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New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27393213
United States
11/10/2012 10:42 AM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
So what your saying is...if you don't like the price don't buy it...if you purchase it you except the price...that's capitalism

What the state of NJ is doing by penalizing the business is communism.
NewsUpdater

User ID: 4458411
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11/10/2012 10:42 AM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
Price gouging during an emergency situation is criminal as well as immoral.

Chasing the almighty dollar has brought down many a man.




Hey commie, this is not price gouging, its called fair market price for the product. When something is more rare, its more expensive. Gasoline is rare in the northeast right now, that makes it more expensive. Government telling indpendant business owners how they can price their fuel is communistic and is not part of a FREE REPUBLIC.

I agree that the business owners should try to hold the cost down as much as possible and do the morally correct thing, but the government has no legal right to order them to drop the price.

If they are so concerned why don't the government bring in trucks with gas and give it away or sell it at a much cheaper price than the businesses and take away their business. Oh thats right, because they don't really care about you or me.
Fact are important, They should be presented first, opinions will vary.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13109120
Canada
11/10/2012 10:49 AM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
The market should be regulated voluntarily by the consumers, not by the government. It takes a population of intelligent and wise consumers to prevent monopoly, and mass boycott to destroy a monopoly once its in place. We don't need the government to get involved.

But like I said, this approach requires an intelligent and caring populace, which is something we don't have, and hence our shitty system we live under. Government regulation has only made it worse, especially since the government usually inteferes only to help maintain monopolies rather than prevent them (politicians acting for the benefit of their corporate donors and lobbyists). Government regulation is the VERY REASON we have so much monopoly in this country.

Can you tell me that the medical and pharma industry monopolies are not the direct result of government regulation? Such regulations are in place to ensure the survival of those monopolies. Former executives from the largest corporations, as well as controlling stock holders, fill all of the key positions in those government regulatory bodies.


Well said, I agree completely. People need to take control of their own lives and stop depending on the government to step in every time something bad happens. Life is not fair and equal. You are not entitled to cheap fuel,food, big screen TVs etc... Life is not easy, cheap or free. Nobody owes you anything. BE PREPARED. Have a plan in place and depend on yourself.
Babylon's Rebel (OP)

User ID: 1508631
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11/10/2012 10:53 AM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
...


And you only prove that you have NO clue what I believe.

A PhD means shit. It means you've been given a stamp of approval by the NWO.

Complete government control over the prices and distribution of goods, with the mindset that the people have a RIGHT to control or take what someone else has (collective ownership vs. private property) IS communism.

I am in favor of the people, not a despot, ruling the nation, SO LONG AS THEY DO NOT INFRINGE ON ANYONE'S RIGHTS. Not even a majority vote should infringe upon a minority. I'm not in favor of despotism, or of mob-rule by the people. I'm in favor of individual rights, and personal and private property.
 Quoting: Babylon's Rebel


I love it. You say people know nothing about economics, but when they are shown to know something, you say it means shit. In other words, you are just an ideologue. Got it. Fucking owned. You are the one who has no knowledge of what you talk about, as can be seen through the use of the word, communism.

Oh, and btw, a monopoly (which easily develops without regulations) means people having to deal with it are not free. A monopoly is not communist, but the end product of unregulated capitalism (which is not the same thing as free markets, which, if you knew economics, you would know). Now, part of the role of government is to make sure there really ARE free markets by regulating things so to prevent the end of unregulated capitalism, the monopoly which demolishes freedom.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13221383


The market should be regulated voluntarily by the consumers, not by the government. It takes a population of intelligent and wise consumers to prevent monopoly, and mass boycott to destroy a monopoly once its in place. We don't need the government to get involved.

But like I said, this approach requires an intelligent and caring populace, which is something we don't have, and hence our shitty system we live under. Government regulation has only made it worse, especially since the government usually inteferes only to help maintain monopolies rather than prevent them (politicians acting for the benefit of their corporate donors and lobbyists). Government regulation is the VERY REASON we have so much monopoly in this country.

