
like they could if it were real
G. House

User ID: 27617126
United States
11/12/2012 08:49 PM

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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
I know it is very difficult to speak and discuss about this Topic,
let me tell you that you look just for the Extremes
but forget that all the single Points accumulate!

Yes, there was "Death Marches" and Yes, there was "Camp-Evacuations",
Germany thought they need all this Work Force
because all the German Soldiers (Males) was already death or in PoW-Camps!

But so many People was weak already after all this Torture
and when they started it was Winter-Time,
there was no Food and not even hot Water.
Many People had only simple Clothes and many not even had Shoes.

It was the final Point for many People!
 Quoting: the mighty Atom


You are missing the entire point about the marches.
They were not meant to kill the prisoners or use them as a work force in another camp....they were meant to save them
Germany gave their word that they would evacuate the prisoners ahead of the approaching Red Army....Why?

Because the communist prisoners knew that to be turned over to the Red Army meant death and if they were Russian Army POW's meant death for their families as well. Earlier on in the war, particularly at the onset of Barbarossa, Red Army troops surrendered by the tens of thousands overwhelming the Nazi camp system. some of the reasons for this surrender was because Stalin purged the Army leadership during the thirties, and the troops no longer trusted him.
In addition, due to the mass murder of millions of his own people, the common man no longer trusted him either since no family was fully spared from the loss of loved ones.

As a result of these mass surrenders, Stalin enacted Stavka Orders which are essentially the same as Executive Orders given by Obama today.

Stalin's orders were to put a stop to what he considered cowardice among his army. Basically, any troop who surrendered or was captured was considered a traitor and the penalty was death. When that was not sufficient he enacted another that carried the penalty to the families.

No one wanted to return to the Soviet Union because certain death awaited them.

Read here. [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Quote:
The shtrafbats were created by Joseph Stalin on July 1942, via Stavka Order No. 227

Order No. 227 was a desperate effort to re-instill discipline after the panicked routs of the first year of combat with Germany. The order用opularized as the "Not one step back!" This Order introduced severe punishments, including summary execution, for unauthorized retreats.


Regarding the evacuation of the camps...the prisoners were given a choice to leave with the Germans or remain at the camp awaiting the Red Army.
Reread the telegrams I posted and you will see the Germans were true to their word.

The Germans told the prisoners that those who were in the infirmaries will be abandoned to the Russians and that only the healthy prisoners will be required to leave Auschwitz. However, a rumor spread among the prisoners that the Germans were really going to kill all of the patients before they left.

In his book "Night" Elie Wiesel tells us that he could have stayed in the hospital and that he also could have managed to have his father admitted to the hospital and then waited for the Russians. He tells us that he persuaded his father to allow themselves to be evacuated with the healthy prisoners.

He wrote the following regarding his decision to join the Germans on the march out of Auschwitz:

The choice was in our hands. For once we could decide our fate for ourselves. We could both stay in the hospital, where I could, thanks to my doctor, get him (his father) entered as a patient or nurse. Or else we could follow the others. "Well, what shall we do, father?" He was silent. "Let's be evacuated with the others," I told him.
The rumors turned out to be false. The Germans did leave the patients behind unharmed in the camp infirmaries.


The Wiesels joined the exodus of prisoners marching in the snow. The prisoners had been allowed to pile on extra layers of clothing before they left by the Germans.

Among those who stayed were Primo Levi author of Survival in Auschwitz and Otto Frank, father of Anne Frank.

In all there were about 6000 prisoners left behind.

Here is a first hand account of an interview with a survivor named John Mandel. Mr. Mandel participated in the death march. You can read the text of his interview or listen directly to the audio.
[link to holocaust.umd.umich.edu]

Here in extensive detail is an article from the Holocaust Research Project regarding the marches. [link to www.holocaustresearchproject.org]

Comments welcome
 Quoting: A_Historian


Yeah the Germans were great humanitarians concerned with the well being of their prisoners.

These are approximate numbers as EXACT numbers are impossible at this point but...

5.7 million Russian soldiers were taken captive by the Germans in WWII.

3.5 million Russian soldiers died in captivity.

Great stewardship there, great compassion for their well being.

You seem to think the Germans would be truthful in stating their intentions through back channels?

