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| 05:13 AM | ||
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???Is God Confirming/Proof That The Serpernt Told The Truth??? | |
| Motion & Rest Offer Upgrade  User ID: 27043566  United States11/10/2012 05:49 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 26268975  Slovakia11/10/2012 05:50 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Motion & Rest (OP) User ID: 27043566 United States11/10/2012 05:52 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What is considered "Mortal"? It says man has become like us, is "God" mortal too? Last Edited by Motion & Rest on 11/10/2012 05:54 AM "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you." "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy." "Those who know all, but are lacking in themselves, are utterly lacking." |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 26872940  New Zealand11/10/2012 05:53 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Motion & Rest (OP) User ID: 27043566 United States11/10/2012 05:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | onion=ounce of weed. Snake=??? Sure not a gardner snake Last Edited by Motion & Rest on 11/10/2012 05:57 AM "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you." "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy." "Those who know all, but are lacking in themselves, are utterly lacking." |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 27439960  Romania11/10/2012 05:57 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 26268975 Slovakia11/10/2012 05:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Motion & Rest (OP) User ID: 27043566 United States11/10/2012 06:02 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It appears he spoke a little truth. we may know good and evil, we are not God, we die. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27439960 But do you think God doesn't want us the have knowledge? I seriously doubt that. And what is th tree of life? Well its seems like we can become gods and "God" is scared we might become so. He placed a guard to stop us from gaining imortaility(Tree of Life). And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you." "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy." "Those who know all, but are lacking in themselves, are utterly lacking." |
| Motion & Rest (OP) User ID: 27043566 United States11/10/2012 06:04 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What is considered "Mortal"? It says man has become like us, is "God" mortal too? There you have it: Satan lied. You are not like gods. Where do I have it? "God" himself said We have ecome like him And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you." "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy." "Those who know all, but are lacking in themselves, are utterly lacking." |
| Dr. Mowinckel User ID: 27439743  Norway11/10/2012 06:04 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 26268975 Slovakia11/10/2012 06:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What is considered "Mortal"? It says man has become like us, is "God" mortal too? There you have it: Satan lied. You are not like gods. Where do I have it? "God" himself said We have ecome like him And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Gods are immortal, dude. |
| Motion & Rest (OP) User ID: 27043566 United States11/10/2012 06:07 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | what makes you think satan.. the serpent or whatever would lie. seems like allies he was after. not sabotaging man kind to set himself up to be thrown out of the garden also! Quoting: Dr. Mowinckel Mind boggle is`nt it :-) "Satan" just means advesary. The serpent is the foe to the Genesis "god", "Satan" is the foe of Christ. Who is Christ's "Satan"? "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you." "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy." "Those who know all, but are lacking in themselves, are utterly lacking." |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 27439960 Romania11/10/2012 06:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It appears he spoke a little truth. we may know good and evil, we are not God, we die. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27439960 But do you think God doesn't want us the have knowledge? I seriously doubt that. And what is th tree of life? Well its seems like we can become gods and "God" is scared we might become so. He placed a guard to stop us from gaining imortaility(Tree of Life). And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. It depends it you think Yahweh or bible God is God. For more dilemas of the bible 'visit' www.maurobiglino.com. |
| Shoot straight Johnny User ID: 23121298  United Kingdom11/10/2012 06:08 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It appears he spoke a little truth. we may know good and evil, we are not God, we die. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27439960 But do you think God doesn't want us the have knowledge? I seriously doubt that. And what is th tree of life? Well its seems like we can become gods and "God" is scared we might become so. He placed a guard to stop us from gaining imortaility(Tree of Life). He placed a guard so that man wouldn't be able to live forever in his 'fallen' state....having the capacity for evil. In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God. And the Word Was God. [link to m.youtube.com] |
| Motion & Rest (OP) User ID: 27043566 United States11/10/2012 06:09 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Motion & Rest What is considered "Mortal"? It says man has become like us, is "God" mortal too? There you have it: Satan lied. You are not like gods. Where do I have it? "God" himself said We have ecome like him And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Gods are immortal, dude. So the spirit within me isn't immortal? You think this is real life dude? "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you." "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy." "Those who know all, but are lacking in themselves, are utterly lacking." |
| Motion & Rest (OP) User ID: 27043566 United States11/10/2012 06:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It appears he spoke a little truth. we may know good and evil, we are not God, we die. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27439960 But do you think God doesn't want us the have knowledge? I seriously doubt that. And what is th tree of life? Well its seems like we can become gods and "God" is scared we might become so. He placed a guard to stop us from gaining imortaility(Tree of Life). And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. It depends it you think Yahweh or bible God is God. For more dilemas of the bible 'visit' www.maurobiglino.com. How many different "Gods" are in the bible then? I thought it was one. "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you." "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy." "Those who know all, but are lacking in themselves, are utterly lacking." |
