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"Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire

 
Miggy

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11/15/2012 08:15 AM

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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
Bibi have to land one of his drones first.

LOL

ohyeah
 Quoting: Limpan


You're a nut, Limpan. A silly, little nut.

chuckle
Ashton's succulent Volvo
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11/15/2012 08:15 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
Subzero86,

I tried to explain this to you before. Each intercept may cost 30,000-40,000 US dollars, but it's a BARGAIN when you consider

1) Lives & property saved (imagine if a rocket were to hit a CEO of Intel-Israel division and also kill his daughter -- you may have an international scandal on your hands and all kinds of lawsuits)

2) Saves huge costs in medical care & rescue services avoid for the dead, dying as well as serious non-fatal injuries from shrapnel. Easily in millions of dollars when counted surgery, ICU costs + long-term rehab & medication (plus, again, potential lawsuits against Israeli government)

3) The prestige of Israeli military industry, the Iron Dome project in particular. Remember, Iron Dome is very young, developed in record short period of time just over 2 years. It needs battle-testing & modification. For example: the 1st battery was first used in combat in April 2011. The 5th battery has just gone on-line a few weeks ago. Only 2 years apart between them, but in terms of technological capability, the 5th battery is YEARS ahead of the 1st one, in radar, in software, in the Tamir interceptor that can now even intercept larger Iranian rockets like Fajr-5 and Zelzal (remember, Iron Dome was originally only supposed to deal with much smaller mortar, homemade Qassam & Grad).

4) Additional US aid has pretty much paid for most of Iron Dome. So the "real" price Israel pays for Intercept is not 35,000 but more like 5,000 dollars. The rest comes out of the military aid.

5) Once Iron Dome version 2.0 is battle tested against bigger rockets & salvos.... South Korea, Singapur, Colombia and of course US would LOVE to buy it --- so in the end, Israel might actually make PROFIT from Iron Dome.

6) Iron Dome gives Israeli government flexibility to be patient and PREVENTS large-scale operations like Castlead. Considering that between March 2011 and now there have been whopping 6-7 seperate escalations by the Gaza jihadists, with literally 1,000 total rockets fired at Israel.... you potentially are talking about more than 1 Castlead in that time span.

And remember, Castlead alone cost 2 billion dollars in operations costs & paralyzed economy in the South. And of course it led to the libelous Goldstone Report & gave pretext to that cunt Erdogan to severe ties with Israel. So that too carries a big price tag in the longer-run.

Now multiply that by several Castlead-type operations.

You're talking billions of dollars... that Iron Dome potentially saved. To quote Donald Trump, it's "OOOJE".

7) And its experience is proving invaluable as far as Israel's new missile defense system, David's Sling, is concerned. Orinally, Israel was going to RUSH David's Sling or Magic Wand as it's also known in time for 2012. The version would have been far from optimal, very skeletal. But since Iron Dome 2.0 version has shown potential during testing, Israel probably made a decision that they will take their sweet time with Magic Wand and when it's finished in 2014, it will be super-advanced. Win-win situation.

Sorry, I am tired, but something along those lines, Subzero86.
 Quoting: Ashton's succulent Volvo 2104267



Thank you for your input, much appreciated ! thumbs
 Quoting: subzero86


You're welcome.

It's amazing how much disinfo and laziness you read on the Interwebz, especially when it concerns Israel.

I just try to apply common sense to things that are open-source knowledge (I am not privy to any classified information).

Of course Iron Dome was not cheap early on in deployment, but what's the alternative? Nothing? As I described, it would be FAR MORE COSTLY to not have protection.

Laser? Yes, but as the joint US-Israeli project "Nautilus" showed, laser-based intercept technology is not going to be mature or cost-effective before 2020 -- if then!

And the thing about that laser system... yes, technically each intercept is only 3,000 dollars, BUT consider this:

1) the new development of Nautilus would cost BILLIONS of dollars with NO promises of success. Israel can't afford that even with American financial participation!

