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Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.

 
Fact
User ID: 945308
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11/08/2012 05:01 PM
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Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
The only begotten son was Adam NOT Jesus.

Jesus said we're all gods.

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?


Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.


He was god's son because Mary was already pregnant with the holy ghost, God's spirit which is in all of us. His father was Joseph from the line of David. Clearly pointed out in Matthew chapter one.

His line of decent is also clearly written in Luke chapter three.

Jesus's line of descent to Adam ...

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Jesus said over and over again he was the Son of Man

Others called them the Son of God.

Jesus said he was the Son of Man.

.
Vaellene

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11/08/2012 05:06 PM

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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
Context

This pericope begins with the Jews gathering around Jesus in the Temple portico, asking Him to tell them in plain terms if He is the Messiah (v. 24). Jesus answers by giving two reasons they should already know the answer to this question: His words and His works (v. 25). Jesus says that the reason they do not know He is the Messiah is not because He has failed to speak clearly or to manifest who He truly is through His miracles, but because they lack faith (vv. 25 - 26). Jesus says that His sheep know Him and hear His voice, but the Jews are not His sheep (vv. 26 - 27). To this point, while Jesus may well have provoked his listeners to anger, there is nothing in what He has said that warrants the charge of blasphemy. But then Jesus says, "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish" (v. 28). Here Jesus claims for Himself the Divine prerogative of granting life to His sheep. The Jews knew that only YHWH gives life (Deut. 32:39), let alone eternal life. Then Jesus equates His power to keep His sheep firmly in hand with His Father's power to do the same thing (vv. 28 - 29). The Jews knew that the Father was "greater than all," but when Jesus said that He had the same power to preserve His sheep as His Father has, this was a clear claim to equality with God. Jesus further drives the point home with His assertion that He and His Father are "one" (v. 30). It is at this point - and with good reason, from their perspective as unbelievers - that the Jews prepare to stone Jesus. Jesus immediately challenges them by returning to one of the two reasons He has given for making clear that He is the Messiah - His works: "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning me?" (v. 32). This is not an evasive response - and it does not follow that Jesus' subsequent response will be evasive, either. The Jews reply that they are not stoning Him for His works, but for claiming to be God, which is blasphemy, according to their Law (v. 33).
Some have argued that the Jews are accusing Jesus of nothing more than being "a god," on the basis that the Greek word theos ("God") lacks the article in this verse and on Jesus' use of Psalm 82 (see below). While many nouns without the article in Greek are indefinite, many others are not. Context, once again, is our sure guide for determining meaning. If the Jews believed that "a god" could grant eternal life or was equal to the Father in the power to preserve the Sheep, there might be some warrant for theos in this verse being rendered "a god." But this is manifestly not the case; while some might be called "gods," in the OT, none were ever said to have Divine powers such as these. Further, the Law against blasphemy did not pertain to those claiming to be 'a god,' but was specific to defaming the name of YHWH (Lev. 24:16), which any man did who claimed to be God or equated his power with YHWH's power. The Jews would be risking their lives if they were to stone Jesus on the grounds of the Temple for anything other than a Law clearly defined in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Immediately after quoting Psalm 82 in His defense, Jesus again returns to the testimony of His works (vv. 37 - 38). Jesus then repeats what He has previously asserted in slightly different words: "The Father is in Me and I in the Father." This further appeal to an intimate relationship in which the Father's intimacy with the Son is no less than the Son's intimacy with the Father incites the Jews beyond talking and Jesus must elude them and flee. It may be said here that if Jesus' appeal to Psalm 82 is meant as nothing more than an answer to the charge of blasphemy, as some commentators allege, He has completely undermined His defense with new claims of unity and equality with His Father. It would seem untenable, given that He knew the hearts of his accusers, that Jesus would provoke the Jews with such a statement, unless it was a logical extension of what He has just said.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 05:11 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
@ Vaellene

The whole bible is a story. A secret wrapped up in a story.

Jesus never existed other than he is you and he is I.

