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9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims

 
UseLess RepEATER
Those who know the least obey the best: G.F.

User ID: 24466426
United States
11/14/2012 03:34 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
I totally concur. "fluoride" is just a catchall for several toxins introduced to our water supply, many of which originate from China. DO NOT DRINK MUNICIPAL WATER FOLKS! Find an alternative source for drinking, cooking (rinsing veggies, fruits, etc.). It's bad enough we bathe in city water (most of us), but don't ingest is AT ALL. I have done hundreds of hours of research to support my recommendations.
 Quoting: UseLess RepEATER


These chemicals are also found in bottled water- especially the environmental estrogens that leak off plastic (NEVER drink water from a bottle that's been in the hot sun, like the pallets of water bottle they put outside of some supermarkets!!)

Water filters like brita or the one in your fridge are not very good and will not get rid of most chemicals.

Good filters will get rid of chemicals like environmental estrogens but the only way to completely get rid of all contaminants is reverse osmosis (to the best of my knowledge), but an adequate set-up is not feasible for most people.

At the very least, you should buy bpa-free water bottles for you and your family.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2497414


Good add-on suggestions, as I was not specific. R/O is the way to go utilizing glass receptacles. We just regularly refill jugs at our local PCC (co-op). If the system goes down; I have a ProPur ready to go and it(PNW)rains enough to set up a catch system. I don't like drinking h2o from BPA plastic botles, but it's always a trade-off when trying to maintain health. I seldom do it, but would drink a bottled water way before drinking from the tap.
Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
~U.R.~

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4211721
United States
11/14/2012 03:36 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
1. What to ask: Could you please provide one double-blind, placebo-controlled study that can prove the safety and effectiveness of vaccines?

 Quoting: mopar28m

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
2. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific evidence on ANY study which can confirm the long-term safety and effectiveness of vaccines?
 Quoting: mopar

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

3. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific evidence which can prove that disease reduction in any part of the world, at any point in history was attributable to inoculation of populations?

[link to jama.jamanetwork.com]

4. What to ask: Could you please explain how the safety and mechanism of vaccines in the human body are scientifically proven if their pharmacokinetics (the study of bodily absorption, distribution, metabolism and excretion of ingredients) are never examined
or analyzed in any vaccine study?

[link to cancerres.aacrjournals.org]

Tired of this anti-vax bullshit. It's false and dangerous.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 03:45 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
MOST bottled water isn't made with BPA plastics.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9266723


1- bpa is a chemical compound found in plastics, it's not a category of plastics.

2- they don't add bpa or other environmental estrogens to the water. the environmental estrogens leak into the water from where tap water and most bottled water come from. in addition, those chemicals leak into the water from the water bottles themselves over time, specially at warmer temps.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2497414
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11/14/2012 03:48 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
Good add-on suggestions, as I was not specific. R/O is the way to go utilizing glass receptacles. We just regularly refill jugs at our local PCC (co-op). If the system goes down; I have a ProPur ready to go and it(PNW)rains enough to set up a catch system. I don't like drinking h2o from BPA plastic botles, but it's always a trade-off when trying to maintain health. I seldom do it, but would drink a bottled water way before drinking from the tap.
 Quoting: UseLess RepEATER


what's your take on plastic water bottles labeled bpa free, like camelback for example.

if i wasn't on that poverty time, I would buy glass containers to replace my Tupperware.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 03:51 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
My mother got the flushot last year. A couple of days after she got the shot ,she got the flu.The doctor recomended her to take it because of her weak condition. ?!?! Drink a lot of ginger lemon tea with honey instead and have some garlicbread with that,its more safe and taste fantastic.hf
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27667491
United Kingdom
11/14/2012 03:53 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
i have never had the flu shot and the last time i had flu (and i mean proper flu where you are incapacitated) was THIRTY YEARS AGO

same with my kids, no vaccine - never had flu as yet (12 and 17 y/o)

same with their dad, one case of genuine flu maybe 30 years ago



on the other hand i know several people who regularly get it as a requirement by their workplace (nurses/teachers) and they are 'always' ill


so, are all these jab-receipients hypochondriac drama queens? or is the jab useless or worse than useless?
MzTreeChick

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Australia
11/14/2012 04:01 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
[link to www.cdc.gov]

AC723 - Just for you from the CDC themselves.

