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the bible says turn the other cheek but what do you do if that one is harmed also?

 
skeptic
User ID: 8198777
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11/08/2012 03:10 PM
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Re: the bible says turn the other cheek but what do you do if that one is harmed also?
...


No, I didn't say that. I'm saying that to truly follow the teachings of jesus, you have to lay down your life in the face of injustice just like jesus did. Look what it accomplished! What if Jesus had resorted to violence? What if the apostles had raided the synagogues and retaliated for the murder of their leader? Jesus himself NEVER took up arms or resorted to violence as a defense. In fact, each time prior to this when he was going to be seized, he snuck away and hid--even avoiding cities where he knew he was going to be thrown in jail. Some might even call this behavior cowardly, but that's what the gospels report that he did.

Peter was just a man--fallen like every other person on the planet. If you follow Peter's example, then you're not following jesus' example.
 Quoting: skeptic 8198777


I, as a man will never be like Jesus. That's a certainty I can rely on. The problem with today's Christians is not the things you mention...it's the fact that they have unrealistic expectations. For instance; being like Jesus, isn't ever gonna happen. Make the goal more realistic, be like Peter, worship God through Jesus and protect the innocent. Your premise is off by about 2 shades and so is your comprehension.
 Quoting: Chip


You're just not getting it, and that's okay--it takes all kinds. If you're content being called a christian (implying that you're trying to live like christ) while openly letting everyone know that "it aint gonna happen so I'll just try to copy that other guy" then that's your business. However, a lack of understanding on your part does not constitute a lack of discernment on mine.

Your argument does help elucidate the fact that the ideals and doctrines of the christian faith have always only been intended as an ideal for man to follow--not as the divine words that magically appeared verbatim in a bunch of imperfect dudes' heads and was passed to paper INCORRUPTIBLE. So, good job on that.
 Quoting: skeptic 8198777


I get exactly what you are saying. I do not call myself a Christian. I cannot be a Christian, I cannot be Christ like. No one can. Christ is unique, his mind was his, his body was his...I cannot embody somebody that I am not. God created you with your own mind, your own body. Be the best you that you can be. That's my acceptance of what Jesus taught. How could you possibly be more the the best you? Trying to act like another person your entire life is a lie. Don't lie! Be real!
 Quoting: Chip


Just to be clear, I do not call myself a christian either--there's only one, just like you said. So, I honestly agree with everything that you said in the above post. My point of contention originally was with the common practice of "humanizing" the actions of jesus by rationalizing them with non-christian thought (in this case returning an offense in kind). If someone wants to say that the book is the literal interpretation of gods word for humanity, then one, by extension, has to treat EVERYTHING as literal, and thus expose the fallacy of said argument. Geometry only requires a SINGLE instance of fallacy to disprove a theorem, after all.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 03:11 PM
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Re: the bible says turn the other cheek but what do you do if that one is harmed also?
The passage has nothing to do with war or fighting or violence or Rule of Law & justice. It is about others who commit wrongs based on their false beliefs and religion. Attacking them in kind is not showing the faith of Jesus.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27314176


Are you sure? Now I'm starting to get confused.
skeptic
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11/08/2012 03:13 PM
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Re: the bible says turn the other cheek but what do you do if that one is harmed also?
...


No, I didn't say that. I'm saying that to truly follow the teachings of jesus, you have to lay down your life in the face of injustice just like jesus did. Look what it accomplished! What if Jesus had resorted to violence? What if the apostles had raided the synagogues and retaliated for the murder of their leader? Jesus himself NEVER took up arms or resorted to violence as a defense. In fact, each time prior to this when he was going to be seized, he snuck away and hid--even avoiding cities where he knew he was going to be thrown in jail. Some might even call this behavior cowardly, but that's what the gospels report that he did.

Peter was just a man--fallen like every other person on the planet. If you follow Peter's example, then you're not following jesus' example.
 Quoting: skeptic 8198777


I, as a man will never be like Jesus. That's a certainty I can rely on. The problem with today's Christians is not the things you mention...it's the fact that they have unrealistic expectations. For instance; being like Jesus, isn't ever gonna happen. Make the goal more realistic, be like Peter, worship God through Jesus and protect the innocent. Your premise is off by about 2 shades and so is your comprehension.
 Quoting: Chip


You're just not getting it, and that's okay--it takes all kinds. If you're content being called a christian (implying that you're trying to live like christ) while openly letting everyone know that "it aint gonna happen so I'll just try to copy that other guy" then that's your business. However, a lack of understanding on your part does not constitute a lack of discernment on mine.

Your argument does help elucidate the fact that the ideals and doctrines of the christian faith have always only been intended as an ideal for man to follow--not as the divine words that magically appeared verbatim in a bunch of imperfect dudes' heads and was passed to paper INCORRUPTIBLE. So, good job on that.
 Quoting: skeptic 8198777


So you're saying I should try to resist my urge to react violently and instead of defend the weak try to help them hide?
 Quoting: Leslie Zevo


I didn't say it, the scriptures do. If it doesn't make sense to you, then I'll remind you that the entire purpose of the Abrahamic law was to condemn mankind. Clear as mud?
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 03:25 PM
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Re: the bible says turn the other cheek but what do you do if that one is harmed also?
The passage has nothing to do with war or fighting or violence or Rule of Law & justice. It is about others who commit wrongs based on their false beliefs and religion. Attacking them in kind is not showing the faith of Jesus.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27314176


Are you sure? Now I'm starting to get confused.
 Quoting: Leslie Zevo


Jesus did not advocate we be suicidal in allowing others to beat us or invade our lands. He told Peter to arm himself with the sword. The passage in question, again, has to do with others, for instance, lying to us about something. We do not then lie back rather turn the other cheek to show Christ is not the way they are.