Period.
.
Vaellene

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11/08/2012 05:14 PM

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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
@ Vaellene

The whole bible is a story. A secret wrapped up in a story.

Jesus never existed other than he is you and he is I.

Period.
.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945308


Wrong your Facts are faulted ; better argument please
BRIEF
Rebel with morals

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11/08/2012 05:16 PM

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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.

With freedom comes responsibility.

Heterosexual pride!

Briefcut4892
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 05:16 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
The only begotten son was Adam NOT Jesus.

Jesus said we're all gods.

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

 Quoting: Fact 945308


10:35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

i.e. God's people
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 05:17 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
@ Vaellene

The whole bible is a story. A secret wrapped up in a story.

Jesus never existed other than he is you and he is I.

Period.
.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945308


Wrong your Facts are faulted ; better argument please
 Quoting: Vaellene


Jesus never existed ...

[link to www.jesusneverexisted.com]
.
Vaellene

User ID: 27005108
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11/08/2012 05:23 PM

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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
@ Vaellene

The whole bible is a story. A secret wrapped up in a story.

Jesus never existed other than he is you and he is I.

Period.
.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945308


Wrong your Facts are faulted ; better argument please
 Quoting: Vaellene


Jesus never existed ...

[link to www.jesusneverexisted.com]
.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945308


Meh nothing new some random Athiest website im sure , I read a few exserps Nothing that will move a living GOD or HIS people He has touched throughout the millinia. But this isnt a True argument but I guess It doesn't matter You need to fully feel and open yourself to the HOLY SPIRIT than you sir will understand, I will pray for you
Anonymous Coward
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Slovakia
11/08/2012 05:34 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
The only begotten son was Adam NOT Jesus.

Jesus said we're all gods.

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?


Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
 Quoting: Fact 945308


Well, are you able to keep their Law, OP? Doubtful. LOL It´s NOT about you.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 05:35 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.

You need to fully feel and open yourself to the HOLY SPIRIT than you sir will understand, I will pray for you

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945308


I was born with the holy spirit so where you, as we all were ...

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have of God, and you are not your own?
.
Vaellene

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11/08/2012 05:57 PM

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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.

You need to fully feel and open yourself to the HOLY SPIRIT than you sir will understand, I will pray for you

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945308


I was born with the holy spirit so where you, as we all were ...

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have of God, and you are not your own?
.
 Quoting: Vaellene


We are actually born into sin , "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me".Psalm 51.5 , What you are talking about is when A true christain is saved. The Holy Spirit dwells in us; our bodies are his temples; and they should not be defiled and polluted by sin; see the note at 1 Corinthians 3:16-17. As this Spirit is in us, and as it is given us by God, we ought not to dishonor the gift and the giver by pollution and vice.
Vaellene

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11/08/2012 06:00 PM

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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
YOU (plural YOU) need to read things in context and not scrammble the meanings of things this is what can cause mass distruction OBAMA did it himself, BUT I believe he is working for LUCIFER ...

Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 06:01 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
Jesus is the one, and you are completely wrong
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 06:02 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
Let us know how this theory works out for you.

As for me and my house, we stand by John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He sent His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life!"

From the looks of things, a large portion of the world's population is about to meet Him. I wouldn't recommend you get on His bad side right here before the meeting!
angel4
-GLP-Christian-
Potential Terrorist Under Svea Banér

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11/08/2012 06:02 PM

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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
Learn to differ between CREATED and BEGOTTEN.

Nauzzie-tard is super-moran of the week!

Last Edited by -GLP-Christian- on 11/08/2012 06:03 PM
God Loves ALL

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11/08/2012 06:06 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
The only begotten son was Adam NOT Jesus.

Jesus said we're all gods.

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?


Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.


He was god's son because Mary was already pregnant with the holy ghost, God's spirit which is in all of us. His father was Joseph from the line of David. Clearly pointed out in Matthew chapter one.

His line of decent is also clearly written in Luke chapter three.

Jesus's line of descent to Adam ...

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Jesus said over and over again he was the Son of Man

Others called them the Son of God.

