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Sybils and Oracles...

 
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 02:09 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
...


in the library of alexandria there is a women among the men
 Quoting: aether


without her (a women) presence the men would never be inspired (able) to translate because the information of our ancestors is emotional in nature: as in:

it describes our self aware universe
 Quoting: aether


ah I remember seeing this mentioned in the X thread :) Interesting...but thinking now because of luna's link this is not limited to women...we have had prophets :D So really this is such a bigger subject than I could have imagined. Why did I not take into account the male roles in divination...lol

hf
 Quoting: ~Angels~


you don`t until you discover man/men who mmake sense of what you know
 Quoting: aether


wow... your right...it's simpler than I thought blink lol

hf
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 02:16 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
Is there a certain culture you would like to know about that uses oracles? You seem to be interested in the Greeks. I would personally look east for answers since they were a bit more meticulous in recording.

Oracles / Syblis, etc. Were and still are prevalent in many seemingly unrelated cultures throughout history.

To find the "oldest known" oracle is a daunting task, might I ask why you seek the oldest known? Are you looking for a starting point?
 Quoting: Cheshire~Cat


I guess Egyptian :)but I am interested in any and all information you guys think is important to this topic. Look East? Okay I will do that thank you...I did not think of that lol

Yes I am trying to get a starting point...I want to see how that all came about the first one :) Then look at how the rest came to be after...see if there are any similarites etc...


hf
 Quoting: ~Angels~


I wish you luck on your task.

Concerning a starting point, the oracles more or less simultaneously manifested throughout different cultures.
This is akin to seeking the first Native American or the first Chinese person. So if you're looking for the first oracle, you might want to try looking for the oldest "Egyptian oracle tradition" or the oldest "Greek oracle tradition". Perhaps then you can narrow your results and decipher your findings easier.
 Quoting: Cheshire~Cat


I think I will start in the East right now...seems like a good place to start...you got me thinking about what they were like :)

hf
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 02:24 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
The really interesting thing about that paper is how thru historical records accounts of these feminine prophetesses are usually so different from one witness to another...and it can be misunderstood that they were preying on people's emotions yet it is more likely that the prophetess could tap into the emotive field of anyone and communicate in a way they would understand most directly which COULD be perceived as giving conflicting information but I really feel there's SO much more to it...
Hope you find it as inspiring as I did...

:)
 Quoting: ArunaLuna


I do too Luna :D Thank you for that post hugs

hf
 Quoting: ~Angels~


Wow. The bolded really hit home.
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 02:38 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
I woke up today reflecting on the sinkholes. The process of Sublimation in relation to the sinkholes. How this changes the earth, but the unseen layers, deeper strata. How we only see it when we see the actual sink hole on a video camera or TV, through imagery, and so forth. When I was thinking of this I envisioned the painting that depicts the oracle that is sitting on the three-legged stole that sits over a crack in the ground with gasses coming up. Sublimation isthe process of a solid (ice) changing directly into a gas (water vapor), or water vapor changing directly into ice, at the same temperature, without ever going through the liquid state.
she had a hellova grip
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
i had a dream last nite

that i flew into an area where a woman was standing alone

i sheathed my sword and asked her if she needed a ride

she said yes she did

she grabbed hold with all her might

we flew high and fast

to the place of rest for those weary ones

she said thank you and i said no problem

i left her there with the others safe and sound

then i woke up all sweaty around my neck

could that be considered an oracle perhaps?

or just a strange dream from some unknown occurrence

from some where in time and space

i dunno it was fun though

good luck on your search
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
Oracle bones are pieces of shell or bone, normally from ox scapulae or turtle plastrons, which were used for scapulimancy – a form of divination – in ancient China, mainly during the late Shang dynasty. Diviners would submit questions to deities regarding future weather, crop planting, the fortunes of members of the royal family, military endeavors, and other similar topics.[1] These questions were carved onto the bone or shell in oracle bone script using a sharp tool. Intense heat was then applied with a metal rod until the bone or shell cracked due to thermal expansion. The diviner would then interpret the pattern of cracks and write the prognostication upon the piece, as well.[1] By the Zhou dynasty, cinnabar ink and brush became the preferred writing method, resulting in fewer carved inscriptions and often blank oracle bones being unearthed.

