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Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible

 
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 08:49 PM
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Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
And the disciples asked him, saying, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"

But he answered them and said, "Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand."
Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matt. 17:10-13)

Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. (Mal. 4:5)


this is one of the major Messianic promises from God that is found in the Bible. And these John is Elijah references clearly demonstrate the reality of reincarnation. So there are two important conclusions we can draw from this:

(1) The Hebrew scriptures prophesied that Elijah himself - not someone like him or someone in the same ministry as him but Elijah himself - would return before the advent of the Messiah.

(2) Jesus declared John to be Elijah when he stated that Elijah has come.
Based on these conclusions alone, either (A) or (B) must be true:

(A) John was Elijah himself which means that Elijah reincarnated as John the Baptist. And if this is true then reincarnation must belong once again in Christian theology. It also means that the concept of corpses crawling out of graves on Judgment Day can be discarded. OR...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 08:50 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
John was not Elijah reincarnated which means that Elijah himself did not return. And if this is true then either (1) or (2) listed below is true:

(1) Malachi's prophecy concerning Elijah's return to life before the coming of the Messiah failed to happen. This would mean that God does not keep his promise and that the Bible is fallible. OR...
(2) Jesus was not the Messiah.

Based on all the logic presented thus far, only one of the following conclusions is true:
I. Reincarnation is a reality OR...
II. Jesus was not the Messiah OR...
III. Bible prophecies are not reliable.

There is no way around this logic. Only one of the above options can be true. And because Jesus' declaration that John is Elijah is overt and direct, then the only option that can be logically true is (A).
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 08:50 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
John was not Elijah reincarnated which means that Elijah himself did not return. And if this is true then either (1) or (2) listed below is true:

(1) Malachi's prophecy concerning Elijah's return to life before the coming of the Messiah failed to happen. This would mean that God does not keep his promise and that the Bible is fallible. OR...
(2) Jesus was not the Messiah.

Based on all the logic presented thus far, only one of the following conclusions is true:
I. Reincarnation is a reality OR...
II. Jesus was not the Messiah OR...
III. Bible prophecies are not reliable.

There is no way around this logic. Only one of the above options can be true. And because Jesus' declaration that John is Elijah is overt and direct, then the only option that can be logically true is (A).
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 08:51 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
And after the disciples understood Jesus was talking about Elijah being John the Baptist and Jesus did not correct them if in fact their interpretation was wrong. Then we are left with following:

John the Baptist denies being Elijah when asked if he was Elijah in another passage in the bible and he denies being Elijah, which from the teachings of reincarnation is perfectly understandable since one of the main tenets of reincarnation is that you do not remember previous incarnations.

So that leaves us four options.

1. Jesus was mistaken when he said John the Baptist was Elijah and he did not correct his disciples when they understood Jesus was talking about Elijah being John the Baptist as described in Matt. 17:10-13.

2. John the Baptist was telling the truth as far as he knew given the fundamental tenet of reincarnation that you do not remember previous life's.

3. Jesus was accurate saying John the Baptist was Elijah.
And John the Baptist was telling the truth given one of the fundamental tenets of reincarnation that you do not remember previous incarnations in your current life.

4. Either Jesus or John the Baptist is lying.

Option three is the most logical since they are all telling the truth given the various facts and teachings. Option one, two or four makes either Jesus or John the Baptist a liar.
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 08:54 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
that's not reincarnation (as in eastern mysticism) that's resurection.
K.Kool

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11/08/2012 08:54 PM

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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
And the disciples asked him, saying, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"

But he answered them and said, "Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand."
Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matt. 17:10-13)

Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. (Mal. 4:5)


this is one of the major Messianic promises from God that is found in the Bible. And these John is Elijah references clearly demonstrate the reality of reincarnation. So there are two important conclusions we can draw from this:

(1) The Hebrew scriptures prophesied that Elijah himself - not someone like him or someone in the same ministry as him but Elijah himself - would return before the advent of the Messiah.