Can you tell me that the medical and pharma industry monopolies are not the direct result of government regulation? Such regulations are in place to ensure the survival of those monopolies. Former executives from the largest corporations, as well as controlling stock holders, fill all of the key positions in those government regulatory bodies.
 Quoting: Babylon's Rebel


Again, you show no understanding to economics. Consumers vs monopoly for something which is essential for life means the consumers cannot regulate anything. You still show yourself ignorant of economics, and what freedom itself is about. When one side controls everything at the table, the other has only the freedom of obedience or death; that is not true freedom.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13221383


When one side controls everything, as you said, you have a monopoly. Monopolies never arise in the first place unless the consumers allow them to (or unless the government enforces a monopoly). The populace should NEVER allow themselves to become dependent on a monopolistic power in the first place.

Self reliance is the solution. Government control breeds monopoly.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24537691
Canada
11/10/2012 10:58 AM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
Price gouging during an emergency situation is criminal as well as immoral.

Chasing the almighty dollar has brought down many a man.
 Quoting: NewsUpdater




Hey commie, this is not price gouging, its called fair market price for the product. When something is more rare, its more expensive. Gasoline is rare in the northeast right now, that makes it more expensive. Government telling indpendant business owners how they can price their fuel is communistic and is not part of a FREE REPUBLIC.

I agree that the business owners should try to hold the cost down as much as possible and do the morally correct thing, but the government has no legal right to order them to drop the price.

If they are so concerned why don't the government bring in trucks with gas and give it away or sell it at a much cheaper price than the businesses and take away their business. Oh thats right, because they don't really care about you or me.


You have your opinion, I have mine.

People here help each other during an emergency, making money during a time of crisis is not their priority.
It's not about communism but about helping your neighbours during a time of need.


I stand by my response.

s226
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1421478
United States
11/10/2012 11:06 AM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
I just really can't believe these people didn't buy gas before this happened. We were warned over and over and over for more than a week.

One of the gas stations they mentioned in the article is in Paterson. For those of you not familiar with Paterson, it is a ghetto shit hole full of mouth breathing gang sympathizers.

I'd bet whatever markup the durka-durka who owned the place pocketed doesn't cover what he gets stuck up for in the course of year.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3650237
United States
11/10/2012 11:09 AM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
Welcome to the obamanaton. It will only get worse and worsre from here.
Nothing you can do except sit back and hang on...but-not to worry...we won't last much longer.
I sure do miss my America.
'sigh'...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3650237
United States
11/10/2012 11:10 AM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
Welcome to the obamanaton. It will only get worse and worsre from here.
Nothing you can do except sit back and hang on...but-not to worry...we won't last much longer.
I sure do miss my America.
'sigh'...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3650237


OBAMANATION! Damned computer...thinks it's a demoncrat.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13109120
Canada
11/10/2012 11:20 AM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
If a business is in a position where they can donate or cut down pricing to help out, that is a great thing. The government forcing a business to sell a product or service at XXXX dollars only causes undue hardship on said business. I do NOT condone price gauging, but the gov't should not intervene unless someones RIGHTS have been violated.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27446458
United States
11/10/2012 11:25 AM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
[link to money.cnn.com]

I'm exaggerating how bad things are because I'm venting.
 Quoting: Babylon's Rebel


No your not, and your not even close to the truth of the depths of evil in government.
truth
User ID: 27140421
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11/10/2012 11:53 AM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
[link to money.cnn.com]

I'm sick and tired of the blatant communism in this country. I'm tired of people with a Kindergarten-level understanding of economics and government (they call themselves Democrats) acting like they know what's best for everyone else. I'm tired of them pretending they're looking out for the little guy.

I bet if you made both political parties take IQ tests, the Democrats would score at least 30 points lower on average.

Am I promoting the Republican Party? No. They're just as bad, but in a slightly different way. The republicans are smarter, and want some good things, but they're deceived. Republican politicans lie, and pretend to be conservative, but they're not.

The democratic politicans don't have to lie or deceive anyone. They're just blatantly stupid, evil, and communistic.

Obviously there's some good in both party platforms. But not much. I'm exaggerating how bad things are because I'm venting.
 Quoting: Babylon's Rebel


I see demoncraps as grabass gossips, always wanting to get their nose into your personal business; wanting to see in your bedroom, and use your bathroom; always touchy touchy your breast or crotch area (tsa proves that); giving inane advice; conversations that consist wholly of nosy questions, and are hearty/happy eaters with delinquent manners, who can never get the punch line, and you always have to explain it to them into their blank faces. Oh, yes, and they never laugh about anything, unless it is something mean, and their favorite subject is people, when theyarenot parroting clichés, and i see Rephewblicans as all about cash-money-to-the-death
truth
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11/10/2012 11:57 AM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
Price gouging during an emergency situation is criminal as well as immoral.