| Simple_Man User ID: 15977994 United States11/10/2012 06:11 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | the serpent lied when he said ..." You shall not surely Die" He told the truth when he said you will be like God knowing good from evil The truth is....God would come down in the cool of the evening and commune with Adam and Eve and teach them ...he was teaching them slowly ....he knew he couldn't just dump the truth on them all at once....that would be like giving a loaded gun to a five yr old eventually God would of told them the truth but he was teaching them wisdom and maturity first so that when he did tell them the deep secrets of His soul ....they could handle it Look at man now.....we know good and evil and look what our leaders do with this knowledge Last Edited by Simple_Man on 11/10/2012 06:12 AM |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 26268975 Slovakia11/10/2012 06:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Where do I have it? "God" himself said We have ecome like him And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Gods are immortal, dude. So the spirit within me isn't immortal? You think this is real life dude? For "here and now" it´s the most real one you get. Here and now you are not just your spirit, e.g. body, mind, etc. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 26268975 Slovakia11/10/2012 06:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It appears he spoke a little truth. we may know good and evil, we are not God, we die. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27439960 But do you think God doesn't want us the have knowledge? I seriously doubt that. And what is th tree of life? Well its seems like we can become gods and "God" is scared we might become so. He placed a guard to stop us from gaining imortaility(Tree of Life). And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. It depends it you think Yahweh or bible God is God. For more dilemas of the bible 'visit' www.maurobiglino.com. How many different "Gods" are in the bible then? I thought it was one. 1God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the “gods”: 2“How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? Selah 3Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. 4Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. 5“They know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ 7But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler. Psalm 82 |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 27357754 United States11/10/2012 06:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | what makes you think satan.. the serpent or whatever would lie. seems like allies he was after. not sabotaging man kind to set himself up to be thrown out of the garden also! Quoting: Dr. Mowinckel Mind boggle is`nt it :-) Satan had been cast down from Heaven and had taken many angels with him because he was trying to get them to turn their back on God and worship him. He was trying to separate mankind from God in the garden. |
| Motion & Rest (OP) User ID: 27043566 United States11/10/2012 06:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Motion & Rest Where do I have it? "God" himself said We have ecome like him And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Gods are immortal, dude. So the spirit within me isn't immortal? You think this is real life dude? For "here and now" it´s the most real one you get. Here and now you are not just your spirit, e.g. body, mind, etc. So my spirit is unable to leave body when I'm at rest? My dreams are more real than this place. "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you." "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy." "Those who know all, but are lacking in themselves, are utterly lacking." |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 26268975 Slovakia11/10/2012 06:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | For "here and now" it´s the most real one you get. Here and now you are not just your spirit, e.g. body, mind, etc. So my spirit is unable to leave body when I'm at rest? My dreams are more real than this place. Enlightenment means Waking up from your dreaming, not the other way. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 27439960 Romania11/10/2012 06:16 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Motion & Rest Well its seems like we can become gods and "God" is scared we might become so. He placed a guard to stop us from gaining imortaility(Tree of Life). And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. It depends it you think Yahweh or bible God is God. For more dilemas of the bible 'visit' www.maurobiglino.com. How many different "Gods" are in the bible then? I thought it was one. 1God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the “gods”: 2“How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? Selah 3Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. 4Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. 5“They know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ 7But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler. Psalm 82 you said gods are immortal but no you are quoting the bible where it says gods die like men. |
| Motion & Rest (OP) User ID: 27043566 United States11/10/2012 06:17 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Motion & Rest Well its seems like we can become gods and "God" is scared we might become so. He placed a guard to stop us from gaining imortaility(Tree of Life). And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. It depends it you think Yahweh or bible God is God. For more dilemas of the bible 'visit' www.maurobiglino.com. How many different "Gods" are in the bible then? I thought it was one. 1God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the “gods”: 2“How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? Selah 3Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. 4Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. 