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"NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!

 
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 08:29 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
One solution, well two actually. Gold/silver
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26120291


Don't put too much faith in this. Whilst gold and silver have had a certain stability to them in the past because they are a physical and scarce 'real thing', they won't save any of us from the future. The system is so out of whack, and the issues driving it all are so vast and detached from any conceivably sustainable system that it will still fall apart.

You see what most people are not factoring in is that there are hundreds of millions of disenfranchised younger people (by younger I mean forty and younger) right across the western world who really couldn't give a crap about the security of Boomer's investments. When the reality of their future finally dawns on them those people will rip this society limb-from-limb in a violent convulsion of rage and despair. It won't matter if you have gold assets or silver because the entire fabric of the system, and its infrastructure is going to be destroyed.

The only questions really left are when will the spark come that ignites the inferno, what alternative ideologies will present themselves and vie for power, and how long will the chaos last?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23992770


Wow, where did you come from? And do you hang out here very often?
 Quoting: Serendipity 25458009


I do tend to spend a little time each day lurking around GLP. Its kind of like an addiction that I can't kick (I don't join because Trinity keeps banning my IP). Its fascinating to read the rantings of so many people who are totally deluded, clinging the old 'certainties' yet ignoring the growing tide of anger and disillusionment that is permeating through all western societies.
eddy

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11/12/2012 08:53 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
Hey OP. THANKS, for working so hard for link. 5 stars
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 08:59 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
bsflag doomer fantasy that will never happen
grefey

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11/12/2012 09:01 AM

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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
One solution, well two actually. Gold/silver
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26120291


Don't put too much faith in this. Whilst gold and silver have had a certain stability to them in the past because they are a physical and scarce 'real thing', they won't save any of us from the future. The system is so out of whack, and the issues driving it all are so vast and detached from any conceivably sustainable system that it will still fall apart.

You see what most people are not factoring in is that there are hundreds of millions of disenfranchised younger people (by younger I mean forty and younger) right across the western world who really couldn't give a crap about the security of Boomer's investments. When the reality of their future finally dawns on them those people will rip this society limb-from-limb in a violent convulsion of rage and despair. It won't matter if you have gold assets or silver because the entire fabric of the system, and its infrastructure is going to be destroyed.

The only questions really left are when will the spark come that ignites the inferno, what alternative ideologies will present themselves and vie for power, and how long will the chaos last?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23992770


Wow, where did you come from? And do you hang out here very often?
 Quoting: Serendipity 25458009


I do tend to spend a little time each day lurking around GLP. Its kind of like an addiction that I can't kick (I don't join because Trinity keeps banning my IP). Its fascinating to read the rantings of so many people who are totally deluded, clinging the old 'certainties' yet ignoring the growing tide of anger and disillusionment that is permeating through all western societies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23992770


I fully agree with you and that is why I sincerely hope Dec. 2012 is "THE END" because the alternative is far worse.

The vale of illusion is lifting!

Last Edited by grefey on 11/12/2012 09:03 AM
waht

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11/12/2012 09:01 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
good post, OP!

bump
grefey

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11/12/2012 09:05 AM

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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
The video was pinned yesterday, someone help me find it. It's the one of the gal in a tie and she is talking about Goldman Scahs being leveraged 545 to 1.

Help me find it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19514200


Her name is Ann Barnhardt.
 Quoting: Paddy


I believe she is the one who closed her commodity trading firm after the MF Global scam.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 09:08 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
bump
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 09:19 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
Passing debt along to the little guy.........it will not stop until

A) The People stop it by force

B) Civilization crumbles from economical implosion.
 Quoting: --Voltaic--


Capitalism revolves around debt. All the manufacturing and services and other forms of value adding require vast amounts of debt to cater for the sheer volume of exchange. Without debt, capitalism would grind to a halt and growth would end. Banks simply facilitate this process and the markets are their venue of value amplification, similar to a shopkeepers retail premium on wholesale. The fact that it is all appearing shaky has less to do with it being the actions of bad people but rather the fact that the sheer momentum of these activities are reaching such a pitch that they threaten to overwhelm the system.