Chasing the almighty dollar has brought down many a man.
 Quoting: NewsUpdater




Hey commie, this is not price gouging, its called fair market price for the product. When something is more rare, its more expensive. Gasoline is rare in the northeast right now, that makes it more expensive. Government telling indpendant business owners how they can price their fuel is communistic and is not part of a FREE REPUBLIC.

I agree that the business owners should try to hold the cost down as much as possible and do the morally correct thing, but the government has no legal right to order them to drop the price.

If they are so concerned why don't the government bring in trucks with gas and give it away or sell it at a much cheaper price than the businesses and take away their business. Oh thats right, because they don't really care about you or me.


gouging in Florida, after a hurricane, is illegal
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26476073
United States
11/10/2012 12:01 PM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
[link to money.cnn.com]

I'm sick and tired of the blatant communism in this country. I'm tired of people with a Kindergarten-level understanding of economics and government (they call themselves Democrats) acting like they know what's best for everyone else. I'm tired of them pretending they're looking out for the little guy.

I bet if you made both political parties take IQ tests, the Democrats would score at least 30 points lower on average.

Am I promoting the Republican Party? No. They're just as bad, but in a slightly different way. The republicans are smarter, and want some good things, but they're deceived. Republican politicans lie, and pretend to be conservative, but they're not.

The democratic politicans don't have to lie or deceive anyone. They're just blatantly stupid, evil, and communistic.

Obviously there's some good in both party platforms. But not much. I'm exaggerating how bad things are because I'm venting.
 Quoting: Babylon's Rebel


WoW! What the hell were you thinking when you posted this..or better yet, what weren't you thinking. Free market trade is one thing, however raping people who can't even get to work in order to pay for "Normally" priced items is another. I am a believer of less government interfering, but there needs to be regulations in place for ALL things. If you think that living by Wasteland rules is the way to go, you are sadly mistaken.

As someone else posted..I'd like to see what you would do if disaster struck you and your community. I'm sure you'd be crying like an unpaid Hooker. Walk a mile in someone elses shoes before you make such an ignorant thread in the future.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4866335


The problem is that when you give the government the power to regulate such things of which you speak, they go wild with it, and before you know it, the people become slaves to a totalitarian dictatorship.

You can't make exceptions when it comes to government. If you give them just a little, they will go miles with it. You set a precedent, and then one new bullshit law after another will keep getting passed until there's no freedom left.

If disaster strikes, and my family is in desperate circumstances, I don't all of the sudden possess the right to steal from my desperate neighbors, or force businesses to lower their prices for me. Hopefully people will be charitable voluntarily. If not, then too bad for me. I should have been more prepared. If people gouge, so what--it's their product. It's their personal property. If I use government to seize control of it for my own benefit, how am I any better? Two wrongs don't make a right.
 Quoting: Babylon's Rebel


And that is the exact thinking as to why the East coast is now in the situation it is. ME ME ME. America was a great country when neighbors looked out for one another, cared about each others children and welfare. Fellow americans pitched in to help one another out in time of need. The change starts with YOUR mentallity towards other human beings. The Hotels, Gas stations, and other business will survive with or without raising prices. Supply and demand applies in non-disaster situations. America is lost, and anyone with an ounce of sense knows it. However, this is one situation I agree with enforced regulations.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4866335


You're not going to like this response to your post! Human beings are governed by the carnal human spirit. In an emergency or disaster, especially one that destroys the infrastucture that they have become dependent on, the real nature of humanity, the "beast", rises up! What happened during the "Egyptian Spring" is a perfect example of how human beings will act when their "way of life" is totally disrupted. Same type of thing will occur in any nation when their "way of life" is totally disrupted! They will fight and kill each other to obtain what someone else has in order to survive! The carnal spirit within humanity is the cause of this way of thinking! Unless that spirit is replaced by the Holy Spirit, the end results will be desolation and destruction, just as the prophets foretold!
Sungaze_At_Dawn

User ID: 1458670
Canada
11/10/2012 12:03 PM

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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
This thread is the perfect example of how most people don't have a clue what communism is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7944629


This!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18581143
United States
11/10/2012 12:59 PM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
yay
Anonymous Coward
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11/10/2012 01:02 PM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
This thread is the perfect example of how most people don't have a clue what communism is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7944629


I agree.