5“They know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ 7But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler. Psalm 82 Does this power have a name? Is it the same Yhwh Yhvh guy? "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you." "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy." "Those who know all, but are lacking in themselves, are utterly lacking." |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 26268975 Slovakia11/10/2012 06:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27439960 It depends it you think Yahweh or bible God is God. For more dilemas of the bible 'visit' www.maurobiglino.com. How many different "Gods" are in the bible then? I thought it was one. 1God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the “gods”: 2“How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? Selah 3Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. 4Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. 5“They know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ 7But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler. Psalm 82 you said gods are immortal but no you are quoting the bible where it says gods die like men. "7But you will die like mere men" = incarnated in a human form, no more gods. At most sons of God. Like Jesus was One. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 27439960 Romania11/10/2012 06:19 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It appears he spoke a little truth. we may know good and evil, we are not God, we die. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27439960 But do you think God doesn't want us the have knowledge? I seriously doubt that. And what is th tree of life? Well its seems like we can become gods and "God" is scared we might become so. He placed a guard to stop us from gaining imortaility(Tree of Life). And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. It depends it you think Yahweh or bible God is God. For more dilemas of the bible 'visit' www.maurobiglino.com. How many different "Gods" are in the bible then? I thought it was one. in the bible there's always stated the posibility of other gods: 'let us...' or ' you shall not have other gods then...' or do you. when in desert the jews had a few possibilities: to follow Yahweh or to follow the gods of the parents of Araham. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 26268975 Slovakia11/10/2012 06:19 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27439960 It depends it you think Yahweh or bible God is God. For more dilemas of the bible 'visit' www.maurobiglino.com. How many different "Gods" are in the bible then? I thought it was one. 1God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the “gods”: 2“How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? Selah 3Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. 4Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. 5“They know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ 7But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler. Psalm 82 Does this power have a name? Is it the same Yhwh Yhvh guy? The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations. Exodus 3:15 |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 27439960 Romania11/10/2012 06:23 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 1God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the “gods”: 2“How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? Selah 3Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. 4Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. 5“They know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ 7But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler. Psalm 82 you said gods are immortal but no you are quoting the bible where it says gods die like men. "7But you will die like mere men" = incarnated in a human form, no more gods. At most sons of God. Like Jesus was One. Sons of God are different than Jesus. They were the nephilim or something. So you say God has more sons like Jesus and there might be the possibilty of them being here more times than 1. |
| Motion & Rest (OP) User ID: 27043566 United States11/10/2012 06:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 1God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the “gods”: 2“How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? Selah 3Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. 4Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. 5“They know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ 7But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler. Psalm 82 Does this power have a name? Is it the same Yhwh Yhvh guy? The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations. Exodus 3:15 He's the father of my body, who's the source of my spirit, material life is isn't true reality, spirit reality is true realty. We are a gross como of the two, mistakes happen in aeons. "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you." "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy." "Those who know all, but are lacking in themselves, are utterly lacking." |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 26268975 Slovakia11/10/2012 06:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975 1God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the “gods”: 2“How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? Selah 3Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. 4Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. 5“They know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ 7But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler. Psalm 82 you said gods are immortal but no you are quoting the bible where it says gods die like men. "7But you will die like mere men" = incarnated in a human form, no more gods. At most sons of God. Like Jesus was One. Sons of God are different than Jesus. They were the nephilim or something. So you say God has more sons like Jesus and there might be the possibilty of them being here more times than 1. The Kingdom of God Jesus was refering to ... is FULL of the sons of God. Jesus is a special One for humans. |
| Motion & Rest (OP) User ID: 27043566 United States11/10/2012 06:27 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27439960 you said gods are immortal but no you are quoting the bible where it says gods die like men. "7But you will die like mere men" = incarnated in a human form, no more gods. At most sons of God. Like Jesus was One. Sons of God are different than Jesus. They were the nephilim or something. So you say God has more sons like Jesus and there might be the possibilty of them being here more times than 1. The Kingdom of God Jesus was refering to ... is FULL of the sons of God. Jesus is a special One for humans. Could Jesus mean He's US? "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you." "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy." "Those who know all, but are lacking in themselves, are utterly lacking." |