Jesus said he was the Son of Man.

.
 Quoting: Fact 945308


Adam was not the only begotten Son either. People the 2nd person Trinity is NOT from or on this planet, nor can he be.

The Eternal Son is always resident in the central Universe of Havona. He was the FIRST BEGOTTEN SON of the whole entire CREATION.

Adam was not the first son of God on earth either. YOU ONES ARE ALL SONS OF GOD, AND ALL OF YOU ARE ONLY BEGOTTEN SONS OF GOD BECAUSE YOU ARE UNIQUE. NOBODY ELSE HAS YOUR SAME LEARNING OR IS YOUR SAME AGE, OR ANYTHING ELSE. NONE OF YOU MATCH ANOTHER. EVER. YOU CANNOT MATCH ANOTHER.

THE GREATEST HARM DONE BY THE THUGS IN THE BIBLE AND CHURCHES IS MAKING JESUS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. YOU ARE LEAVING OUT ALL THE OTHER PLANETS, THERE ARE 5.6 TRILLION WORLDS WITH INTELLIGENT LIFE AND THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE 'HEAVEN" SPHERES.

PLEASE think, please, your whole eternal career is dependent on the effort to grow your knowledge, which does not come from reading the bible.

Adam was not the first person on this planet. It was fully populated when he and Eve arrived and eve is NOT made from Adam either, it is not possible, unless a clone was made and then the clone would be male.

How can Mary be pregnant with any holy ghost. the genetic father of Jesus was GABRIEL of Nebadon. Jesus needed some really GOOD DNA for the incarnation. Your bodies are not you. Bodies are only a temple to carry around your soul.

OP YOUR WHOLE POST IS TOTAL BS. THIS WORLD DOES NOT RECEIVE KNOWLEDGE WELL. YOU ONES WERE PROMISED THE TRUTH, WE GIVE IT SINCE THE 1955 ON ESPECIALLY BUT ALSO A LOT IS GIVEN SINCE THE LATE 1880'S AND YOU FOLKS JUST WILL GROWN, ACCEPT IT OR LISTEN UP.

GOD IS NOT SOME SORT OF MAGIC. WHAT YOU HAVE ABOVE OP IS SUPERSTITIOUS THINKING. BE ABOUT READING SOME WALTER RUSSELL, I SHOULD HAVE MY THREAD ABOUT HIM I HOPE IN MY SIGNATURE FILE.
The actual Lord's Prayer Given by Jesus 2000 years ago.

"MY SPIRIT, YOU ARE OMNIPOTENT. YOUR NAME IS HOLY. MAY YOUR REALM BE INCARNATE IN ME. MAY YOUR POWER REVEAL ITSELF WITHIN ME, ON EARTH AND IN THE HEAVEN. GIVE ME TODAY MY DAILY BREAD, AND THUS, LET ME RECOGNIZE MY TRANSGRESSIONS AND ERRORS, AND I SHALL RECOGNIZE THE TRUTH. AND DO NOT LEAD ME INTO TEMPTATION AND CONFUSION, BUT DELIVER ME FROM ERROR. FOR YOURS IS THE REALM WITHIN ME AND THE POWER AND THE KNOWLEDGE FOREVER,
AMEN.

Nice video: [link to www.youtube.com] Make this World a Better One

Thread: Walter Russell Quotes Walter Russell thread
Vaellene

User ID: 27005108
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11/08/2012 06:08 PM

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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
The only begotten son was Adam NOT Jesus.

Jesus said we're all gods.

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?


Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.


He was god's son because Mary was already pregnant with the holy ghost, God's spirit which is in all of us. His father was Joseph from the line of David. Clearly pointed out in Matthew chapter one.

His line of decent is also clearly written in Luke chapter three.

Jesus's line of descent to Adam ...

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Jesus said over and over again he was the Son of Man

Others called them the Son of God.

Jesus said he was the Son of Man.

.
 Quoting: Fact 945308


Adam was not the only begotten Son either. People the 2nd person Trinity is NOT from or on this planet, nor can he be.