(2) Jesus declared John to be Elijah when he stated that Elijah has come.
Based on these conclusions alone, either (A) or (B) must be true:

(A) John was Elijah himself which means that Elijah reincarnated as John the Baptist. And if this is true then reincarnation must belong once again in Christian theology. It also means that the concept of corpses crawling out of graves on Judgment Day can be discarded. OR...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27337376




Ahhh, no, just because God chooses to send some spirits back to do a task, does not mean we all reincarnate.
kalamitykool.spam.au
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 08:57 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
Elijah was back with Jesus at the transfiguration and he will be back in the future. It may even be that he did not die yet, The Bible does not say Elijah died and the Gospel of Nicodemus says that he is still in his natural form, will be one of the 2 witnesses that the beast will kill.
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 09:00 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
Jesus merely declared that John was like Elijah, same personalies, motives etc, not ontologically the same being.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 09:00 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
And the disciples asked him, saying, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"

But he answered them and said, "Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand."
Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matt. 17:10-13)

Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. (Mal. 4:5)


this is one of the major Messianic promises from God that is found in the Bible. And these John is Elijah references clearly demonstrate the reality of reincarnation. So there are two important conclusions we can draw from this:

(1) The Hebrew scriptures prophesied that Elijah himself - not someone like him or someone in the same ministry as him but Elijah himself - would return before the advent of the Messiah.

(2) Jesus declared John to be Elijah when he stated that Elijah has come.
Based on these conclusions alone, either (A) or (B) must be true:

(A) John was Elijah himself which means that Elijah reincarnated as John the Baptist. And if this is true then reincarnation must belong once again in Christian theology. It also means that the concept of corpses crawling out of graves on Judgment Day can be discarded. OR...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27337376




Ahhh, no, just because God chooses to send some spirits back to do a task, does not mean we all reincarnate.
 Quoting: K.Kool


This doesn't disprove the fact that millions of Christians throughout history believed in reincarnation until it was ripped from the Bible. You fail there is a plethora of evidence supporting reincarnation and not the hell fire and brimstone for eternity Catholic doctrine which was in fact adopted from myths about earlier myths about Hades
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 09:01 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
Jesus merely declared that John was like Elijah, same personalies, motives etc, not ontologically the same being.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26358013


Jeus said John is Elijah don't twist the scripture
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 09:03 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
Elijah was back with Jesus at the transfiguration and he will be back in the future. It may even be that he did not die yet, The Bible does not say Elijah died and the Gospel of Nicodemus says that he is still in his natural form, will be one of the 2 witnesses that the beast will kill.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26358013


The Bible also says and I quote : And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment Hebrews 9:27

But we know this not to be true because Jesus raised Lazarus from death even after he was dead for three days and his body was rotting and Lazarus eventually died again that is twice.Jesus raised many people from death.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 09:05 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
Jesus merely declared that John was like Elijah, same personalies, motives etc, not ontologically the same being.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26358013


There is no like in that scripture only is
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 09:07 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
that's not reincarnation (as in eastern mysticism) that's resurection.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26358013


It is not resurrection it is clearly reincarnation Elijah came back as John.The scripture says and I am paraphrasing Elijah would come back as John and Jesus said John is Elijah
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 09:12 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
" in the spirit and power of Elijah" (luke1 :17) Do you really think this means Elijah reincarnated? He is carring on the same mission with the same power, he is not the same person.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 09:12 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
In the year 335 Constantine specifically stated that he wanted to remove all references to reincarnation from the bible. In 553 ad, the councel of Nicea in Constantinople had a main purpose, and it was to ratify those specific thoughts. The entire purpose of the conference was for this.
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 09:14 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
Elijah will be back in the end times as it says in zachariah. He will be here probably as one of the 2 witnesses before the day of the lord( which hasn't happened yet).
Ted Nougat
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11/08/2012 09:15 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
About John -
"And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.” Luke 1:17

From Matthew - Jesus speaking:
"Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."
Matthew 11:11-14

The Bible does not teach reincarnation. It teaches resurrection. Elijah never died. His mantle of power fell on Elisha. John came in the spirit and the power of Elijah and fulfilled Malachi's prophecy.

Again, from Jesus Himself - "If ye will receive it."
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 09:18 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
" in the spirit and power of Elijah" (luke1 :17) Do you really think this means Elijah reincarnated? He is carring on the same mission with the same power, he is not the same person.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26358013


But he answered them and said, "Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand."
Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matt. 17:10-13)


The verses are clear that Elijah was reincarnated into John's body. Jesus say's John is Elijah
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 09:18 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
Well according to you he failed because you seem to think this is an example of reincarnation in the Bible.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 09:18 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
About John -
"And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.” Luke 1:17

From Matthew - Jesus speaking:
"Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."
Matthew 11:11-14

The Bible does not teach reincarnation. It teaches resurrection. Elijah never died. His mantle of power fell on Elisha. John came in the spirit and the power of Elijah and fulfilled Malachi's prophecy.