...Recent estimates from CDC's Autism Developmental Disabilities Monitoring network found that about 1 in 88 children have ASD. This estimate is higher than estimates from the early 1990s. Over the years, some people have had concerns that autism might be linked to the vaccines children receive. One vaccine ingredient that has been studied specifically is thimerosal, previously used as a preservative in many recommended childhood vaccines...


BY THEIR OWN WORDS THEY HAVE ONLY TESTED ONE INGREDIENT FOR A POSSIBLE CAUSE OF AUTISM!!!

However since you are obviously a stooge, a sheep I'm sure you can justify this in a way that only makes sense to you.

* * In the interest of fairplay I will advise you that my daughter received vaccine-induced-autism 13yrs ago.




hf rockon
 Quoting: MzTreeChick


A lack of studies is not proof, and there is no evidence directly linking autism to vaccines. As many people have pointed out, you could make just as strong an argument that clean water and sanitation caused the rise in Autism.

I am sorry that you have to deal with this illness. I'm not going to pretend I can understand what you're going through, but that's not a reason to blame something.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9266723



AC723 - Whilst I am think-skinned I really do appreciate the way you are responding without acting like a limp dick, finally someone with some level of maturity.

Watching my then 2yr old lose the ability to walk and talk within hrs of receiving several vax as per the gov authorised schedule in my particular situation is not playing the blame game but stating a FACT. (again in my situation)

In reference to minute amounts, what is classed as minute?
Whilst the amounts in one vax may be minute and considered 'safe' times that by the 5 - 8 vax they give little babies all in one go.
Look at how dangerous minute amounts of peanut dust can cause death in the wrong people and that is not a problem for most people, peanuts are eaten ever day, but the chemicals they but into vax ARE DANGEROUS AT ANY LEVEL!

Most people that get labeled as Anti-vaccine, myself included, are not we just want better testing, less unnecessary toxins, full disclosure on side-effects and to actually have the right to decide what is the best course of action to take. All we want really is the right to make a completely informed decision regarding the health and safety of our kids.

Surely this should not make us 'enemies' to the pro-vaxers?

My informed decision is that we will no longer be getting vaxed, however if in your informed decision you choice to vax then that is your right.

How can you make an informed decision without having all the information?




hf rockon
* Eat recycled food, it's good for the environment and O.K for you. (Judge Dredd)
UseLess RepEATER
Those who know the least obey the best: G.F.

User ID: 24466426
United States
11/14/2012 04:01 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
Good add-on suggestions, as I was not specific. R/O is the way to go utilizing glass receptacles. We just regularly refill jugs at our local PCC (co-op). If the system goes down; I have a ProPur ready to go and it(PNW)rains enough to set up a catch system. I don't like drinking h2o from BPA plastic botles, but it's always a trade-off when trying to maintain health. I seldom do it, but would drink a bottled water way before drinking from the tap.
 Quoting: UseLess RepEATER


what's your take on plastic water bottles labeled bpa free, like camelback for example.

if i wasn't on that poverty time, I would buy glass containers to replace my Tupperware.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2497414


I happen to use a BPA water bottle for re-filling purposes and I trust it as much as I trust any label. I would prefer to drink out of glass, but it isn't always feasible when out in the field, exercising, or such. That said, most plastic hve that triangular numbering system. Supposedly, 1 is best and 7 is worst. However, most "Sparkletts" bottles are a 7 which is a harder plastic. I have queried Crystal Springs as to their plastic bottles' being a "7". Their answer was: that "7" is the hardest plastic avbailable; the most durable; and will not shed BPA unless exposed to "extreme" heat whatever that is.