The Eternal Son is always resident in the central Universe of Havona. He was the FIRST BEGOTTEN SON of the whole entire CREATION.

Adam was not the first son of God on earth either. YOU ONES ARE ALL SONS OF GOD, AND ALL OF YOU ARE ONLY BEGOTTEN SONS OF GOD BECAUSE YOU ARE UNIQUE. NOBODY ELSE HAS YOUR SAME LEARNING OR IS YOUR SAME AGE, OR ANYTHING ELSE. NONE OF YOU MATCH ANOTHER. EVER. YOU CANNOT MATCH ANOTHER.

THE GREATEST HARM DONE BY THE THUGS IN THE BIBLE AND CHURCHES IS MAKING JESUS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. YOU ARE LEAVING OUT ALL THE OTHER PLANETS, THERE ARE 5.6 TRILLION WORLDS WITH INTELLIGENT LIFE AND THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE 'HEAVEN" SPHERES.

PLEASE think, please, your whole eternal career is dependent on the effort to grow your knowledge, which does not come from reading the bible.

Adam was not the first person on this planet. It was fully populated when he and Eve arrived and eve is NOT made from Adam either, it is not possible, unless a clone was made and then the clone would be male.

How can Mary be pregnant with any holy ghost. the genetic father of Jesus was GABRIEL of Nebadon. Jesus needed some really GOOD DNA for the incarnation. Your bodies are not you. Bodies are only a temple to carry around your soul.

OP YOUR WHOLE POST IS TOTAL BS. THIS WORLD DOES NOT RECEIVE KNOWLEDGE WELL. YOU ONES WERE PROMISED THE TRUTH, WE GIVE IT SINCE THE 1955 ON ESPECIALLY BUT ALSO A LOT IS GIVEN SINCE THE LATE 1880'S AND YOU FOLKS JUST WILL GROWN, ACCEPT IT OR LISTEN UP.

GOD IS NOT SOME SORT OF MAGIC. WHAT YOU HAVE ABOVE OP IS SUPERSTITIOUS THINKING. BE ABOUT READING SOME WALTER RUSSELL, I SHOULD HAVE MY THREAD ABOUT HIM I HOPE IN MY SIGNATURE FILE.
 Quoting: God Loves ALL


FAIL
God Loves ALL

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11/08/2012 06:15 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
Jesus is the one, and you are completely wrong
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26202851


YOU ARE ALSO WRONG. You are a son of God if you are a thinking reasoning person. The Father in Heaven, the CREATOR of the whole universe is MIND dear one. SPIRIT IS MIND. you are mind, not your body.
The actual Lord's Prayer Given by Jesus 2000 years ago.

"MY SPIRIT, YOU ARE OMNIPOTENT. YOUR NAME IS HOLY. MAY YOUR REALM BE INCARNATE IN ME. MAY YOUR POWER REVEAL ITSELF WITHIN ME, ON EARTH AND IN THE HEAVEN. GIVE ME TODAY MY DAILY BREAD, AND THUS, LET ME RECOGNIZE MY TRANSGRESSIONS AND ERRORS, AND I SHALL RECOGNIZE THE TRUTH. AND DO NOT LEAD ME INTO TEMPTATION AND CONFUSION, BUT DELIVER ME FROM ERROR. FOR YOURS IS THE REALM WITHIN ME AND THE POWER AND THE KNOWLEDGE FOREVER,
AMEN.

Nice video: [link to www.youtube.com] Make this World a Better One

Thread: Walter Russell Quotes Walter Russell thread
Vaellene

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11/08/2012 06:17 PM

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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
Jesus is the one, and you are completely wrong
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26202851


YOU ARE ALSO WRONG. You are a son of God if you are a thinking reasoning person. The Father in Heaven, the CREATOR of the whole universe is MIND dear one. SPIRIT IS MIND. you are mind, not your body.
 Quoting: God Loves ALL


Thats a Lucifirean Idea and belief, Be careful
Anonymous Coward
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Slovakia
11/08/2012 06:19 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
Jesus is the one, and you are completely wrong
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26202851


YOU ARE ALSO WRONG. You are a son of God if you are a thinking reasoning person. The Father in Heaven, the CREATOR of the whole universe is MIND dear one. SPIRIT IS MIND. you are mind, not your body.
 Quoting: God Loves ALL


There is no mind without body, dude.
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 06:20 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
The only begotten son was Adam NOT Jesus.

