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9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims

 
mopar28m
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11/14/2012 12:36 AM

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9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
[link to preventdisease.com]

Since the flu pandemic was declared, there have been several so-called "vaccine experts" coming out of the wood work attempting to justify the effectiveness of vaccines. All of them parrot the same ridiculous historical and pseudoscientific perspectives of vaccinations which are easily squelched with the following 9 questions.

Claim: The study of vaccines, their historical record of achievements, effectiveness, safety and mechanism in humans are well understood and proven in scientific and medical circles.

Fact: The claim is completely false.

1. What to ask: Could you please provide one double-blind, placebo-controlled study that can prove the safety and effectiveness of vaccines?

2. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific evidence on ANY study which can confirm the long-term safety and effectiveness of vaccines?

3. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific evidence which can prove that disease reduction in any part of the world, at any point in history was attributable to inoculation of populations?

4. What to ask: Could you please explain how the safety and mechanism of vaccines in the human body are scientifically proven if their pharmacokinetics (the study of bodily absorption, distribution, metabolism and excretion of ingredients) are never examined
or analyzed in any vaccine study?

One of the most critical elements which defines the toxicity potential of any vaccine are its pharmacokinetic properties. Drug companies and health agencies refuse to consider the study, analysis or evaluation of the pharmacokinetic properties of any vaccine.

There is not one double-blind, placebo-controlled study in the history of vaccine development that has ever proven their safety, effectiveness or achievements (unless those achievements have underlined their damage to human health).

There are also no controlled studies completed in any country which have objectively proven that vaccines have had any direct or consequential effect on the reduction of any type of disease in any
part of the world.

Every single study that has ever attempted to validate the safety and effectiveness of vaccines has conclusively established carcinogenic, mutagenic, neurotoxic or fertility impairments, but they won't address those.

[snip]
vaccinefreehealth.spam

vaccinefreehealth@hushmail.com

Racin​g to end vaccinations.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 12:48 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
[link to preventdisease.com]

Since the flu pandemic was declared, there have been several so-called "vaccine experts" coming out of the wood work attempting to justify the effectiveness of vaccines. All of them parrot the same ridiculous historical and pseudoscientific perspectives of vaccinations which are easily squelched with the following 9 questions.

Claim: The study of vaccines, their historical record of achievements, effectiveness, safety and mechanism in humans are well understood and proven in scientific and medical circles.

Fact: The claim is completely false.

1. What to ask: Could you please provide one double-blind, placebo-controlled study that can prove the safety and effectiveness of vaccines?

2. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific evidence on ANY study which can confirm the long-term safety and effectiveness of vaccines?

3. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific evidence which can prove that disease reduction in any part of the world, at any point in history was attributable to inoculation of populations?

4. What to ask: Could you please explain how the safety and mechanism of vaccines in the human body are scientifically proven if their pharmacokinetics (the study of bodily absorption, distribution, metabolism and excretion of ingredients) are never examined
or analyzed in any vaccine study?

One of the most critical elements which defines the toxicity potential of any vaccine are its pharmacokinetic properties. Drug companies and health agencies refuse to consider the study, analysis or evaluation of the pharmacokinetic properties of any vaccine.

There is not one double-blind, placebo-controlled study in the history of vaccine development that has ever proven their safety, effectiveness or achievements (unless those achievements have underlined their damage to human health).

There are also no controlled studies completed in any country which have objectively proven that vaccines have had any direct or consequential effect on the reduction of any type of disease in any
part of the world.

Every single study that has ever attempted to validate the safety and effectiveness of vaccines has conclusively established carcinogenic, mutagenic, neurotoxic or fertility impairments, but they won't address those.

[snip]
 Quoting: mopar28m


clappa

not to mention there is evidence that people who get the flushot this year are more apt to get h1n1.
Mister ObviousModerator
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11/14/2012 12:49 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
Love your threads Mopar, good poster who actually cares about other people.
mopar28m (OP)
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11/14/2012 12:50 AM

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Love your threads Mopar, good poster who actually cares about other people.
 Quoting: Mister Obvious


hf

Thank you.
vaccinefreehealth.spam

vaccinefreehealth@hushmail.com

Racin​g to end vaccinations.
Abi ~

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11/14/2012 12:53 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
bump
You accept the love you think you deserve~~~

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PhennommennonnModerator
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11/14/2012 12:54 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
the schticks that push the needle are clueless tools.

if eating boogars was in the medical journals as being the fountain of youth they'd be pushing nose picking.