Another example would be someone showing their wealth to brag. The Christian even if wealthy would turn the other cheek and not respond in kind. That is not why God has blessed him.
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 04:18 PM
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Re: the bible says turn the other cheek but what do you do if that one is harmed also?
Is there a specific passage that addresses that? I've been looking for one.
 Quoting: Leslie Zevo


21Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 17090286
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11/09/2012 03:43 AM
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Re: the bible says turn the other cheek but what do you do if that one is harmed also?
The passage has nothing to do with war or fighting or violence or Rule of Law & justice. It is about others who commit wrongs based on their false beliefs and religion. Attacking them in kind is not showing the faith of Jesus.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27314176


Are you sure? Now I'm starting to get confused.
 Quoting: Leslie Zevo


Jesus did not advocate we be suicidal in allowing others to beat us or invade our lands. He told Peter to arm himself with the sword. The passage in question, again, has to do with others, for instance, lying to us about something. We do not then lie back rather turn the other cheek to show Christ is not the way they are.

Another example would be someone showing their wealth to brag. The Christian even if wealthy would turn the other cheek and not respond in kind. That is not why God has blessed him.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27314176


I see. So if you got it, don't flaunt it. Be humble about it. Don't give into pissing contests.
Anonymous Coward
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11/09/2012 03:59 AM
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Re: the bible says turn the other cheek but what do you do if that one is harmed also?
If you read the bible, Jesus teaches that there are two sides to man. One is good, the other evil. We should always lead with our good.

Therefore, when you lead with your good side (as represented by your cheek) and someone slaps it, you turn the other cheek. In other words, show them your evil side.

The trouble is that these teachings have been taken over and interpreted by STUPID PUSSIES that teach you should just take it.

Of course, the STUPID PUSSY version is the one that those in power like best, so this way you will always be their slave and never fight back.

HTH
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3034892
Canada
11/09/2012 04:00 AM
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Re: the bible says turn the other cheek but what do you do if that one is harmed also?
If you read the bible, Jesus teaches that there are two sides to man. One is good, the other evil. We should always lead with our good.

Therefore, when you lead with your good side (as represented by your cheek) and someone slaps it, you turn the other cheek. In other words, show them your evil side.

The trouble is that these teachings have been taken over and interpreted by STUPID PUSSIES that teach you should just take it.

Of course, the STUPID PUSSY version is the one that those in power like best, so this way you will always be their slave and never fight back.

HTH
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21438600



Nice
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22818197
Puerto Rico
11/09/2012 04:06 AM
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Re: the bible says turn the other cheek but what do you do if that one is harmed also?
Is there a specific passage that addresses that? I've been looking for one.
 Quoting: Leslie Zevo


Let the guy fuck you from behind! sideways


What you think Jesus being defiled in the bible means ?


The full roman legion , the budweiser horse team and a miniature circus donkey ....

(Ouch!)baffle
Keep2theCode

User ID: 20545539
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11/09/2012 07:30 AM
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Re: the bible says turn the other cheek but what do you do if that one is harmed also?
There are two types of face slaps: a forward slap and a backward slap. One is used on inferiors, and the other is used of equals. (I forget which is which)

So, if you are slapped as an inferior, Jesus says to turn the other cheek so that the aggressor will be forced to slap you as an equal... if he dares.

Quite subversive, really.
 Quoting: Life and Love


This is exactly it. From this excellent article [link to libertarianchristians.com] --
After stating the antithesis, Jesus switches to speak in the second person and gives four admonitory sayings to solidify his point. Verse 39b is the classic “turn the other cheek” saying of Jesus. The “slap” mentioned here was primarily an expression of hate and insult, rather than a physical assault with the intent of depriving an individual of life or health. The pain caused is important, but secondary to the insult. The addition of right cheek could mean an especially rude insult since that would require a backhanded or left-handed slap. The insult implied that one was an inferior, perhaps a slave, a child, or in that time a woman. The Baba Qamma tractates (8:6) said that a backhanded slap required double penance. 1 Esdras 4:30 (from the Apocrypha) indicates that a left-handed slap was considered a special insult. Does the situation here represent any violent situation one may encounter in life, any insulting situation, or both? Since slaps apparently were widespread, the most likely answer is either the insulting situation or perhaps both. If taken as given that Jesus is talking about this in a legal sense, what else might be gleaned? Slapping someone at that time could result in an exchange that would be brought to a civil court; this was entirely possible given the Rabbinic law as mentioned above. Jesus is saying that one should not let violence keep escalating. Hitting back, as N.T. Wright says, “keeps the evil in circulation” (51). Rather, turn the insult around without insulting back, volunteer the left cheek and let him approach you on equal ground. Offering the other cheek implies that the aggressor can hit again if he likes, but he will do so as an equal and not a superior.
 Quoting: article


Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 11/09/2012 07:35 AM
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