Last Edited by UseLessRepEATER on 11/14/2012 04:04 AM
Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
~U.R.~

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2497414
United States
11/14/2012 04:03 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
i have never had the flu shot and the last time i had flu (and i mean proper flu where you are incapacitated) was THIRTY YEARS AGO

same with my kids, no vaccine - never had flu as yet (12 and 17 y/o)

same with their dad, one case of genuine flu maybe 30 years ago



on the other hand i know several people who regularly get it as a requirement by their workplace (nurses/teachers) and they are 'always' ill


so, are all these jab-receipients hypochondriac drama queens? or is the jab useless or worse than useless?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27667491


The thing about the influenza virus is that it mutates so quickly, multiple strands can attack during any one season. While the flu shot protects you against the strands that are in it, it doesn't protect you against all strands.

You probably have good hygiene and it sounds like you're not around sick people often. Nurses and teachers are more susceptible to catching things like the flu because they work stressful jobs and their patients/students bring in the virus. Nurses get close to their patients and they breath the same air (like face to face sometimes). Teachers take home and grade the papers that their students touched, sneezed, and coughed on. And you can't emphasize the stress factor enough.

flu vaccine is probably the one you're ok to skip. IMO it's not necessary. But I wouldn't skip a hepatitis/tetanus/etc vaccine.

If you get bit by a rabid dog, you're telling me you wouldn't get vaccinated against rabbies?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2497414
United States
11/14/2012 04:07 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
AC723 - Whilst I am think-skinned I really do appreciate the way you are responding without acting like a limp dick, finally someone with some level of maturity.

Watching my then 2yr old lose the ability to walk and talk within hrs of receiving several vax as per the gov authorised schedule in my particular situation is not playing the blame game but stating a FACT. (again in my situation)

In reference to minute amounts, what is classed as minute?
Whilst the amounts in one vax may be minute and considered 'safe' times that by the 5 - 8 vax they give little babies all in one go.
Look at how dangerous minute amounts of peanut dust can cause death in the wrong people and that is not a problem for most people, peanuts are eaten ever day, but the chemicals they but into vax ARE DANGEROUS AT ANY LEVEL!

Most people that get labeled as Anti-vaccine, myself included, are not we just want better testing, less unnecessary toxins, full disclosure on side-effects and to actually have the right to decide what is the best course of action to take. All we want really is the right to make a completely informed decision regarding the health and safety of our kids.

Surely this should not make us 'enemies' to the pro-vaxers?

My informed decision is that we will no longer be getting vaxed, however if in your informed decision you choice to vax then that is your right.

How can you make an informed decision without having all the information?




hf rockon
 Quoting: MzTreeChick


you weren't talking to me but i'll say that a lot of those chemicals aren't unnecessary. They're used in the preparation of the vaccines. At work, I use formaldehyde and EDTA as stabilizing agents for DNA strands (I work in genetics research).
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2497414
United States
11/14/2012 04:12 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
I happen to use a BPA water bottle for re-filling purposes and I trust it as much as I trust any label. I would prefer to drink out of glass, but it isn't always feasible when out in the field, exercising, or such. That said, most plastic hve that triangular numbering system. Supposedly, 1 is best and 7 is worst. However, most "Sparkletts" bottles are a 7 which is a harder plastic. I have queried Crystal Springs as to their plastic bottles' being a "7". Their answer was: that "7" is the hardest plastic avbailable; the most durable; and will not shed BPA unless exposed to "extreme" heat whatever that is.
 Quoting: UseLess RepEATER


I used to work at vons/safeway 7 years ago and I still remember the day some lady came in to yell at the manager because they had pallets of safeway-brand water in pallets to advertise some sale in the middle of a Los Angeles summer. Never again did they put water outside.

I use two bpa-free water bottles that I pretty much use as my only drink vesicles. One is a 5 :( (it's a benderbottle brand), the other is a 2 :) (camelback brand). Looks like I need to get another camelback bottle!
UseLess RepEATER
Those who know the least obey the best: G.F.

User ID: 24466426
United States
11/14/2012 04:12 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
i have never had the flu shot and the last time i had flu (and i mean proper flu where you are incapacitated) was THIRTY YEARS AGO

same with my kids, no vaccine - never had flu as yet (12 and 17 y/o)

same with their dad, one case of genuine flu maybe 30 years ago



on the other hand i know several people who regularly get it as a requirement by their workplace (nurses/teachers) and they are 'always' ill


so, are all these jab-receipients hypochondriac drama queens? or is the jab useless or worse than useless?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27667491


The thing about the influenza virus is that it mutates so quickly, multiple strands can attack during any one season. While the flu shot protects you against the strands that are in it, it doesn't protect you against all strands.

