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A Strange thing happened in Church today

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1898146
United States
11/11/2012 04:47 AM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Lol... Church. You people love your fairy tales. Free yourself from shackles of religion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5739241


open yourself to the wonders of GOD
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1898146
United States
11/11/2012 04:49 AM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Even monkeys know when the light goes they must find shelter and safety. Those with eyes will see; those without will stumble in the darkness that decends. He was there to sow a seed of discord.
 Quoting: asymetriclogic



Yes, a seed of doubt, that's how it felt to me, for a moment I looked at what we were doing, from his point-of-view, and it kinda does seem so outlandish, outrageous even..

But faith is an amazing process, and I'm not giving up on it.

The second reading:


Christ did not enter into a sanctuary made by hands,
a copy of the true one, but heaven itself,
that he might now appear before God on our behalf.
Not that he might offer himself repeatedly,
as the high priest enters each year into the sanctuary
with blood that is not his own;
if that were so, he would have had to suffer repeatedly
from the foundation of the world.
But now once for all he has appeared at the end of the ages
to take away sin by his sacrifice.
Just as it is appointed that human beings die once,
and after this the judgment, so also Christ,
offered once to take away the sins of many,
will appear a second time, not to take away sin
but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await him.
 Quoting: K.Kool


THIS THIS THIS IS EVERYTHING!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27017868
United States
11/11/2012 04:49 AM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Schziophrenia sounds like.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1198955
Iceland
11/11/2012 04:50 AM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Lol... Church. You people love your fairy tales. Free yourself from shackles of religion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5739241


open yourself to the wonders of GOD
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1898146


pope2 = God
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1898146
United States
11/11/2012 04:50 AM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
So what's up with this new church lady deal.....
 Quoting: SHR



You don't like it?

;)
 Quoting: K.Kool





i BET IT LOOKS GREAT ON YOU!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1898146
United States
11/11/2012 04:51 AM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Lol... Church. You people love your fairy tales. Free yourself from shackles of religion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5739241


open yourself to the wonders of GOD
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1898146


pope2 = God
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1198955


PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR EQUASION.... HOW IS THERE AN EQUALITY>
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24279842
Canada
11/11/2012 04:52 AM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Roman Catholicism is not so much monkey business as a demonic cult. Do some research into the Inquisition and find out the real targets (hint: it wasn't witches or homosexuals). The Inquisition still exists (under a different name) and was headed for 20 years by the man who now is called the "Pope". Read the Bible -- the Old Testament -- about how God told his people to SMASH DOWN the obelisks in Egypt as they conquered each city, but see how the popes have resurrected these abominations as pilgrim markers in Rome.

RCs are told to pray to angels and dead people (what they call saints). The New Testament tells us NOT to pray to angels or dead people, only to God.

I could go on and on, but the choice is yours. If you love God and truth more than you love Roman Catholicism, the least you can do is pick up God's book (the Bible, not the Catholic Bible) and read it from cover to cover. Compare what God's people are told NOT to do with what Catholicism tells adherents to do.


"Come out of her, my people!" Find out what that quote refers to in the Bible, and please take it to heart.

I love God and truth, but for many years I loved Catholicism more. Then one day God gave me a choice and showed me what it was that I "loved" when I loved Catholicism. I left that demon cult the same day and have never been back since.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1198955
Iceland
11/11/2012 05:02 AM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Lol... Church. You people love your fairy tales. Free yourself from shackles of religion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5739241


open yourself to the wonders of GOD
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1898146


pope2 = God
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1198955


PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR EQUASION.... HOW IS THERE AN EQUALITY>
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1898146


Well, one is a dirty, petty, selfish, hate filled, obnoxius, murdering, genocidal maniac...and the other is the head of the Vatican :-)
K.Kool (OP)

User ID: 25243832
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11/11/2012 05:33 AM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Even monkeys know when the light goes they must find shelter and safety. Those with eyes will see; those without will stumble in the darkness that decends. He was there to sow a seed of discord.
 Quoting: asymetriclogic



Yes, a seed of doubt, that's how it felt to me, for a moment I looked at what we were doing, from his point-of-view, and it kinda does seem so outlandish, outrageous even..

But faith is an amazing process, and I'm not giving up on it.

