SCOTUS case Texas V. White or why states can't secede | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 27638328 United States 11/12/2012 10:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20901334 United States 11/12/2012 10:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to en.wikipedia.org] Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27563645 Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869) was a significant case argued before the United States Supreme Court in 1869.[1] The case involved a claim by the Reconstruction government of Texas that United States bonds owned by Texas since 1850 had been illegally sold by the Confederate state legislature during the American Civil War. The state filed suit directly with the United States Supreme Court, which, under the United States Constitution, retains original jurisdiction on cases in which a state is a party. In accepting original jurisdiction, the court ruled that Texas had remained a state ever since it first joined the Union, despite its joining the Confederate States of America and its being under military rule at the time of the decision in the case. In deciding the merits of the bond issue, the court further held that the Constitution did not permit states to unilaterally secede from the United States, and that the ordinances of secession, and all the acts of the legislatures within seceding states intended to give effect to such ordinances, were "absolutely null". IMO they still got the right to secede... but they gonna have to fight for it... In the nuclear age, they could secede and tell Washington DC to not move or Washington DC will be turned to glass. Well, what the hell do you expect the SCOTUS to rule? The War of Federal Aggression was over and the FEDERAL government won. After the Federal Government slaughters, rapes, burns, starves, tortures and destroys hundreds of thousands, you really think any Supreme court Judge was going to rule against them? To do so would have meant summery execution. The War criminals won, to think the SCOTUS then or today would actually stand up for the Constitution or States rights is laughable. |
Shelgeyr User ID: 6321116 United States 11/13/2012 02:17 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "Texas v. White" won't matter two hoots. As I've mentioned elsewhere, that was a victor's ruling and had it been handed down during the actual war (an impossible situation, and not germane to the details of the case, but this requires a stretch...) it would have held no weight. TEXAS certainly considered themselves to have left the Union. This post-Civil War rewriting of history to achieve a political and monetary gain really has no bearing on our present reality. The argument that "Texas can't secede because the Supreme Court in 1869 said they couldn't (nor could any other state)" would devolve to that of 12 dead men vs. an active and angry state. It is a pointless argument. It is like arguing with the weather. Besides, a very valid argument can be made that "Texas v. White" is contrary to both the spirit and the letter of the text of the Declaration of Independence. If Obama (or anyone, really) holds up and waves a copy of "Texas v. White", and Texas holds up and waves back with the Declaration of Independence, which do you think is the more important, more powerful document? The innate rights of a self-governing people say "Texas v. White", as a practicality, is hogwash. Also, if you want to get prickly about it, "Texas v. White" was about a claim made by the post-war, Federally-imposed Reconstruction government of Texas regarding some US bonds owned by Texas, therefore their additional holding - based merely upon accepting original jurisdiction - that the Constitution did not permit states to unilaterally secede could easily be revisited as having been an abuse of due process committed by an activist court, and had really nothing to do with the merits of the case. In other words, having just won a bloody and brutal war, and wanting to prevent a relapse, it looks like the court took an unrelated but available opportunity to unilaterally impose their will, and in effect legislate from the bench. I certainly don't blame them for having that mindset, and I'm quite glad the Union won the civil war. But bad case law is bad case law, and even if it was ROCK SOLID it would not matter in the least if secession efforts get strongly underway. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 9266723 United States 11/13/2012 02:19 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "Texas v. White" won't matter two hoots. Quoting: Shelgeyr As I've mentioned elsewhere, that was a victor's ruling and had it been handed down during the actual war (an impossible situation, and not germane to the details of the case, but this requires a stretch...) it would have held no weight. TEXAS certainly considered themselves to have left the Union. This post-Civil War rewriting of history to achieve a political and monetary gain really has no bearing on our present reality. The argument that "Texas can't secede because the Supreme Court in 1869 said they couldn't (nor could any other state)" would devolve to that of 12 dead men vs. an active and angry state. It is a pointless argument. It is like arguing with the weather. Besides, a very valid argument can be made that "Texas v. White" is contrary to both the spirit and the letter of the text of the Declaration of Independence. If Obama (or anyone, really) holds up and waves a copy of "Texas v. White", and Texas holds up and waves back with the Declaration of Independence, which do you think is the more important, more powerful document? The innate rights of a self-governing people say "Texas v. White", as a practicality, is hogwash. Also, if you want to get prickly about it, "Texas v. White" was about a claim made by the post-war, Federally-imposed Reconstruction government of Texas regarding some US bonds owned by Texas, therefore their additional holding - based merely upon accepting original jurisdiction - that the Constitution did not permit states to unilaterally secede could easily be revisited as having been an abuse of due process committed by an activist court, and had really nothing to do with the merits of the case. In other words, having just won a bloody and brutal war, and wanting to prevent a relapse, it looks like the court took an unrelated but available opportunity to unilaterally impose their will, and in effect legislate from the bench. I certainly don't blame them for having that mindset, and I'm quite glad the Union won the civil war. But bad case law is bad case law, and even if it was ROCK SOLID it would not matter in the least if secession efforts get strongly underway. I think people have pointed to Texas vs White when it comes to debunking people who claim (Incorrectly) that Texas has some special clause that lets it leave the union leagaly. Obviously if all the people in Texas are dead set on leaving the union, no law is going to stop them. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 27636366 United States 11/13/2012 02:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1342948 United States 11/13/2012 02:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | “Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government...” (Thomas Jefferson) Well, considering the Supreme Court, we are already 2 out of 3 conscerning Life, Liberty, and the pursuite of happiness. (1). The Supreme Court decided in 1973 that a new life in it's Mother's stomach can be killed. (2). The Supreme Court recently sold out and said Obama Care is legal, which will affect everyone's liberty for years to come. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1474948 United States 11/13/2012 06:16 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Texas was an independent country from 1836 to 1845. They were the only state who joined the union through a treaty instead of annexation. Nowhere in the Texas constitution does it say that Texas can't change it's mind and break the treaty. There is one clause in the Texas constitution that states "Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States". NOT to the President of the US or even the Congress of the US. And since the US Constitution doesn't really say anything about states seceding, I don't even know why they would have to petition the US government to allow them to do so. |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 27656107 United States 11/13/2012 06:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | do you think Washington asked the Queen if America could be independent ?? hell no, he sent her armies a hail of bullets to let her know. no paper was necessary unless you count the paper wadding holding the lead balls |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 27656107 United States 11/13/2012 07:00 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | there seems to be a lot of desperation for texas and others NOT to secede Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27468783 its the same shit people spin to try dissuade britain from dumping the eu The You Know Who's are afraid all their debt slaves are going to run away. who the fvck needs 4 yachts, 6 jets, 12 castles and $2 Trillion in gold in their vault ?? I think they have stolen enough from us already don't you think ?? |
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Lady Jane Smith Forum Administrator User ID: 1281785 Sweden 11/13/2012 07:09 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "Texas v. White" won't matter two hoots. Quoting: Shelgeyr As I've mentioned elsewhere, that was a victor's ruling and had it been handed down during the actual war (an impossible situation, and not germane to the details of the case, but this requires a stretch...) it would have held no weight. TEXAS certainly considered themselves to have left the Union. This post-Civil War rewriting of history to achieve a political and monetary gain really has no bearing on our present reality. The argument that "Texas can't secede because the Supreme Court in 1869 said they couldn't (nor could any other state)" would devolve to that of 12 dead men vs. an active and angry state. It is a pointless argument. It is like arguing with the weather. Besides, a very valid argument can be made that "Texas v. White" is contrary to both the spirit and the letter of the text of the Declaration of Independence. If Obama (or anyone, really) holds up and waves a copy of "Texas v. White", and Texas holds up and waves back with the Declaration of Independence, which do you think is the more important, more powerful document? The innate rights of a self-governing people say "Texas v. White", as a practicality, is hogwash. Also, if you want to get prickly about it, "Texas v. White" was about a claim made by the post-war, Federally-imposed Reconstruction government of Texas regarding some US bonds owned by Texas, therefore their additional holding - based merely upon accepting original jurisdiction - that the Constitution did not permit states to unilaterally secede could easily be revisited as having been an abuse of due process committed by an activist court, and had really nothing to do with the merits of the case. In other words, having just won a bloody and brutal war, and wanting to prevent a relapse, it looks like the court took an unrelated but available opportunity to unilaterally impose their will, and in effect legislate from the bench. I certainly don't blame them for having that mindset, and I'm quite glad the Union won the civil war. But bad case law is bad case law, and even if it was ROCK SOLID it would not matter in the least if secession efforts get strongly underway. I think people have pointed to Texas vs White when it comes to debunking people who claim (Incorrectly) that Texas has some special clause that lets it leave the union leagaly. Obviously if all the people in Texas are dead set on leaving the union, no law is going to stop them. ^^That^^ .. and many other states will domino in behind them One observation I do have is this: States wanting to secede are doing so because they wish to live by the US Constitution. With that said, why do they have to secede? Why not boot out the blue states that want their socialist system? It could be argued that the blue states have already seceded & are trying to force their agenda down the throats of the rest of the country. Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" the warrior whispers back "I am the storm" INTJ-A |