You probably have good hygiene and it sounds like you're not around sick people often. Nurses and teachers are more susceptible to catching things like the flu because they work stressful jobs and their patients/students bring in the virus. Nurses get close to their patients and they breath the same air (like face to face sometimes). Teachers take home and grade the papers that their students touched, sneezed, and coughed on. And you can't emphasize the stress factor enough.

flu vaccine is probably the one you're ok to skip. IMO it's not necessary. But I wouldn't skip a hepatitis/tetanus/etc vaccine.

If you get bit by a rabid dog, you're telling me you wouldn't get vaccinated against rabbies?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2497414


GeMerck Vaccine Expert tells Truth about Vaccine Dangers

Last Edited by UseLessRepEATER on 11/14/2012 04:13 AM
Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
~U.R.~

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27667491
United Kingdom
11/14/2012 04:15 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
i have never had the flu shot and the last time i had flu (and i mean proper flu where you are incapacitated) was THIRTY YEARS AGO

same with my kids, no vaccine - never had flu as yet (12 and 17 y/o)

same with their dad, one case of genuine flu maybe 30 years ago



on the other hand i know several people who regularly get it as a requirement by their workplace (nurses/teachers) and they are 'always' ill


so, are all these jab-receipients hypochondriac drama queens? or is the jab useless or worse than useless?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27667491


The thing about the influenza virus is that it mutates so quickly, multiple strands can attack during any one season. While the flu shot protects you against the strands that are in it, it doesn't protect you against all strands.

You probably have good hygiene and it sounds like you're not around sick people often. Nurses and teachers are more susceptible to catching things like the flu because they work stressful jobs and their patients/students bring in the virus. Nurses get close to their patients and they breath the same air (like face to face sometimes). Teachers take home and grade the papers that their students touched, sneezed, and coughed on. And you can't emphasize the stress factor enough.

flu vaccine is probably the one you're ok to skip. IMO it's not necessary. But I wouldn't skip a hepatitis/tetanus/etc vaccine.

If you get bit by a rabid dog, you're telling me you wouldn't get vaccinated against rabbies?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2497414

oh im not particularly anti-jab per se. i have my suspicions about many of them, but i think some of them have clearly done mankind a lot of good. im just questioning the flu jab

im super stressed too, many people are. i have plenty of contact with the public and also via my kids

as for hygiene, youd think that teachers and nurses would be on the ball, and there are sanitising hand gels all over these public buildings, esp hospitals -(having said that, hospitals kill 1000s of otherwise relatively healthy people every year, but thats another story)

wash hands regularly, keep your hands off your face is the best advice ever. not many cases of flu are passed on via airborne droplets

at best, flu vaccinations seems pretty ineffective. at worst, it doesnt protect the truly vulnerable and may even give people a false sense of security, making them more lax in the hygiene dept
UseLess RepEATER
Those who know the least obey the best: G.F.

User ID: 24466426
United States
11/14/2012 04:19 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
i have never had the flu shot and the last time i had flu (and i mean proper flu where you are incapacitated) was THIRTY YEARS AGO

same with my kids, no vaccine - never had flu as yet (12 and 17 y/o)

same with their dad, one case of genuine flu maybe 30 years ago



on the other hand i know several people who regularly get it as a requirement by their workplace (nurses/teachers) and they are 'always' ill


so, are all these jab-receipients hypochondriac drama queens? or is the jab useless or worse than useless?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27667491


The thing about the influenza virus is that it mutates so quickly, multiple strands can attack during any one season. While the flu shot protects you against the strands that are in it, it doesn't protect you against all strands.