The second reading:


Christ did not enter into a sanctuary made by hands,
a copy of the true one, but heaven itself,
that he might now appear before God on our behalf.
Not that he might offer himself repeatedly,
as the high priest enters each year into the sanctuary
with blood that is not his own;
if that were so, he would have had to suffer repeatedly
from the foundation of the world.
But now once for all he has appeared at the end of the ages
to take away sin by his sacrifice.
Just as it is appointed that human beings die once,
and after this the judgment, so also Christ,
offered once to take away the sins of many,
will appear a second time, not to take away sin
but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await him.
 Quoting: K.Kool


THIS THIS THIS IS EVERYTHING!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1898146




Yes, it is!


hf



First Reading:


In those days, Elijah the prophet went to Zarephath.
As he arrived at the entrance of the city,
a widow was gathering sticks there; he called out to her,
"Please bring me a small cupful of water to drink."
She left to get it, and he called out after her,
"Please bring along a bit of bread."
She answered, "As the LORD, your God, lives,
I have nothing baked; there is only a handful of flour in my jar
and a little oil in my jug.
Just now I was collecting a couple of sticks,
to go in and prepare something for myself and my son;
when we have eaten it, we shall die."
Elijah said to her, "Do not be afraid.
Go and do as you propose.
But first make me a little cake and bring it to me.
Then you can prepare something for yourself and your son.
For the LORD, the God of Israel, says,
'The jar of flour shall not go empty,
nor the jug of oil run dry,
until the day when the LORD sends rain upon the earth.'"
She left and did as Elijah had said.
She was able to eat for a year, and he and her son as well;
the jar of flour did not go empty,
nor the jug of oil run dry,
as the LORD had foretold through Elijah.

Last Edited by #KK# on 11/11/2012 05:37 AM
euc

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11/11/2012 05:39 AM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
He was doing what I enjoy doing. Fucking with a bunch of superstitious dipshits. I salute him whoever he is.
A sense of humour is a fine and rare thing these days and this fine fellow certainly has one.
Satan as a symbolic entity is very powerful and the very idea of such 'evil' holds sway over the weak minded.
This guy was having fun and has probably done it elsewhere to great effect.
When he leaves he's probably doubled over with laughter knowing he just frightened the living bejesus out of a bunch of reprobates.
All hail the 'suity devil dude! :-)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1198955


hahahahahahaa +1
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22342469
United States
11/11/2012 05:42 AM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Isn't there anyone with anything intelligent to ask me?

:(

I'm disappointed in Godlike...
 Quoting: K.Kool


He was wondering what you were doing there, worshipping a god that you were too lazy to investigate the true nature of, being told lies by a man who represents the largest and most pervasive pedophile and money laundering scam in history.
chauchat

User ID: 10858311
United States
11/11/2012 04:11 PM

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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Even monkeys know when the light goes they must find shelter and safety. Those with eyes will see; those without will stumble in the darkness that decends. He was there to sow a seed of discord.
 Quoting: asymetriclogic



Yes, a seed of doubt, that's how it felt to me, for a moment I looked at what we were doing, from his point-of-view, and it kinda does seem so outlandish, outrageous even..

But faith is an amazing process, and I'm not giving up on it.

The second reading:


Christ did not enter into a sanctuary made by hands,
a copy of the true one, but heaven itself,
that he might now appear before God on our behalf.
Not that he might offer himself repeatedly,
as the high priest enters each year into the sanctuary
with blood that is not his own;
if that were so, he would have had to suffer repeatedly
from the foundation of the world.
But now once for all he has appeared at the end of the ages
to take away sin by his sacrifice.
Just as it is appointed that human beings die once,
and after this the judgment, so also Christ,
offered once to take away the sins of many,
will appear a second time, not to take away sin
but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await him.
 Quoting: K.Kool


THIS THIS THIS IS EVERYTHING!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1898146




Yes, it is!


hf



First Reading:


In those days, Elijah the prophet went to Zarephath.
As he arrived at the entrance of the city,
a widow was gathering sticks there; he called out to her,
"Please bring me a small cupful of water to drink."
She left to get it, and he called out after her,
"Please bring along a bit of bread."
She answered, "As the LORD, your God, lives,
I have nothing baked; there is only a handful of flour in my jar
and a little oil in my jug.
Just now I was collecting a couple of sticks,
to go in and prepare something for myself and my son;
when we have eaten it, we shall die."
Elijah said to her, "Do not be afraid.
Go and do as you propose.
But first make me a little cake and bring it to me.
Then you can prepare something for yourself and your son.
For the LORD, the God of Israel, says,
'The jar of flour shall not go empty,
nor the jug of oil run dry,
until the day when the LORD sends rain upon the earth.'"
She left and did as Elijah had said.
She was able to eat for a year, and he and her son as well;
the jar of flour did not go empty,
nor the jug of oil run dry,
as the LORD had foretold through Elijah.
 Quoting: K.Kool