truth.
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"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you've heard a lot here today and I won't try to go back over it all. But you have to go back in that room and make some decisions and there is one thing I want to make very clear to you before you do. I'm not trying to convince you that you should like what Larry Flynt does. I don't like what he does. But what I do like is... that I live in a country... where you and I can make that decision for ourselves. I like that I live in a country where I can pick up Hustler magazine... read it if I want... or throw it in the trash, if that's where I think it belongs. Or better yet I can express my opinion by not buying it. I like that right. I care about it. And you should care about it, too... because we live in a free country. We say that a lot, but sometimes we forget what that means, so listen again. We live in a free country. That is a powerful idea. That's a magnificent way to live. But there is a price for that freedom, which is that sometimes... we have to tolerate things that we don't necessarily like. So go back in that room... where you are free to think whatever you want to think... about Larry Flynt and Hustler magazine. But then ask yourselves if you want to make that decision for the rest of us... because the freedom that everyone in this room enjoys... is, in a very real way, in your hands. If we start throwing up walls against what some of us think is obscene... we may wake up one morning and realize... that walls have been thrown upin places we never expected... and we can't see anythingor... do anything. And that's not freedom. That is not freedom. So, be careful. Thank you."
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Abi ~

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11/14/2012 01:00 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
the schticks that push the needle are clueless tools.

if eating boogars was in the medical journals as being the fountain of youth they'd be pushing nose picking.

truth.
 Quoting: Phennommennonn


pick

^^true, but for the moment, they will keep the boogie eatin under iron deficiency...

nice post, OP...thank you for sharing..;)

You accept the love you think you deserve~~~

Love cannot live where there is no trust~~~

Truth has no temperature~~~
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 01:08 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
I get the whole anti vaccine hype. I'm on board.
What about eradication of smallpox and polio?
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 01:09 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
Love your threads Mopar, good poster who actually cares about other people.
 Quoting: Mister Obvious


hf

Thank you.
 Quoting: mopar28m


Brilliant post , brilliant blog. Thanks for your info and input on this matter. I was nearly killed by an anti swine flu drug called tamiflu. It left me with Guillian barre syndrome. Here's some very upto date news I hope you can use.
Again thank you for your post. It's nice to see h1n1 awareness

The truth is coming out

[link to www.dailymail.co.uk]
UseLess RepEATER
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11/14/2012 01:11 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
I'll list the others for you Mop considering fair usage:

...5. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific justification as to how injecting a human being with a confirmed neurotoxin is beneficial to human health and prevents disease?

6. What to ask: Can you provide a risk/benefit profile on how the benefits of injecting a known neurotoxin exceeds its risks to human health for the intended goal of preventing disease?

[snip]

...7. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific justification on how bypassing the respiratory tract (or mucous membrane) is advantageous and how directly injecting viruses into the bloodstream enhances immune functioning and prevents future infections?

8. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific justification on how a vaccine would prevent viruses from mutating?

9. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific justification as to how a vaccination can target a virus in an infected individual who does not have the exact viral configuration or strain the vaccine was developed for?

[link to preventdisease.com]
Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~
Neilh1n1
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11/14/2012 01:11 AM
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Btw bump till yeh get hiccups
mopar28m (OP)
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11/14/2012 01:14 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
I get the whole anti vaccine hype. I'm on board.
What about eradication of smallpox and polio?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26828773


When the small pox vaccine was mandated in England, the deaths from small pox actually went up.

Polio has not been eradicated, the requirements for being diagnosed with Polio has been changed. You have to have some sort of paralysis for 36 days in order to be diagnosed with Polio, otherwise you are diagnosed with aseptic meningitis.
vaccinefreehealth.spam

vaccinefreehealth@hushmail.com

Racin​g to end vaccinations.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 01:14 AM
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a Big bump
Whiskey Brother
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11/14/2012 01:15 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
Another poster beat me too it, but since polio and small pox are no longer an issue in this country, the effectiveness of vaccines is pretty apparent.
mopar28m (OP)
John 3:16

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11/14/2012 01:16 AM

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Love your threads Mopar, good poster who actually cares about other people.
 Quoting: Mister Obvious

hf
Thank you.
 Quoting: mopar28m


Brilliant post , brilliant blog. Thanks for your info and input on this matter. I was nearly killed by an anti swine flu drug called tamiflu. It left me with Guillian barre syndrome. Here's some very upto date news I hope you can use.
Again thank you for your post. It's nice to see h1n1 awareness

The truth is coming out

[link to www.dailymail.co.uk]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27677183


Tamiflu has psychotropic drugs in it & I tell anyone I know don't get it. Its not worth the risk just shorten your bug by a day or 2. I advocate for a natural way to shorten the bug. (Vit. A & vit. D3)
vaccinefreehealth.spam

vaccinefreehealth@hushmail.com

Racin​g to end vaccinations.
Meggarea

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11/14/2012 01:16 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
I have gotten a lot of flak for being skeptical on this one, but I would love to see any one of those studies that showed a link between vaccines and any negative effects, as well. I never get flu shots, and I think this Gardasil thing is fishy, but, as a previous poster said, what about polio and smallpox? Those are two big killers that were only brought under control after the development of a vaccine. Measles, mumps, and rubella were also killers of children for a long time, until vaccines came along. How can anyone say the near eradication of deadly diseases is not a good thing?