The oracle bones bear the earliest known significant corpus of ancient Chinese writing,[2] and contain important historical information such as the complete royal genealogy of the Shang dynasty.[3] When they were discovered and deciphered in the early twentieth century, these records confirmed the existence of the Shang, which some scholars had until then doubted.


[link to en.wikipedia.org]


hf
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 04:13 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
Little is known of the early life of Fu Hao. What is known is that King Wu Ding would cultivate the allegiance of neighbouring tribes by marrying one woman from each of them. Fu Hao (who was one of the emperor's 60 wives) entered the royal household through such a marriage and took advantage of the semi-matriarchal slave society to rise through the ranks.[3] Fu Hao is known to modern scholars mainly from inscriptions on Shang Dynasty oracle bone artifacts unearthed at Yinxu.[4]

In these inscriptions she is shown to have led numerous military campaigns. The Tu-Fang had fought against the Shang for generations until they were finally defeated by Fu Hao in a single decisive battle. Further campaigns against the neighbouring Yi, Qiang and Ba followed; the latter is particularly remembered as the earliest recorded large-scale ambush in Chinese history. With up to 13,000 soldiers and important generals Zhi and Hou Gao serving under her, she was the most powerful military leader of her time.[5] This highly unusual status is confirmed by the many weapons, including great battle-axes, unearthed from her tomb.[6]

Although the Shang King exercised ultimate control over ritual matters, which were the most important political activity of the day, oracle bone inscriptions show that Wu Ding repeatedly instructed Fu Hao to conduct special rituals and offer sacrifices. This was very unusual for a woman of that time, and shows that the king must have had great confidence in his wife. The sacrificial bronze vessels and tortoise shells inscribed prepared by Fu Hao discovered in her tomb further evidence her status as high priestess and oracle caster.[6]
She also controlled her own fiefdom on the borders of the empire, and was the mother of Prince Jie (oracle bone inscriptions show concern for her well-being at the time of the birth). She died before King Wu Ding, and he constructed a tomb for her on the edge of the royal cemetery at his capital Yin. The King later made many sacrifices here in hope for her spiritual assistance in defeating the attacking Gong, who threatened to completely wipe out the Shang.[3] The tomb was unearthed by archaeologists in 1976 and is now open to the public


[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Link to the tomb of Fu Hao
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

hf
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11/08/2012 04:20 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
I woke up today reflecting on the sinkholes. The process of Sublimation in relation to the sinkholes. How this changes the earth, but the unseen layers, deeper strata. How we only see it when we see the actual sink hole on a video camera or TV, through imagery, and so forth. When I was thinking of this I envisioned the painting that depicts the oracle that is sitting on the three-legged stole that sits over a crack in the ground with gasses coming up. Sublimation isthe process of a solid (ice) changing directly into a gas (water vapor), or water vapor changing directly into ice, at the same temperature, without ever going through the liquid state.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24395285


hmm...very interesting AC...I was trying to look for a pic of what you were describing but couldn't find one...can you explain further your thoughts on this? Thank you :)

hf
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 04:22 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
i had a dream last nite

that i flew into an area where a woman was standing alone

i sheathed my sword and asked her if she needed a ride

she said yes she did

she grabbed hold with all her might

we flew high and fast

to the place of rest for those weary ones

she said thank you and i said no problem

i left her there with the others safe and sound

then i woke up all sweaty around my neck

could that be considered an oracle perhaps?

or just a strange dream from some unknown occurrence

from some where in time and space

i dunno it was fun though

good luck on your search
 Quoting: she had a hellova grip 27302989


I don't know exactly...Did you get the feeling she was? Did she have anything else to share with you? Does sound like a fun dream :) Thank you AC!