But to suggest that debt can somehow be made more acceptable is to vastly misunderstand the nature of the system we live within.

I personally see no point in getting into a froth about things. The system will eventually exhaust itself...not whilst countries such as India and China are entering the system however and not in our lifetimes.
 Quoting: Marxist


YES, DEBT is feeding the system. AND NOW they are running short of NEW DEBT also! They have to make MORE NEW DEBT than last year. Ann B. talks about that also. To replace the lack of NEW DEBT they are doing REPO and REVERSE REPO which is destructive!
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 09:36 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
On a practical note , I wonder how people barely getting by living with mom and dad. Are going service college debt , obamacare fees and transportation costs , if they are even lucky enough to have a job. The train has bout run out of track lol.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 09:41 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
You see what most people are not factoring in is that there are hundreds of millions of disenfranchised younger people across the western world who really couldn't give a crap about the security of Boomer's investments.

When the reality of their future finally dawns on them those people will rip this society limb-from-limb in a violent convulsion of rage and despair.

The only questions really left are when will the spark come that ignites the inferno, what alternative ideologies will present themselves and vie for power, and how long will the chaos last?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23992770


Anon 23992770 - I salute you and your purple prose!
Spot on - BRAVO!
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 09:42 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
On a practical note , I wonder how people barely getting by living with mom and dad. Are going service college debt , obamacare fees and transportation costs , if they are even lucky enough to have a job. The train has bout run out of track lol.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957572


One of those people is right here. I just sold my car because I worked out the maths and realised I was working part-time (can't get full-time hours) at a crappy job and was just making enough to run the car, and I was only using the car to go to work. Hilarious if it wasn't so desperately sad. I want to work but can't get anything. And before any smart ass starts up about there 'being work if you are willing to do crap jobs' - the job I do is cleaning offices at night - despite a university education and lots of experience in much better jobs.

What's the point?
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 09:45 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
You see what most people are not factoring in is that there are hundreds of millions of disenfranchised younger people across the western world who really couldn't give a crap about the security of Boomer's investments.

When the reality of their future finally dawns on them those people will rip this society limb-from-limb in a violent convulsion of rage and despair.

The only questions really left are when will the spark come that ignites the inferno, what alternative ideologies will present themselves and vie for power, and how long will the chaos last?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23992770


Anon 23992770 - I salute you and your purple prose!
Spot on - BRAVO!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2836766


Thank you. We may as well at least try to give a romantic undertone to the collapse. A kind of 'revolution of despair' if you will.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 09:51 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
One solution, well two actually. Gold/silver
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26120291


Don't put too much faith in this. Whilst gold and silver have had a certain stability to them in the past because they are a physical and scarce 'real thing', they won't save any of us from the future. The system is so out of whack, and the issues driving it all are so vast and detached from any conceivably sustainable system that it will still fall apart.

You see what most people are not factoring in is that there are hundreds of millions of disenfranchised younger people (by younger I mean forty and younger) right across the western world who really couldn't give a crap about the security of Boomer's investments. When the reality of their future finally dawns on them those people will rip this society limb-from-limb in a violent convulsion of rage and despair. It won't matter if you have gold assets or silver because the entire fabric of the system, and its infrastructure is going to be destroyed.

The only questions really left are when will the spark come that ignites the inferno, what alternative ideologies will present themselves and vie for power, and how long will the chaos last?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23992770


That's a compelling vision.

However I think that it's going to end with a whimper, not a bang. The chinese will be brought in to save us from the vision you described. They'll buy up everything, put those millions of disenfranchised young people to work in various factores and exile the rebellious ones to camps in the far north.

The rest of us will try to march forward acting as though nothing happened as our country and our way of life crumble in front of us in
s l o w m o t i o n . . .
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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11/12/2012 09:52 AM

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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
I think Ann frequently brings up some valid points about the markets and investor safety. But this has always been a system based on investor confidence. Confidence they are slowly erroding through blatant money theft (see MF Global).

The problem really now is that interest rates are so low. Many investors would love to put their money, or a portion thereof, into safter vehicles, but with an essentially negative return after inflation, what's the point?