What kind of BS are you trying to spout?

It was WRONG for the Germans to round up the Jewish people in the first place let alone whatever they did to them.

That's about all that really needs to be said about the matter.

You've never watched the films? Of when the Allies first entered the death camps? Were they ALL contrived? Ever read the accounts of when they made the local townspeople come in to bury the bodies? Or are you just selective in what you "research"?
 Quoting: G. House


They were, actually.

How many German soldiers did the USSR take captive?

It's pretty hard to feed prisoners when allied bombing have destroyed all you food supply routes and your citizens are even starving.

What kind of BS are YOU trying to spout?

They rounded up J-ews because: Firstly, because all Jews of the world declared financial war on Germany. Secondly, Jews in Germany stabbed Germany in the back and directly caused the German loss in WW1. Thirdly, after WW1 Jewish banks in Germany stole nearly all the remaining wealth in Germany. Fourthly, Jewish communists constantly tried to overthrow the German government to genocide Whites just like they did in Russia. Lastly, Jews where totally overrepresented in German government, they own half the media, all the banks, and made up 3/4 of all German Judges.

Films don't mean shit, it's common knowledge that J-ews own all the media in the US. Jews own 96% of all the world's media and spin nearly everything in media to be pro-Jewish. They also all the book publishing houses and use that influence to twist history into being pro-jewish. It you really believe any of the shit spewing out of your idiot box, why are you here?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27418740


Yeah,

the Jewish people ran every friggen thing in Germany in the 30's...

even though they couldn't be seated at a fine restaurant...

or join the country clubs...

etc, etc.

What a friggen line of SHIT you've swallowed.

FUCK OFF!!

The films I'm referring to were taken by the US Army but in your FUCKED OVER mind the Jewish people ran that too?

Seriously FUCK OFF!!
"Everybody lies."
-
User ID: 27605885
United States
11/12/2012 09:13 PM
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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
The Holocaust is just as fake as the Jewish bible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27375760


Says the marxist commie

Thread: The Vatican's Holocaust - Inquisition
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 09:25 PM
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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
A_Historian (OP)

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11/13/2012 06:33 AM
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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
I know it is very difficult to speak and discuss about this Topic,
let me tell you that you look just for the Extremes
but forget that all the single Points accumulate!

Yes, there was "Death Marches" and Yes, there was "Camp-Evacuations",
Germany thought they need all this Work Force
because all the German Soldiers (Males) was already death or in PoW-Camps!

But so many People was weak already after all this Torture
and when they started it was Winter-Time,
there was no Food and not even hot Water.
Many People had only simple Clothes and many not even had Shoes.

It was the final Point for many People!
 Quoting: the mighty Atom


You are missing the entire point about the marches.
They were not meant to kill the prisoners or use them as a work force in another camp....they were meant to save them
Germany gave their word that they would evacuate the prisoners ahead of the approaching Red Army....Why?

Because the communist prisoners knew that to be turned over to the Red Army meant death and if they were Russian Army POW's meant death for their families as well. Earlier on in the war, particularly at the onset of Barbarossa, Red Army troops surrendered by the tens of thousands overwhelming the Nazi camp system. some of the reasons for this surrender was because Stalin purged the Army leadership during the thirties, and the troops no longer trusted him.
In addition, due to the mass murder of millions of his own people, the common man no longer trusted him either since no family was fully spared from the loss of loved ones.

As a result of these mass surrenders, Stalin enacted Stavka Orders which are essentially the same as Executive Orders given by Obama today.

Stalin's orders were to put a stop to what he considered cowardice among his army. Basically, any troop who surrendered or was captured was considered a traitor and the penalty was death. When that was not sufficient he enacted another that carried the penalty to the families.

No one wanted to return to the Soviet Union because certain death awaited them.

Read here. [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Quote:
The shtrafbats were created by Joseph Stalin on July 1942, via Stavka Order No. 227

Order No. 227 was a desperate effort to re-instill discipline after the panicked routs of the first year of combat with Germany. The order用opularized as the "Not one step back!" This Order introduced severe punishments, including summary execution, for unauthorized retreats.