Jesus said we're all gods.

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?


Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.


He was god's son because Mary was already pregnant with the holy ghost, God's spirit which is in all of us. His father was Joseph from the line of David. Clearly pointed out in Matthew chapter one.

His line of decent is also clearly written in Luke chapter three.

Jesus's line of descent to Adam ...

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Jesus said over and over again he was the Son of Man

Others called them the Son of God.

Jesus said he was the Son of Man.

.
 Quoting: Fact 945308


Adam was not the only begotten Son either. People the 2nd person Trinity is NOT from or on this planet, nor can he be.

The Eternal Son is always resident in the central Universe of Havona. He was the FIRST BEGOTTEN SON of the whole entire CREATION.

Adam was not the first son of God on earth either. YOU ONES ARE ALL SONS OF GOD, AND ALL OF YOU ARE ONLY BEGOTTEN SONS OF GOD BECAUSE YOU ARE UNIQUE. NOBODY ELSE HAS YOUR SAME LEARNING OR IS YOUR SAME AGE, OR ANYTHING ELSE. NONE OF YOU MATCH ANOTHER. EVER. YOU CANNOT MATCH ANOTHER.

THE GREATEST HARM DONE BY THE THUGS IN THE BIBLE AND CHURCHES IS MAKING JESUS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. YOU ARE LEAVING OUT ALL THE OTHER PLANETS, THERE ARE 5.6 TRILLION WORLDS WITH INTELLIGENT LIFE AND THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE 'HEAVEN" SPHERES.

PLEASE think, please, your whole eternal career is dependent on the effort to grow your knowledge, which does not come from reading the bible.

Adam was not the first person on this planet. It was fully populated when he and Eve arrived and eve is NOT made from Adam either, it is not possible, unless a clone was made and then the clone would be male.

How can Mary be pregnant with any holy ghost. the genetic father of Jesus was GABRIEL of Nebadon. Jesus needed some really GOOD DNA for the incarnation. Your bodies are not you. Bodies are only a temple to carry around your soul.

OP YOUR WHOLE POST IS TOTAL BS. THIS WORLD DOES NOT RECEIVE KNOWLEDGE WELL. YOU ONES WERE PROMISED THE TRUTH, WE GIVE IT SINCE THE 1955 ON ESPECIALLY BUT ALSO A LOT IS GIVEN SINCE THE LATE 1880'S AND YOU FOLKS JUST WILL GROWN, ACCEPT IT OR LISTEN UP.

GOD IS NOT SOME SORT OF MAGIC. WHAT YOU HAVE ABOVE OP IS SUPERSTITIOUS THINKING. BE ABOUT READING SOME WALTER RUSSELL, I SHOULD HAVE MY THREAD ABOUT HIM I HOPE IN MY SIGNATURE FILE.
 Quoting: God Loves ALL


FAIL
 Quoting: Vaellene


NO, NOT A FAIL. TRUTH
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 06:21 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
Jesus is the one, and you are completely wrong
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26202851


YOU ARE ALSO WRONG. You are a son of God if you are a thinking reasoning person. The Father in Heaven, the CREATOR of the whole universe is MIND dear one. SPIRIT IS MIND. you are mind, not your body.
 Quoting: God Loves ALL


Thats a Lucifirean Idea and belief, Be careful
 Quoting: Vaellene


NO ITS NOT. THE STUFF Y0U ONES POST IS LUCIFERIAN. AND LUCIFER IS NOT ON THE PLANET NOW FOR 2000 YEARS. JESUS ENDED HIS CAREER HERE AND REMOVED HIM.
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 06:22 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
Jesus never existed ...