Yes, please, PLEASE don't give up on your faith, but please consider that directly above in the Elijah reading where it says LORD in all caps, there's a reason it's all caps. Below is an excerpt from an article about the NAB 2011, the new Catholic Bible translation.:

"No effort appears to be made to restore the Divine Name to this version of the scriptures. The Tetragrammaton (written from right to left) may be transliterated into English as YHWH (or, JHVH). It occurs 6,828 times in the Hebrew text printed in Biblia Hebraica and Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia. Some also prefer the accepted Hebrew version of the divine name Yahweh.

In the King James Version of Psalm 83:18 for instance, it reads, "That men may know that thou, whose name is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth." The name was removed in the New King James Version to read, "That they may know that You, whose name alone is the LORD, are the Most High over all the earth."

The New American Bible uses this as the text in Psalm 83:19, "Show them you alone are the LORD, the Most High over all the earth." In the footnotes it is interesting to note, it says concerning this verse, "and may they be pursued until they acknowledge the name of Israel's God."

Read more: [link to digitaljournal.com]
K.Kool (OP)

User ID: 24202662
Australia
11/11/2012 05:05 PM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Wow, I can see all the misunderstandings and outright lies about Catholicism creep out in this thread.

Is it so hard to accept that Jesus Christ did not leave His Church to just sit there as it had started for thousands of years?

There has been a whole process of illumination, enlightenment, revelation, and growth going on while we wait for His return, and all the while, he has mystically nourished us, with food for our souls, through the eucharist.

Anyway, I'll be surprised to see this guy again, and if it gave him a cheap thrill, it gave me one too, lol.
Mary
User ID: 20541213
United States
11/11/2012 05:15 PM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Roman Catholicism is not so much monkey business as a demonic cult. Do some research into the Inquisition and find out the real targets (hint: it wasn't witches or homosexuals). The Inquisition still exists (under a different name) and was headed for 20 years by the man who now is called the "Pope". Read the Bible -- the Old Testament -- about how God told his people to SMASH DOWN the obelisks in Egypt as they conquered each city, but see how the popes have resurrected these abominations as pilgrim markers in Rome.

RCs are told to pray to angels and dead people (what they call saints). The New Testament tells us NOT to pray to angels or dead people, only to God.

I could go on and on, but the choice is yours. If you love God and truth more than you love Roman Catholicism, the least you can do is pick up God's book (the Bible, not the Catholic Bible) and read it from cover to cover. Compare what God's people are told NOT to do with what Catholicism tells adherents to do.


"Come out of her, my people!" Find out what that quote refers to in the Bible, and please take it to heart.

I love God and truth, but for many years I loved Catholicism more. Then one day God gave me a choice and showed me what it was that I "loved" when I loved Catholicism. I left that demon cult the same day and have never been back since.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24279842


Rigggghttttt....

How easy it is to leave the faith, then, you get to decide.

You'll be back dear one. Once Catholic, always Catholic.

The Remnant is Roman Catholic. Everyone in Heaven is
Roman Catholic. Give your "yes" at the Great Warning, I'll
say a prayer for the grace....
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19374174
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11/11/2012 05:18 PM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Sounds like someone been watching a "Prophecy" marathon.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20541213
United States
11/11/2012 05:21 PM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Wow, I can see all the misunderstandings and outright lies about Catholicism creep out in this thread.

Is it so hard to accept that Jesus Christ did not leave His Church to just sit there as it had started for thousands of years?

There has been a whole process of illumination, enlightenment, revelation, and growth going on while we wait for His return, and all the while, he has mystically nourished us, with food for our souls, through the eucharist.

Anyway, I'll be surprised to see this guy again, and if it gave him a cheap thrill, it gave me one too, lol.
 Quoting: K.Kool


k.,

Good word "illumination", it's coming, maybe next year?
God wants us all to believe the same and another Scriptural, where there is much sin, much grace. We are of the generation who will experience God touching every heart. Say "yes" when He shows you, do not let pride
get in the way, we are all sinners.