You probably have good hygiene and it sounds like you're not around sick people often. Nurses and teachers are more susceptible to catching things like the flu because they work stressful jobs and their patients/students bring in the virus. Nurses get close to their patients and they breath the same air (like face to face sometimes). Teachers take home and grade the papers that their students touched, sneezed, and coughed on. And you can't emphasize the stress factor enough.

flu vaccine is probably the one you're ok to skip. IMO it's not necessary. But I wouldn't skip a hepatitis/tetanus/etc vaccine.

If you get bit by a rabid dog, you're telling me you wouldn't get vaccinated against rabbies?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2497414

oh im not particularly anti-jab per se. i have my suspicions about many of them, but i think some of them have clearly done mankind a lot of good. im just questioning the flu jab

im super stressed too, many people are. i have plenty of contact with the public and also via my kids

as for hygiene, youd think that teachers and nurses would be on the ball, and there are sanitising hand gels all over these public buildings, esp hospitals -(having said that, hospitals kill 1000s of otherwise relatively healthy people every year, but thats another story)

wash hands regularly, keep your hands off your face is the best advice ever. not many cases of flu are passed on via airborne droplets

at best, flu vaccinations seems pretty ineffective. at worst, it doesnt protect the truly vulnerable and may even give people a false sense of security, making them more lax in the hygiene dept
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27667491


Not to mention the iatrogenic, untoward side effects caused by the contiminants contained in the vaccines which is the real agenda: to create greater dependency (better customers) from vaccine injured individuals on the medical/big pharma system.
Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
~U.R.~

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~
MzTreeChick

User ID: 27008450
Australia
11/14/2012 04:20 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
thank you ac414, most of us are not asking for vax to be completely banned BUT they still have alot of work to do to make them actually 'safe for human use' if that is even possible.

AND I'm happy for anyone to respond to my info, again that is my point, more info the better for all.




hf rockon
* Eat recycled food, it's good for the environment and O.K for you. (Judge Dredd)
UseLess RepEATER
Those who know the least obey the best: G.F.

User ID: 24466426
United States
11/14/2012 04:21 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
thank you ac414, most of us are not asking for vax to be completely banned BUT they still have alot of work to do to make them actually 'safe for human use' if that is even possible.

AND I'm happy for anyone to respond to my info, again that is my point, more info the better for all.




hf rockon
 Quoting: MzTreeChick


So sorry to hear of your vaccine injured child and glad you have awakened to this crime against humanity.

hf
Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
~U.R.~

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~
geminilion

User ID: 12895036
United States
11/14/2012 04:22 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
Great thread! My Dr. is always bugging me this time of year to take the flu shot.
..."The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you choose, what you think, and what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny ... it is the light that guides your way."
Heraclitus
tg1
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11/14/2012 04:23 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
On my way out. I did not get to read your whole summation. (srry)

I did skim, and gathered that you are against vaccines. Fine! Just remember that it is easy to refuse vaccinations within a populace that is vaccinated! In other words..you are not going to contract smallpox, because we eradicated the disease through vaccination. The "devil" is in the details! Millions..did you catch that? MILLIONS!!!!! died from SMALLPOX! I chose to help the CDC develop a new smallpox vaccine in 2001-2003, as a "guinnea pig". Why? Because it helped our countrty develop a NEW Smallpox vaccine. By the way..you are welcome..I had to stay away from others for weeks...and had to cover the injection site as well..(for several weeks). Should there be a biological attack upon the U.S, you will have a vaccine avalable to for you as well as your family. YOU SAY THANKS HERE:...........................

anyway!

you are welcome!

Remember that the Military and Health Care Professionals, have a dream and a longing to take care of you guys! We love you!

Tom
UseLess RepEATER
Those who know the least obey the best: G.F.

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11/14/2012 04:24 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
Great thread! My Dr. is always bugging me this time of year to take the flu shot.
 Quoting: geminilion


Hope you are not taking his advice; and my advice (not solicited I know) is to stay away form allopathic doctors unless there is an acute condition that arises, or god forbid, some type of trauma.
Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
~U.R.~

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~
MzTreeChick

User ID: 27008450
Australia
11/14/2012 04:36 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
thank you ac414, most of us are not asking for vax to be completely banned BUT they still have alot of work to do to make them actually 'safe for human use' if that is even possible.