Again, from Jesus Himself - "If ye will receive it."
 Quoting: Ted Nougat 1531479


And after the disciples understood Jesus was talking about Elijah being John the Baptist and Jesus did not correct them if in fact their interpretation was wrong. Then we are left with following:

John the Baptist denies being Elijah when asked if he was Elijah in another passage in the bible and he denies being Elijah, which from the teachings of reincarnation is perfectly understandable since one of the main tenets of reincarnation is that you do not remember previous incarnations.

So that leaves us four options.

1. Jesus was mistaken when he said John the Baptist was Elijah and he did not correct his disciples when they understood Jesus was talking about Elijah being John the Baptist as described in Matt. 17:10-13.

2. John the Baptist was telling the truth as far as he knew given the fundamental tenet of reincarnation that you do not remember previous life's.

3. Jesus was accurate saying John the Baptist was Elijah.
And John the Baptist was telling the truth given one of the fundamental tenets of reincarnation that you do not remember previous incarnations in your current life.

4. Either Jesus or John the Baptist is lying.

Option three is the most logical since they are all telling the truth given the various facts and teachings. Option one, two or four makes either Jesus or John the Baptist a liar.
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 09:20 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
One carrying out the role of Elijah has come. But in the future Elijah will come
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 09:21 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
About John -
"And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.” Luke 1:17

From Matthew - Jesus speaking:
"Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."
Matthew 11:11-14

The Bible does not teach reincarnation. It teaches resurrection. Elijah never died. His mantle of power fell on Elisha. John came in the spirit and the power of Elijah and fulfilled Malachi's prophecy.

Again, from Jesus Himself - "If ye will receive it."
 Quoting: Ted Nougat 1531479


But he answered them and said, "Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand."
Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matt. 17:10-13)


The verses are clear that Elijah was reincarnated into John's body. Jesus say's John is Elijah

Why were all references to reincarnation that the early Christians believed in ripped out?


The verse clearly represents Elijah being reincarnated in John's body
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 09:21 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
Your wife will bear to you a son, a holy son, of whom the prophet wrote,
9 Behold, I send Elijah unto you again before the coming of the Lord;
and he will level the hills and fill the valleys up,
and pave the way for him who shall redeem.

Behold I send you Elijah again
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 09:22 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
Elijah is John the Baptist. He was who was to come, and came just as the scriptures said he would return.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 09:22 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
Behold I say, This man whom Herod bound in chains and cast into a prison cell,
is God's Elijah come again to earth.
drhoecker
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11/08/2012 09:22 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
And the disciples asked him, saying, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"

But he answered them and said, "Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand."
Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matt. 17:10-13)

Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. (Mal. 4:5)


this is one of the major Messianic promises from God that is found in the Bible. And these John is Elijah references clearly demonstrate the reality of reincarnation. So there are two important conclusions we can draw from this:

(1) The Hebrew scriptures prophesied that Elijah himself - not someone like him or someone in the same ministry as him but Elijah himself - would return before the advent of the Messiah.

(2) Jesus declared John to be Elijah when he stated that Elijah has come.
Based on these conclusions alone, either (A) or (B) must be true:

(A) John was Elijah himself which means that Elijah reincarnated as John the Baptist. And if this is true then reincarnation must belong once again in Christian theology. It also means that the concept of corpses crawling out of graves on Judgment Day can be discarded. OR...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27337376



solid proof who is the reincarnated one?,
before Jesus comes!
there is no mistake as the very face is the proof.
in codex as well, signs read out loud.
even the rocks and sand talk .
the wind says the name.
listen is to hear sound,sound speaks out.
see is to have forward vision spiritually speaking.

understand this !

john is to nhoj or know,meaning he KNOWS
the one to be identified by face this means.
where would the lord set faces to view them?
where you would see them ? of course.


in atbash way,
well figure it out.
i know elijah in and out.
as john looked and saw all he saw
i see the same sights
I NHOJ (KNOW)
every sides view i know.
Anonymous Coward
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11/08/2012 09:23 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
" in the spirit and power of Elijah" (luke1 :17) Do you really think this means Elijah reincarnated? He is carring on the same mission with the same power, he is not the same person.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26358013


It is the same spirit, not the same body.
Ted Nougat
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11/08/2012 09:24 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
Again, Elijah never died. How could he be REincarnated per the doctrine of REincarnation? And, by the way, where does the Bible set forth any such doctrine in the whole of Scripture? Your only argument is that it was "taken out" for some personal reason at some time.