Conchita of Garabandal...and Protestant prophets recently...

"When Communism comes again"....
Kayak Pulling Kayak
Redneck Yacht Club

User ID: 20524828
United States
11/11/2012 05:27 PM

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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Isn't there anyone with anything intelligent to ask me?

:(

I'm disappointed in Godlike...
 Quoting: K.Kool


Don't be

It's an interesting story but not very uncommon

The man likely has issues and was looking for attention

My friend recently told me a similar story that happened to his father while teaching a class at church

Some creep interrupted the class wearing sunglasses, looking like a thug and security had him removed

They later told my friends father that the man is bi-polar and was off his meds

Several weeks later the same man returned and did the same thing

Think nothing of it

Just a creep
Doom on!
ANHEDONIC

User ID: 26795689
United States
11/11/2012 05:31 PM

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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
It is monkey business. Find God within. Be your own priest, guru and then you will know God. The only way to God is thru you own heart.



 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27488551


goofy thum

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
K.Kool (OP)

User ID: 24202662
Australia
11/11/2012 05:33 PM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Wow, I can see all the misunderstandings and outright lies about Catholicism creep out in this thread.

Is it so hard to accept that Jesus Christ did not leave His Church to just sit there as it had started for thousands of years?

There has been a whole process of illumination, enlightenment, revelation, and growth going on while we wait for His return, and all the while, he has mystically nourished us, with food for our souls, through the eucharist.

Anyway, I'll be surprised to see this guy again, and if it gave him a cheap thrill, it gave me one too, lol.
 Quoting: K.Kool


k.,

Good word "illumination", it's coming, maybe next year?
God wants us all to believe the same and another Scriptural, where there is much sin, much grace. We are of the generation who will experience God touching every heart. Say "yes" when He shows you, do not let pride
get in the way,
we are all sinners.

Conchita of Garabandal...and Protestant prophets recently...

"When Communism comes again"....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213



Ahh, yeah, I know all about pride.

What is this about communism coming again? Do you mean its a precursor of Jesus' return?
Anonymous Coward
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United States
11/11/2012 05:35 PM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Anonymous Coward
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11/11/2012 05:35 PM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
I don't mean to infringe on your beliefs... But.

When I am near a church or listening to someone preach. I think the same exact thing, though I do not say it out-loud. I don't know why he would go to your church to preach, everyone knows that religious people are stuck in their beliefs and not going to conform to anything else.

But the reason I would be doing it because I honestly believe religion is just a brainwash. There is no Jesus and no God. There may be things like this...but Jesus is simply a symbol that has been passed down for millions of years stemming from other religions since we people were born.

Based entirely upon Astronomy, seasons and change in our world. Jesus is merely a false idol that was once prototyped as Joseph and there is no historical proof that a man named Jesus lived during this time period. Virgin Mary is also reused throughout every single religion. Fall/Winter = Days get shorter, sun constantly sets earlier and earlier. Dec 21-23 = Sun sets at the same time every day (3 days of darkness), Dec 24 and on = sun begins setting later.

Jesus is crucified, 3 days of darkness, resurrection after 3 days. 3 days of darkness = 21-23 of Dec. Resurrection of sun and moving towards Spring Dec - Easter.

I go through periods as well when I am extremely angry with religion and those preaching it. Perhaps, this guy was so angry he wanted to do something about it? But in my opinion, religion is just fake and the people preaching it are speaking bullshit created from simple people in this world for some sort of purpose/governance.
Anonymous Coward
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11/11/2012 05:35 PM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Sounds like someone been watching a "Prophecy" marathon.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19374174


hi,

Prophecy is important, look where it is on the list.


1 Corinthians 12:28
And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors; after that miracles; then the graces of healing, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches.
ANHEDONIC

User ID: 26795689
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11/11/2012 05:43 PM

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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
What do you think this means...?

Who was he?
 Quoting: K.Kool


A Truther. wink

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
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11/11/2012 05:52 PM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
You and your fellow church goers got trolled, OP. The man's probably sitting at home laughing his ass off right now.I know I would be. Especially if I saw this thread afterwards.
Anonymous Coward
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11/11/2012 05:53 PM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Next, was the Nicene Creed:

We believe in God, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and all that is seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in fulfilment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and His kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.

Amen.