Regarding the evacuation of the camps...the prisoners were given a choice to leave with the Germans or remain at the camp awaiting the Red Army.
Reread the telegrams I posted and you will see the Germans were true to their word.

The Germans told the prisoners that those who were in the infirmaries will be abandoned to the Russians and that only the healthy prisoners will be required to leave Auschwitz. However, a rumor spread among the prisoners that the Germans were really going to kill all of the patients before they left.

In his book "Night" Elie Wiesel tells us that he could have stayed in the hospital and that he also could have managed to have his father admitted to the hospital and then waited for the Russians. He tells us that he persuaded his father to allow themselves to be evacuated with the healthy prisoners.

He wrote the following regarding his decision to join the Germans on the march out of Auschwitz:

The choice was in our hands. For once we could decide our fate for ourselves. We could both stay in the hospital, where I could, thanks to my doctor, get him (his father) entered as a patient or nurse. Or else we could follow the others. "Well, what shall we do, father?" He was silent. "Let's be evacuated with the others," I told him.
The rumors turned out to be false. The Germans did leave the patients behind unharmed in the camp infirmaries.


The Wiesels joined the exodus of prisoners marching in the snow. The prisoners had been allowed to pile on extra layers of clothing before they left by the Germans.

Among those who stayed were Primo Levi author of Survival in Auschwitz and Otto Frank, father of Anne Frank.

In all there were about 6000 prisoners left behind.

Here is a first hand account of an interview with a survivor named John Mandel. Mr. Mandel participated in the death march. You can read the text of his interview or listen directly to the audio.
[link to holocaust.umd.umich.edu]

Here in extensive detail is an article from the Holocaust Research Project regarding the marches. [link to www.holocaustresearchproject.org]

Comments welcome
 Quoting: A_Historian


Yeah the Germans were great humanitarians concerned with the well being of their prisoners.

These are approximate numbers as EXACT numbers are impossible at this point but...

5.7 million Russian soldiers were taken captive by the Germans in WWII.

3.5 million Russian soldiers died in captivity.

Great stewardship there, great compassion for their well being.

You seem to think the Germans would be truthful in stating their intentions through back channels?

What kind of BS are you trying to spout?

It was WRONG for the Germans to round up the Jewish people in the first place let alone whatever they did to them.

That's about all that really needs to be said about the matter.

You've never watched the films? Of when the Allies first entered the death camps? Were they ALL contrived? Ever read the accounts of when they made the local townspeople come in to bury the bodies? Or are you just selective in what you "research"?
 Quoting: G. House


Instead of taking such an antagonistic position why not try to help arrive at the truth?

For starters, here is the text of a book entitled Germany and The Jewish Problem written by Dr. Friederich Karl Wiehe- Published for the Institute for studies of the Jewish question, Berlin (1938)

It presents the German side of the coin.
[link to knud.eriksen.adr.dk]

If you believe that Germany set out to simply murder the Jews, you are wrong.

Here is a paper by German researcher Ingrid Weckert that details Germany's efforts to relocate the Jews of Germany.
[link to www.counter-currents.com]

Also look up the book "The Transfer Agreement" by Edwin Black
[link to search.yahoo.com]

[link to www.amazon.com]

As far as the Russians, I have discussed earlier in the thread how their mass surrenders led to the camps being overwhelmed and how that prompted Stalin to enact Stavka Orders threatening death for the soldiers and their families.
grefey

User ID: 24294934
United States
11/13/2012 06:50 AM

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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
I find it an interesting topic. I do believe the Holocaust occurred, however, I believe it has been hyped and played up ever since WW2 by the Zionist media to gain sympathy for the Zionist State of Israel.

I believe it a fact that the Russians were the ones who liberated Auschwitz and were the ones who made the statement of 6 million Jews exterminated. Later on in the 80's I believe they came out and for reasons unknown to me corrected that number to 3 million killed in the camps during the war and noting that they were not all Jews.

I believe the Holocaust was a terrible thing. I also believe what has been done in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria in the name of Democracy are on par with it and will ultimately kill and maim far more in the end and Zionist Israel, certain Arab countries and the West are all culpable.

The question I have is why is this all going on now? Is it about fulfilling bible prophesy and rebuilding Solomon's Temple or something more? Is there a portal on the site of the Dome of the rock where Satan is too return? This is all wild stuff but it has to be considered.