I would ask you, what is your reason for wanting to see it there when it's not? You are refusing to believe the council of God and choosing to believe something else someone else supposedly said or did. Reincarnation does not fit the Hebrew/Christian Bible. You're having to read into the text something you want to be there. The text I cited clears up the issue.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 09:24 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
Your wife will bear to you a son, a holy son, of whom the prophet wrote,
9 Behold, I send Elijah unto you again before the coming of the Lord;
and he will level the hills and fill the valleys up,
and pave the way for him who shall redeem.

Behold I send you Elijah again
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27337376


Behold I say, This man whom Herod bound in chains and cast into a prison cell,
is God's Elijah come again to earth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27337376


And the disciples asked him, saying, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"

But he answered them and said, "Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand."
Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matt. 17:10-13)

Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. (Mal. 4:5)


this is one of the major Messianic promises from God that is found in the Bible. And these John is Elijah references clearly demonstrate the reality of reincarnation. So there are two important conclusions we can draw from this:

(1) The Hebrew scriptures prophesied that Elijah himself - not someone like him or someone in the same ministry as him but Elijah himself - would return before the advent of the Messiah.

(2) Jesus declared John to be Elijah when he stated that Elijah has come.
Based on these conclusions alone, either (A) or (B) must be true:

(A) John was Elijah himself which means that Elijah reincarnated as John the Baptist. And if this is true then reincarnation must belong once again in Christian theology. It also means that the concept of corpses crawling out of graves on Judgment Day can be discarded. OR...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27337376



solid proof who is the reincarnated one?,
before Jesus comes!
there is no mistake as the very face is the proof.
in codex as well, signs read out loud.
even the rocks and sand talk .
the wind says the name.
listen is to hear sound,sound speaks out.
see is to have forward vision spiritually speaking.

understand this !

john is to nhoj or know,meaning he KNOWS
the one to be identified by face this means.
where would the lord set faces to view them?
where you would see them ? of course.


in atbash way,
well figure it out.
i know elijah in and out.
as john looked and saw all he saw
i see the same sights
I NHOJ (KNOW)
every sides view i know.
 Quoting: drhoecker 27307992


The disciples asked him,
"Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"
11 Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things.
12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him,
but have done to him everything they wished.
In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."
13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptis
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 09:27 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
Again, Elijah never died. How could he be REincarnated per the doctrine of REincarnation? And, by the way, where does the Bible set forth any such doctrine in the whole of Scripture? Your only argument is that it was "taken out" for some personal reason at some time.

I would ask you, what is your reason for wanting to see it there when it's not? You are refusing to believe the council of God and choosing to believe something else someone else supposedly said or did. Reincarnation does not fit the Hebrew/Christian Bible. You're having to read into the text something you want to be there. The text I cited clears up the issue.
 Quoting: Ted Nougat 1531479


Is the Bible inaccurate when it says it is says and I quote And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment

This is clearly false because Jesus brought Lazarus up from the dead even after he was dead for 3 days and obviously he had to die again. Jesus also raised many people from the dead
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/08/2012 09:28 PM
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Re: Clear examples of reincarnation in the Bible
.. the spirit and power of Elijah." (Luke 1:17)

Those who refute this reincarnation connection say that John the Baptist merely came in the spirit and power of Elijah. However, this is a perfect description of reincarnation: the spirit and power. This is reincarnation - the reincarnation of the spirit. The Bible itself states that John the Baptist possessed the spirit that had previously lived in, and as, the man Elijah - not his physical being and memory, but his spirit.

John carried Elijah's living spirit, but not his physical memory. And since John did not possess Elijah's physical memory, he did not possess the memories of being the man Elijah. Thus, John the Baptist denied being Elijah when asked:

They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" He answered, "No." Finally they said, "Who are you? Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?" John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, "I am the voice of one calling in the desert, 'Make straight the way for the Lord.'" Now some Pharisees who had been sent questioned him, "Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?" "I baptize with water," John replied, "but among you stands one you do not know. He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie." (John 1:21-27)

But Jesus knew better, and said so in the plainest words possible:

"This is the one ... there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist.... And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 11:11-15).

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