OP has his heart in the right place....but needs some schooling on what Socialism and Communism is.....and what it does to people and society.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6990196
United States
11/10/2012 01:17 PM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
After Hurricane Andrew two people brought an entire tractor trailer load of one gallon water to Homestead just to sell for $6 each for drinking water. They opened the back door of the truck and expected to start taking money but within seconds the crowd had them out of the way and swiped the entire load.
IssueX

User ID: 14348632
United States
11/10/2012 01:18 PM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
If I own an egg, I can sell it for 10 cents
or a ten million dollars.
It's MY egg.
If you don't want to buy it, that is your right.

I saw that left-wing maggot Lis Wiehl on O'Reilly
almost foaming at her commie rat mouth over some
grocer charging 10 bucks for a gallon of milk.

She wanted the guy crucified.

I would have poured the milk over her left-wing
rat bastard head if she gave me any shit about it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27446676


So blind with rage. I guarantee that if you polled every Republican in the country that they would overwhelmingly agree with enforcing the existing laws on price gouging. You are a sad little man.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7944629


^This^

Price gouging during an emergency situation is criminal as well as immoral.

Chasing the almighty dollar has brought down many a man.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24537691


off the topic but relevant

I moved to Canada in 2002 because I hated GWB and thought govt health care was a fine idea

when I got residency and went to the doctor in my little area of Nova Scotia, I was shocked at the 10-15 hr lines at the ER just to get to see someone to prescribe anti biotics for bronchitis and ear infection

there were no private doctors for love or money, my only option was the ER

My friend from Quebec told me the ER lines were worse in Quebec

When I asked why this was, they said few people wanted to be doctors, and the ones who did went down to the US to practice, because they could make more money to pay off their loans. The nurse at the 2nd ER I went to told me thats where her nephew was headed

She said he had originally wanted to practice medicine in Canada, but "they" wanted him to jump through so many hoops for little reward so he decided to head to Chicago instead

I ended up driving down to Portland Maine to see an ENT specialist because I could. It was worth it to me to drive 12 hrs with a 105 degree fever, just to see someone on demand, and PAY him

Suddenly I realized you can't force people to give you their services for a lower price than they feel is fair - to them

Now somewhere there is a middle ground between heartless gouging which we all know is wrong, and pricing something ideally, but unrealistically so low that it is not worth the manufacturer's or specialist's time to deliver it

The next battle for our country will be this exact one. What is playing out in NJ may just be a preview of coming events in the battle for health care
IssueX

User ID: 14348632
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11/10/2012 01:29 PM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
People here help each other during an emergency, making money during a time of crisis is not their priority.
It's not about communism but about helping your neighbours during a time of need.


I stand by my response.

s226
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24537691


There are some very good people in Canada

There are some very good people in the USA...people who drove from Georgia and South Carolina to try and connect people's electricity and do other repairs for free...people who drove from all over the country in 9/11 just to risk their own health to help dig bodies out of the rubble

people who offered their homes to Katrina victims...I know I did, and others I knew in the northeast did as well

I don't think any country has a monopoly on good people

however you cannot MANDATE morality. It has to be given freely

I would offer my empty rooms to someone I knew in need, or a family suggested by a church group or social organization I trusted

however if the government comandeered my home and forced me to donate my home to people I didn't know and didn't trust, that would be wrong

Gifts must be given freely, from the heart, and if people have lost their generosity of spirit that is more a fault of parental upbringing or the influence of the media which provides no positive examples of charity and helpfulness

However, if a station owner wshes to attempt to gouge, I say let him. Another station owner down the street will price things more fairly, and he will get all the business

Again, the market will reward the station owner who is able to cover his costs and yet provide the most competitive price...plus that businessman will no doubt win new customers who will remember how he behaved during a crisis

In that case, being humane while staying in business will also be the smart thing to do in the longer term

but you CANNOT FORCE morality...that always backfires...it backfires for republicans and democrats alike

and that is why I am a libertarian
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27425323
United States
11/10/2012 01:43 PM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
shut up
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27386619
United States
11/10/2012 02:09 PM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
So enforcing a standing law is now communism?
Taking advantage of allready suffering people is the right thing to do, as long as you make as much money as possible?