I try hard to understand what is going on in the world but I must confess at this point I just have to watch because it is all too much to understand.

How do others feel?

Last Edited by grefey on 11/13/2012 07:11 AM
Anonymous Coward
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11/13/2012 07:05 AM
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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
The Holocaust is just as fake as the Jewish bible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27375760


Says the marxist commie

Thread: The Vatican's Holocaust - Inquisition
 Quoting: - 27605885


The commies were mostly all Jews, Bubby.

Stalin's Jews: We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish
[link to www.ynetnews.com]

Stalin's little buddies made Hitler look like a Boy Scout.

Why do people always think you can get away with telling such obvious lies?

Are you really that stupid? REALLY?
grefey

User ID: 24294934
United States
11/13/2012 07:08 AM

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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
I know it is very difficult to speak and discuss about this Topic,
let me tell you that you look just for the Extremes
but forget that all the single Points accumulate!

Yes, there was "Death Marches" and Yes, there was "Camp-Evacuations",
Germany thought they need all this Work Force
because all the German Soldiers (Males) was already death or in PoW-Camps!

But so many People was weak already after all this Torture
and when they started it was Winter-Time,
there was no Food and not even hot Water.
Many People had only simple Clothes and many not even had Shoes.

It was the final Point for many People!
 Quoting: the mighty Atom


You are missing the entire point about the marches.
They were not meant to kill the prisoners or use them as a work force in another camp....they were meant to save them
Germany gave their word that they would evacuate the prisoners ahead of the approaching Red Army....Why?

Because the communist prisoners knew that to be turned over to the Red Army meant death and if they were Russian Army POW's meant death for their families as well. Earlier on in the war, particularly at the onset of Barbarossa, Red Army troops surrendered by the tens of thousands overwhelming the Nazi camp system. some of the reasons for this surrender was because Stalin purged the Army leadership during the thirties, and the troops no longer trusted him.
In addition, due to the mass murder of millions of his own people, the common man no longer trusted him either since no family was fully spared from the loss of loved ones.

As a result of these mass surrenders, Stalin enacted Stavka Orders which are essentially the same as Executive Orders given by Obama today.

Stalin's orders were to put a stop to what he considered cowardice among his army. Basically, any troop who surrendered or was captured was considered a traitor and the penalty was death. When that was not sufficient he enacted another that carried the penalty to the families.

No one wanted to return to the Soviet Union because certain death awaited them.

Read here. [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Quote:
The shtrafbats were created by Joseph Stalin on July 1942, via Stavka Order No. 227

Order No. 227 was a desperate effort to re-instill discipline after the panicked routs of the first year of combat with Germany. The order用opularized as the "Not one step back!" This Order introduced severe punishments, including summary execution, for unauthorized retreats.


Regarding the evacuation of the camps...the prisoners were given a choice to leave with the Germans or remain at the camp awaiting the Red Army.
Reread the telegrams I posted and you will see the Germans were true to their word.

The Germans told the prisoners that those who were in the infirmaries will be abandoned to the Russians and that only the healthy prisoners will be required to leave Auschwitz. However, a rumor spread among the prisoners that the Germans were really going to kill all of the patients before they left.

In his book "Night" Elie Wiesel tells us that he could have stayed in the hospital and that he also could have managed to have his father admitted to the hospital and then waited for the Russians. He tells us that he persuaded his father to allow themselves to be evacuated with the healthy prisoners.

He wrote the following regarding his decision to join the Germans on the march out of Auschwitz:

The choice was in our hands. For once we could decide our fate for ourselves. We could both stay in the hospital, where I could, thanks to my doctor, get him (his father) entered as a patient or nurse. Or else we could follow the others. "Well, what shall we do, father?" He was silent. "Let's be evacuated with the others," I told him.
The rumors turned out to be false. The Germans did leave the patients behind unharmed in the camp infirmaries.


The Wiesels joined the exodus of prisoners marching in the snow. The prisoners had been allowed to pile on extra layers of clothing before they left by the Germans.

Among those who stayed were Primo Levi author of Survival in Auschwitz and Otto Frank, father of Anne Frank.

In all there were about 6000 prisoners left behind.

