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"NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19514200
United States
11/12/2012 06:39 AM
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"NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
The Greece emergency domino effect could be just around the corner...

Proposed Scenario:

According to rumors from the "pit", computer analogs are now trading the vast majority of the action we see. In the event of a "meltdown", the computer action would get shut off and you may very well have a case of "no bid" on any tradeable entity including most "funds" of folks savings entities.

What this means is that since banks are SO LEVERAGED RIGHT NOW (they are way past bankrupt), the value you see on your account is actually FICTITIOUS and could be wiped to "0" in an instant. This can happen when there is "no live body" in the trading pit to give a bid to buy your funds and this means "no bid" which drops that stock to "0" value, which is much closer to the true value anyway.

This kind of thing happending en masse is a very real possibility and would give financial institutions a "way out" of and "unsecured" funds, in other words they would love to NOT HAVE TO PAY on these funds and do it legally. This is how you can be legally dropped to zero overnight.

You thought getting whacked HALF in 2008/2009 was bad?... The only modest protection you have is "cash in hand" and anything you could guarantee as a "secure entity" (not many of these exist now). The buying power of cash would also be greatly diminished in such an emergency, but something is better than nothing.

!!!

Comments?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 16764653
United States
11/12/2012 06:49 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
Bring it on. Anyone paying attention should be well prepared by now.
eddy

User ID: 21052064
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11/12/2012 06:52 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
Do you have a source on the "Rumors from the pit"?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 19514200
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11/12/2012 06:54 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
Do you have a source on the "Rumors from the pit"?
 Quoting: eddy


Yes, I will find it now.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/12/2012 07:03 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
The video was pinned yesterday, someone help me find it. It's the one of the gal in a tie and she is talking about Goldman Scahs being leveraged 545 to 1.

Help me find it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1405546
United States
11/12/2012 07:06 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
Passing debt along to the little guy.........it will not stop until

A) The People stop it by force

B) Civilization crumbles from economical implosion.
Paddy

User ID: 5574044
United States
11/12/2012 07:08 AM

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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
The video was pinned yesterday, someone help me find it. It's the one of the gal in a tie and she is talking about Goldman Scahs being leveraged 545 to 1.

Help me find it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19514200


Her name is Ann Barnhardt.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 19514200
United States
11/12/2012 07:09 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
I will find the video, or someone else will post it if they find it; it was pinned last night.

There should be some others here who are familiar with trading that know about this problem.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 19514200
United States
11/12/2012 07:11 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
The video was pinned yesterday, someone help me find it. It's the one of the gal in a tie and she is talking about Goldman Scahs being leveraged 545 to 1.

Help me find it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19514200


Her name is Ann Barnhardt.
 Quoting: Paddy


[link to www.youtube.com]

Thanks. Here is her collection. I will try to point to the specific one where she warns about "no bid".
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 19514200
United States
11/12/2012 07:13 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
Warning, she tends to get worked up a bit and scary at times, but her financial data is sound.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27571488
Canada
11/12/2012 07:16 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
The Greece emergency domino effect could be just around the corner...

Proposed Scenario:

According to rumors from the "pit", computer analogs are now trading the vast majority of the action we see. In the event of a "meltdown", the computer action would get shut off and you may very well have a case of "no bid" on any tradeable entity including most "funds" of folks savings entities.

What this means is that since banks are SO LEVERAGED RIGHT NOW (they are way past bankrupt), the value you see on your account is actually FICTITIOUS and could be wiped to "0" in an instant. This can happen when there is "no live body" in the trading pit to give a bid to buy your funds and this means "no bid" which drops that stock to "0" value, which is much closer to the true value anyway.

This kind of thing happending en masse is a very real possibility and would give financial institutions a "way out" of and "unsecured" funds, in other words they would love to NOT HAVE TO PAY on these funds and do it legally. This is how you can be legally dropped to zero overnight.

You thought getting whacked HALF in 2008/2009 was bad?... The only modest protection you have is "cash in hand" and anything you could guarantee as a "secure entity" (not many of these exist now). The buying power of cash would also be greatly diminished in such an emergency, but something is better than nothing.

!!!