You, sir, are not a republican or democrat, you are a fool, just wait till nature hits you with a hammer and everything you own is blown to smithereens.
I bet you call yourself a christian, too?!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14327987


If you own a product or can perform a service, you are not required to sell it. If it's to your advantage to just shut down and use the product yourself, it's your right.

NOBODY is required to be of service to humanity. Of course, all actions and inactions have consequences.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27304459
United States
11/10/2012 10:22 PM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
[link to money.cnn.com]

I'm sick and tired of the blatant communism in this country. I'm tired of people with a Kindergarten-level understanding of economics and government (they call themselves Democrats) acting like they know what's best for everyone else. I'm tired of them pretending they're looking out for the little guy.

I bet if you made both political parties take IQ tests, the Democrats would score at least 30 points lower on average.

Am I promoting the Republican Party? No. They're just as bad, but in a slightly different way. The republicans are smarter, and want some good things, but they're deceived. Republican politicans lie, and pretend to be conservative, but they're not.

The democratic politicans don't have to lie or deceive anyone. They're just blatantly stupid, evil, and communistic.

Obviously there's some good in both party platforms. But not much. I'm exaggerating how bad things are because I'm venting.
 Quoting: Babylon's Rebel


You're not as smart as you think you are.

If price gouging were not a crime, the market price would rise so that supply equals demand. Presumably, supply cannot increase in this emergency, so the price would go up to reallocate the demand; those willing to pay the most would get that supply.

The needs in this time of emergency are that people get enough fuel to run their generators, and some for their cars for transportation. It's all being used for that, as it is, so it is already being used optimally. Maybe it's better to reallocate so everyone gets a little, like odd/even day rationing, but that is not what allowing prices to rise would do.

The equilibrium outcome, while still Pareto-optimal, is bad if it results in people freezing or having no water because they cannot AFFORD any fuel, while others have an effectively artificial abundance.

When things go back to normal, then it's time to reintroduce market incentives.

I am almost sure you didn't understand all of this, but if you did, you learned something.
Babylon's Rebel (OP)

User ID: 1508631
United States
11/11/2012 12:44 AM
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Re: New Jersey implements Communism against 8 free-market businesses
[link to money.cnn.com]

I'm sick and tired of the blatant communism in this country. I'm tired of people with a Kindergarten-level understanding of economics and government (they call themselves Democrats) acting like they know what's best for everyone else. I'm tired of them pretending they're looking out for the little guy.

I bet if you made both political parties take IQ tests, the Democrats would score at least 30 points lower on average.

Am I promoting the Republican Party? No. They're just as bad, but in a slightly different way. The republicans are smarter, and want some good things, but they're deceived. Republican politicans lie, and pretend to be conservative, but they're not.

The democratic politicans don't have to lie or deceive anyone. They're just blatantly stupid, evil, and communistic.

Obviously there's some good in both party platforms. But not much. I'm exaggerating how bad things are because I'm venting.
 Quoting: Babylon's Rebel


You're not as smart as you think you are.

If price gouging were not a crime, the market price would rise so that supply equals demand. Presumably, supply cannot increase in this emergency, so the price would go up to reallocate the demand; those willing to pay the most would get that supply.

The needs in this time of emergency are that people get enough fuel to run their generators, and some for their cars for transportation. It's all being used for that, as it is, so it is already being used optimally. Maybe it's better to reallocate so everyone gets a little, like odd/even day rationing, but that is not what allowing prices to rise would do.

The equilibrium outcome, while still Pareto-optimal, is bad if it results in people freezing or having no water because they cannot AFFORD any fuel, while others have an effectively artificial abundance.

When things go back to normal, then it's time to reintroduce market incentives.

I am almost sure you didn't understand all of this, but if you did, you learned something.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27304459


You can support communism all you want. To me, it's complete bullshit. I believe in private property. What right does the government have to ration that gasoline? It belongs to the gas station. The gas station can sell it to whomever it wants, for however much it wants, or not sell it at all. It's called private property. I'm sick of everyone on here telling me it's not communism. YES IT IS. How is it NOT communism?!?!?

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