AND I'm happy for anyone to respond to my info, again that is my point, more info the better for all.




hf rockon
 Quoting: MzTreeChick


So sorry to hear of your vaccine injured child and glad you have awakened to this crime against humanity.

hf
 Quoting: UseLess RepEATER


Thank you U.R, what sux is that 13yrs ago we heard about possible autism link and hubby & I were actually questioning the DR about the MMR & Autism, he jabbed our daughter and told us it was just a myth and there was nothing to worry about!

As far as vaccine injuries go, we got off lightly with High functioning autism, things could have been alot worse, believe me it has been bad, horrible, a nightmare but we have been so blessed with our daughter.

On a side note: If they brought out an injection that reverses the effects of autism WE WOULD NOT TAKE IT!



hf rockon
* Eat recycled food, it's good for the environment and O.K for you. (Judge Dredd)
MzTreeChick

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11/14/2012 04:40 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
Great thread! My Dr. is always bugging me this time of year to take the flu shot.
 Quoting: geminilion


Take some rat poison with you and tell him if he takes yours you'll take his.


5a
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Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 04:41 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
Just remember that it is easy to refuse vaccinations within a populace that is vaccinated! In other words..you are not going to contract smallpox, because we eradicated the disease through vaccination.
 Quoting: tg1 27656097


This is called Herd Immunity
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Basically, if everyone around you has been vaccinated against a certain disease, you're unlikely to contract that disease ever in your lifetime even if you were not vaccinated against it because it's unlikely that you'd come into contact with a contagious person.

That said- I think a lot of non-science-minded people are misguided when it comes to medicine. Maybe not in this thread, but I see it a lot when people talk about cancer. Things like chemotherapy/hormone therapy/radiation do not guarantee that you'll go into remission or that you will stay in remission. They are tools that improve your chance of a positive outcome.

In the case of the flu vaccine. look at this quote ( [link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"The effectiveness of influenza vaccine given to mothers during pregnancy in preventing hospitalization among their infants, adjusted for potential confounders, was 91.5%."

The article talks states that infants less than 12mo old are at high risk of being hospitalized with the flu, but since vaccines are not approved for infants younger than 6mo, their mothers should get flu vaccines so that they'll pass on their antibodies to their children through their milk. Although that quote does say that it's 91.5% effective in preventing hospitalization in these infants, it does NOT say that the vaccine is 91.5% effective in preventing the disease, only 91.5% effective in preventing hospitalization (meaning that the mothers' vaccine is 91.5% effective in reducing the severity of the disease in the infant). In addition, there is an 8.5% chance that the vaccine will be ineffective.

It's easy to misread a scientific article's findings. When you read a study, you can only take it at face value, as that's the only thing they've proven. If you try to draw other conclusions, you do so at your own peril, as that has not been proven by the study. In the case above, it would be easy to say that the study proved that vaccinating the mother is an effective way of immunizing her child 91.5% of the time, which is NOT what the article is stating. A lot of people have a difficult time making that distinction.
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11/14/2012 04:41 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
[link to preventdisease.com]

Since the flu pandemic was declared, there have been several so-called "vaccine experts" coming out of the wood work attempting to justify the effectiveness of vaccines. All of them parrot the same ridiculous historical and pseudoscientific perspectives of vaccinations which are easily squelched with the following 9 questions.

Claim: The study of vaccines, their historical record of achievements, effectiveness, safety and mechanism in humans are well understood and proven in scientific and medical circles.

Fact: The claim is completely false.

1. What to ask: Could you please provide one double-blind, placebo-controlled study that can prove the safety and effectiveness of vaccines?

2. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific evidence on ANY study which can confirm the long-term safety and effectiveness of vaccines?

3. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific evidence which can prove that disease reduction in any part of the world, at any point in history was attributable to inoculation of populations?

4. What to ask: Could you please explain how the safety and mechanism of vaccines in the human body are scientifically proven if their pharmacokinetics (the study of bodily absorption, distribution, metabolism and excretion of ingredients) are never examined
or analyzed in any vaccine study?

One of the most critical elements which defines the toxicity potential of any vaccine are its pharmacokinetic properties. Drug companies and health agencies refuse to consider the study, analysis or evaluation of the pharmacokinetic properties of any vaccine.