We've never (at least in this prolonged financial cycle) faced such chronically low interest rates for such an extended period of time. Doom for the system as it currently stands is a rise in effective interest rates. Then you will begin to watch this thing unfold like a lawn chair...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 11/12/2012 10:32 AM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 09:54 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
One of those people is right here. I just sold my car because I worked out the maths and realised I was working part-time (can't get full-time hours) at a crappy job and was just making enough to run the car, and I was only using the car to go to work. Hilarious if it wasn't so desperately sad. I want to work but can't get anything. And before any smart ass starts up about there 'being work if you are willing to do crap jobs' - the job I do is cleaning offices at night - despite a university education and lots of experience in much better jobs.

What's the point?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23992770


I hate to say it but the point is this...
It is past time for the boomers to start dying en masse.

Although it was a cheesy sci-fi movie even when it was released - there is some sound resonance to the premise behind logans run - just like with sound money - you need to control the population of circulating units of value and one way of doing that is capping its longevity as it's circulatory activity dminishes it slows the entire corpus and needs to be culled.

Its just simple math!

1950: 16.5 employed workers per social security recipient

Presently: 2.9 employed workers per social security recipient

How soon until it is 1 to 1?

[link to mercatus.org]

THIS is unsustainable...
Mrbillybadass

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11/12/2012 09:59 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
bsflag doomer fantasy that will never happen
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 989322


Oh there is no swaying us "CRAZY" conspiracy loving doom tards, might as well go ahead and do something more productive with your time.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 10:06 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
The problem really now is that interest rates are so low. Many investors would love to put their money or a portion thereof into safter vehicles, but with an essentially negative return after inflation, what's the point?

We've never (at least in this prolonged financial cycle) faced such chronically low interest rates for such an extended period of time. Doom for the system as it currently stands is a rise in effective interest rates. Then you will begin to watch this thing unfold like a lawn chair...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Interest rate (and in general, economic data manipulation) = the silent weapons for the quiet war on class. The vast majority of seniors are saver who hope to live on the return on their savings - this return has been stripped via ZIRP while at the same time their COLAs have been suppressed thus forcing them into the risker vehicles proffered by the investment casino gulag - it is a quiet way ofshearing the sheep via despair and increasingly marginal returns whenever there are returns and not simply outright negatives and theft sponsored by the US Attorney General!

What would Jon Corzine do?
He'd probably continue to bundle while enjoying his freedom and his former client's money!
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 10:07 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
One solution, well two actually. Gold/silver
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26120291


Don't put too much faith in this. Whilst gold and silver have had a certain stability to them in the past because they are a physical and scarce 'real thing', they won't save any of us from the future. The system is so out of whack, and the issues driving it all are so vast and detached from any conceivably sustainable system that it will still fall apart.

You see what most people are not factoring in is that there are hundreds of millions of disenfranchised younger people (by younger I mean forty and younger) right across the western world who really couldn't give a crap about the security of Boomer's investments. When the reality of their future finally dawns on them those people will rip this society limb-from-limb in a violent convulsion of rage and despair. It won't matter if you have gold assets or silver because the entire fabric of the system, and its infrastructure is going to be destroyed.

The only questions really left are when will the spark come that ignites the inferno, what alternative ideologies will present themselves and vie for power, and how long will the chaos last?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23992770


Wow, where did you come from? And do you hang out here very often?
 Quoting: Serendipity 25458009


What's a girl like you doing in a place like this?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 203360
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11/12/2012 10:24 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
One of those people is right here. I just sold my car because I worked out the maths and realised I was working part-time (can't get full-time hours) at a crappy job and was just making enough to run the car, and I was only using the car to go to work. Hilarious if it wasn't so desperately sad. I want to work but can't get anything. And before any smart ass starts up about there 'being work if you are willing to do crap jobs' - the job I do is cleaning offices at night - despite a university education and lots of experience in much better jobs.

What's the point?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23992770


I hate to say it but the point is this...
It is past time for the boomers to start dying en masse.

Although it was a cheesy sci-fi movie even when it was released - there is some sound resonance to the premise behind logans run - just like with sound money - you need to control the population of circulating units of value and one way of doing that is capping its longevity as it's circulatory activity dminishes it slows the entire corpus and needs to be culled.