hf
Seer777
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11/08/2012 04:28 PM

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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
Body As Battleground: Feminine Prophecy and
Identity in the Ancient Mediterranean


[link to digitalcommons.macalester.edu]

Angels this is an interesting paper I read which talks about ancient prophecy and the differences between the masculine and feminine and how they're depicted in history...found it interesting...

flower
 Quoting: ArunaLuna


Already I found some good stuff Luna! lol

From this notion arises the idea of being inhabited by a deity. The Greeks termed
this state of bodily inspiration enthousiasmos,” literally “in-godness,”
the inhabitation of a god. The usage of this term implies the physical presence of a
god , which takes place “insideThe “inside” in this case is the body of
the prophetess. Prophecy is a physical experience. It happens upon and within the body.
Both divine and human identities are contained within the prophetess’ body—and
because they both inhabit the same space, the prophetess’ body becomes a contested
space, a battleground. The battle waged is not just for control of the body, or even the
life of the prophetess—it is for her very identity, and its right to exist unencumbered in
her body.

hf
 Quoting: ~Angels~


Wow!


banana
Difficulties strengthen the Mind as labor does the body...
~Seneca
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
Don't mind me I am skipping all over the place but before I go I was thinking about modern day Sybils...who are they? Has anyone been named a prohet or Sybil recently? I mean we know of the ancient ones...which I am still at the beginning of my search learning about them...but still I think this question should be asked in this thread :) In the link below it says there was supposed to be a prophetess of each cycle...so is there one for this cycle?




The old fathers called the Sybils prophetesses in the strictest sense of the word. The Sybils and their oracles were known to Plato, to Aristotle, Diodorous Siculus, Strabo, Plutarch, Pausanias, Cicero, Varro, Virgil, Ovid, Tacitus, Juvenal, and Pliny. Under all circumstances it is absolutely impossible to deny that certain prophecies did anciently exist; and the only question will be, whether we have the real originals, and if the originals, whether uncorrupted or not.

Many authors have endeavoured in vain to ascertain the meaning of the word Sybil. In the Old Irish the word means cycle; the Sybils were beloved of Apollo and the cycle must have been that of the sun. There was supposed to be a prophetess of each Sybils or Cycle. We have the prophecies of eight. There was one for each cycle as it passed.


[link to cybersybils.com]

hf
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11/08/2012 04:42 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
Anon.: El Cant de la Sibilla - Sibilla Catalane



[link to www.youtube.com]

To offer sound and tone to the words.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24395285


I wanted to thank you for this video...it was amazing to listen to :)

abduct

hf
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 05:22 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
i had a dream last nite

that i flew into an area where a woman was standing alone

i sheathed my sword and asked her if she needed a ride

she said yes she did

she grabbed hold with all her might

we flew high and fast

to the place of rest for those weary ones

she said thank you and i said no problem

i left her there with the others safe and sound

then i woke up all sweaty around my neck

could that be considered an oracle perhaps?

or just a strange dream from some unknown occurrence

from some where in time and space

i dunno it was fun though

good luck on your search
 Quoting: she had a hellova grip 27302989


I don't know exactly...Did you get the feeling she was? Did she have anything else to share with you? Does sound like a fun dream :) Thank you AC!

hf
 Quoting: ~Angels~


i dont know who she was exactly

she felt very familiar to me
i felt like i knew her from somewhere else
i felt a great love
from and for her while i was standing in front of her
she shared hugs and kisses
she said many things to me of which i cannot say
but thats the way dreams go ya know
your never quite sure of who or what it really means
until later
it was more of an answer to a call i heard from afar

thats why i write them down to keep track of them

sometimes i make sense of them and sometimes i dont

that just depends on how i search for meaning and when

dreams are similar to oracles where they seem to make sense later on rather than in the present tense

so its best to keep track of them
then a later interpretation can be had
with a more definitive conclusion