Granted, wondering what weird crap they put into me in the 70's is a tad worrying, but thus far I have not suffered any ill effects from these vaccines, that I know of. While I would love to see the evidence you suggest asking for, that coin has two sides. So far, all I see is a lot of healthy people who never suffered from these horrible afflictions, and a bunch of speculation. Of course, it's easy for me to argue and play Devil's Advocate, as both myself and my kids all have as many vaccines as we are going to get. There's not much you can do after the fact, except try to get facts. So far, neither side seems to be producing very many.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 01:19 AM
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(Hint): Eating boogers is good for you.....as is eating dirt as a child......anti-bacterial soaps are bad fyi....
mopar28m (OP)
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11/14/2012 01:21 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
The death rate from childhood diseases were on the way down prior to the widespread use of vaccines, including deaths from diseases that don't have vaccines. (Scarlet fever, TB)

[link to genesgreenbook.com]


These charts use data from the CDC.

SIDS was almost unheard prior to the widespread use of vaccines.
vaccinefreehealth.spam

vaccinefreehealth@hushmail.com

Racin​g to end vaccinations.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 01:22 AM
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I found this after a quick google search.

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

It's a Double Blind Placebo Controlled test of vaccine.
UseLess RepEATER
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11/14/2012 01:23 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
Another poster beat me too it, but since polio and small pox are no longer an issue in this country, the effectiveness of vaccines is pretty apparent.
 Quoting: Whiskey Brother 11702187


WB, here's a historical perspective to support OP's point regarding smallpox:

...THE ORIGIN OF VACCINATION.

Why do people believe in vaccination? Why did they ever believe in the King’s touch?

Jenner’s idea was based solely upon a dairymaid’s superstition. He sought to give it a scientific air by calling cowpox (a disease which bears no analogy to smallpox) variolae vaccinae—i.e., smallpox of the cow. The Latin name was not without its effect, and anything that promised less harmful results than the prevailing practice of the direct inoculation of smallpox matter (which had been killing people by hundreds, and afterwards had to be forbidden by Act of Parliament) was acceptable at the time to the frightened and gullible population. The rest was an affair of influence. When once an error is accepted by a profession corporately and endowed by Government, to uproot it becomes a herculean task, beside which the entrance of a rich man into the Kingdom of heaven is easy.

The Compulsory Vaccination Act was passed in 1853; a still more stringent one followed in 1867. And between the years 1871 and 1880 there were 57,016 smallpox deaths. Compare this with the small number in the present day, when considerably more than half the population is unvaccinated, and when awful warnings are periodically uttered about the decimating scourge always "bound to come," which never arrives! Between 1911 and 1920 the deaths numbered only 110.

Let us look at the most recent Annual report of the Registrar-General—the eighty-third. He states that during the last 15 years 53 vaccinated persons have died of smallpox. In addition, there were 92 other deaths of the "doubtful" class mentioned above; that is, those declared by patients or friends to have been vaccinated, but which have been entered by medical officials as "doubtful" rather than take the slight trouble of searching the registers for verification. We may conclude, therefore, that there were 145 cases of smallpox deaths in vaccinated persons in this country during the last 15 years. And yet there were only 78 unvaccinated deaths during the same period. Thus, the rate of vaccinated to unvaccinated deaths is nearly two to one. This is the more remarkable seeing that during this same 15 years England has been largely unvaccinated, probably to the extent of about 75 per cent.

Great article here:

[link to www.whale.to]
Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
~U.R.~

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~
GaryMule

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11/14/2012 01:34 AM
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Love your threads Mopar, good poster who actually cares about other people.
 Quoting: Mister Obvious


clappa
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 01:35 AM
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I've read that the fall in polio cases coincided with the banning of DDT.

Is there a Polio virus in captivity, or is polio a syndrome?
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 01:35 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
[link to preventdisease.com]

Since the flu pandemic was declared, there have been several so-called "vaccine experts" coming out of the wood work attempting to justify the effectiveness of vaccines. All of them parrot the same ridiculous historical and pseudoscientific perspectives of vaccinations which are easily squelched with the following 9 questions.

Claim: The study of vaccines, their historical record of achievements, effectiveness, safety and mechanism in humans are well understood and proven in scientific and medical circles.