Its just simple math!

1950: 16.5 employed workers per social security recipient

Presently: 2.9 employed workers per social security recipient

How soon until it is 1 to 1?

[link to mercatus.org]

THIS is unsustainable...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2836766


Culling the old, so that the MINDLESS VIDEO GAME BRATS of the new generation can have MORE does not sound sustainable either. The new generation doesn't even know what work is! And they are dumb!... so WOW, I say maybe culling of the old is the wrong demographic.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 10:33 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
Passing debt along to the little guy.........it will not stop until

A) The People stop it by force

B) Civilization crumbles from economical implosion.
 Quoting: --Voltaic--


It really is that simple!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 203360
United States
11/12/2012 10:37 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
Passing debt along to the little guy.........it will not stop until

A) The People stop it by force

B) Civilization crumbles from economical implosion.
 Quoting: --Voltaic--


It really is that simple!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1487396


Since #1 creates #2 from lack of organization (chaos in the aftermath), we are by default left with #2.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 10:47 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
Culling the old, so that the MINDLESS VIDEO GAME BRATS of the new generation can have MORE does not sound sustainable either. The new generation doesn't even know what work is! And they are dumb!... so WOW, I say maybe culling of the old is the wrong demographic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 203360


Spoken... err... written like someone on the wrong end of the culling debate!
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 10:50 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
On a practical note , I wonder how people barely getting by living with mom and dad. Are going service college debt , obamacare fees and transportation costs , if they are even lucky enough to have a job. The train has bout run out of track lol.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957572


One of those people is right here. I just sold my car because I worked out the maths and realised I was working part-time (can't get full-time hours) at a crappy job and was just making enough to run the car, and I was only using the car to go to work. Hilarious if it wasn't so desperately sad. I want to work but can't get anything. And before any smart ass starts up about there 'being work if you are willing to do crap jobs' - the job I do is cleaning offices at night - despite a university education and lots of experience in much better jobs.

What's the point?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23992770


I just did the same for the same reason. Taking the money and buying food stocks. Fixed up the bike and got myself a good pair of hiking shoes. Maybe when enough of us "opt out" the system can finally reboot. The only thing keeping this insanity going is that enough people are participating to keep it together. Atlas needs to shrug already.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 10:53 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
Culling the old, so that the MINDLESS VIDEO GAME BRATS of the new generation can have MORE does not sound sustainable either. The new generation doesn't even know what work is! And they are dumb!... so WOW, I say maybe culling of the old is the wrong demographic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 203360


Spoken... err... written like someone on the wrong end of the culling debate!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2836766


One could argue that the "younger" can still work in slave labor camps, yes, until they collapse ro death, they probably can work a bit longer than the old. But then what is the point? What kind of world are you creating here where the only future jobs MAY be slave labor like in China.

Cull the old, so that the new generation can be slave laborers who want to jump out the window if they don't get double Zoloft pronto.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 10:58 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
"What culls around comes around", once we start "organized culling", this doesn't stop anywhere necessarily.

IT makes its way to "those who aren't trying hard enough to help society.." etc.

See how the cull goes?
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 11:03 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
One could argue that the "younger" can still work in slave labor camps, yes, until they collapse ro death, they probably can work a bit longer than the old. But then what is the point? What kind of world are you creating here where the only future jobs MAY be slave labor like in China.

Cull the old, so that the new generation can be slave laborers who want to jump out the window if they don't get double Zoloft pronto.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 203360


Sorry for the snark - I think we're on the same page (and I am part of the cull too)... the problems of today just don't lend themselves to hyperbolic overkill because everytime you think you've come up with some fresh Swiftian outrageous satire realty picks up the slack and outpaces you 10:1! (e.g. suicide prevention nets as a management response to requests for "improved" working conditions!)

Suffice to say we are all in a world of trouble and the hits just keep coming!
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 11:09 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
"What culls around comes around", once we start "organized culling", this doesn't stop anywhere necessarily.

IT makes its way to "those who aren't trying hard enough to help society.." etc.