2) To get comparable coverage to Iron Dome, Israel would need at least 20 possibly as many as 50 laser batteries. More insane costs!

3) Unlike the mobile Iron Dome, laser would be stationary (hence another need for more batteries)

4) The chemical essential for Nautilus-like laser defense, is both very expensive AND very toxic to the environment.

5) Weather. Iron Dome can work in bad weather, but old generation of Lasers were known to be lose up to 90% of their effectiveness in heavy clouds and rain! Israel can't even begin to afford that!

So you see, the whole Internet fan-boy "ooh, Lasers are teh shizzle; Israel is so stupid!!!" is just more bullcrap.

Iron Dome is not perfect, it was never designed to replace the OFFENSIVE capabilities & doctrine.... but it's a very nifty system nonetheless.
 Quoting: ASV 2104267


Ntw, Subzero86, there is another thing you have to keep in mind re: Iron Dome

not only does it have a "modular" design which allows for easier, quicker future upgrade-cycles & add-ons (i.e. not wasting billion dollars and years on developing a whole new modified system each time that the big boys at Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman or Raytheon could afford, but Israel simply cannot)

but Iron Dome was designed to be inter-operable part of multi-tier defense layout, that includes or will include:

*Iron Dome 2.0
*Magic Wand (2014)
*Arrow (slow phase-out)
*Patriot-AC
*Arrow 2
*Arrow 3
(2015)
*Barak-8 (naval)
*Trophy (tank)
*Iron Fist (tank)

And again, Israel needs at least 10-12 Iron Domes, preferrably 15 to cope with Hezbollah and HAMAS together.

So it's very much work in progress. If Israel had the kind of free, easy massive-oil resources of KSA or Qatar or Norway, they'd be much futher along.

But hey, better late than never, eh?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22321996
Netherlands
11/15/2012 08:16 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
4 rockets intercepted over Sderot
(15:11 , 11.15.12)
3 injured by mortar shell in Eshkol
(15:01 , 11.15.12)
Rockets explode in Shaar Hanegev, Ashkelon
(14:59 , 11.15.12)
Anonymous Coward
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United States
11/15/2012 08:16 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
There is no peaceful solution to the Arab/Israeli 'Conflict'. These people are always going to be at each other's throats.

I understand how Jews suffered in WW2 [as did many other people], but the founders of Israel had no right to steal Palestinian land back in the late 40s. Using biblical references from 2000+ years ago as your right to take [steal] land is BS. Imagine if everybody in the world started this shit, making demands for land their ancestors thousands of years ago may have occupied. I'm not saying the radical Muslims are any better, neither are radical Christians. Ultra conservative Jews, Muslims, Christians cause A LOT of violence and bullshit in the world with their fantasies derived from a series of writing, written by mortal men thousands of years ago.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27677064


Will the middle east ever grow up/advance enough mentally to join today's world and respect human life?

This is the main problem the rest of the world is forced to be be depressed about on a daily basis.
Miggy

User ID: 1445345
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11/15/2012 08:17 AM

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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
Israel's PM to speech in 10 min

live feed
[link to rt.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27757168


Hope it's in English...
 Quoting: subzero86


Me, too.

Man, can you imagine the security in that place? Where is this podium at?
Simple_Man

User ID: 4282951
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11/15/2012 08:17 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1568629

It's Israel's land and I think they have been quite generous in even allowing the Palestinians to stay there as long as they have
 Quoting: Simple_Man


John steals the ball from Ben. Then John gives James the ball as a present. Is now James the legal owner of the ball?
And is James now generous if the lets Ben play with the ball for an hour?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3984317












Doesn't matter how James got the ball .....James is now the legal owner of the ball and Ben is his angry half brother who is whining cause he doesn't want to coexist with his half brother James ....in fact Ben wants to see James completely annihilated and even tho it isn't ideal ...James is willing to coexist with Ben as long as he behaves himself....

But Ben is a stubborn wild man and he likes to launch rockets into James house so James is left with having to kick bens ass


Naturally is this the explanation of an American. Do not want precedences and give land back to native americans now do we?