i hope im helping ya some
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 05:25 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
I woke up today reflecting on the sinkholes. The process of Sublimation in relation to the sinkholes. How this changes the earth, but the unseen layers, deeper strata. How we only see it when we see the actual sink hole on a video camera or TV, through imagery, and so forth. When I was thinking of this I envisioned the painting that depicts the oracle that is sitting on the three-legged stole that sits over a crack in the ground with gasses coming up. Sublimation isthe process of a solid (ice) changing directly into a gas (water vapor), or water vapor changing directly into ice, at the same temperature, without ever going through the liquid state.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24395285


hmm...very interesting AC...I was trying to look for a pic of what you were describing but couldn't find one...can you explain further your thoughts on this? Thank you :)

hf
 Quoting: ~Angels~


It is an Oil on Canvas entitled: Priestess of Delphi.

[link to upload.wikimedia.org]
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 05:29 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
I woke up today reflecting on the sinkholes. The process of Sublimation in relation to the sinkholes. How this changes the earth, but the unseen layers, deeper strata. How we only see it when we see the actual sink hole on a video camera or TV, through imagery, and so forth. When I was thinking of this I envisioned the painting that depicts the oracle that is sitting on the three-legged stole that sits over a crack in the ground with gasses coming up. Sublimation isthe process of a solid (ice) changing directly into a gas (water vapor), or water vapor changing directly into ice, at the same temperature, without ever going through the liquid state.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24395285


hmm...very interesting AC...I was trying to look for a pic of what you were describing but couldn't find one...can you explain further your thoughts on this? Thank you :)

hf
 Quoting: ~Angels~


It is an Oil on Canvas entitled: Priestess of Delphi.

[link to upload.wikimedia.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24395285


Recent geological investigations have shown that gas emissions from a geologic chasm in the earth could have inspired the Delphic Oracle to "connect with the divine." Some researchers suggest the possibility that ethylene gas caused the Pythia's state of inspiration. However, Lehoux argues[4] that ethylene is "impossible" and benzene is "crucially underdetermined." Others argue instead that methane might have been the gas emitted from the chasm, or CO2 and H2S, arguing that the chasm itself might have been a seismic ground rupture,[5][6] although this idea has been challenged by scholars such as Joseph Fontenrose and Lisa Maurizio, who argue that the ancient sources uniformly represent the Pythia speaking intelligibly, and giving prophecies in her own voice.[7]
 Quoting: [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Seer777
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11/08/2012 05:41 PM

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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
Perhaps the gas symbolizes the aether she was able to breathe into her 'body' to pull the Divine Energies into her.

She also appears to be clutching a leafy branch. Perhaps a veiled attempt to portray something like marijuana or its ancient likeness?

Any idea what that could be?


She has a bowl balanced on her leg, which she seems to be completely uninterested in.

Could be the loss of appetite which occurs as a response of being in theses states more and more often.

Just some musings on the image.

[link to upload.wikimedia.org]


:)
Difficulties strengthen the Mind as labor does the body...
~Seneca
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 05:49 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
From the aforementioned link on Pythia:

She then descended into the adyton (Greek for "inaccessible") and mounted her tripod seat, holding laurel leaves and a dish of Kassotis spring water into which she gazed.
 Quoting: [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Seer777
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
From the aforementioned link on Pythia:

She then descended into the adyton (Greek for "inaccessible") and mounted her tripod seat, holding laurel leaves and a dish of Kassotis spring water into which she gazed.
 Quoting: [link to en.wikipedia.org]

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24395285


I see.

A scrying bowl then.

And laurels in honor of Apollo...

And perhaps to help cover the smell of the gas.


Food for thought.

Thanks.


hf
Difficulties strengthen the Mind as labor does the body...
~Seneca
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 06:14 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
The Laurel was said to give visionary powers and as such the Delphic Oracle used to chew the Laurel leaves to induce visionary powers.
 Quoting:
Seer777
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
The Laurel was said to give visionary powers and as such the Delphic Oracle used to chew the Laurel leaves to induce visionary powers.
 Quoting:

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24395285


Interesting. So we are now back to the 'branch' having some kind of effect.