Fact: The claim is completely false.

1. What to ask: Could you please provide one double-blind, placebo-controlled study that can prove the safety and effectiveness of vaccines?

2. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific evidence on ANY study which can confirm the long-term safety and effectiveness of vaccines?

3. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific evidence which can prove that disease reduction in any part of the world, at any point in history was attributable to inoculation of populations?

4. What to ask: Could you please explain how the safety and mechanism of vaccines in the human body are scientifically proven if their pharmacokinetics (the study of bodily absorption, distribution, metabolism and excretion of ingredients) are never examined
or analyzed in any vaccine study?

One of the most critical elements which defines the toxicity potential of any vaccine are its pharmacokinetic properties. Drug companies and health agencies refuse to consider the study, analysis or evaluation of the pharmacokinetic properties of any vaccine.

There is not one double-blind, placebo-controlled study in the history of vaccine development that has ever proven their safety, effectiveness or achievements (unless those achievements have underlined their damage to human health).

There are also no controlled studies completed in any country which have objectively proven that vaccines have had any direct or consequential effect on the reduction of any type of disease in any
part of the world.

Every single study that has ever attempted to validate the safety and effectiveness of vaccines has conclusively established carcinogenic, mutagenic, neurotoxic or fertility impairments, but they won't address those.

[snip]
 Quoting: mopar28m



Heavens sake done worry about vaccines, if they arent already a thing of the past they soon will be.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 01:35 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
OP-

Edward Jenner showed that vaccination against smallpox using cowpox made one immune to smallpox in 1976. Before this vaccine, smallpox killed about 20-30% of people.

Louis Pasteur developed a vaccine for anthrax in the 1870s for cattle, after he noticed that dead chicken cholera made chickens sick initially, but afterwards those chickens were immune to live bacteria.

Pasteur also developed a vaccine for rabbies, by growing the virus in rabbits, then drying out the infected nerve tissue, and vaccinated people with it.

Jonas Salk and his polio vaccine (and the later, oral polio vaccine) have essentially eradicated the polio virus from (first world) societies. Hardly anyone in the world gets polio nowadays.

Need more experiments?

Proof: Smallpox and rinderpest have been completely eradicated by humans. Polio has been eradicated in the Americas, Europe, and East Asia- it's mainly a problem in Nigeria, Pakistan, and Afghanistan.

I wonder what education level people in this thread have. Probably not college level. I'm sure no one in this thread has a science degree so they are puzzled by basic concepts.

You should buy this OP
[link to www.amazon.com]
Anonymous Coward
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Here is a study on long term safety of vaccinations. Although there is a slight increase of a condition that might be harmful, it is a very rare illness even among people with vaccinations.

[link to www.vaccines.mil]
BetteDavisEyes
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bumpz

4

TRUTH!

Thank you OP hf!
Anonymous Coward
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As to proof that inoculation has decreased infections, here is an interesting one I found.

[link to www.aafp.org]

Although the prevalence of Pertussis is still significant, the infection range has SHIFTED dramatically. Now instead of affecting the youngest, it mostly affects people before they are inoculated, and ones after the immunity wears off, at which point their body is much more able to fight it off on it's own, which has reduced the mortality rate.
UseLess RepEATER
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As to proof that inoculation has decreased infections, here is an interesting one I found.

[link to www.aafp.org]

Although the prevalence of Pertussis is still significant, the infection range has SHIFTED dramatically. Now instead of affecting the youngest, it mostly affects people before they are inoculated, and ones after the immunity wears off, at which point their body is much more able to fight it off on it's own, which has reduced the mortality rate.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9266723


shill
Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
~U.R.~

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 01:53 AM
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Blogs are not a valid source of factual information
Kiljaeden

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
the schticks that push the needle are clueless tools.

if eating boogars was in the medical journals as being the fountain of youth they'd be pushing nose picking.

truth.
 Quoting: Phennommennonn


Not if they can't make a profit on it.
not even hitler can top drowning an entire planet of people.
atheism isn't a religion, it's a personal relationship with reality.
being an atheist, a christian threatening me with hell is like a
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MzTreeChick

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I get the whole anti vaccine hype. I'm on board.
What about eradication of smallpox and polio?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26828773


When the small pox vaccine was mandated in England, the deaths from small pox actually went up.

Polio has not been eradicated, the requirements for being diagnosed with Polio has been changed. You have to have some sort of paralysis for 36 days in order to be diagnosed with Polio, otherwise you are diagnosed with aseptic meningitis.
 Quoting: mopar28m




One school of thought is They have also changed the name to things like MS and Fibromyalgia as well as several others, symptoms are very similar to polio.



hf rockon
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