See how the cull goes?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 203360


yep!

numbh one on the george's guidestones: Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]


earth's current population:

6,973,738,433

[link to www.google.com]


So some simple math says we have 6,473,738,433 superfluous homo sapiens!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 957572
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11/12/2012 11:27 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
The problem really now is that interest rates are so low. Many investors would love to put their money or a portion thereof into safter vehicles, but with an essentially negative return after inflation, what's the point?

We've never (at least in this prolonged financial cycle) faced such chronically low interest rates for such an extended period of time. Doom for the system as it currently stands is a rise in effective interest rates. Then you will begin to watch this thing unfold like a lawn chair...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Interest rate (and in general, economic data manipulation) = the silent weapons for the quiet war on class. The vast majority of seniors are saver who hope to live on the return on their savings - this return has been stripped via ZIRP while at the same time their COLAs have been suppressed thus forcing them into the risker vehicles proffered by the investment casino gulag - it is a quiet way ofshearing the sheep via despair and increasingly marginal returns whenever there are returns and not simply outright negatives and theft sponsored by the US Attorney General!

What would Jon Corzine do?
He'd probably continue to bundle while enjoying his freedom and his former client's money!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2836766


Sort of left out the greater fool theory . no matter how much one paid for an investment , there is always a greater fool willing too pay more. So the pensioneers holding out for a return of 2005 real estate prices , plus selling their "risky stocks" for a pretty penney , then dumping all the money in secure interest paying investment , got fucked ).

lol the youfs making 10 thousand a year or less are not going too give a rats ass about your 500 k home or 500 k portfolio being reduced to 5 % of less of its all time high in value. I have cash , and will not buy a fucking thing until things really start to crater . say nice real estate going for a tenth of its current price. Enough so I can make a damn nice profit renting rooms for 25 a week to your angry youfs )
IssueX

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11/12/2012 11:30 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
One solution, well two actually. Gold/silver
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26120291


Don't put too much faith in this. Whilst gold and silver have had a certain stability to them in the past because they are a physical and scarce 'real thing', they won't save any of us from the future. The system is so out of whack, and the issues driving it all are so vast and detached from any conceivably sustainable system that it will still fall apart.

You see what most people are not factoring in is that there are hundreds of millions of disenfranchised younger people (by younger I mean forty and younger) right across the western world who really couldn't give a crap about the security of Boomer's investments.

When the reality of their future finally dawns on them those people will rip this society limb-from-limb in a violent convulsion of rage and despair. It won't matter if you have gold assets or silver because the entire fabric of the system, and its infrastructure is going to be destroyed.

The only questions really left are when will the spark come that ignites the inferno, what alternative ideologies will present themselves and vie for power, and how long will the chaos last?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23992770


Wow, where did you come from? And do you hang out here very often?
 Quoting: Serendipity 25458009



we're in SLV puts, fwiw...agree with the poster above...
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2012 11:36 AM
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Re: "NO BID" threat looming. When the computers stop trading...any tradable funds may drop to zero!
One of those people is right here. I just sold my car because I worked out the maths and realised I was working part-time (can't get full-time hours) at a crappy job and was just making enough to run the car, and I was only using the car to go to work. Hilarious if it wasn't so desperately sad. I want to work but can't get anything. And before any smart ass starts up about there 'being work if you are willing to do crap jobs' - the job I do is cleaning offices at night - despite a university education and lots of experience in much better jobs.

What's the point?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23992770


I hate to say it but the point is this...
It is past time for the boomers to start dying en masse.

Although it was a cheesy sci-fi movie even when it was released - there is some sound resonance to the premise behind logans run - just like with sound money - you need to control the population of circulating units of value and one way of doing that is capping its longevity as it's circulatory activity dminishes it slows the entire corpus and needs to be culled.

Its just simple math!

1950: 16.5 employed workers per social security recipient

Presently: 2.9 employed workers per social security recipient

How soon until it is 1 to 1?

[link to mercatus.org]

THIS is unsustainable...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2836766


I turned into a pyramid scheme, after they put the money in the general fund. You can thank the late Presidents, for doing that to pay for the Vietnam war, we should not have fought in the first place. No other presidents put it back and they could have. The greed of Washington politicians and their love of spending other peoples money, has no end.

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