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945308


Here is a quote from the Encyclopedia Britannica concerning the testimony of the many independent secular accounts of Jesus of Nazareth: "These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds by several authors at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th centuries."
[link to www.thedevineevidence.com]

The Evidence for the Existence of Jesus

[link to video.google.com]
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 06:22 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
There are plentiful sons in the Kingdom of God. Yet but One descended and ascended, the Son of man. All else did fall.
ANHEDONIC

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11/08/2012 06:24 PM

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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
@ Vaellene

The whole bible is a story. A secret wrapped up in a story.

Jesus never existed other than he is you and he is I.

Period.
.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945308


Wrong your Facts are faulted ; better argument please
 Quoting: Vaellene


Jesus never existed ...

[link to www.jesusneverexisted.com]
.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945308


Meh nothing new some random Athiest website im sure , I read a few exserps Nothing that will move a living GOD or HIS people He has touched throughout the millinia. But this isnt a True argument but I guess It doesn't matter You need to fully feel and open yourself to the HOLY SPIRIT than you sir will understand, I will pray for you
 Quoting: Vaellene


It's called Astrotheology. One need not be an Atheist to recognize that the biblical story of Jesus paralleled preexisting mythology/belief systems and 'messiah' stories because they are all telling the story of the anthromorphization of the SUN and it's passage through the 'heavens'.



Last Edited by ANHEDONIC on 11/08/2012 06:25 PM

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 06:25 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
I was born with the holy spirit so where you, as we all were ...

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have of God, and you are not your own?
.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945308


Believers get the Holy Spirit after they accept Jesus, the free gift.

You are no Christian, stop trying to preach.
Klink
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11/08/2012 06:26 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
It's called Astrotheology. One need not be an Atheist to recognize that the biblical story of Jesus paralleled preexisting mythology/belief systems and 'messiah' stories because they are all telling the story of the anthromorphization of the SUN and it's passage through the 'heavens'.

v=Z-17BNU7L6g
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


There is no such parallel. Name one?
chauchat

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11/08/2012 06:26 PM

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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
Context

This pericope begins with the Jews gathering around Jesus in the Temple portico, asking Him to tell them in plain terms if He is the Messiah (v. 24). Jesus answers by giving two reasons they should already know the answer to this question: His words and His works (v. 25). Jesus says that the reason they do not know He is the Messiah is not because He has failed to speak clearly or to manifest who He truly is through His miracles, but because they lack faith (vv. 25 - 26). Jesus says that His sheep know Him and hear His voice, but the Jews are not His sheep (vv. 26 - 27). To this point, while Jesus may well have provoked his listeners to anger, there is nothing in what He has said that warrants the charge of blasphemy. But then Jesus says, "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish" (v. 28). Here Jesus claims for Himself the Divine prerogative of granting life to His sheep. The Jews knew that only YHWH gives life (Deut. 32:39), let alone eternal life. Then Jesus equates His power to keep His sheep firmly in hand with His Father's power to do the same thing (vv. 28 - 29). The Jews knew that the Father was "greater than all," but when Jesus said that He had the same power to preserve His sheep as His Father has, this was a clear claim to equality with God. Jesus further drives the point home with His assertion that He and His Father are "one" (v. 30). It is at this point - and with good reason, from their perspective as unbelievers - that the Jews prepare to stone Jesus. Jesus immediately challenges them by returning to one of the two reasons He has given for making clear that He is the Messiah - His works: "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning me?" (v. 32). This is not an evasive response - and it does not follow that Jesus' subsequent response will be evasive, either. The Jews reply that they are not stoning Him for His works, but for claiming to be God, which is blasphemy, according to their Law (v. 33).
Some have argued that the Jews are accusing Jesus of nothing more than being "a god," on the basis that the Greek word theos ("God") lacks the article in this verse and on Jesus' use of Psalm 82 (see below). While many nouns without the article in Greek are indefinite, many others are not. Context, once again, is our sure guide for determining meaning. If the Jews believed that "a god" could grant eternal life or was equal to the Father in the power to preserve the Sheep, there might be some warrant for theos in this verse being rendered "a god." But this is manifestly not the case; while some might be called "gods," in the OT, none were ever said to have Divine powers such as these. Further, the Law against blasphemy did not pertain to those claiming to be 'a god,' but was specific to defaming the name of YHWH (Lev. 24:16), which any man did who claimed to be God or equated his power with YHWH's power. The Jews would be risking their lives if they were to stone Jesus on the grounds of the Temple for anything other than a Law clearly defined in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Immediately after quoting Psalm 82 in His defense, Jesus again returns to the testimony of His works (vv. 37 - 38). Jesus then repeats what He has previously asserted in slightly different words: "The Father is in Me and I in the Father." This further appeal to an intimate relationship in which the Father's intimacy with the Son is no less than the Son's intimacy with the Father incites the Jews beyond talking and Jesus must elude them and flee. It may be said here that if Jesus' appeal to Psalm 82 is meant as nothing more than an answer to the charge of blasphemy, as some commentators allege, He has completely undermined His defense with new claims of unity and equality with His Father. It would seem untenable, given that He knew the hearts of his accusers, that Jesus would provoke the Jews with such a statement, unless it was a logical extension of what He has just said.
 Quoting: Vaellene