The Laurel is the same as the Bay leaf right?

I love the smell bay leaves.


However, I have never tried chewing one.

Perhaps I should give it a try.


I imagine fresh would be better than dried.

Her branch looks fresh.

Easy enough to find.

:)
Difficulties strengthen the Mind as labor does the body...
~Seneca
Libra II
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11/08/2012 06:23 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
Does anyone have any information at all about these subjects? such as who is the oldest ever recorded Sybil?

I did find this...but I know there has to be other information out there...

The most fascinating of all Sibyls lived in Cumae (now called Cuma), the first Greek colony founded in Italy, located about twenty miles West of Naples in "the volcanic region near Vesuvius, where the whole country is cleft with chasms from which sulphurous flames arise, while the ground is shaken with pent-up vapors, and mysterious sounds issue from the bowels of the earth." 4 The Sibyl who was also known as Amalthaea made her home in a grotto in this tempestuous land -- a grotto that can be visited even today -- and there she would write her prognostications on leaves and spread them at one of the hundred mouths to her cave, allowing them to be picked up and read -- or scattered by the winds to be seen no more, whichever came first, as Virgil tells us in his Aeneid:

Arriv'd at Cumae, when you view the flood
Of black Avernus, and the sounding wood,
The mad prophetic Sibyl you shall find,
Dark in a cave, and on a rock reclin'd.
She sings the fates, and, in her frantic fits,
The notes and names, inscrib'd, to leafs commits.
What she commits to leafs, in order laid,
Before the cavern's entrance are display'd:
Unmov'd they lie; but, if a blast of wind
Without, or vapors issue from behind,
The leafs are borne aloft in liquid air,
And she resumes no more her museful care,
Nor gathers from the rocks her scatter'd verse,
Nor sets in order what the winds disperse.
Thus, many not succeeding, most upbraid
The madness of the visionary maid,
And with loud curses leave the mystic shade.


In the Aeneid, too, she gives Aeneas a tour of the infernal regions which are entered into in the land she inhabited (this story is the reason for Dante's having chosen Virgil as his guide in "The Divine Comedy"). After this tour of the underworld, they ascend again, and the Sibyl tells the story of how she came to be hundreds of years old. From chapter 25 of Bullfinch's book:

As Aeneas and the Sibyl pursued their way back to earth, he said to her, "Whether thou be a goddess or a mortal beloved by the gods, by me thou shalt always be held in reverence. When I reach the upper air, I will cause a temple to be built to thy honor, and will myself bring offerings."

"I am no goddess," said the Sibyl; "I have no claim to sacrifice or offering. I am mortal; yet if I could have accepted the love of Apollo, I might have been immortal. He promised me the fulfilment of my wish, if I would consent to be his. I took a handful of sand, and holding it forth, said, 'Grant me to see as many birthdays as there are sand-grains in my hand.'

"Unluckily I forgot to ask for enduring youth. This also he would have granted, could I have accepted his love, but offended at my refusal, he allowed me to grow old. My youth and youthful strength fled long ago. I have lived seven hundred years, and to equal the number of the sand-grains, I have still to see three hundred springs and three hundred harvests. My body shrinks up as years increase, and in time, I shall be lost to sight, but my voice will remain, and future ages will respect my sayings."
An ancient woman doomed to live a thousand years, but without youth, shrinking with age each year until nothing is left of her but her voice -- a voice which some say is kept in a jar in the cave, and that others say one can still hear there in her Cumaean grotto.

[link to www.fisheaters.com]


hf
 Quoting: ~Angels~


When the Chinese used gas some 2000 years ago it was for cooking, but when the Greeks used it, it was for visions. I think most of them died of it.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
No. That is where you are with it. Not we.