There is not one double-blind, placebo-controlled study in the history of vaccine development that has ever proven their safety, effectiveness or achievements (unless those achievements have underlined their damage to human health).

There are also no controlled studies completed in any country which have objectively proven that vaccines have had any direct or consequential effect on the reduction of any type of disease in any
part of the world.

Every single study that has ever attempted to validate the safety and effectiveness of vaccines has conclusively established carcinogenic, mutagenic, neurotoxic or fertility impairments, but they won't address those.

[snip]
 Quoting: mopar28m


It's quite sad but true. Technology has changed and government vaccination is still top of the list when there are other methods available with not even half the side affects, cheaper and faster to manufacture, and easier to give out. The reason why vaccination is still being done is because the government would have to admit that it has been a huge failure.
tg1
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11/14/2012 04:42 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
Great thread! My Dr. is always bugging me this time of year to take the flu shot.
 Quoting: geminilion


Hope you are not taking his advice; and my advice (not solicited I know) is to stay away form allopathic doctors unless there is an acute condition that arises, or god forbid, some type of trauma.
 Quoting: UseLess RepEATER


I do not take stupid piddly flue inj either.

half the time the CDC misses the strain and then it is waste.

If you are 10 to 50 yrs old and have a healthy immune system. I was going to say skip it! I can not offer any medical advice on this forum however. People over the age of 50 may want to consider an influenza vaccination, as well as a pneumonia vaccination. I would suggest that all patients have a primary care physician (PCP), that they trust WITH THEIR LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!

Talk over the benefits and negative consequenses with them during a consultation. "Consultation"! consult is a 1 hr block1. when you cal to make the damn appointment tell them you want a con sult! 1 hr. Make sure to discuss with the dr and any other prescribers that have handled you, ie the PA(physician assistant) that you keep seeing to refill your meds behind the sceens!!!! Make sure that you have consolidated all of your medical rcords to your PCP, and then go getg FIXED!!!!!comprehende!

Ranting snd raving! for pt's sake! Now where in the hell ..........rofl
UseLess RepEATER
Those who know the least obey the best: G.F.

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11/14/2012 04:43 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
So happy to hear that you and your's have gotten off relatively easily, though I certainly am not minimizing the challenges you have faced. Had I not have awoken to the medical tyranny prior to my first born (not til I was 41), she certainly would have received the whole gamut of vaccs. My hesitance to become a father, actually paid off, though that is purely happenstance. Had I been in my 30's and fathered my first born, w/o a doubt, I would be dealing with similar challenges as do many parents with vacc. injured children.

hf

Last Edited by UseLessRepEATER on 11/14/2012 04:59 AM
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
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11/14/2012 04:50 AM
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11/14/2012 04:59 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
The erradication of most infectious diseases in the late 1800's to early 1900's is attributed to good sanitary and clean running water, almost a decade before any vaccines were even used let alone mandated.
UseLess RepEATER
Those who know the least obey the best: G.F.

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11/14/2012 05:01 AM

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The erradication of most infectious diseases in the late 1800's to early 1900's is attributed to good sanitary and clean running water, almost a decade before any vaccines were even used let alone mandated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27700137


Very astute observation which is seldom mentioned.
Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
~U.R.~

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 05:02 AM
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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
Hope you are not taking his advice; and my advice (not solicited I know) is to stay away form allopathic doctors unless there is an acute condition that arises, or god forbid, some type of trauma.
 Quoting: UseLess RepEATER


I am attempting to become an MD, but it looks like I won't be successful this year (not grades, not test scores... I can elaborate if you really want to know. I am sure you will be surprised at the reason).

TBH, I thought about going into osteopathic medicine (easier to get into), but I decided that I have worked too hard to take the easy way out. Plus I am vain and want to earn the title "DOCTOR."