[link to www.catholic.org]
 Quoting: K.Kool


Was he having trouble understanding the trinity doctrine? ["A Mystery"] The WORSHIP of the council of Nicaea and of the wehr-machter Constantine who made all the decisions there, though not even having bothered to impersonate a Christian to that point? The ape-postasy from Christianity?
 Quoting: chauchat




I don't think all of the above can be surmised from his comment, maybe it is you who has trouble with it..

Thanks for that anyway, I learnt a lot.
Constantine was the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity, and the council he formed rejected Arianism

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: K.Kool


I can relate when you say you learned a lot by researching my negative comment. Things I read on glp that are contrary to my faith have become a major impetus to my researching and learning these days. And thank you for being civil in your reply, a nicety I had neglected , [AGAIN].

And it appears I was wrong about the Trinity doctrine emerging from Nicaea! I found this article so interesting that I can't figure out what to leave out,so, sorry for the length?1dunno1

Did the Early Church Teach That God Is a Trinity?

Part 4—When and How Did the Trinity Doctrine Develop?
The first three articles of this series showed that the Trinity doctrine was not taught by Jesus and his disciples nor by the early Church Fathers. (The Watchtower of November 1, 1991; February 1, 1992; and April 1, 1992) This final article will discuss how the Trinity dogma developed and what part was played by the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E.
IN THE year 325 C.E., Roman emperor Constantine convened a council of bishops in the city of Nicaea in Asia Minor. His purpose was to resolve the continuing religious disputes over the relationship of the Son of God to Almighty God. Regarding the results of that council, the Encyclopædia Britannica says:
“Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, ‘of one substance [ho·mo·ou′si·os] with the Father.’ . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.”1
Did this pagan ruler intervene because of his Biblical convictions? No. A Short History of Christian Doctrine states: “Constantine had basically no understanding whatsoever of the questions that were being asked in Greek theology.”2 What he did understand was that religious disputes threatened the unity of his empire, and he wanted them resolved.
Did It Establish the Trinity Doctrine?
Did the Council of Nicaea establish, or affirm, the Trinity as a doctrine of Christendom? Many assume that this was the case. But the facts show otherwise.
The creed promulgated by that council did assert things about the Son of God that would allow various clergymen to view him as equal to God the Father in a certain way. Yet, it is enlightening to see what the Nicene Creed did not say. As originally published, the entire creed stated:
“We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of all things visible and invisible;
“And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten from the Father, only-begotten, that is, from the substance of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, of one substance with the Father, through Whom all things came into being, things in heaven and things on earth, Who because of us men and because of our salvation came down and became incarnate, becoming man, suffered and rose again on the third day, ascended to the heavens, and will come to judge the living and the dead;
“And in the Holy Spirit.”3
Does this creed say that Father, Son, and holy spirit are three persons in one God? Does it say that the three are equal in eternity, power, position, and wisdom? No, it does not. There is no three-in-one formula here whatsoever. The original Nicene Creed did not establish or affirm the Trinity.
That creed, at most, equates the Son with the Father in being “of one substance.” But it does not say anything like that about the holy spirit. All it says is that “we believe . . . in the Holy Spirit.” That is not Christendom’s Trinity doctrine.
Even the key phrase “of one substance” (ho·mo·ou′si·os) did not necessarily mean that the council believed in a numerical equality of Father and Son. The New Catholic Encyclopedia states:
“Whether the Council intended to affirm the numerical identity of the substance of Father and Son is doubtful.”4
Had the council meant that the Son and the Father were one numerically, it would still not be a Trinity. It would only be a two-in-one God, not three-in-one as required by the Trinity doctrine.
“A Minority Viewpoint”
At Nicaea, did the bishops in general believe that the Son was equal to God? No, there were competing points of view. For example, one was represented by Arius, who taught that the Son had a finite beginning in time and was therefore not equal to God but was subordinate in all respects. Athanasius, on the other hand, believed that the Son was equal to God in a certain way. And there were other views.
Regarding the council’s decision to consider the Son of the same substance (consubstantial) as God, Martin Marty states: “Nicaea actually represented a minority viewpoint; the settlement was uneasy and was unacceptable to many who were not Arian in outlook.”5 Similarly, the book A Select Library of Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church notes that “a clearly formulated doctrinal position in contrast to Arianism was taken up by a minority only, although this minority carried the day.”6 And A Short History of Christian Doctrine notes:
“What seemed especially objectionable to many bishops and theologians of the East was the concept put into the creed by Constantine himself, the homoousios [“of one substance”], which in the subsequent strife between orthodoxy and heresy became the object of dissension.”7
After the council, disputing continued for decades. Those who were for the idea of equating the Son with Almighty God even fell out of favor for a time. For example, Martin Marty says of Athanasius: “His popularity rose and fell and he was exiled so often [in the years after the council] that he virtually became a commuter.”8 Athanasius spent years in exile because political and church officials opposed his views that equated the Son with God.
So to assert that the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E. established or affirmed the Trinity doctrine is not true. What later became the Trinity teaching was not in existence at the time. The idea that the Father, Son, and holy spirit were each true God and equal in eternity, power, position, and wisdom, yet but one God—a three-in-one God—was not developed by that council nor by earlier Church Fathers. As The Church of the First Three Centuries states:
“The modern popular doctrine of the Trinity . . . derives no support from the language of Justin [Martyr]: and this observation may be extended to all the ante-Nicene Fathers; that is, to all Christian writers for three centuries after the birth of Christ. It is true, they speak of the Father, Son, and prophetic or holy Spirit, but not as co-equal, not as one numerical essence, not as Three in One, in any sense now admitted by Trinitarians. The very reverse is the fact. The doctrine of the Trinity, as explained by these Fathers, was essentially different from the modern doctrine. This we state as a fact as susceptible of proof as any fact in the history of human opinions.”
“We challenge any one to produce a single writer of any note, during the first three ages, who held this [Trinity] doctrine in the modern sense.”9
Nicaea, though, did represent a turning point. It opened the door to the official acceptance of the Son as equal to the Father, and that paved the way for the later Trinity idea. The book Second Century Orthodoxy, by J. A. Buckley, notes:
“Up until the end of the second century at least, the universal Church remained united in one basic sense; they all accepted the supremacy of the Father. They all regarded God the Father Almighty as alone supreme, immutable, ineffable and without beginning. . . .
“With the passing of those second century writers and leaders, the Church found itself . . . slipping slowly but inexorably toward that point . . . where at the Council of Nicaea the culmination of all this piece-meal eroding of the original faith was reached. There, a small volatile minority, foisted its heresy upon an acquiescent majority, and with the political authorities behind it, coerced, cajoled and intimidated those who strove to maintain the pristine purity of their faith untarnished.”10
The Council of Constantinople
In 381 C.E., the Council of Constantinople affirmed the Nicene Creed. And it added something else. It called the holy spirit “Lord” and “life-giver.” The expanded creed of 381 C.E. (which is substantially what is used in the churches today and which is called “the Nicene Creed”) shows that Christendom was on the brink of formulating a full-blown Trinitarian dogma. Yet, not even this council completed that doctrine. The New Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges:
“It is interesting that 60 years after Nicaea I the Council of Constantinople I [381 C.E.] avoided homoousios in its definition of the divinity of the Holy Spirit.”11
“Scholars have been puzzled by the apparent mildness of expression on the part of this creed; its failure, for example, to use the word homoousios of the Holy Spirit as consubstantial with the Father and Son.”12
That same encyclopedia admits: “Homoousios does not appear in Scripture.”13 No, the Bible does not use that word either for the holy spirit or for the Son as being consubstantial with God. It was an unbiblical expression that helped lead to the unbiblical, indeed, antibiblical, doctrine of the Trinity.
Even after Constantinople, it was centuries before the Trinity teaching was accepted throughout Christendom. The New Catholic Encyclopedia says: “In the West . . . a general silence seems to have prevailed with regard to Constantinople I and its creed.”14 This source shows that the council’s creed was not widely recognized in the West until the seventh or eighth century.
Scholars also acknowledge that the Athanasian Creed, often quoted as a standard definition and support of the Trinity, was not written by Athanasius but by an unknown author much later. The New Encyclopædia Britannica comments:
“The creed was unknown to the Eastern Church until the 12th century. Since the 17th century, scholars have generally agreed that the Athanasian Creed was not written by Athanasius (died 373) but was probably composed in southern France during the 5th century. . . . The creed’s influence seems to have been primarily in southern France and Spain in the 6th and 7th centuries. It was used in the liturgy of the church in Germany in the 9th century and somewhat later in Rome.”15
How It Developed
The Trinity doctrine began its slow development over a period of centuries. The trinitarian ideas of Greek philosophers such as Plato, who lived several centuries before Christ, gradually crept into church teachings. As The Church of the First Three Centuries says:
“We maintain that the doctrine of the Trinity was of gradual and comparatively late formation; that it had its origin in a source entirely foreign from that of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures; that it grew up, and was ingrafted on Christianity, through the hands of the Platonizing Fathers; that in the time of Justin, and long after, the distinct nature and inferiority of the Son were universally taught; and that only the first shadowy outline of the Trinity had then become visible.”16
Before Plato, triads, or trinities, were common in Babylon and Egypt. And the efforts of churchmen to attract unbelievers in the Roman world led to the gradual incorporation of some of those ideas into Christianity. This eventually led to acceptance of the belief that the Son and the holy spirit were equal to the Father.
Even the word “Trinity” was only slowly accepted. It was in the latter half of the second century that Theophilus, bishop of Antioch in Syria, wrote in Greek and introduced the word tri·as′, meaning “triad,” or “trinity.” Then the Latin writer Tertullian in Carthage, North Africa, introduced into his writings the word trinitas, which means “trinity.” But the word tri·as′ is not found in the inspired Christian Greek Scriptures, and the word trinitas is not found in the Latin translation of the Bible called the Vulgate. Neither expression was Biblical. But the word “Trinity,” based on pagan concepts, crept into the literature of the churches and after the fourth century became part of their dogma.
Thus, it was not that scholars examined the Bible thoroughly to see if such a doctrine was taught in it. Instead, secular and church politics largely determined the doctrine. In the book The Christian Tradition, author Jaroslav Pelikan calls attention to “the nontheological factors in the debate, many of which seemed ready again and again to determine its outcome, only to be countermanded by other forces like unto themselves. Doctrine often seemed to be the victim—or the product—of church politics and of conflicts of personality.”17 Yale professor E. Washburn Hopkins put it this way: “The final orthodox definition of the trinity was largely a matter of church politics.”18
How unreasonable the Trinity doctrine is compared with the simple Bible teaching that God is supreme and has no equal! As God says, “to whom will you people liken me or make me equal or compare me that we may resemble each other?”—Isaiah 46:5.
What It Represented
What did the gradual development of the Trinity idea represent? It was part of the falling away from true Christianity that Jesus foretold. (Matthew 13:24-43) The apostle Paul also had foretold the coming apostasy:
“The time is sure to come when, far from being content with sound teaching, people will be avid for the latest novelty and collect themselves a whole series of teachers according to their own tastes; and then, instead of listening to the truth, they will turn to myths.”—2 Timothy 4:3, 4, Catholic Jerusalem Bible.
One of those myths was the Trinity teaching. Some other myths alien to Christianity that also gradually developed were: the inherent immortality of the human soul, purgatory, Limbo, and eternal torment in hellfire.
So, what is the Trinity doctrine? It is actually a pagan doctrine masquerading as a Christian one. It was promoted by Satan to deceive people, to make God confusing and mysterious to them. This results in their also being more willing to accept other false religious ideas and wrong practices.
“By Their Fruits”
At Matthew 7:15-19, Jesus said that you could tell false religion from true religion in this way:
“Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit . . . Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire.”
Consider one example. Jesus said at John 13:35: “By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” Also, at 1 John 4:20 and 21, God’s inspired Word declares:
“If anyone makes the statement: ‘I love God,’ and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him, that the one who loves God should be loving his brother also.”
Apply the basic principle that true Christians must have love among themselves to what happened in both world wars of this century, as well as in other conflicts. People of the same religions of Christendom met on battlefields and slaughtered one another because of nationalistic differences. Each side claimed to be Christian, and each side was supported by its clergy, who claimed that God was on their side. That slaughter of “Christian” by “Christian” is rotten fruitage. It is a violating of Christian love, a denial of the laws of God.—See also 1 John 3:10-12.
A Day of Reckoning
Thus, the falling away from Christianity led not only to ungodly beliefs, such as the Trinity doctrine, but also to ungodly practices. Yet, there is a day of reckoning to come, for Jesus said: “Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire.” That is why God’s Word urges:
“Get out of her [false religion], my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind.”—Revelation 18:4, 5.
Soon God will ‘put it into the hearts’ of the political authorities to turn against false religion. They will “make her devastated and . . . will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.” (Revelation 17:16, 17) Destroyed forever will be false religion with its pagan philosophies about God. In effect, God will say to the practicers of false religion as Jesus said in his day: “Your house is abandoned to you.”—Matthew 23:38.
True religion will survive God’s judgments, so that, finally, all honor and glory will be given to the One whom Jesus said is “the only true God.” He is the One identified by the psalmist who declared: “You, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.”—John 17:3; Psalm 83:18.