Comments?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19514200


Well it happened in 2011...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 19514200
United States
11/12/2012 07:18 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
[link to www.youtube.com]

Here's the video, I will find the time.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 19514200
United States
11/12/2012 07:22 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
[link to www.youtube.com]

Here's the video, I will find the time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19514200


At 8:00 she starts talking about computers bidding and how it will cause "no bid" when they stop.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 19514200
United States
11/12/2012 07:23 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
At 10:00 = NO BID stuff
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 19514200
United States
11/12/2012 07:24 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
10:51 "THERE IS NO BID!"
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 19514200
United States
11/12/2012 07:25 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
The Greece emergency domino effect could be just around the corner...

Proposed Scenario:

According to rumors from the "pit", computer analogs are now trading the vast majority of the action we see. In the event of a "meltdown", the computer action would get shut off and you may very well have a case of "no bid" on any tradeable entity including most "funds" of folks savings entities.

What this means is that since banks are SO LEVERAGED RIGHT NOW (they are way past bankrupt), the value you see on your account is actually FICTITIOUS and could be wiped to "0" in an instant. This can happen when there is "no live body" in the trading pit to give a bid to buy your funds and this means "no bid" which drops that stock to "0" value, which is much closer to the true value anyway.

This kind of thing happending en masse is a very real possibility and would give financial institutions a "way out" of and "unsecured" funds, in other words they would love to NOT HAVE TO PAY on these funds and do it legally. This is how you can be legally dropped to zero overnight.

You thought getting whacked HALF in 2008/2009 was bad?... The only modest protection you have is "cash in hand" and anything you could guarantee as a "secure entity" (not many of these exist now). The buying power of cash would also be greatly diminished in such an emergency, but something is better than nothing.

!!!

Comments?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19514200


Well it happened in 2011...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27571488


Thanks, yes FLASH CRASH! That is the warning!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 19514200
United States
11/12/2012 07:28 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
Now think about how "flash crash" occurring for the whole day....that "0"'s out much of what you thought you had.

IN ONE DAY, it goes away! (In ONE MINUTE!)
Devoted Follower
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United States
11/12/2012 07:34 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
Interesting...

hiding
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26120291
United States
11/12/2012 07:45 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
One solution, well two actually. Gold/silver
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 19514200
United States
11/12/2012 07:46 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
One solution, well two actually. Gold/silver
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26120291


Yes, and cash on hand (could be almost worthless but businesses would still be required to take it)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 19514200
United States
11/12/2012 07:49 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
In 2006, in order to keep the "fantasy land stock market" going, they introduced "computer algorithms" to replace the traders that were disappearing.

Almost all of the volume you see now is FAKE. Computers are creating the fantasy world so that you won't be scared.

Computers are CREATING FAKE DEMAND for the system that no longer functions.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
11/12/2012 07:51 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
This means WE ARE ON EXTREMELY PRECARIOUS FOOTING that we thought was solid.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 19514200
United States
11/12/2012 07:53 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
The Greece emergency domino effect could be just around the corner...

Proposed Scenario:

According to rumors from the "pit", computer analogs are now trading the vast majority of the action we see. In the event of a "meltdown", the computer action would get shut off and you may very well have a case of "no bid" on any tradeable entity including most "funds" of folks savings entities.

What this means is that since banks are SO LEVERAGED RIGHT NOW (they are way past bankrupt), the value you see on your account is actually FICTITIOUS and could be wiped to "0" in an instant. This can happen when there is "no live body" in the trading pit to give a bid to buy your funds and this means "no bid" which drops that stock to "0" value, which is much closer to the true value anyway.

This kind of thing happending en masse is a very real possibility and would give financial institutions a "way out" of and "unsecured" funds, in other words they would love to NOT HAVE TO PAY on these funds and do it legally. This is how you can be legally dropped to zero overnight.

You thought getting whacked HALF in 2008/2009 was bad?... The only modest protection you have is "cash in hand" and anything you could guarantee as a "secure entity" (not many of these exist now). The buying power of cash would also be greatly diminished in such an emergency, but something is better than nothing.

!!!

Comments?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19514200


typo, computer algorithms, not analogs.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 23992770
United Kingdom
11/12/2012 07:59 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
OP is right about this being the most serious threat to the whole system. People have been writing about it for a few years now.

Its just like the supply chain system with supermarkets etc. The same principles really - in the name of efficiency all redundancies have been eliminated. This is super dooper when everything works 'as it should' but one tiny little spanner in the works and everything falls apart.

With high velocity trading, ie. the computer driven trading that does millions of trades in a millisecond, the speed and severity of such crisis are magnified greatly.