Lady Jane Smith Forum Administrator User ID: 1334610 Netherlands 11/13/2012 07:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | there seems to be a lot of desperation for texas and others NOT to secede Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27468783 its the same shit people spin to try dissuade britain from dumping the eu ... because if the red states secede, where will they get the taxes to support all the entitled crybabies in the blue state urban centers? Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" the warrior whispers back "I am the storm" INTJ-A |
IJumpInIt User ID: 24238594 United States 11/13/2012 07:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Any State would need to vote on whether to leave the union, and if so then create their OWN version of a 'Decleration of Independence' from the USA. From that point on the 'United States' would have zero claim on anything within that former State. Period. |
Lady Jane Smith Forum Administrator User ID: 1334610 Netherlands 11/13/2012 07:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | there seems to be a lot of desperation for texas and others NOT to secede Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27468783 its the same shit people spin to try dissuade britain from dumping the eu The You Know Who's are afraid all their debt slaves are going to run away. who the fvck needs 4 yachts, 6 jets, 12 castles and $2 Trillion in gold in their vault ?? I think they have stolen enough from us already don't you think ?? Somebody stole your jet? Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" the warrior whispers back "I am the storm" INTJ-A |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 19131216 Canada 11/13/2012 07:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to en.wikipedia.org] Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27563645 Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869) was a significant case argued before the United States Supreme Court in 1869.[1] The case involved a claim by the Reconstruction government of Texas that United States bonds owned by Texas since 1850 had been illegally sold by the Confederate state legislature during the American Civil War. The state filed suit directly with the United States Supreme Court, which, under the United States Constitution, retains original jurisdiction on cases in which a state is a party. In accepting original jurisdiction, the court ruled that Texas had remained a state ever since it first joined the Union, despite its joining the Confederate States of America and its being under military rule at the time of the decision in the case. In deciding the merits of the bond issue, the court further held that the Constitution did not permit states to unilaterally secede from the United States, and that the ordinances of secession, and all the acts of the legislatures within seceding states intended to give effect to such ordinances, were "absolutely null". IMO they still got the right to secede... but they gonna have to fight for it... In the nuclear age, they could secede and tell Washington DC to not move or Washington DC will be turned to glass. If you doodles have been following any with this administration, the constitution no longer exists. It's null and void. Maybe the peeps can write their own executive order and make the changes that way..;) |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 27620715 United States 11/13/2012 07:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | there seems to be a lot of desperation for texas and others NOT to secede Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27468783 its the same shit people spin to try dissuade britain from dumping the eu ... because if the red states secede, where will they get the taxes to support all the entitled crybabies in the blue state urban centers? New Joisy actually give the federal scumbags TWICE as much as we get back from them, actually. South Jersey petition joins state efforts to secede from the Union [link to www.newjerseynewsroom.com] |
IJumpInIt User ID: 24238594 United States 11/13/2012 07:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Any State would need to vote on whether to leave the union, and if so then create their OWN version of a 'Decleration of Independence' from the USA. Quoting: IJumpInIt 24238594 From that point on the 'United States' would have zero claim on anything within that former State. Period. States have their OWN 'Constitution' as well. Can't forget it is up to the people of the given State. nObama and his henchmen fear THE PEOPLE as do all 'Governments'. This is what nObama wants - to rip apart the 'U.S.A.'. It is time to just do it already. These petitions are just the beginning. |
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Lady Jane Smith Forum Administrator User ID: 1113480 Germany 11/13/2012 07:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | there seems to be a lot of desperation for texas and others NOT to secede Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27468783 its the same shit people spin to try dissuade britain from dumping the eu ... because if the red states secede, where will they get the taxes to support all the entitled crybabies in the blue state urban centers? New Joisy actually give the federal scumbags TWICE as much as we get back from them, actually. South Jersey petition joins state efforts to secede from the Union [link to www.newjerseynewsroom.com] New Jersey has been hijacked by the liberal spillover from NYC. Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" the warrior whispers back "I am the storm" INTJ-A |
Lady Jane Smith Forum Administrator User ID: 1113480 Germany 11/13/2012 07:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 27531391 United States 11/13/2012 07:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | All I know is that all this talk of secession is invigorating!! DAMN GOOD! This country NEEDS to break down into smaller nation-states. Let the liberal lefties have their paradises in New York and California and elsewhere. The rest of us choose not to participate, thank you. We choose not to fund your bottomless pit of welfare dependency that grows deeper each year. |
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