Having said that, you would be surprised how much the two careers paths have become alike. Allopathic doctors have seen the value of traditional osteopathic medicine concepts like diet, herbal treatments, quality of life, etc etc. At the same time, osteopathic doctors are now often found working in the same practice as allopathic doctors, and they do the same treatments, even surgery, chemotherapy, etc. IMO it has to do with the shortage of doctors that's currently going on (baby boomers are retiring, number of total medical seats has not increased in a while in the US, so only a limited number of allopathic doctors graduate, so the increased demand has created opportunities for osteopathic doctors).

To give you an example, I shadowed a very prominent breast cancer oncologist (I think he was part of the team that developed tamoxifen (widely used chemotherapeutic agent) a long time ago). Earlier this year he was leading a study to see if a diet containing soy beans could be shown to reduce the risk of developing a new breast cancer in the 2nd breast of breast cancer patients.

In addition, there is a movement for primary care doctors to be leaders in low income communities, so they can advice patients in things outside of medicine so that they can help patients improve on their social determinants of wealth. IE if a doctor sees a patient with signs of heroine addiction, they should refer them to rehab centers because being addicted to heroine is bad for your health in general, plus you're at a higher risk of AIDS, stuff like that.

Those two are two pretty osteopathic concepts!

UseLess RepEATER- I hope you're still awake and in this thread to read this. You're doing a yourself a disservice by avoiding your primary care physician. You should have periodic check-ups to make sure everything is ok. If you ignore something that's out of the ordinary, it can end up becoming a lot worse down the road! plus you want to make sure your hormone levels, bp, and things like that are in order.
UseLess RepEATER
Those who know the least obey the best: G.F.

User ID: 24466426
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11/14/2012 05:10 AM

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Re: 9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims
Hope you are not taking his advice; and my advice (not solicited I know) is to stay away form allopathic doctors unless there is an acute condition that arises, or god forbid, some type of trauma.
 Quoting: UseLess RepEATER


I am attempting to become an MD, but it looks like I won't be successful this year (not grades, not test scores... I can elaborate if you really want to know. I am sure you will be surprised at the reason).

TBH, I thought about going into osteopathic medicine (easier to get into), but I decided that I have worked too hard to take the easy way out. Plus I am vain and want to earn the title "DOCTOR."

Having said that, you would be surprised how much the two careers paths have become alike. Allopathic doctors have seen the value of traditional osteopathic medicine concepts like diet, herbal treatments, quality of life, etc etc. At the same time, osteopathic doctors are now often found working in the same practice as allopathic doctors, and they do the same treatments, even surgery, chemotherapy, etc. IMO it has to do with the shortage of doctors that's currently going on (baby boomers are retiring, number of total medical seats has not increased in a while in the US, so only a limited number of allopathic doctors graduate, so the increased demand has created opportunities for osteopathic doctors).

To give you an example, I shadowed a very prominent breast cancer oncologist (I think he was part of the team that developed tamoxifen (widely used chemotherapeutic agent) a long time ago). Earlier this year he was leading a study to see if a diet containing soy beans could be shown to reduce the risk of developing a new breast cancer in the 2nd breast of breast cancer patients.

In addition, there is a movement for primary care doctors to be leaders in low income communities, so they can advice patients in things outside of medicine so that they can help patients improve on their social determinants of wealth. IE if a doctor sees a patient with signs of heroine addiction, they should refer them to rehab centers because being addicted to heroine is bad for your health in general, plus you're at a higher risk of AIDS, stuff like that.

Those two are two pretty osteopathic concepts!

UseLess RepEATER- I hope you're still awake and in this thread to read this. You're doing a yourself a disservice by avoiding your primary care physician. You should have periodic check-ups to make sure everything is ok. If you ignore something that's out of the ordinary, it can end up becoming a lot worse down the road! plus you want to make sure your hormone levels, bp, and things like that are in order.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2497414


Still here AC and I get annual check-ups due to my occupation. That said, I don't always subscribe to the medical advice I am given, but often have to kowtow to same to maintain my position. I am not totally sour to "medicine" though I am ever-skeptical as it pertains to: hyperlipidemia; thyroid levels, PSA, etc.

As to dentistry, I just about always get into heated discussions with the D/H's regarding fluoride and its toxicity. They claim it upholds dental health which always makes me laugh.
Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
~U.R.~

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~

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