All it will take is something to spook the system. The collapse will happen so quickly that Bloomberg presenters will already be spewing out meaningless garbage about the past when the breaking news flashes up.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
11/12/2012 07:59 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
i just got a letter from my bank telling me i could purchase foreign money.

Why should they want me to purchase foreign money?

Wats up?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 23992770
United Kingdom
11/12/2012 08:04 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
One solution, well two actually. Gold/silver
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26120291


Don't put too much faith in this. Whilst gold and silver have had a certain stability to them in the past because they are a physical and scarce 'real thing', they won't save any of us from the future. The system is so out of whack, and the issues driving it all are so vast and detached from any conceivably sustainable system that it will still fall apart.

You see what most people are not factoring in is that there are hundreds of millions of disenfranchised younger people (by younger I mean forty and younger) right across the western world who really couldn't give a crap about the security of Boomer's investments. When the reality of their future finally dawns on them those people will rip this society limb-from-limb in a violent convulsion of rage and despair. It won't matter if you have gold assets or silver because the entire fabric of the system, and its infrastructure is going to be destroyed.

The only questions really left are when will the spark come that ignites the inferno, what alternative ideologies will present themselves and vie for power, and how long will the chaos last?
Anonymous Coward
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United States
11/12/2012 08:14 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
Turn on CNBC any particular morning these days and they're talking about algo trading.

The retail investor is largely out of the market now, which is why you can't count on the stock market as a metric of economic health. There isn't an answer to a problem to be found here.

We have one trader at work that deals with all our hedging and positioning, and while he is physically (I.e. clicking a button) trading positions for
Us and there's someone on the other end taking the risk from us, the likely scenario is a computer takes the position and trades for us in the end.
Marxist

User ID: 1306286
New Zealand
11/12/2012 08:14 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
Passing debt along to the little guy.........it will not stop until

A) The People stop it by force

B) Civilization crumbles from economical implosion.
 Quoting: --Voltaic--


Capitalism revolves around debt. All the manufacturing and services and other forms of value adding require vast amounts of debt to cater for the sheer volume of exchange. Without debt, capitalism would grind to a halt and growth would end. Banks simply facilitate this process and the markets are their venue of value amplification, similar to a shopkeepers retail premium on wholesale. The fact that it is all appearing shaky has less to do with it being the actions of bad people but rather the fact that the sheer momentum of these activities are reaching such a pitch that they threaten to overwhelm the system.

But to suggest that debt can somehow be made more acceptable is to vastly misunderstand the nature of the system we live within.

I personally see no point in getting into a froth about things. The system will eventually exhaust itself...not whilst countries such as India and China are entering the system however and not in our lifetimes.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Serendipity
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11/12/2012 08:17 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
One solution, well two actually. Gold/silver
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26120291


Don't put too much faith in this. Whilst gold and silver have had a certain stability to them in the past because they are a physical and scarce 'real thing', they won't save any of us from the future. The system is so out of whack, and the issues driving it all are so vast and detached from any conceivably sustainable system that it will still fall apart.

You see what most people are not factoring in is that there are hundreds of millions of disenfranchised younger people (by younger I mean forty and younger) right across the western world who really couldn't give a crap about the security of Boomer's investments. When the reality of their future finally dawns on them those people will rip this society limb-from-limb in a violent convulsion of rage and despair. It won't matter if you have gold assets or silver because the entire fabric of the system, and its infrastructure is going to be destroyed.

The only questions really left are when will the spark come that ignites the inferno, what alternative ideologies will present themselves and vie for power, and how long will the chaos last?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23992770


Wow, where did you come from? And do you hang out here very often?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
11/12/2012 08:18 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
With the leveraging right now THERE IS NOT ENOUGH LABOR IN THE ENTIRE WORLD to account for even a fraction of the USD in circulation as electrons....this is DANGEROUS!
Marxist

User ID: 1306286
New Zealand
11/12/2012 08:24 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
With the leveraging right now THERE IS NOT ENOUGH LABOR IN THE ENTIRE WORLD to account for even a fraction of the USD in circulation as electrons....this is DANGEROUS!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19514200


Good point! So in other words, there is insufficient surplus value to soak up the brought forward losses being generated by leveraging. Of course, automation and wage reduction is what will take the hit....to an extent. Where the risk lies is in global inventory eventually taking a deflationary nosedive as businesses compete into extinction in a bid to survive in this environment. However, I take your point that the extent of the leverage is the start of a decline in the systems capacity.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!

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