I got logged out while 'composing' this.
K.Kool (OP)

User ID: 24202662
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11/11/2012 05:58 PM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
I don't mean to infringe on your beliefs... But.

When I am near a church or listening to someone preach. I think the same exact thing, though I do not say it out-loud. I don't know why he would go to your church to preach, everyone knows that religious people are stuck in their beliefs and not going to conform to anything else.

But the reason I would be doing it because I honestly believe religion is just a brainwash. There is no Jesus and no God. There may be things like this...but Jesus is simply a symbol that has been passed down for millions of years stemming from other religions since we people were born.

Based entirely upon Astronomy, seasons and change in our world. Jesus is merely a false idol that was once prototyped as Joseph and there is no historical proof that a man named Jesus lived during this time period. Virgin Mary is also reused throughout every single religion. Fall/Winter = Days get shorter, sun constantly sets earlier and earlier. Dec 21-23 = Sun sets at the same time every day (3 days of darkness), Dec 24 and on = sun begins setting later.

Jesus is crucified, 3 days of darkness, resurrection after 3 days. 3 days of darkness = 21-23 of Dec. Resurrection of sun and moving towards Spring Dec - Easter.

I go through periods as well when I am extremely angry with religion and those preaching it. Perhaps, this guy was so angry he wanted to do something about it? But in my opinion, religion is just fake and the people preaching it are speaking bullshit created from simple people in this world for some sort of purpose/governance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26303374




Don't worry, you're not infringing, Catholics are open to discussion and debate, contrary to popular belief about them.

I know what you're saying, intimately, because I've believed as you do, too.
I guess after years of following no belief, it 'intruded' itself into my psyche again.
It was kinda like an experiment at first, I was so proudly open-minded, I decided to adopt the belief, hold it close and believe it, to see what would happen.
I can only say, some 5 years later, that so far I have no good reason to abandon it, everything has changed :)
I simply said, to God, that I gave Him my life, to do with it, as He wished, its a radical act, but sounds so easy... how many can actually say those words, in all honesty?
Anonymous Coward
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11/11/2012 06:07 PM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
K.Kool (OP)

User ID: 24202662
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11/11/2012 06:07 PM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
What do you think this means...?

Who was he?
 Quoting: K.Kool


A Truther. wink
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC



If so, he's got it wrong ;)
K.Kool (OP)

User ID: 24202662
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11/11/2012 06:09 PM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
You and your fellow church goers got trolled, OP. The man's probably sitting at home laughing his ass off right now.I know I would be. Especially if I saw this thread afterwards.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11758031




Yeah, in the back of my mind, I was hoping he was from GLP, and would see the thread, adds an extra juicy bit to the mystery :)
Anonymous Coward
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11/11/2012 06:18 PM
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Re: A Strange thing happened in Church today
Roman Catholicism is not so much monkey business as a demonic cult. Do some research into the Inquisition and find out the real targets (hint: it wasn't witches or homosexuals). The Inquisition still exists (under a different name) and was headed for 20 years by the man who now is called the "Pope". Read the Bible -- the Old Testament -- about how God told his people to SMASH DOWN the obelisks in Egypt as they conquered each city, but see how the popes have resurrected these abominations as pilgrim markers in Rome.

RCs are told to pray to angels and dead people (what they call saints). The New Testament tells us NOT to pray to angels or dead people, only to God.

I could go on and on, but the choice is yours. If you love God and truth more than you love Roman Catholicism, the least you can do is pick up God's book (the Bible, not the Catholic Bible) and read it from cover to cover. Compare what God's people are told NOT to do with what Catholicism tells adherents to do.


"Come out of her, my people!" Find out what that quote refers to in the Bible, and please take it to heart.


I love God and truth, but for many years I loved Catholicism more. Then one day God gave me a choice and showed me what it was that I "loved" when I loved Catholicism. I left that demon cult the same day and have never been back since.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24279842


I accepted your challenge. I went to bible.com and searched for "Come out of her, my people!"

Nada.

So - could you please tell me what you think the quote refers to in the Bible?

Thank you.

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