I woke up today reflecting on the sinkholes. The process of Sublimation in relation to the sinkholes. How this changes the earth, but the unseen layers, deeper strata. How we only see it when we see the actual sink hole on a video camera or TV, through imagery, and so forth. When I was thinking of this I envisioned the painting that depicts the oracle that is sitting on the three-legged stole that sits over a crack in the ground with gasses coming up. Sublimation isthe process of a solid (ice) changing directly into a gas (water vapor), or water vapor changing directly into ice, at the same temperature, without ever going through the liquid state.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24395285


hmm...very interesting AC...I was trying to look for a pic of what you were describing but couldn't find one...can you explain further your thoughts on this? Thank you :)

hf
 Quoting: ~Angels~


It is an Oil on Canvas entitled: Priestess of Delphi.

[link to upload.wikimedia.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24395285


Recent geological investigations have shown that gas emissions from a geologic chasm in the earth could have inspired the Delphic Oracle to "connect with the divine." Some researchers suggest the possibility that ethylene gas caused the Pythia's state of inspiration. However, Lehoux argues[4] that ethylene is "impossible" and benzene is "crucially underdetermined." Others argue instead that methane might have been the gas emitted from the chasm, or CO2 and H2S, arguing that the chasm itself might have been a seismic ground rupture,[5][6] although this idea has been challenged by scholars such as Joseph Fontenrose and Lisa Maurizio, who argue that the ancient sources uniformly represent the Pythia speaking intelligibly, and giving prophecies in her own voice.[7]
 Quoting: [link to en.wikipedia.org]

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24395285


Bringing up the image related to my thoughts on methane and the sinkholes. Hence the original quote from the link.
Seer777
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11/08/2012 06:30 PM

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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
No. That is where you are with it. Not we.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24395285


Pardon me.

I thought we were having a conversation.


hf
Difficulties strengthen the Mind as labor does the body...
~Seneca
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 06:40 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
No. That is where you are with it. Not we.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24395285


Pardon me.

I thought we were having a conversation.


hf
 Quoting: Seer777


You were hypothetically breaking down the elements of a painting. That was not my intent in bringing up the image. So, no. There was no conversation occurring besides providing you links to fill in your food for thoughts as you put it.
Seer777
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
Either way, I can pretty much guarantee a person such as the Oracle of Delphi or her like, would not sit over a fart-smelling crack for any length.

The smell is repulsive for a reason.

It says, stay away.


Anyone who has been in the presence of volcanic gas venting can vouch for the smell.

Not to mention methane gas being highly explosive.


Methane gas stinks, CO2 suffocates, Carbon Monoxide kills or destroys high level thinking.

Not to mention makes one very nauseous.

Ever seen anyone who survived a carbon monoxide poisoning?


hmm
Difficulties strengthen the Mind as labor does the body...
~Seneca
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
At room temperature and standard pressure, methane is a colorless, odorless gas...
 Quoting: wiki


In other words, methane is a gas that is out of sight and out of mind, until the actualization of something like a sinkhole that shows the process of sublimation of methane hydrates that is occurring beneath the surface in the gas/brine interface.
Seer777
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
Perhaps instead, thinking out-of-the-box here...That the crack was in fact geological in nature, but the chamber underneath her was instead utilized by those who attended her to 'burn' which ever concoction of herbs and oils, created her states of prophesy.


These are just musing regarding the image.

I appreciate your links as I had not viewed it prior.


hf
Difficulties strengthen the Mind as labor does the body...
~Seneca
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11/08/2012 06:53 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
The fifth element of Flatulence.
 Quoting: A Muse Me
Seer777
Ride the wings of the mind

User ID: 23968297
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11/08/2012 06:54 PM

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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
The fifth element of Flatulence.
 Quoting: A Muse Me

 Quoting: ArunaLuna


lol.


:)
Difficulties strengthen the Mind as labor does the body...
~Seneca
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24395285
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11/08/2012 06:59 PM
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Re: Sybils and Oracles...
Funny shit right thur.

Lol that says something about my chemistry level. Farting fire Ice and making the Fantastic Four the Fantastic Five would be awesome though.
 Quoting: GetOnDown

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