What nation are you from ?.....I bet some group of people or country was there before you was too
Newshunter

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11/15/2012 08:17 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
So much for "opening the gates of hell". Israel hurt them real bad in the initial strikes, taking out top leadership and most of Hamas' longer range missiles.


RT @AlArabiya_Eng: #BreakingNews: Hamas requests mediators to urge Israel to stop violence: sources


Thu Nov 15 - 8:15:19 am
JHBorden
User ID: 25935062
Canada
11/15/2012 08:18 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
...


Atheism does not bring peace. With fallen humans, there will always be war.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6543219


I am not atheist,and even if I was,mayby we should give it a shot,these imaginary friends of yours are not doing much good. eh? I am a humanist I believe in humanity and something beyond all our experiences.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25935062


Your faith in humanity is misplaced. There will always be war regardless of religion or form of government.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6543219


Those who put their "faith in humanity" will find out how wrong they are one day! As to "There will always be war...", as long as human forms of government exist, yes, there will be war! However, in the Kingdom of God, there will be peace and war will be no more! For THIS Kingdom I wait. In the meantime, the "god of this world" rules this kingdom, and there will certainly be wars and rumors of wars, which is exactly what is going on, which was foretold by the prophets of the LORD of glory and the apostles of Jesus, The Christ!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27683610


Yeah "they" said mayby someday in the future the people will see through our lies and deciet and renounce all bullshit religion. Nothing like some religipous fear mongering to keep you sheep all herded together.I hate religion because it interferes in my daily life with these wars and I swear most if not all the wars in the world were caused by religious nutz.Not atheist or sane people.
ASV
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11/15/2012 08:18 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
Well, ya know one thing that's always really great? Everytime Israel shoots at some rocketard fucksticks...1,000 brainiac enlightened "Awake" retards swarm in to let everyone know exactly what the truth is...about everything.

Derp ditz dem jew zIoNist banker Rothchides!!! Freakin Akasnotzi Jews!

Just wanted to say thanks, again....
 Quoting: SHR


I LOL'd


:)
Newshunter

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11/15/2012 08:18 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
Some 40 foreign diplomats who were trying to exit #Gaza are blocked by #Hamas that denies their exit to Israel. #pillarofdefense

Thu Nov 15 - 8:18:09 am
Luisport

User ID: 1349519
Portugal
11/15/2012 08:19 AM

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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
So much for "opening the gates of hell". Israel hurt them real bad in the initial strikes, taking out top leadership and most of Hamas' longer range missiles.


RT @AlArabiya_Eng: #BreakingNews: Hamas requests mediators to urge Israel to stop violence: sources


Thu Nov 15 - 8:15:19 am
 Quoting: Newshunter


bump
godzilla85

User ID: 1077295
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11/15/2012 08:19 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
So much for "opening the gates of hell". Israel hurt them real bad in the initial strikes, taking out top leadership and most of Hamas' longer range missiles.


RT @AlArabiya_Eng: #BreakingNews: Hamas requests mediators to urge Israel to stop violence: sources


Thu Nov 15 - 8:15:19 am
 Quoting: Newshunter


yep that sounds like "we are losing badly and need help to make the Israelis stop before we are done for"
DoorBert (OP)

User ID: 870568
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11/15/2012 08:19 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
Ynet: Three #IDF soldiers wounded -- one moderately, two lightly -- by mortar fire from #Gaza, evacuated to hospital by helicopter.
Luisport

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Portugal
11/15/2012 08:19 AM

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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
2 minGaza Youth Break Out‏@GazaYBO

#Breaking::: Despite the explosions everywhere, the children of #Gaza are playing football.. [link to www.youtube.com] …
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27798853
Brazil
11/15/2012 08:20 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
no more links/?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25935062
Canada
11/15/2012 08:20 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
...