Here is a first hand account of an interview with a survivor named John Mandel. Mr. Mandel participated in the death march. You can read the text of his interview or listen directly to the audio.
[link to holocaust.umd.umich.edu]

Here in extensive detail is an article from the Holocaust Research Project regarding the marches. [link to www.holocaustresearchproject.org]

Comments welcome
 Quoting: A_Historian


Yeah the Germans were great humanitarians concerned with the well being of their prisoners.

These are approximate numbers as EXACT numbers are impossible at this point but...

5.7 million Russian soldiers were taken captive by the Germans in WWII.

3.5 million Russian soldiers died in captivity.

Great stewardship there, great compassion for their well being.

You seem to think the Germans would be truthful in stating their intentions through back channels?

What kind of BS are you trying to spout?

It was WRONG for the Germans to round up the Jewish people in the first place let alone whatever they did to them.

That's about all that really needs to be said about the matter.

You've never watched the films? Of when the Allies first entered the death camps? Were they ALL contrived? Ever read the accounts of when they made the local townspeople come in to bury the bodies? Or are you just selective in what you "research"?
 Quoting: G. House


They were, actually.

How many German soldiers did the USSR take captive?

It's pretty hard to feed prisoners when allied bombing have destroyed all you food supply routes and your citizens are even starving.

What kind of BS are YOU trying to spout?

They rounded up J-ews because: Firstly, because all Jews of the world declared financial war on Germany. Secondly, Jews in Germany stabbed Germany in the back and directly caused the German loss in WW1. Thirdly, after WW1 Jewish banks in Germany stole nearly all the remaining wealth in Germany. Fourthly, Jewish communists constantly tried to overthrow the German government to genocide Whites just like they did in Russia. Lastly, Jews where totally overrepresented in German government, they own half the media, all the banks, and made up 3/4 of all German Judges.

Films don't mean shit, it's common knowledge that J-ews own all the media in the US. Jews own 96% of all the world's media and spin nearly everything in media to be pro-Jewish. They also all the book publishing houses and use that influence to twist history into being pro-jewish. It you really believe any of the shit spewing out of your idiot box, why are you here?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27418740


bump

I do believe that WW2 and a lot of what happened to the jews was a result of the role they played in Germany's loss of WW1 and WW2 was intentionally set up as a result of the Versailles treaty and the harsh reparations placed on Germany. Let us not forget Woodrow Wilson and the role the U.S. played in WW1. Who helped him become president(i.e. - Jewish Banksters)and the formation of the Federal Reserve under his Presidency. You will note we have all been manipulated for 100's if not 1,000's of years. But to what end I ask? Because to me it looks like the end is near one way or another.
Harbringer

User ID: 27209687
11/14/2012 08:31 AM
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Re: The Holocaust is the greatest conspiracy of the 20th Century......Nazi Death Marches.
...


You are missing the entire point about the marches.
They were not meant to kill the prisoners or use them as a work force in another camp....they were meant to save them
Germany gave their word that they would evacuate the prisoners ahead of the approaching Red Army....Why?

Because the communist prisoners knew that to be turned over to the Red Army meant death and if they were Russian Army POW's meant death for their families as well. Earlier on in the war, particularly at the onset of Barbarossa, Red Army troops surrendered by the tens of thousands overwhelming the Nazi camp system. some of the reasons for this surrender was because Stalin purged the Army leadership during the thirties, and the troops no longer trusted him.
In addition, due to the mass murder of millions of his own people, the common man no longer trusted him either since no family was fully spared from the loss of loved ones.

As a result of these mass surrenders, Stalin enacted Stavka Orders which are essentially the same as Executive Orders given by Obama today.

Stalin's orders were to put a stop to what he considered cowardice among his army. Basically, any troop who surrendered or was captured was considered a traitor and the penalty was death. When that was not sufficient he enacted another that carried the penalty to the families.

No one wanted to return to the Soviet Union because certain death awaited them.

Read here. [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Quote:
The shtrafbats were created by Joseph Stalin on July 1942, via Stavka Order No. 227

Order No. 227 was a desperate effort to re-instill discipline after the panicked routs of the first year of combat with Germany. The order用opularized as the "Not one step back!" This Order introduced severe punishments, including summary execution, for unauthorized retreats.