Why did faithless Jews come to the conclusion that Jesus was making himself “God”? Evidently because Jesus attributed to himself powers that the Jews believed belonged exclusively to the Father. For example, Jesus said that he would give “eternal life” to the “sheep.” That was something no human could do. However, what the unbelieving Jews overlooked was that Jesus acknowledged having received everything from his Father, and the fine works he was doing proved that he was his Father’s representative. They were wrong in concluding that he was blasphemously making himself God.

That the unbelieving Jews reasoned wrongly is also evident from other incidents. When questioned before the Sanhedrin, Jesus was falsely accused of blasphemy, not because of claiming to be ‘God the Son,’ but because of claiming to be the ‘Messiah, the Son of the living God.’ (Matt. 26:63-68; Luke 22:66-71) Also, on an earlier occasion, certain Jews got the idea that Jesus was making himself equal to God and wanted to kill him as a blasphemer. Of this, John 5:18 tells us: “The Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God.” Note that Jesus did not say that he was God himself but that he called ‘God his Father.’ Jesus’ unbelieving fellow countrymen, however, objected to his claiming this relationship to his Father, this special Sonship. And just as they were wrong in labeling Jesus as a Sabbath breaker, they were also wrong in their assertion about Jesus’ making himself equal to God because of ‘calling God his own Father.’
Watchtower 1974 pp 525-526
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 06:27 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
Jesus is God's only begotten son because Jesus was the first and only creation of God. God made everything else through Jesus. But Jesus was never a creator or co-creator. He did the works by the power of his father. Jesus never did anything on his own but with the help of God.

God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him. John 1:3
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 06:28 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
I was born with the holy spirit so where you, as we all were ...

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have of God, and you are not your own?
.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945308


Believers get the Holy Spirit after they accept Jesus, the free gift.

You are no Christian, stop trying to preach.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27314176


Of course I'm not a christian!

Christians are evil.

Anyone who accepts the brutal death of another so they can be saved, is evil to the core!

.
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 06:30 PM
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Re: Jesus was NOT the only begotten SON.
Context