Atheism does not bring peace. With fallen humans, there will always be war.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6543219


I am not atheist,and even if I was,mayby we should give it a shot,these imaginary friends of yours are not doing much good. eh? I am a humanist I believe in humanity and something beyond all our experiences.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25935062


Your faith in humanity is misplaced. There will always be war regardless of religion or form of government.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6543219


Those who put their "faith in humanity" will find out how wrong they are one day! As to "There will always be war...", as long as human forms of government exist, yes, there will be war! However, in the Kingdom of God, there will be peace and war will be no more! For THIS Kingdom I wait. In the meantime, the "god of this world" rules this kingdom, and there will certainly be wars and rumors of wars, which is exactly what is going on, which was foretold by the prophets of the LORD of glory and the apostles of Jesus, The Christ!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27683610


You are a hypocrite,I can say the same about religion and their false faith in "men/prophets" No one has tried a non religious way to govern yet,so how the fuck do you think atheism or anything else will not work you closed minded fool.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19706474
United Kingdom
11/15/2012 08:21 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
OFFICIAL : This is what the IDF has written on the leaflets.


[link to twitter.com]


"Take responsibility and stop being present in the vicinity of Hamas and facilities of those other terror organisations that risk your safety."
Miggy

User ID: 1445345
United States
11/15/2012 08:21 AM

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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
no more links/?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27798853


Does anyone have another live feed to Bibi's pres conference? I'm not sure my Gaza Live is working right.

Thanks.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27796422
Romania
11/15/2012 08:21 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
Ntw, Subzero86, there is another thing you have to keep in mind re: Iron Dome

not only does it have a "modular" design which allows for easier, quicker future upgrade-cycles & add-ons (i.e. not wasting billion dollars and years on developing a whole new modified system each time that the big boys at Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman or Raytheon could afford, but Israel simply cannot)

but Iron Dome was designed to be inter-operable part of multi-tier defense layout, that includes or will include:

*Iron Dome 2.0
*Magic Wand (2014)
*Arrow (slow phase-out)
*Patriot-AC
*Arrow 2
*Arrow 3
(2015)
*Barak-8 (naval)
*Trophy (tank)
*Iron Fist (tank)

And again, Israel needs at least 10-12 Iron Domes, preferrably 15 to cope with Hezbollah and HAMAS together.

So it's very much work in progress. If Israel had the kind of free, easy massive-oil resources of KSA or Qatar or Norway, they'd be much futher along.

But hey, better late than never, eh?
 Quoting: Ashton's succulent Volvo 3314232


I swear that if I had a trillion dollars right now I'd donate 999.99 billion to Israel to buy hundreds of Iron Dome batteries and other missile defense systems to assure the safety of it's people !

My blood boils everytime I hear a rocket has fallen on Sderot, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Be'er Sheva, etc. !redface
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2012 08:22 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
Ynet: Three #IDF soldiers wounded -- one moderately, two lightly -- by mortar fire from #Gaza, evacuated to hospital by helicopter.
 Quoting: DoorBert


Correction: Evacuated to beauty salon to have nails redone.
Limpan

User ID: 1474973
Sweden
11/15/2012 08:22 AM

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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
So much for "opening the gates of hell". Israel hurt them real bad in the initial strikes, taking out top leadership and most of Hamas' longer range missiles.


RT @AlArabiya_Eng: #BreakingNews: Hamas requests mediators to urge Israel to stop violence: sources


Thu Nov 15 - 8:15:19 am
 Quoting: Newshunter


We all knew they didn't have so much to offer militarilly.
But the risk of suicide bomber after the conflict once is over, could be a fact.
back to the old days. And nobody wants to go there again.
So like I said. Either you go the whole way ( Israel ), or nothing at all. But maybe as you say, both sides need this situtation somehow????
Atleast Hamas to keep controll over Gaza

hiding

Last Edited by Limpan on 11/15/2012 08:25 AM
Anonymous Coward
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Romania
11/15/2012 08:23 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
no more links/?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27798853


Does anyone have another live feed to Bibi's pres conference? I'm not sure my Gaza Live is working right.