Regarding the evacuation of the camps...the prisoners were given a choice to leave with the Germans or remain at the camp awaiting the Red Army.
Reread the telegrams I posted and you will see the Germans were true to their word.

The Germans told the prisoners that those who were in the infirmaries will be abandoned to the Russians and that only the healthy prisoners will be required to leave Auschwitz. However, a rumor spread among the prisoners that the Germans were really going to kill all of the patients before they left.

In his book "Night" Elie Wiesel tells us that he could have stayed in the hospital and that he also could have managed to have his father admitted to the hospital and then waited for the Russians. He tells us that he persuaded his father to allow themselves to be evacuated with the healthy prisoners.

He wrote the following regarding his decision to join the Germans on the march out of Auschwitz:

The choice was in our hands. For once we could decide our fate for ourselves. We could both stay in the hospital, where I could, thanks to my doctor, get him (his father) entered as a patient or nurse. Or else we could follow the others. "Well, what shall we do, father?" He was silent. "Let's be evacuated with the others," I told him.
The rumors turned out to be false. The Germans did leave the patients behind unharmed in the camp infirmaries.


The Wiesels joined the exodus of prisoners marching in the snow. The prisoners had been allowed to pile on extra layers of clothing before they left by the Germans.

Among those who stayed were Primo Levi author of Survival in Auschwitz and Otto Frank, father of Anne Frank.

In all there were about 6000 prisoners left behind.

Here is a first hand account of an interview with a survivor named John Mandel. Mr. Mandel participated in the death march. You can read the text of his interview or listen directly to the audio.
[link to holocaust.umd.umich.edu]

Here in extensive detail is an article from the Holocaust Research Project regarding the marches. [link to www.holocaustresearchproject.org]

Comments welcome
 Quoting: A_Historian


Yeah the Germans were great humanitarians concerned with the well being of their prisoners.

These are approximate numbers as EXACT numbers are impossible at this point but...

5.7 million Russian soldiers were taken captive by the Germans in WWII.

3.5 million Russian soldiers died in captivity.

Great stewardship there, great compassion for their well being.

You seem to think the Germans would be truthful in stating their intentions through back channels?

What kind of BS are you trying to spout?

It was WRONG for the Germans to round up the Jewish people in the first place let alone whatever they did to them.

That's about all that really needs to be said about the matter.

You've never watched the films? Of when the Allies first entered the death camps? Were they ALL contrived? Ever read the accounts of when they made the local townspeople come in to bury the bodies? Or are you just selective in what you "research"?
 Quoting: G. House


They were, actually.

How many German soldiers did the USSR take captive?

It's pretty hard to feed prisoners when allied bombing have destroyed all you food supply routes and your citizens are even starving.

What kind of BS are YOU trying to spout?

They rounded up J-ews because: Firstly, because all Jews of the world declared financial war on Germany. Secondly, Jews in Germany stabbed Germany in the back and directly caused the German loss in WW1. Thirdly, after WW1 Jewish banks in Germany stole nearly all the remaining wealth in Germany. Fourthly, Jewish communists constantly tried to overthrow the German government to genocide Whites just like they did in Russia. Lastly, Jews where totally overrepresented in German government, they own half the media, all the banks, and made up 3/4 of all German Judges.

Films don't mean shit, it's common knowledge that J-ews own all the media in the US. Jews own 96% of all the world's media and spin nearly everything in media to be pro-Jewish. They also all the book publishing houses and use that influence to twist history into being pro-jewish. It you really believe any of the shit spewing out of your idiot box, why are you here?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27418740


Yeah,

the Jewish people ran every friggen thing in Germany in the 30's...

even though they couldn't be seated at a fine restaurant...

or join the country clubs...

etc, etc.

What a friggen line of SHIT you've swallowed.

FUCK OFF!!

The films I'm referring to were taken by the US Army but in your FUCKED OVER mind the Jewish people ran that too?

Seriously FUCK OFF!!
 Quoting: G. House


And another rant by an American Jew. Your not European you know fuck all. Shut your trap you werent even in the 2nd world war till the end of it. America made little or no difference to the outcome. Facts my dear boy. FUCK OFF!

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