This pericope begins with the Jews gathering around Jesus in the Temple portico, asking Him to tell them in plain terms if He is the Messiah (v. 24). Jesus answers by giving two reasons they should already know the answer to this question: His words and His works (v. 25). Jesus says that the reason they do not know He is the Messiah is not because He has failed to speak clearly or to manifest who He truly is through His miracles, but because they lack faith (vv. 25 - 26). Jesus says that His sheep know Him and hear His voice, but the Jews are not His sheep (vv. 26 - 27). To this point, while Jesus may well have provoked his listeners to anger, there is nothing in what He has said that warrants the charge of blasphemy. But then Jesus says, "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish" (v. 28). Here Jesus claims for Himself the Divine prerogative of granting life to His sheep. The Jews knew that only YHWH gives life (Deut. 32:39), let alone eternal life. Then Jesus equates His power to keep His sheep firmly in hand with His Father's power to do the same thing (vv. 28 - 29). The Jews knew that the Father was "greater than all," but when Jesus said that He had the same power to preserve His sheep as His Father has, this was a clear claim to equality with God. Jesus further drives the point home with His assertion that He and His Father are "one" (v. 30). It is at this point - and with good reason, from their perspective as unbelievers - that the Jews prepare to stone Jesus. Jesus immediately challenges them by returning to one of the two reasons He has given for making clear that He is the Messiah - His works: "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning me?" (v. 32). This is not an evasive response - and it does not follow that Jesus' subsequent response will be evasive, either. The Jews reply that they are not stoning Him for His works, but for claiming to be God, which is blasphemy, according to their Law (v. 33).
Some have argued that the Jews are accusing Jesus of nothing more than being "a god," on the basis that the Greek word theos ("God") lacks the article in this verse and on Jesus' use of Psalm 82 (see below). While many nouns without the article in Greek are indefinite, many others are not. Context, once again, is our sure guide for determining meaning. If the Jews believed that "a god" could grant eternal life or was equal to the Father in the power to preserve the Sheep, there might be some warrant for theos in this verse being rendered "a god." But this is manifestly not the case; while some might be called "gods," in the OT, none were ever said to have Divine powers such as these. Further, the Law against blasphemy did not pertain to those claiming to be 'a god,' but was specific to defaming the name of YHWH (Lev. 24:16), which any man did who claimed to be God or equated his power with YHWH's power. The Jews would be risking their lives if they were to stone Jesus on the grounds of the Temple for anything other than a Law clearly defined in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Immediately after quoting Psalm 82 in His defense, Jesus again returns to the testimony of His works (vv. 37 - 38). Jesus then repeats what He has previously asserted in slightly different words: "The Father is in Me and I in the Father." This further appeal to an intimate relationship in which the Father's intimacy with the Son is no less than the Son's intimacy with the Father incites the Jews beyond talking and Jesus must elude them and flee. It may be said here that if Jesus' appeal to Psalm 82 is meant as nothing more than an answer to the charge of blasphemy, as some commentators allege, He has completely undermined His defense with new claims of unity and equality with His Father. It would seem untenable, given that He knew the hearts of his accusers, that Jesus would provoke the Jews with such a statement, unless it was a logical extension of what He has just said.
 Quoting: Vaellene


Why did faithless Jews come to the conclusion that Jesus was making himself “God”? Evidently because Jesus attributed to himself powers that the Jews believed belonged exclusively to the Father. For example, Jesus said that he would give “eternal life” to the “sheep.” That was something no human could do. However, what the unbelieving Jews overlooked was that Jesus acknowledged having received everything from his Father, and the fine works he was doing proved that he was his Father’s representative. They were wrong in concluding that he was blasphemously making himself God.

That the unbelieving Jews reasoned wrongly is also evident from other incidents. When questioned before the Sanhedrin, Jesus was falsely accused of blasphemy, not because of claiming to be ‘God the Son,’ but because of claiming to be the ‘Messiah, the Son of the living God.’ (Matt. 26:63-68; Luke 22:66-71) Also, on an earlier occasion, certain Jews got the idea that Jesus was making himself equal to God and wanted to kill him as a blasphemer. Of this, John 5:18 tells us: “The Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God.” Note that Jesus did not say that he was God himself but that he called ‘God his Father.’ Jesus’ unbelieving fellow countrymen, however, objected to his claiming this relationship to his Father, this special Sonship. And just as they were wrong in labeling Jesus as a Sabbath breaker, they were also wrong in their assertion about Jesus’ making himself equal to God because of ‘calling God his own Father.’
Watchtower 1974 pp 525-526
 Quoting: chauchat


Exactly.hf

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