Thanks.
 Quoting: Miggy


It's working Miggy, BiBi is just not there yet ! He's probably having a few RedBulls to be able to stay awake and give a speech...cos I don't think he got any sleep last night !
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6543219
United States
11/15/2012 08:24 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
Ntw, Subzero86, there is another thing you have to keep in mind re: Iron Dome

not only does it have a "modular" design which allows for easier, quicker future upgrade-cycles & add-ons (i.e. not wasting billion dollars and years on developing a whole new modified system each time that the big boys at Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman or Raytheon could afford, but Israel simply cannot)

but Iron Dome was designed to be inter-operable part of multi-tier defense layout, that includes or will include:

*Iron Dome 2.0
*Magic Wand (2014)
*Arrow (slow phase-out)
*Patriot-AC
*Arrow 2
*Arrow 3
(2015)
*Barak-8 (naval)
*Trophy (tank)
*Iron Fist (tank)

And again, Israel needs at least 10-12 Iron Domes, preferrably 15 to cope with Hezbollah and HAMAS together.

So it's very much work in progress. If Israel had the kind of free, easy massive-oil resources of KSA or Qatar or Norway, they'd be much futher along.

But hey, better late than never, eh?
 Quoting: Ashton's succulent Volvo 3314232


I swear that if I had a trillion dollars right now I'd donate 999.99 billion to Israel to buy hundreds of Iron Dome batteries and other missile defense systems to assure the safety of it's people !

My blood boils everytime I hear a rocket has fallen on Sderot, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Be'er Sheva, etc. !redface
 Quoting: subzero86


You're nuts. As I have pointed out, cultural marxism is a weapon against society developed by j e w s. I have no sympathy for these sons of satan.
Newshunter

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11/15/2012 08:24 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
sneaky, very sneaky.

Israeli peace activist: Hamas leader Jabari killed amid talks on truce - Israel News |

"Hours before Hamas strongman Ahmed Jabari was assassinated, he received the draft of a permanent truce agreement with Israel"
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2012 08:24 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
no more links/?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27798853


Does anyone have another live feed to Bibi's pres conference? I'm not sure my Gaza Live is working right.

Thanks.
 Quoting: Miggy


It's working Miggy, BiBi is just not there yet ! He's probably having a few RedBulls to be able to stay awake and give a speech...cos I don't think he got any sleep last night !
 Quoting: subzero86


Live feed here on RT

[link to rt.com]
Can't remember
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11/15/2012 08:25 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
Iran is like: "Oh I will just stay quiet and finish my nuke."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27791678

This. iamwith
Miggy

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11/15/2012 08:26 AM

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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
no more links/?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27798853


Does anyone have another live feed to Bibi's pres conference? I'm not sure my Gaza Live is working right.

Thanks.
 Quoting: Miggy


It's working Miggy, BiBi is just not there yet ! He's probably having a few RedBulls to be able to stay awake and give a speech...cos I don't think he got any sleep last night !
 Quoting: subzero86


Thanks, Sub. I thought I somehow missed it.

And i agree about Bibi.

The weight of the world is on that poor man's shoulders.

There's not a night I don't devote prayer to that man.

I wonder if O is watching in that stupid little war room of his.

Last Edited by Miggy on 11/15/2012 08:26 AM
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2012 08:27 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
Iran is like: "Oh I will just stay quiet and finish my nuke."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27791678

This. iamwith
 Quoting: Can't remember 20580592


That would be the smart thing to do. Without nukes, they are vulnerable to israel.
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2012 08:27 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
no more links/?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27798853


Does anyone have another live feed to Bibi's pres conference? I'm not sure my Gaza Live is working right.

Thanks.
 Quoting: Miggy


[link to rt.com]
BadMoonRising
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11/15/2012 08:27 AM
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Re: "Pillar of Defense (Cloud)" - Israel & Hamas Agree to Gaza Cease Fire
is Bibi always so tardy.

C'mon man - got work to do here.


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